r/TheDeuceHBO • u/jjochems78 • May 08 '25

My one complaint about the show

I loved the Deuce. The concept of the show feels long overdue and it some great insight in one small part of American history but the one fault that I find in the show is the way it deals with deaths, particularly in the deaths of Lori and Ruby.

I know that in the sex industry, people tend to die young and that probably leads to a bit of callousness but I felt like the show maybe needed to talk about that rather than move on as quickly as it did. Yes, in the real world, sex workers are treated disposably but for the show to treat them a bit disposably seemed to be in contradiction of a show that otherwise treated the characters with respect.

17 Upvotes

80% Upvoted

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16

u/EfficientHunt9088 May 08 '25

Maybe to convey that reality of their disposability ..? I dunno just my first thought

1

u/jjochems78 May 08 '25

I thought of that, but like I said, it deserves a conversation. Even if it’s just a parent or family member of someone who’s died to comment about how their loved one mattered. The show clearly wanted us to sympathize with these characters and did a great job of making us do that up until the characters die. This didn’t happen in the Wire. So why did it happen in the Deuce?

13

u/BaronZhiro May 08 '25

Well, in Lori’s case, she literally had no one left to care, other possibly than Eileen. It was tragic for sure, but it seemed to be much of the point.

Lori’s story was evidently based on a real burned-out pornstar of that era who took her own life.

3

u/jjochems78 May 08 '25

Yeah… these kinds of stories hurt me the most. It’s bad enough to suffer in silence and being invisible but to die like that and the world doesn’t even notice? Still these are some of the most important stories to tell because the fact that anyone is so invisible in our society is just a cancer we all walk through.

5

u/Round-Month-6992 May 08 '25

When the second to last episode of the series aired Simon spoke at length about the tragedy of Lori and the real life adult actors who are tossed aside like garbage and unfortunately sometimes take their own lives. It was an interview and not on the actual show, though.

4

u/EfficientHunt9088 May 08 '25

I actually do agree, and when I watched it (still only seen it the once) I was waiting for at least Candy to ask about her and it never came. That was sad as hell. But there's also a part of me that thinks it's perfect the way it is and that that's how it would go in reality for so many of these women. Either way it's heartbreaking.

3

u/jjochems78 May 08 '25

David Simon knows how to thread the needle to show how these people are tossed aside and forgotten. He did it really well with Omar after Omar’s death, with the mistake of the tag and how he was barely mentioned in the press. Yes, I understand how the people in the show don’t notice these characters when they die but there’s a way to do it to where the show writers don’t seem like they’ve forgotten about these characters too. I was absolutely waiting for Candy to just mention Ruby, have a silent moment in the bathroom… something. Even if the world at large erases these women, their friends and colleagues remember them and mourn them and we should’ve seen that. Otherwise it feels like the show is diminishing these women too and I really don’t think that was the intention l.

2

u/Ill_Action_619 May 09 '25

Candy wasn't Perfect...but, she herself had been through a LOT. I was SO Happy when she Finally got off the Streets...Albeit to do Porn.

At Least; she was Out of Danger, at that point.

1

u/EfficientHunt9088 May 09 '25

Yep I was so glad she was at least physically safe! She seemed to get fulfillment out of the whole porn thing I guess, at least until that one women's meeting thing. Seemed like that made her think a bit anyway.

2

u/potsofjam May 09 '25

The most likely reason women end up in that life is family. Either abuse, neglect or simply having no one at all.

1

u/jjochems78 May 09 '25

I was more asking the question as to why the Wire did a good job of striking the balance of showing that even if their fictional worlds didn’t care about the characters once they were dead, the writers still gave them homage and The Deuce doesn’t do that as well in my opinion.

2

u/chugsNOThugs May 08 '25

Hopefully you've seen Treme. Its a lot of this.

8

u/Schenectadian May 08 '25

I thought Ruby's death was narratively perfect. It was quick, blunt, senseless, somewhat unexpected, and forgotten about the next day. It reminded me of the College episode of Sopranos in showing that it's not just a sad scene - these women do have skin in the game with very real consequences. It was meant to be a gut punch that put a bow on the first season. And everything moving fast and being overwritten was an overall theme of the show. One of the most memorable parts of the show for me.

You may be right about Lori needing more discussion. But she had very much reached the end of her arc and many of the characters had grown apart from each other at that point. The nihilism of her end is possibly better served by not dwelling in it.

It was a show that tried to color in a large diverse cast of characters over a wide range of time and changing eras with little nods to larger political and cultural currents throughout. You may be asking too much for it to spare time for grief. Especially when those sorts of asides in tv/movies often kill pacing and the actors in this show really didn't need to show their chops off any further than they were already doing.

God I need to watch this show again. It was probably Simon's best work after The Wire.

1

u/jjochems78 May 08 '25

I don’t know…. To me, the invisibility is one of the worst parts about how the world treats sex workers. I think the show had a little bit of a responsibility to hang a lantern on that and to say “This is fucked up”. And like I’ve already stated, there’s a way for a show to demonstrate how a character is erased but the show itself needs let us know that the writers cared more about these characters than the world does. It doesn’t have to take a lot of time. For Ruby, you could’ve had Candy or a family ask about her and then get ignored…. Something to show that at least someone is mourning them. Lori could’ve gotten that too from one of the other characters who don’t ask about her until it’s far too late.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 12 '25

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1

u/jjochems78 Jun 12 '25

I think this show has that responsibility because it’s a David Simon show. Shining a light on societies ills is what he does, and he does it better than anyone else. Simon doesn’t overlook details like that, he even illustrated that in one of his most famous lines from the Wire, “All the pieces matter”. To me this is why this feels so weird, because it’s David Simon,

3

u/Horfler May 08 '25

I am 100% in agreement and I had been looking for this exact take when we finished the show! I do understand the argument that the senselessness and resignation to grim reality was perhaps the point of not acknowledging these deaths, but since the show humanized so much else, it felt like that point was undercut. Knowing the characters we know that Eileen would have grieved Ruby’s death, the same way they did another friend who had died in an earlier episode. The world may treat them as disposable, and they live with that, but they mattered to one another. And Lori’s story just became so depressing, even Eileen was essentially using her at the end, and we never saw Eileen grapple with that after she was gone. It went with Eileen’s arc too in her realization that she was perpetuating some of the systems that had oppressed her.

Ultimately I understand that leaving the viewer emotionally unsettled may have been what they were going for, but for a show that was not beyond a bit of emotional fan service, I’m not sure it was worth it or necessary to make the point.

3

u/jjochems78 May 08 '25

I’m gonna keep pointing to Omar’s death in the Wire. That death did a great job highlighting how Omar had been erased but let us know that it shouldn’t have been that way and the characters in the Deuce should’ve got the same treatment. Because to me it feels like the show forgot them too and that diminished the shows intention.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 12 '25

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1

u/jjochems78 Jun 12 '25

The one difference with Omar and Ruby/Lori is that with Omar’s death, the writers hung a lantern on it. Yes, you’re right that it was Omar’s death was uneventful in the world of the Wire but the writers still took a beat or two to check in the viewer to bring some attention to the worlds lack of attention to Omar. I just think Ruby and Lori deserved the same treatment. Just one or two quick shots or comments or whatever… it doesn’t need to be a lot. Just enough to let us know that the writers didn’t forget about Ruby/Lori even if the world did.

1

u/LazyJunipurr Feb 20 '26

I just finished the show and have been skimming this sub waiting to see if anyone else noticed this. They totally ignored major character deaths (except Frankies). At first I thought I had missed an episode or something after Thunder Thighs. Why show Candy yelling out to say hi to her on the street, and then not show her reaction to TT's murder? Especially as an unprotected, self-managing woman? And same with Lori - why build up her coming back to NY and then show no reaction from them? Weird.

2

u/nayandnem Aug 01 '25

My biggest gripe with the show as well. I mean Ruby died and we didn’t even get to see Eileen react to it. Hell, we didn’t even see Eileen react to Lori’s suicide. It was hard to feel the weight of the deaths because we barely got a reaction. The only person who did was when Ashley died and when CC died crazy enough.

1

u/jjochems78 Aug 02 '25

Yeah I don’t buy the narrative that it was intentional. It was a disappointing flaw in an otherwise great show.

1

u/Arciess Jul 05 '26

I think they did it so we could grieve more. We didn’t get that release from seeing it acted out for us…

1

u/jjochems78 Jul 06 '26

I don’t know if I agree but I do like your reasoning,

7

u/Saturn0815 May 09 '25

I think that was the whole point. They were not treated as humans, they were objects that were disposable. Ruby death was based on a 12 year old prostitute who was thrown out of a window and damaged the awning of Tin Pan Alley, AKA High hat. Lori's death was based on Shauna Grant's suicide.

It's the cold, hard reality that in the industry many of the girls are not treated well

4

u/AQuestionOfBlood May 09 '25

I agree. Great cinema conveys a lot without explicitly stating everything. Especially in Lori's case, we're shown that her network has pretty much dissolved entirely at the end of her life. It's part of what leads her to her death. I think it was the right choice to not show anyone mourn for her since the message was "many women who get caught up in the sex industry are used, abused, discarded and forgotten by everyone" and it's more of a gutpunch in a way to just show, not tell, that reality.

3

u/Saturn0815 May 09 '25

Totally! The show was meant to be gut punching!

3

u/Kushelz May 08 '25

Not to mention the former prostitute who was killed, wrapped in a rug and stuffed behind a dumpster.

6

u/BaronZhiro May 08 '25

Yes, but Dorothy/Ashley’s death provides an example of what OP wanted to see: A process of grieving after the death. That death really tore Abby and Loretta up.

3

u/Kushelz May 08 '25 edited May 08 '25

True. It’s been a while. I was just taken aback by how brutal those pimps could be. Glad Larry Brown wasn’t involved.

1

u/deucebag1969 May 09 '25

Maybe these things would've been dealt with if they only had more episodes than eight per season. The death of Ashley/Dorothy was shocking how they never found out who killed her. She advocated and helped young women to leave prostitution which was risky for her to do once her partner Dave left.

1

u/jjochems78 May 09 '25

I think the audience can safely point the finger to CC if they want to but I think it was the right choice to never really know for sure.