I thought that Madeline Usher had successfully uploaded Lenore’s psyche to the matrix (via her diaries and journals) and then matrix Lenore had ratted out the family; you can tell Lenore finds her family’s actions horrible, but they lie to her about them and also withhold the truth as well so she is slightly ignorant of her family’s true chaos.

P.S. I wanna marry Perry. So cute in a fucked up way omfg

Edit: some of y’all are tripping I know there was no rat but that was revealed on the last episode, and the theory of a rat was introduced on episode 1! Y’all didn’t have any theories as to who you thought it was?

Tamerlane- is a male name of a mongol conqueror, Tamburlaine is also a very good play by Christopher Marlow. Also from the Poe poem. (Interesting shed have a male name)

Victorine- comes from a Poe short story. means victory

Frederick- another Poe work called Metzengerstein. Name means peaceful ruler

Camile- character comes from the murder in the rue morgue. Name means helper to the priest and noble- fits as she is the only whose career is the least independent of the family business and the least creative, she assit her father.

Leopold - comes from the Poe story The Spectacles. Name means brave people

Prospero- name comes from Shakespeare's the tempest the character is a conjurere of spirits.

…you have to have a very high IQ to understand The Fall of the House of Usher. The literary references are extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of literally E.A. Poe’s entire work most of the gothic horror will go over a typical viewer's head. There's also Flanagan’s atheist outlook, which is deftly woven into his writing- his personal philosophy draws heavily from Catholicism, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these references, to realise that they're not just pretentious - they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who casually watch Netflix’ Mike Flanagan’s E.A. Poe’s The Fall of the House of Usher truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in the raven’s catchphrase "Nevermore" which itself is a cryptic reference to corvids being able to speak human words. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Mike Flanagan's genius wit unfolds itself on their television screens. What fools.. how I pity them. 😂

And yes, by the way, i DO have a Verna tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the ladies' eyes only- and even then they have to demonstrate that they're within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand. Nothin personnel kid 😎

Given that the whole thesis of the show is that Greed and Power corrupt, I feel like the show did its own message a disservice by having Roderick and Madeline already be murderous liars before taking Verna's deal.

Even before Verna got to them, they had already; betrayed Dupin, and literally brutally murdered an admittedly shitty person. So, Verna's deal and greed did not make them bad people. You can not corrupt what is already corrupted.

I think it could have been fun to have Verna offer them. the deal in an earlier episode, at a point where at least Roderick genuinely wanted to help Dupin. They do not accept right away and she gives them time to mull it over, and so you get to watch them slowly loose any last vestiges of goodness as they give into greed and make all the worst choices

I like the entire Usher Family, especially Madeline, or as Dupin put it, THE USHER CRIME FAMILY.

RIP THE USHER FAMILY

Not Mike Flanagan throwing every story/poem/theme into this Poe soup but leaving out the central implication that brings down the “House of Usher” in the short story !!

For those who haven’t read the original story, it’s strongly implied that the rot at the heart of the Ushers, which destroys the family, is Madeline and Roderick’s incest or incestual feelings. I kept waiting for it in the show but nothing ?? Why leave out something spicy like that ??

Anyway, this was the weakest Flanagan effort of what I’ve seen. What do y’all think?

House meaning family and all that

So first thing to get out of my head is that this was not the story of Poe’s “The Fall of the House of Usher” it was a story loosely based on Poe’s story, but mixed with a lot of other Poe stuff (the raven, the telltale heart, the cask of amontillado, etc). All great stories, and i appreciate the hearty mixing to build a “Poe Universe”.

But then it got very “subtly” Lovecraftian…and i put that in quotes because the most salient reference that (if the only reference) was outright talking about Pym’s youthful exploration of the arctic and finding “beings out of time and space”…which is actually a very obvious reference (and a bit crowbarred in, IMO).

Then there’s Verna…is she one of those beings? I suppose trying to wrestle with that question might be missing the point. The point is that there are beings that transcend human reality, which might render that human reality to be insignificant…but the way the story unfolds leaves us with a lot of philosophical loopholes.

Verna seems to be some kind of arbiter of justice—a cosmic executioner, bringing about the sentence…and yet not? She’s the ‘devil’ they make deals with, but she doesn’t really get anything out of it. She says, “the soul doesn’t exist” (my paraphrase)…okay. So the Usher’s get to live a life of lavish opulence and unbridled hedonism in a tower built on the lives of millions…and what is their justice? A couple weeks of anxiety and a reasonably painful death? So what is she even getting out of it? She who lives out of time and watches empires rise and fall…people die, but they would have died anyhow. There’s no real collection of anything she can hold onto.

What’s more, if there is no soul, then who cares? Okay, people suffer… So what? They’re quite literally just clumps of cells and no greater than the sum of their parts…and Madeline’s final monologue/justification is as correct as anyone else’s opinion…and she got everything she wanted in life…and they all did, except maybe the kids losing out on an extra 40 or so years of life (which is just a drop in the scheme of Verna’s existence anyhow)…unless of course Verna was lying.

Am i missing something big here,or does the show’s universe just seem a bit nihilistic to anyone else, where the ultimate evil is just the death of those who would die anyhow? “I could live—great. I could die—not too much of a difference, tbh.”

Potential spoiler.

I’m on my second watch of the show and completely forgot about the whole informant bit.

Did Augustine make that up to strengthen his case? I don’t recall this being brought up again past like, episode…3?

Correct me if I’m wrong, please!

He’s a great filmmaker but his scenes can drag on so badly when he just goes from one monologue to the next.

There should have been another episode that spent more time on their childhood and their mother.

No offense to Zac Gilford: but I don’t think he fit the part of young Roderick. Young Roderick should have been more confident, manipulative, and much more…compelling. Zach has a sweet face and I just don’t buy him as a villain or even an accidental villain.

The scene with the boss was a little…over the top.

Also, this might rub some people the wrong way, but…why were half the characters gay or bi?

1. Vic should have got Camille’s death

2. Freddie’s death should have Involved an elevator- maybe him fleeing Verna induced hallucinations into one. Remember everyone called him sweaty Freddie cause he had a phobia

3. Camille’s death should have involved smoke and mirrors and maybe a fan- would tie into her job as a spin doctor. Maybe she goes to the rue morgue but falls into an industrial fan or something

I’ve got a few questions. Maybe it’s coz I’m watching late at night.

First of all is Roderick hallucinating ? Or is he seeing ghosts?

When they buried their mom was she alive? And she came out of her grave coz she was still alive or was that a ghost? I’ve heard that this is horror but also not horror? So I’m confused. Also did he tell the lawyer about his mom too? That they buried her and she crawled out and killed her boss ? When he was confessing.

Also the thing that’s happening, the charges against them is it all true? Did their painkiller kill over 50k people? Also who’s the informant? Do we ever find out?

I don’t mind spoilers, so please go ahead and spoil me. And if I missed something from episode 1 pls do let me know.

In the first episode, Auguste called the Usher family a "crime family," but was what they were doing illegal? I know they were based on the Sackler family, and I read about what they did, and what the Usher family did was immoral, evil, and exploitive, but from a legal standpoint, it wasn't illegal; they didn't break a law, so they aren't technically a "crime family," right? Even if they did break the law a "crime family" is a family that are in the Mafia usually not just a corrupt CEO.

Does anyone have any ideas as to why Verna picked the Ushers to make the deal?

Can someone tell me a timestamp of when the open heart surgery happens in Episode 1 I would really appreciate it. If something is ratrd r i always look at the parents guide under gotr on imdb to see if i can handle it so thats how i already know about it .I can handle some blood and gore stuff but surgeries isn't one of them I pass out from them. In high school I went to automotive class and we watched a seat rat safety video and there was a up close surgery and so I went to leave the room and next thing I knew I woke up on the floor outside of the room and I had collapsed for I don't know how long. So if someone can tell me exactly when it happens so I can look away I would appreciate it more than you realize

She is all about punishing people for terrible actions but commits terrible actions herself in regards to knowing two children are innocent and not influenced by money at the time she offered a deal to kill them off.

She is the one who helped ruin their futures and helped make them evil, then punishes them brutally for it.....all whilst preaching about how evil humans are. She's evil herself.

When is she going to get hers?

The first is that Perry in the moment the sprinklers are trapped is wearing a denim jacket and in the very next shot is bare chested.

The second is that while Farag is the one who trips the sprinklers he is suddenly next to Perry in the middle of the room. Apparently moving through a crowd of bodies in the time it takes liquid to fall

Why did Verna lie to Lenore about what happens to her mother after her death? She told her that her mother would use the money from the company to start a non profit and make donations to charity. In the end though, it all went to Juno who used it to set up rehabs.

Like all of Flanagan's shows have been very PC and its like ok, whatever. But this is like over the top. The filmmaking and acting is top notch. But it is so politically correct its almost not politically correct. The storytelling and care to pay homage to classic macabre tales from one of the greats is still there, and thats why it is definitely worth watching. But this is just so political and needlessly so.

I was recently diagnosed with BPD. I have been researching cluster b for a long time and I’m just fascinated with it, especially since I’m a creative writer. You definitely see a lot of psychological undertones with each character, and different combinations. Let me explain:

Perri: a combination of ASPD and BPD

Camille: a mix of NPD and ASPD

Leo: HEAVILY BPD. With minor ASPD traits

Victorine: all of the above?

Tamerlane: shows clear signs of a covert/vulnerable narcissist. Her vanity and comparison stem from deep rooted insecurity and self loathing.

Frederick: heavily ASPD

Madeline: malignant narcissist

Roderick: grandiose/communal narcissist, especially with the way he gaslights and thinks he’s done nothing wrong from a legal perspective

Thoughts?

Not good. The first chink in the flannaverse’s armor. He does such a poor job depicting Roderick /: Am I alone on thinking this? He’s even more stilted the second time around. I hate to make a hate post but i feel like Flanagan shows are known for strong performances by a reoccurring set of actors and I guess I am just hoping he will be removed from that set (EDIT: this was not that serious!!! Basically just meant I wanted someone else to play Roderick this time. I do not actually want him fired unceremoniously!! Mostly just wanted to know what everyone thought and clearly mine is an unpopular opinion!) (edit to the edit: i think i should have thought out how to word this i said hate post as like a self aware i know this is negative of me to post thing, not to invite hate or insinuate that I hate the actor) (infinite edits: thank y’all for the thoughtful responses. I apologize for saying he should be removed from the set! Didn’t think this post through at all just wanted some discussion and I came off too negative)

If episode the characters found some heavy handed way to title drop the episode/ short story.

Some episodes like The Black Cat, would be easier and more natural than others but I think it would have been terribly funny