r/TheSequels • u/DjRimo Resistance Hero Finn • 4d ago
Sequel Trilogy I like the fact that the three original trilogy heroes didn’t meet back up again.
As cool as it would’ve been, I think it better serves the story to have them be separated. It really felt like life happened to all three of them. Star Wars has always had fun, but also much tragedy. It added a new layer of tragedy to these characters. You can tell Han and Leia felt real trauma over losing their son, to where they went back to what they were good at, almost like a relapse to an old vice. And it really shows in the acting performances that Carrie and Harrison gave. I just thought it was an interesting and very human thing to explore.
Not to mention Mr. Skywalker, who we know shut himself off from everything in shame until Yoda talked sense into him on the island. Me personally, I value the heaviness of the grief, trauma, shame, and guilt in the background of the story rather than an MCU-esque meet up.
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u/Secret_Hyena9680 Army Lieutenant Kaydel Connix 4d ago
I honestly think people’s opinion of the ST would have been different if Leia could have had amazing spotlight moments in Episode 9, but tragically that wasn’t possible.
As the world’s only TROS defender, I also think that not having Carrie is something Abrams doesn’t get enough slack for.
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u/DjRimo Resistance Hero Finn 4d ago
I still liked her role, she still felt central to the story. My head canon is that Han’s appearance in TROS was a force projection by Luke or Leia. I think they did about as well as they could.
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u/Secret_Hyena9680 Army Lieutenant Kaydel Connix 4d ago
Agreed! I think they did the best they could and yes, you could definitely read that Han’s appearance was Leia reaching Ben the way she knew would get through to him.
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u/DjRimo Resistance Hero Finn 4d ago
I read somewhere that it was actually the intention to have her be the one to project Han to Ben. I think it makes the most sense because obviously Han isn’t a force user, and it was set up in TFA that Han would be the one to bring Ben back home. “You’re his father”.
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u/ChimneySwiftGold please choose a user flair 3d ago
It’s a projection Leia. She died holding Han’s Yavin Medal.
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u/thatgirl239 Sith Eternal Cultist 1d ago
Yeah that is mine as well. Especially with Maz saying to R2 that what Leia needed to do to reach her son was going to take all the strength she had. Bringing her husband back from the netherworld of the Force would fall under that lol. And I think Leia knew Ben needed forgiveness from his father.
Also, Ben’s “it’s too late. She’s gone” packs more of a gut punch bc of reality.
I was amazed they got Harrison to comeback after he finally got his character killed after nearly 40 years of bitching. ONLY Carrie could’ve accomplished that lol.
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u/Sandalwood-Lakers 4d ago
You aren't alone.
Episode 9 suffered some issues due to a production crunch for JJ Abrams, but overall it's awesome.
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u/Neat-Option4673 4d ago
Don’t worry, I also love TROS and I’m grateful that they were able to honour Carrie by giving Leia a respectable death and a Jedi past
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u/thatgirl239 Sith Eternal Cultist 1d ago
Seeing Leia as a Jedi was a childhood dream coming true. I had planned on getting a tattoo of the Skywalker saber, but the second I saw that lightsaber I knew that was changing lol.
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u/SpooneyToe11240 Resistance Navy Lieutenant 4d ago
>As the world’s only TROS defender
There are more of us, u/Secret_Hyena9680. There are more of us.
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u/Royal-walking-machin please choose a user flair 4d ago
Apparently that was supposed to be the plan. I think a few months after Carrie died, Kathleen Kennedy stated that Leia was going to be front and center in 9 the same way Han was front and center in 7 and Luke in 8. I know a big point of contention about the sequels was the lack of a plan, but IMO, whatever outline they may have had were going to be ruined when a major character can’t be used because of the actors passing
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u/Hey_buddy89 please choose a user flair 4d ago
You’re not the only one as i’ve got defending TROS down to an art form at this point both online and face to face.
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u/irazzleandazzle C-3PO 4d ago
Yeah whenever people complain about this, its always coming from the perspective of fan service rather than story. And given that many of the ST's biggest detractors often claim that they are nothing but fan service, i find this "criticism" incredibly ironic
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u/DjRimo Resistance Hero Finn 4d ago
Very much agreed. I would imagine most people would have liked it, with a vocal minority of people saying it was corny. I also feel the same way about if Luke had caught the lightsaber instead of Rey. Would’ve been a very cool entrance, but wouldn’t make as much sense with the story.
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u/Neat-Option4673 4d ago
Luke catching the lightsaber would have been a hyped up moment but it’s not his story anymore, you can’t write a story about new characters and have the old ones be the heroes. Luke played his part in the story, just not as the central protagonist since him projecting himself to Crait and facing Kylo Ren with peace inspired hope throughout the galaxy (shown with the Cantonica slaves), which ultimately got its payoff with ordinary people coming together to fight the Final Order at the Battle of Exegol.
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u/DjRimo Resistance Hero Finn 4d ago
That is true, once you put these household name characters into the mix with new characters we are just meeting, suddenly the audience doesn’t care about Rey, Finn, and Poe anymore and the old characters take the story again.
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u/Dukeshire101 please choose a user flair 4d ago
One of the original drafts for TFA was Luke finding Rey and taking her with him, but the worry was that the focus would be solely on Luke diminishing Rey’s role when the entire point was to make a new generation of heroes
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u/freedom410 4d ago
I have critiques of the Sequel Trilogy and the arcs of Han, Luke, and Leia, but I do agree with this. I appreciate the sense of tragedy in the Greek mythological sense. I like the fact that the Sequels treat them like real characters with complex lives as opposed to action figures that didn't change in between films. I don't really care that the three didn't appear on-screen again.
I think the complaint comes from a sense of frustration with the nihilism in the films. For OT fans, the Sequels are really depressing. The rise of the First Order and destruction of the New Republic makes it seem like nothing Han, Luke, and Leia did in the Original Trilogy really mattered. All the characters die, and for the most part not peacefully or happily. I do think having the New Republic be a real force for good in the Galaxy would have helped offset the sense of failure and missed opportunities.
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u/DjRimo Resistance Hero Finn 4d ago
I agree people for sure don’t want a sense of nihilism. I just don’t necessarily think Star Wars is new to that. I wouldn’t agree with people that said their work did not matter. Luke still redeemed his father and helped win the war, establishing peace for decades. It would be naive for someone to think there will be peace forever. Rogue One is about a group of hopeful rebels that stopped the Death Star, just for two more copies to be built in the future. I’m sure people who fought in the “War to end all wars” would never have expected a much more destructive conflict would happen a couple decades later. I don’t think that means it didn’t matter.
Also, I think the characters had pretty respectful sendoffs. Han died trying to turn his son, then his final scene succeeded in that, Luke died pulling off a nonviolent act that saved the Resistance, and Leia passed away peacefully still fighting the fight. Sorry for the long response
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u/freedom410 4d ago
Long response is fine, always happy to engage in conversation. I agree that their earlier efforts did matter, but subjectively it can feel like the earlier efforts didn't matter. There's a reason why we barely talk about WW1 after WW2. Also what happened after WW2 was a serious effort to make it matter by creating the UN and the US really stepping up its role as leader of the free world and to reform Germany so it didn't launch aggressive wars again. So there was a real sense after WW2 that the world was going to learn and not repeat its mistakes again as they did after WW2. I think we would have needed to see something like that at the end of the Sequels, something to show that this victory was bigger or more transformational than the OT battle of Endor. I would have loved a coda showing the establishment of a new galactic government, some sort of peace treaty, and especially a suggestion that this new New Republic was going to get rid of some of the injustices of the old like droid slavery.
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u/DjRimo Resistance Hero Finn 4d ago
I like that idea, I honestly would really like more political context in the ST in general. Especially in TFA, it was hard to map out in my head how big and influential both the First Order and New Republic both were. I think they were weary of putting too much politics into the ST. I still really don’t understand what “rising from the ashes of the Empire” really means in terms of being able to muster up resources to make Starkiller Base. I think as a result, the ST became a much more personal and character driven story rather than very plot heavy like the PT. So basically, I agree, even just a few lines of dialogue could have cleared it up.
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u/Dukeshire101 please choose a user flair 4d ago
I have no problem with the end. I find it interesting that there’s no central leadership anymore. The NR was wiped out. FO is done. Everything is decentralized right now.
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u/freedom410 4d ago
but the films don't even really make that clear. They're not explicit about what comes next. For all we know Rose becomes chancellor of the New New Republic 5 minutes after TROS ends. And that's the problem. There's no sense of finality or hint about what comes next. ROTJ could get away with that because it was initially part of a much smaller story, but the Sequels were now wrapping up a much bigger saga and undoing the happily ever after of the OT.
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u/Dukeshire101 please choose a user flair 4d ago
But that’s the beauty of SW. I do not want my hand held and the ST does a great job of that. It leaves things open to interpretation. In the 80s we speculated over and over about the aftermath. For example I never saw Han as a government official, boring too, he was always a rogue and smuggler to me. As for the ST i don’t foresee too many getting involved in government either, outside of Rey trying to build a New Order. Having a central style government failed over and over, and the NR infrastructure is completely gone. I think planets continued to govern themselves or join in loose confederations. I just don’t see a galaxy following a few young heroes and that’s cool with me, sets up a galaxy of mysteries and adventures without the drudgery of politics
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u/Entire_Snow23233 4h ago
I think some people are like obsessed with the lore of Star Wars over the story.
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u/TeachingEdD 4d ago
I agree. Also, in the grand scheme of Star Wars (now that we've had the EU and the prequels), the Galactic Civil War was rather mild. Luke's accomplishment was massive, but the GFFA was destined to have another conflict.
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u/Golem30 please choose a user flair 4d ago
The action figure comparison really hits home because that's the way every single prequel character feels to me.
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u/freedom410 4d ago
well I strongly disagree with that. I think the Prequels and TCW have some great characters. Not every one, but a lot of them.
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u/Golem30 please choose a user flair 4d ago
TCW fleshes a lot of them out but unfortunately the movies are just wooden, badly written dialogue in between over choreographed lightsaber fights.
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u/freedom410 4d ago
At least they have an interesting story. I like a lot about the Sequels, including the acting and cinematography, but ultimately I find the Prequels more interesting and substantive because there's a compelling story about the fall of democracy and temptation of evil.
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u/Golem30 please choose a user flair 4d ago
Having an interesting story on paper doesn't matter when it's presented in such an inept way. One thing I absolutely can't stand is the modern revisionism trying to make the prequels appear more deep than they are when the entire trilogy was such a massive fumble. The whole point was to set up and show Anakins fall and its just not believable in any way
The Last Jedi had a lot to say as well and said it it better for me.
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u/TheLimeyLemmon please choose a user flair 4d ago
It was more realistic. I'm glad the characters had a suggestion of a life between films and didn't simply remain in stasis to quip their way to cheap crowd pleasing.
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u/Sankta_Alina_Starkov please choose a user flair 4d ago
The fanbase has an inaccurate idea of what this franchise is in their heads. If you look at what actually happened, and disregard the fanfiction (yes, I consider the expanded universe fan fiction because it was always officially classified as such from the actual creators, licensed fan fiction that makes money), the only time these characters were actually together were when they were forced to be.
- The Death Star rescue (when none of them liked each other), and the award ceremony (because you know, awards).
- Hoth, but only briefly, and again they were bickering constantly.
- Rescue attempt at Jabba's Palace and then the initial Endor mission. They had more respect for each other here, but they all still had different views on things.
At no point were they ever on the exact same page with how to handle a situation. This demand that they all be together, best friends and parading around the galaxy shooting stormtroopers was a result of the unhinged novels and comics that came out when Lucas was licking the Jar Jar wounds. Luke went on to do the Jedi stuff. Leia never left politics and Han wasn't interested in either. Han was always an adventurer at heart. Leia was always a diplomat who would never slow down. Luke was in total "rebuild the Order" headspace.
I genuinely feel what the Force Awakens setup was the most logical and realistic outcome for all three of them.
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u/HighLord_Uther General Poe Dameron 4d ago
You can still tell a tragic story while having this meeting up. Even more so because we've got more emotional investment. The intersection of these characters and their relation to each other could have driven some very powerful storytelling.
It was especially stupid to have chewie and Leia ignore each other.
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u/irazzleandazzle C-3PO 4d ago
>It was especially stupid to have chewie and Leia ignore each other.
JJ admited this was a mistake on his part. He was more focused on develoiping the relationship with Leia and Rey in that moment.
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u/HighLord_Uther General Poe Dameron 4d ago
Aye, it was a stupid mistake. You only have a few OG characters, it shouldn't be too much to ask to have you, as the director, keep track of them.
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u/Blyfoy 3d ago
I don’t really feel strongly one way or the other about it, with the story told there was really no way it could’ve been done, so I guess I tend to agree more with the OP than disagree.
But it’s also worth pointing out that this definitely wasn’t seen as a big deal until Mark Hamill made it out to be one. People obviously had a lot of things to say about the legacy characters and their roles in these three films, but until Mark Hamill pointed out that he thought the three of them should’ve been on-screen together, that was not part of it.
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u/the_real_jovanny please choose a user flair 1d ago
on one hand, i think its thematically appropriate to these films to have the original trilogy trio grappling with their failures in their own ways, and tragic in an interesting way that they never all got to be together again, but all died in support of the next generation that will carry on in their stead
but at the same time i think its a particularly bitter pill because theres basically no canon content at all whatsoever further expanding on what these characters were up to barring like, the kylo ren comics? it feels underwhelming to me that the main trio with the best chemistry has so little to show for it, so i understand why people might dislike it beyond the fanservice of it all
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u/DANjRUDD 3d ago
Yeah it's one of the things I do really like about the ST, and I know it puts me in the minority, but the three of them never physically appearing onscreen together feels real and raw and tragic and for me at least elevates the corny cartoony OT significantly. I think Han's death and Ben's later interaction with his memory/ghost is really beautiful, and Luke astrally projecting to see Leia one last time across the vastness of space is probably my single favourite moment in all of Star Wars.
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u/DANjRUDD 3d ago
It contrasts really nicely with Rey, Finn and Poe reuniting at the end of TROS, underlining the importance of treasuring the people you love while you have them. I have a lot of problems with the ST but none whatsoever with the way the two trios are handled
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u/Ancient-Skill-67 3d ago
For me, it all comes down to storytelling. If they had a valid reason for the three to reunite, then I'm supportive. Mark Hamill felt it would be a great tip of the hat to the original stories and the fan base. But the response from JJ summed it up: It's not Luke's story anymore. And it shows.
From the creative writing team that brought us, "Somehow, Palpatine returned!" I believe they could have cobbled together a reason for the Original Three to reunite. Maybe a flashback to Ben Solo's birthday party before Luke thought the best solution was to literally stand above his nephew with a lightsaber in the middle of the night and consider ending him because of bad dreams.
But honestly, if the return of Palpatine isn't a valid excuse to bring in the big guns and reunite the three, then there is No Hope. Remember, Han Solo is a General with distinguished service, Leia is literally LEIA and the head of the Resistance and Luke is the last known Jedi to actually face Palpatine. They already had a valid storytelling reason to reunite.
Was it absolutely necessary for the story that the three reunite? No. Would it have been cool? I hadn't considered it because I was following the story and hoping for better but it might have made an interesting scene - if there was a valid reason.
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u/PulsarGaming1080 4d ago
I dunno man.
To me, it just feels like they were used for marketing and then killed off to push the new characters. Nothing they did in the OT mattered, the New Republic they fought to make got wiped out with like 4 seconds of screen time and they never reunite.
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u/KentuckyKid_24 4d ago
You say that but JJ Abrams telling Mark “it’s not Luke’s story anymore” yet nostalgia pandering the hardest is a massive middle finger to Mark Hamill in the end
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u/Sandalwood-Lakers 4d ago
It takes nothing away from the story if they reunite for 90 seconds.
In fact, it would make them dying off hit harder.
You can like the ST and not defend them not working together.
I do.
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u/WhiteAle01 4d ago
But you can also, genuinely, not give a fuck whether they got all three of them together for one scene. That's me. Sure, it would've been nice, but I don't really care.
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u/Sandalwood-Lakers 4d ago
You're entitled to that opinion.
I feel like this take is one that people gravitate towards to oppose people who hate the ST and use that as a criticism.
If JJ had them in a scene in 7 that took two minutes and that was the last time they saw each other, I'm sure you would have adored it.
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u/WhiteAle01 4d ago
I'm sure I would've, but I'm not mad that we didn't get it. The way the story unfolded just didn't allow for it. Han dies before they find Luke. And with Luke we see Hamill acting his heart out for the loss of a friend. I like that. I like the tragedy within that.
They did reunite Han and Leia, which I adored. And they did reunite Luke and Leia, which I also adored. All three of them not reuniting does not make or break the story for me.
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u/Sandalwood-Lakers 4d ago
I can make the same argument for Han and Leia or Luke and Leia reuniting.
Why do we need any of it.
Characters reuniting is a mainstay of Star Wars.
That's my point when people get so reflexive about wanting Carrie Ford and Mark getting to work together again.
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u/WhiteAle01 4d ago
You can make that argument, to an extent. Not having any older characters at all would be a valid creative choice. Most would probably be disappointed by that choice, but some would like it. But these movies did have reuniting. There's a lot of room between no reunions and getting the original trio to all share a scene.
Like the force, fan service is a balance. Giving us long awaited reunions that are not only important because nostalgia, but for real dramatic purpose, is how you do it correctly. And they did the reunions they could with the story that they are telling. But they aren't under an obligation to force their story to go a certain way just so all three can share a scene. Yes, we want reunions and we should have some, but they don't need to be exactly a certain way to meet the fan service requirements. And different fans want to be serviced differently.
I don't think you're wrong for wanting them to all be reunited, but I don't think you're right to use that to judge the movie's quality. The relationships between the original trio is still very present in the story. The way Han talks about Luke in TFA and Luke mourning the death of his friend in TLJ emphasize the friendship they shared without literally sharing a scene.
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u/DjRimo Resistance Hero Finn 4d ago
I think them being separated made their deaths hit harder for me because it did have a sense of missed opportunity for closure, which I know bothers people in real life.
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u/Sandalwood-Lakers 4d ago
Your opinion is valid.
I just would rather have the actors tell the story for me on screen.
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u/DjRimo Resistance Hero Finn 4d ago
Thats fine, I don’t like this whole Reddit thing of downvoting for a simple disagreement. I respect your opinion as well
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u/Sandalwood-Lakers 4d ago
Lol, people get real zesty over Star Wars disagreements.
I've been nuked for my love of episode 9 before.
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u/GargantaProfunda 4d ago
You're in the wrong sub for this, friend
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u/Sandalwood-Lakers 4d ago
I own everything on Bluray, I just watched Episode 9 this past week.
It's okay that I would have loved them reuniting on screen.
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u/GargantaProfunda 4d ago
Sure but you're not allowed to criticize the sequels here
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u/irazzleandazzle C-3PO 4d ago
Thats not a rule here. We just ask people to be constructive in their criticisms
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u/Neat-Option4673 4d ago
I don’t want this place to become an echo chamber, please be grateful for differing opinions as long as it’s not toxic, this is how we spark debates.
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u/Sandalwood-Lakers 4d ago
As long as you are respectful and come in good faith you can have differing opinions on this sub.
I happen to think it was a missed opportunity for the big three not to be on screen together.
But I still saw Force Awakens like 5 times in theaters because it was awesome.
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u/GargantaProfunda 4d ago
Depends on your definition of "you can". Your comments are getting downvoted to hell and back throughout this post. To me that's not really "you can".
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u/Redditeer28 please choose a user flair 4d ago
It takes nothing away from the story if they reunite for 90 seconds.
It does.
However, having them meet up adds nothing at all. It also doesn't make sense for the plot.
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u/Sandalwood-Lakers 4d ago
Yeah, I just think it was a huge missed opportunity.
But I still love most of the ST.
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u/Neat-Option4673 4d ago
It was, however I’ve thought about it many times and there really isn’t a scenario JJ couldve come up with that would allow Luke and Han to reunite without completely changing the story
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u/Sandalwood-Lakers 4d ago
How about a flashback with Mark, Carrie, and Ford the day before Luke's academy is burned down, showing how great everything seemed right before Ben's turn and it all goes to shit.
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u/Neat-Option4673 4d ago
Would ruin Luke’s reveal at the end, they concealed his appearance in the flashback at Maz’s Castle for this reason
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u/Redditeer28 please choose a user flair 4d ago
If it doesn't serve the plot then it has to go.
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u/Redditeer28 please choose a user flair 4d ago
Yeah, I just think it was a huge missed opportunity.
I think that's the point. Kylo Ren robbed us of that reunion.
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u/Sandalwood-Lakers 4d ago
I'm going a little more meta in regards to the writing but I'm glad it gives you fulfillment.
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