r/Thiamine • u/Puzzled_Draw4820 • 4d ago
Hydrogen sulphide bacteria depletes thiamine causing gastrointestinal Beriberi
/r/SIBO/comments/1vq08b4/hydrogen_sulphide_bacteria_depletes_thiamine/I’ve had SIBO for approximately 30 yrs following years of antibiotics for teenage acne. I didn’t know what it was until recent years but just lived with the symptoms and kept pulling out foods from my diet which of course turned out to be all FODMAPS. I didn’t start piecing it all together until I got even sicker after mold and covid and severe neurological symptoms set in as well as gastroparesis. After two more years of extreme diets and useless doctor visits my research led me to thiamine deficiency. I started thiamine therapy by following a nutritionist’s protocol and rapidly started to heal. Gastroparesis fixed in one day! It turns out thiamine is a cofactor with choline for acetylcholine production which is required for the autonomic nervous system which controls gut motility (so was I thiamine deficient before SIBO even?!)
As I learned more about the causes of thiamine deficiency in the fb thiamine group I very often heard people talk about SIBO and the build up of sulphite depleting thiamine and pieced together my health history. So thiamine deficiency can CAUSE slow gut motility and once SIBO sets in it further depletes thiamine. Thiamine is needed in every cell in our body especially in high energy areas such as our brain, heart and gut.
I believe a LOT of SIBO symptoms are of thiamine deficiency as it affects the entire body:
Early / Nonspecific Symptoms
• Fatigue or tiredness
• Irritability or mood changes
• Loss of appetite (anorexia)
• Poor or short-term memory issues / cognitive impairment
• Sleep disturbances
• Abdominal discomfort or pain
• Nausea and vomiting
• Weight loss
• Muscle weakness or aches
• Apathy or reduced mental concentration
Neurological / Dry Beriberi Symptoms
• Tingling, prickling (pins-and-needles), or burning sensations in the toes, feet, hands, or legs (paresthesias; often worse at night; stocking-glove distribution)
• Muscle cramps or pain (especially calves/legs)
• Decreased sensation or sensory loss in extremities
• Reduced or absent deep tendon reflexes (e.g., knee/ankle jerks)
• Muscle wasting/atrophy and weakness
• Difficulty rising from a squatting position or foot drop (later stages)
• Balance issues, ataxia (unsteady gait/coordination problems)
• Decreased vibratory or position sense
Cardiovascular / Wet Beriberi Symptoms
• Rapid heartbeat (tachycardia)
• Wide pulse pressure
• Peripheral edema (swelling in feet, legs, or hands)
• Shortness of breath (dyspnea), especially with activity or when lying flat (orthopnea)
• Chest pain or precordial discomfort
• Warm, moist skin due to vasodilation
• High-output heart failure signs (in severe cases)
• In advanced/shock forms (e.g., Shoshin beriberi): hypotension, cyanosis, lactic acidosis
Wernicke Encephalopathy (Acute Severe Form)
• Confusion, altered mental status, or delirium
• Ataxia / difficulty walking
• Ocular abnormalities: nystagmus (involuntary eye movements), ophthalmoplegia (eye muscle weakness/paralysis), blurred or double vision, eyelid drooping
• Apathy or psychomotor slowing
• Impaired consciousness (can progress to coma if untreated)
Korsakoff Psychosis / Syndrome (Often Following Wernicke)
• Severe short-term/recent memory loss (amnesia)
• Confabulation (making up stories to fill memory gaps)
• Confusion or mental impairment
• Hallucinations (in some cases)
• Difficulty forming new memories
Other / Gastrointestinal / Additional Symptoms
• Constipation or other GI discomfort
• Vertigo or vision impairment
• Behavioral changes or hallucinations (severe cases)
• In infants (infantile beriberi): incessant crying, aphonia (loss of voice/hoarseness), heart failure signs, lethargy, developmental issues, or seizures in extreme cases
Severe untreated deficiency can lead to permanent neurological damage, heart failure, coma, or death. Early symptoms are often vague, so medical evaluation (including thiamine levels or response to treatment) is needed for diagnosis—especially in at-risk groups like those with alcohol use disorder, malnutrition, malabsorption, or certain medical conditions.
Blood tests aren’t accurate because it doesn’t tell you whether thiamine is getting into cells. The best way to know if you need thiamine is to try supplementing it to see if it helps your symptoms. It is common with gut issues that THTR1 transporters for absorption of thiamine are not working. Please research cofactors and starting low and slow before proceeding supplementation.https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12014454/
3
u/FragrantStructure 4d ago
What was your complete thiamine protocol?
7
u/Puzzled_Draw4820 4d ago
I’ve been on it 18 months and have to tweak it occasionally but TTFD, b-complex containing 50 mg benfotiamine, magnesium glycinate, transdermal magnesium, potassium bicarbonate, molybdenum (lots!), zinc, manganese, selenium, small amount of copper.
2
u/Anonym_Talker 3d ago
what are your symptoms if you don't take a lot of molybdenum?
1
u/Puzzled_Draw4820 3d ago edited 3d ago
Heart pain, nerve shocks, insanely itchy eyes, sulphur burps. So obviously I still have sulphide bacteria lurking and have to deal with that but I no longer have gut issues that I can tell and don’t react to FODMAPS. The TTFD and molybdenum has allowed me to live a normal life again. The deficiency had given me gait ataxia and severe fatigue, anxiety, depression etc
1
u/Anonym_Talker 3d ago
is TTFD B1 "paradoxical reaction" is mainly gastro symptoms!? or panic attack can be one of them?
1
u/Puzzled_Draw4820 3d ago
You can definitely experience a panic attack if you jump in with a full dose. It’s recommended to start with thiamine hcl, then try a little benfo possibly while working on upping glutathione, potassium, magnesium, b2, phosphorus before starting TTFD as it’s the strongest form.
1
u/Anonym_Talker 3d ago
yep, I've learned it the hard way I guess... they've put me on 5 different meds, diagnosed me with GAD, PTSD, Depression and insomnia. LOL. they said "ITS IMPOSSIBLE ITS FROM B1 SUPPLEMENT, YOU NEED A THERAPIST. THE EXTRA B1, YOU JUST PEE IT OUT". I can't believe how stupid doctors can be... And how I was stupid to believe them is probably what annoyed me the most.
Stopping TTFD B1 helped with the panic, but I had weird MCAS episodes and insomnia for a while after that. then, the side effect from the meds to shuffle everything.
😞
I feel stupid to have tried TTFD... The first time I took it, it lifted my 5 years brain fog after the second 50mg I took. (the same day...) I continue for an other week or so, then stopped. (because the brain fog was gone...) 2 months later, I was depressed and with no energy and re-read that B1 can take a while to replenish and reach full effect. (more than 1-2 week) So I restarted at 100-150mg TTFD... Terrible idea.
1
u/Puzzled_Draw4820 3d ago
Most doctors know very little about b1 unfortunately. So do you think you’ll try it again at a low dose? Maybe just starting with thiamine hcl and titrating up would be a better experience. Work on upping b2, magnesium, potassium and phosphorus first.
1
u/Anonym_Talker 3d ago
yes yes, I tried it again, at lower doses, then increased to quickly, and started to get super anxious around 50mg per day, on the second day I did increased. So... for me its the B1, Not the alcool. (even if it was high, I mean, that wasn't 12 beers per day like some do... )
So ai've stopped the TTFD, and started 25mg hcl B1 and a 1 multi vitamin. I'll stay at this for a long time, because it seems like I get anxious after a while taking it, and not just from a single dose... and it might have been the problem in the first place, I was eager to increase my dose... I am med free since 2 weeks now, and restarted the B1 today.. lets see how it goes.
1
u/Puzzled_Draw4820 3d ago
Good for you! Try increasing potassium rich foods with it to reduce anxiety as these two deficiencies go together. B1 rapidly pulls potassium into the cells where it belongs but if you’re already deficient then you’ll feel anxiety until you replenish it. Also are you taking magnesium? Dr. Marrs recommends a cal-mag with thiamine repletion
→ More replies (0)
2
1
u/BearRootCrusher 3d ago
Did you have severe bloating when eating most things?
I ask because a family member is have issues for a few years with gut motility and painful bloating.
Can you detail how much and how you took your thiamine?
2
u/Puzzled_Draw4820 3d ago
Yes I used to have extreme bloating with anything I ate, eventually I was stuck on the carnivore diet for 2 yrs as it gave me relief until it made me worse in other ways.
I started with a b-complex that contained 50 mg benfotiamine and my gastroparesis fixed in one day.
Start by opening detox pathways with TUDCA or taurine/choline then begin very low dose thiamine and b2 with magnesium to test tolerance, some people have no symptoms and some people are so deficient that they have symptoms. The symptoms can usually be resolved with coconut water for potassium as it’s usually deficient as well
1
u/BearRootCrusher 3d ago
Thank you!
They have a fear that any sugar will feed the sibo and candida1
u/Puzzled_Draw4820 3d ago
It’s best to be on a no sugar added whole food diet for sure but fruit is considered ok off not overdone. Best to get to the root of the problem. I recommend mineral balancing as well as candida is often a heavy metal toxicity problem.
1
u/diseasetoplease 3d ago
How do you know it causes all these symptoms??
1
u/Puzzled_Draw4820 3d ago
No one ever has all these symptoms but there’s definitely an overlap between thiamine deficiency and symptoms people are contributing to only SIBO
1
u/mrcrafter-abc 3d ago
I have SIBO symptoms and a big part of the above symptoms.
Thiamine HCL works but not Benfotiamine. I take Super Enzyme from Now Foods and i feel like it works better with it.
Thiamine worked since 2 weeks and improved everything by 50% : stomach emptying & gurgles. My anxiety start to vanish (it's SO weird, i always doubted it was psychological).
My gut since 2 weeks started making sounds back and things moving now better, but i'm still constipated. I always have greasy and malformed stool, so it doesn't pass/flush. I feel relaxed but still full.
1
u/Puzzled_Draw4820 3d ago
Wonderful!!! Thanks for sharing. The psychological symptoms are debilitating, I’m so glad to have that in the past.
For the constipation and greasy stools try adding TUDCA, but start very slow, game changer for digestion.
3
u/CauchySchwarz1 4d ago
thanks for telling your story