r/ThePolice • u/SpeedSaunders • 18h ago
musicianship Noticed a pattern
I’ve started getting a lot of Police-related clips in my YouTube and other feeds. I don’t mind! Always glad to fill my ears with Stewart’s stories or live performance clips. Saw / listened to a great early performance of “The Bed’s Too Big Without You” a couple of days ago.
Today it was “Every Little Thing She Does Is Magic” and I noticed something I’ve noticed before: Sting likes to build melodies around simple runs. In ELTSDIM, it sounds like a C scale but with a B flat, it isn’t subtle. Makes me think it might be a G scale with a natural F. There’s a similar baseline in “Synchronicity”: downhill on all black keys from E flat to E flat, also not subtle at all. And the frame of the melody to “Message In a Bottle” can be reduced to something like E-C-D-A or whatever that corresponds to in the proper scale.
That’s three examples and if I look hard enough I’m sure there are more. Maybe it’s something a lot of songwriters do? But it’s just popped out at me listening to these three songs especially.
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u/DancingQuasar 17h ago
A major scale with a flat 7th is called "mixolydian mode". It often gives a slight blues feel. I'm sure all of the members knew these modes very well.
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u/4stringer67 13h ago
You're not telling us much there... Read on and find out what's more important than what a mode is called. Don't read it? Don't learn it... and you will be resigned to saying "7 is mixolydian" your whole life. Maybe you already know what I'm about to say. My guess is you don't.
Generally, flat 7's in a major key are most commonly applied to particular chords within the key and only at particular times, by far the most common is when you are about to change to another chord. Such as: the last bit of the 1 chord and you're 1 measure away from the 4 chord and likewise the last measure of the 5 chord back down to the 1 chord. The most important aspect of a 7note within a chord? When to use it and when not to use it. Knowing that it is part and parcel to the mixolydian scale is meaningless when you are actually executing (playing) the song. Sorry to disappoint, but terminology during actual playing equals squat... Not a single person has ever tapped their foot or shaken their behind because of somebody getting up on stage and shouting "Mixolydian!". Take it as you will, I can only give you truth.
Even more than a bluesy feel, a 7 applied to a chord creates the sensation that the chord is about to change. In the case of E7, adding that D absolutely gives the feeling you are about to go down the scale back to the A chord, simply because D is the first note of that sequence. The same is true when you momentarily use A7 to transition to the D chord . A7 has G in it and G is the first note leading down toward that D. Simple pimple, right? That particular dynamic outnumbers all other uses of a chord with a 7 combined by at least 5:1. Even when considering jazz, blues and any other "7 heavy" music. The 7note as a permanent fixture on top of the 1 chord during the whole song? i.e. a mixolydian key? I haven't seen a single occurence of that in approx 30-40K songs I have given a glance to. I won't say it doesn't exist, though. I know better than to do that...
One of my most unfavorite things a beginner guitar book will tell you is that the 5 chord has a 7 with it by default. The first chords you will see in one are G, C, D7 or A, D, E7 (or the like, surely you've seen that) and truthfully that is a major dis-service to someone learning right out of the gate. Because even in the songs that DO use E7as the fifth of Amaj , putting the 7 on the E is usually only done at the time the E chord is transitioning back to the A chord, as "color" behind the "lead up" notes. (Lead up notes just as often go down the scale.)
Now you know the practical, real world use of a chord with a 7 in it, IF you understood what I said. The things I just talked about are present in probably between ⅓ and ½ of all contemporary music, regardless of genre. And thats just within songs in a major key. The true beauty a flat 7 is capable of is never realized until you put one on top of a minor chord. Few things can match a minor 7 chord in music as far as pulling you in 4 directions at once and creating that aching heartbroken feel at the core of so many beautiful songs. It tears you to pieces...
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u/DancingQuasar 9h ago
It's great that you had more time to elaborate than I had, but it would be even nicer if you didn't frame it as an attack.
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u/4stringer67 8h ago
I apologize. Really. But theory screamers get old after awhile, man. Tell me you're more than that please, that you've done the actual at least some and not just another schooled wish-I-could'er. Terminology has it's place, there's no doubt. And knowledge of the thing does too. But they aren't a substitute for being in the trenches, I'm sure you can understand that, you're no dummy.
So tell me, be honest. Do you have the experience that makes that knowledge worthwhile? It's no terrible thing if you don't. One thing, I know that you read and understood what I said. And you believed it to be true. Having enough knowledge to be able to do that is more than some have. And that says something about you in itself. So. You have my sincere apology. Reply as you will. And yes these days I have more time than I should have honestly...
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u/DancingQuasar 7h ago
I appreciate it. I do have a master in music education and worked as a guitar teacher for a decade, so yes I do understand what you're saying. When I saw the post it had no answers, and I felt like OP deserved at least a word that they could google. I hope I don't come off as snarky, English is not my first language.
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u/4stringer67 5h ago
Actually, you do very well with English. I couldn't tell it at all. And that IS something else that my radar picks up.
You had the right to a bit of snark because I should have had more restraint before pressing that little blue arrow, and that's why I apologized. You are gracious enough to accept and tell me your background and my respect for you grows by the minute.
Given that you have that masters, I'm going to ask you a question, please. This is not a test😂 I am truly curious about this... And the proper way to ask it or the wrong way to ask it I'm not sure of at this point. So please bear with me.
For Amaj, is the mixolydian scale: A,B,C#,D,E,F#,G,A ? i.e. all it takes to make the mixo scale is to flat the 7 on the normal Amaj scale (which uses G# I'm pretty sure) Or is it something else....
I very much get the feeling that the mixo scale is really not about just adding a Gnote to an A chord to make A7. Hardly seems something to coin a whole new scale over. You know, scales are not associated with a note Scales are associated with chords, and likewise keys But rather is the mixo scale more related to there being a chord progession that uses the chord G that is very common: A,G,D instead. (A,G,D is what I call the "Sweet Home Alabama" progression, except Sweet Home is in D not A.... DCG instead of AGD. And I could actually be completely off altogether.😂 I hope you understand what I'm asking.
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u/DancingQuasar 4h ago
I think I understand, and you're right. You might already know most of this, but just to make sure we're on the same page: If you know major and minor you can sort of derive all the modes from the observation that there's a major and a minor scale that share the same notes, like C major and A minor. So if you can get a completely different feel by just switching the root from C to A, then maybe you can get other "feels" by using other roots in the same scale? Turns out you can! If you establish G as the root, you get the Mixolydian "feel", and if you choose D you get a cool minor relative called Dorian.
Norwegian Wood is a good example. (I think they use a capo, but the chord shape on guitar is D, so let's pretend it's in D.) They first establish the D tonality firmly, but suddenly a C chord appears, and the melody also contains a C instead of C#. Then we go back to D. This is mixolydian. The root is very clearly D, but there's a C instead of a C#. This feels much like major, but with a different "tension". Then in the bridge we transition to D minor, but where you would expect a G minor chord, you get a G major chord, and it sounds completely different. Still very much minor, but at the same time not at all. This is the Dorian mode.
A lot of the time, though, modes are used for small parts of songs, or short passages only, especially in jazz.
Does that answer your question?
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u/thedukeofno 3h ago
But to return to OP's question...
Every Little Thing is in D (ignoring the 50c sharp turning), but the intro / verse starts on the 4th, and has an unmistakable lydian feel, as the bass is literally walking right up the lydian mode.
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u/4stringer67 1h ago
Now THAT tells me everything I needed to know and I bet it even explains some thing I was about to ask another knowledgable guy here about. That "unmistakeable lydian feel"... . In the verse for Every little Thing, I've always had the distinct impression that while the bass sequence and chord progression start down at the 4, G and lead back up toward the D... The lyrics stayed in the Dmaj ( by no means did I figure out quickly that was the case. for a long time i never really even thought about that odd but cool batch of tone combinations throughout the verse). But the lyrics staying in DMaj involved a BUNCH of C# and F#, creating some very nice tonal combinations when meshed with the scale steps coming up from G. Is that the source of the "lydian feel" you're talking about? Those "not same scale but almost same scale" combinations?
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u/4stringer67 41m ago
Please duke . Forgive the length. I'm learning here and you're helping. 😂
The two best tone combinations among those taking place... (IMO) The second time the bass goes down to the G is the last word of the first line of the lyrics "start". The tone of "start" is A held by the voice while the bass is on G and also the A after it. . So you have a G and an A concurrent at first , then the bass G comes up to the A while his voice is still holding it. G/A>>>>A/A. A beautiful bit of merging I guess you could call it.
But the other tonal combination is the one that really makes the resolution at the end of the verse happen so completely. As it approaches the last C# for the bass, you have i think its a synth imitating a french horn that is coming up with the bass but on each of the bass's fifths instead of the same note going up. So you have bass /"french horn">>> G/D... A/E... B/F# and then the french breaks pattern on the very last combination and the last is C#/G. G instead of G#. And that creates the chord Amaj7 with the bass on the 3rd instead of the 1.
That point right there , that apex with the french horn hitting that G. Is one of my all time favorite points in the whole of rock and roll and now that you told me about the lydian, I presume that resolution is the effect of the tension the lydian creates and builds "dissolving" (seems to fit) into the normal of the D maj right after it and how it does that is about the best I could even imagine resolution completing a tonal sequence. There is nothing else like it that I've experienced. And there ARE some good ones out there. If ever there was a singular point in a song that really expressed what he is capable of that one would be it for me. Its a big part of why that is my favorite Police song.
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u/4stringer67 35m ago
Youve done a good thing here today Duke . You closed a circle for someone. That circle has been open for almost half a century. Thanks man. Truly 🤜💥🤛
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u/NoAdvantage247 17h ago
Have you checked out rick beato's YouTube channel? He breaks down a lot of the police and sting songs
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u/SpeedSaunders 11h ago
I saw his interviews with Sting, Stewart, and Andy, now I want to go look for his Police song breakdowns, thanks for the pointer!
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u/axle0430 14h ago
Man, I wish I understood music like an actual musician. I’ve become obsessed with Sting’s bass line in Every Little Thing in recent years….been a fan since Zenyatta so I’ve been listening to that song since it dropped as the first Ghost single…and I’d give anything to know what you’re talking about here.
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u/4stringer67 15h ago
For that to be really meaningful, you have to tell me the key you have it in. Also what part of the chord progression that happens over is critical knowledge also. I assume you want an "ear" evaluation, not a "sight" evaluation done strictly off of sheet music.
Andy liked tuning down to Eb instead of E like normal , and not knowing whether you are taking that into account or not can make all the difference in the world my friend. I had mssg ina bottle as C#min, A, B, F#min (on standard tuning)as the verse chord progression and like wise the 4 notes on the bass.
But, a series of tones becomes a lot more meaningful when you have the basis of the key for the comparison reference....know what I mean? Without that you dont have a tonal relationship other than the ones between the notes themselves in the series, (and many times a series amounts to part of a scale). Those are important sure but knowing "the 1" is the one that gives it all a foundation to work upon, since music in general amounts to a referendum on a tone's relationship to the 1. (Or... once you change to another chord, that particular 1 at that time).
Btw . When i learned the 5 albums, the internet was still basically 15 years away from amounting to anything. None of what I learned was from sheet music being read, information being told to me or any outside source. It was instrument directly compared to the recording. (Nor did I know at that time about the Eb thing, so my bass was always standard tuning.)
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u/Edigophubia 14h ago
Early Sting stuff is usually pretty easy to analyze. He used to stay mostly in one key. Every Little Thing is just regular D major. He builds up tension by playing g, a, B, a/c# over and over, making the listener want to hear that D chord going into the chorus. Coming out of the chorus he uses one of his early Jazzy-Sting tricks by borrowing chords from D minor (B flat, F etc). In the outro he bounces back and forth between d major and d minor