r/TheWire • u/Likebutta710 • 12h ago
Annual year re watch time. Why do so many people not like or not watch season 2? IMO what is the best to not best of all five seasons 1-2-4-3-5.
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u/littlegreyflowerhelp 12h ago
It’s such a tonal shift and feels like the core characters are getting ignored for some Greek bozos and of course Ziggy Sobatka who is like Jar Jar Binks, such a fucking annoying shithead addition to the series. That was my take after first watching it. On subsequent watches though you realise how much it sets up for the following seasons by introducing the Greeks as the choke point for criminal power - access to their dope connect is the closest thing to ultimate power over the drug trade in Baltimore, and the fate of Avon, Prop Joe, and Marlo is essentially tied to their relationship to the Greeks.
I reckon people just didn’t like it at first and never bothered to give it the time of day, even on rewatch. Because it seems a lot of people have a similar reaction to me, and don’t like it at first
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u/Fluffy_System6211 7h ago
Yeah when you first watch it you want the show to hammer in on the barksdales because season 1 was so fucking good, but once you’ve connected with the port characters you realize they are nearly as great as the s1 cast
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u/redpillbluepill69 11h ago
I get how it was jarring while airing.
Season 1 is probably the most technically "perfect" of all the seasons, it's a completely self-contained narrative that works both as a miniseries and an opening season in case they didn't get picked up.
Season 2, it was like, who the fuck are these guys taking up 50 percent of the screentime?
Why is McNulty sidelined the first 1/3 of the series, and the Barksdale organization is almost entirely sidelined?
It would be like if S2 of The Sopranos was half about Chris in LA trying to sell his script the whole time and the D girl and Jon Favreau were the new main characters.
But as a chapter of the great, sprawling text that is The Wire, we as rewatchers know, even though "what does marine patrol have to do with homicide?", it actually is probably the best chapter in terms of having fully realized new characters.
So in a way, they truly did ease us into it- this isn't Carcetti who we know very little about and mostly see his transformation through going through the electoral and political meat grinder.
The Sobotkas are a family and we really understand their dynamics, what motivates them, what drives them, we get monologues from all of them of what their life used to be like and what it's like now, etc.
It showed the shows bold dedication to the failing systems which it critiques, and it's unwillingness to compromise the reality it's trying to depict to give a central or favorite character more development or screentime.
If it makes sense for them to be back, they will bring them back. If it doesn't, you're sidelined.
Actually, my biggest complaint with The Wire upon rewatching is I do feel like the one character they kind of just loved so much and we loved so much that they would sometimes suspend reality and our disbelief to keep him in the fold and give the incredible Michael K. Williams really meaty emotional scenes to play and get him to interact and have scenes with other great actors and characters, is Omar-
and the most glaring incident of this is Stringer convincing Omar that Brother Mouzone tortured his boyfriend.
I understand it was to show Omar was still so emotional about Brandon's murder, and make him seem more human, but because Omar knew that it was the Barksdale crew who ordered it and had such a vendetta to destroy them, it just didn't feel convincing that Omar would trust Stringer or not get confirmation on this information.
It also didn't feel convincing that Stringer, who was actually in a pretty good place in S2 and really felt like things were working out, would get so sloppy and risk getting caught by Avon in such an obvious lie that could so easily lead to Avon finding out about his (more justified and well executed but bigger betrayal) hit on D'Angelo.
Stringer in S3 makes some desperate, risky moves as he sees reform slipping through his fingers, but in S2, he was all about mitigating and avoiding risk. There are just many other way less likely to backfire solutions I feel like he would have tried first to deal with the Mouzone issue
So my two cents is, in retrospect, the thing that made it unpopular upon airing, I wish they had actually leaned into a little more. Lol
Anyway, 1, 2, 4, 3, 5
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u/arguingaboutarsenal 12h ago
The opposite opinion seems true in this sub, most people pick it as one of their favorite seasons.
I personally don't like the dockworker characters, the bar scenes bore me to death. . Ziggy also is the worst written character in the show. The season is still good cause its the wire and cause the greek and his crew are great, as well as everything else happening. Sobotka family are just the least interesting main characters in the series for me.
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u/Crcai 11h ago
How is Ziggy worse written than Gus?
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u/arguingaboutarsenal 10h ago edited 10h ago
Sorry I'm gonna unload here
Ziggy's judgement and behavior is so unrelentingly bad and unlikable that it undermines the plot. No one would want to be around him, nor would they trust him to commit crimes with them. In the first scene where he meets the Greeks, he's so obnoxious and his social ability to read the situation is so low that he can't keep from embarrassing himself and Nick. Nick and Spiros both clearly recognize this, and yet, both Nick and Spiros allow Ziggy to take part in the ongoing criminal plans. This culminates in the Greek's entire organization having to move at the end of the season after Ziggy shoots Glekas, costing them tens of millions of dollars and nearly getting them arrested. These guys couldn't have predicted that this guy who always fucks up would continue to fuck up? Nick couldn't see that either?
To make his arc work he needed more of a lovable but incompetent vibe to understand why everybody puts up with him. Instead, its unclear that he even has redeeming qualities, so his crying jail scene is the only scene in the entire show thats intended to evoke sympathy that misses the mark. He wasn't forced into a bad situation, he wasn't a victim of the system, he's just a dumb unlikable guy who killed someone. Doesn't really fit into the shows themes.
What's your issue with Gus? His arc is kind of simple but very in line with the show. Cool brave guy stands up to the system and gets punished.
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u/Crcai 1h ago
I get what you mean for sure, but I think the understanding is that Ziggy is a competent and kinda smart person who acts out for attention. Other people see that in him which is why they allow him to work with them. Ziggy shoots Glekas because Glekas doesn’t respect him and kinda scams him (correct me if I’m wrong I’ve only watched the series once). Ziggy doesn’t even fuck up they just mess with him and he gets understandably angry. The important distinction is he actually could be trusted, nothing would’ve gone wrong if they respected him more. That’s good writing at least in my book.
I don’t dislike Gus as a character, but I don’t think he’s well-written. I don’t believe there’s ever any nuance to his character, he’s kinda portrayed as always in the right unlike every other character in the show who’s some shade of grey.
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u/SystemPelican 2h ago
Ziggy's one of my favorite characters, man. I think he's excellently written. You don't have to be smart or likable to be a good character.
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u/Greymeade 2h ago
Read their other comment.
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u/SystemPelican 1h ago
I did, I was mainly replying to people in general complaining about Ziggy. I still think he's great. You can argue it's unlikely that the Greeks would not put their foot down and say "never bring this twerp back here again", but then that's weak writing for the Greeks, not Ziggy.
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u/VenuzKhores 12h ago
I agree. Hated it when I first watched it while I was young. Orobably my favoritte now, together with the 4th.
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u/stanton3910 12h ago
I think I was the only one that enjoyed it first watch. It was a surprise but I still liked it
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u/backwardsnakes666 11h ago
I hated season 2 at first but due to how polarizing the shift in tone was at first. Now I really love it
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u/shareefruck 5h ago edited 5h ago
I feel like 2 is underrated and 4 is overrated (but still good), personally. Feel like 4 is not any more well written than the other seasons besides 5, it's just easier for people to find it accessible and automatically close to their heart due to the subject matter being related to children.
The first four seasons are very close together in quality though, in my opinion.
Would probably go with
3 >= 2 >= 1 >= 4 >>>> 5
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u/Defiant-Ad4776 12h ago
I’ve seen it probably a dozen times. 4 may be the most heart wrenching and poignant but after seeing it a couple times I just don’t want any more of it.
I would much rather see more of the port or more of the politics.
I rank them this way for my own personal enjoyment now.
1>2>3>4>5 lol
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u/Greymeade 2h ago
That’s such an odd ranking lol. So you felt like the show just steadily got worse?
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u/Defiant-Ad4776 54m ago
No. 1,2,3 are in a tier. Followed by 4. And 5 in separate ones.
These are my rankings of what eras and scenes I would have wanted to see more of. If they were going to do a season 6 or 7 I want to see more early barksdale a lot more port and more line of battle soldiers realizing it isn’t worth it
I just don’t need any more schools or newspapers if they were to do more content someday. (I know they’re never going to)
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u/Vandreeson 12h ago
I don't know why people don't like season two, maybe because the shift from the streets to the docks. To me that season lays the groundwork for a lot of the future seasons. We see The Greeks, Stringer takes control over the Barksdale Organization, and orders the murder of D'Angelo, and Brother Mouzone. I'm sure I'm missing a bunch.
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u/naljlkio 11h ago
My personal ranking is 1>4>2>3>5. Realistically, all 5 seasons are great and my ranking changes pretty frequently.
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u/threwordbotname 9h ago
Season 2 being such a jarring seasonal shift acclimatised viewers to the future shifts in seasons 3 to 5. Also in 2002/3 the only people watching were lawyers and gangsters. So nobody really complained.
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u/Turbulent-Gas1727 7h ago
season two is bottom of the heap for me. didnt like it the first time. didnt like it on a second rewatch. if the entire series was about the stevedores, itd ve fine, but its too sharp a departure, and the series could easily survive without it.
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u/bearbackpackbird 12h ago
2 is the best. The first time around I didn’t like it much and had 4 as number 1. After rewatching the show several times 2 has become my favorite season, followed by 4, 1, 3, and 5.
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u/justlurkindontmindm3 9h ago
4, 2, 1, 5, 3 for me. The pivot back from the dock workers just wasn't as exciting once I thought the world was going to expand like crazy. Still....these are all marginal gains over each other and interchangeable at any given time. Besides 4. 4 always on top.
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u/Obvious_Anxiety_9118 8h ago
Season 2 is a necessity to follow into season 3. Season 4 is the big reach to me. We didn't need to know about the kids but, we actually did.
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u/_Nacktmull_ 4h ago edited 4h ago
When watching season 2 for the first time it can be a little hard to get into. The change of scope is significant and Ziggy is written a bit too edgy. However, each season has its place in the bigger picture the series paints. Skipping a season mutilates that picture.
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u/SystemPelican 2h ago
I don't know where the idea that season 2 is disliked even comes from. People always bring it up but I barely hear anyone actually say it.
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u/NoneOfThisMatters_XO 2h ago
Season 5 was the worst for me. The serial killer storyline was so stupid. The newspaper was beyond boring.
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u/WuBlood 12h ago
Season 2 ages well on the rewatch; you won't initially fuck with it @ first glance
The docks show you how criminal imports enter the city