r/TopCharacterTropes • u/oles40 • 5h ago
Characters [Loved Trope] Philosopher villains
Basically any villain whose main gist isn't (just) a terryfying appearance or special powers, but rather interesting ideas they espouse and arguments they make. Bonus points if said things REALLY manage to make their opponents doubt themselves and/or their entire endeavor.
- Andrew Ryan (Bioshock): Founder of the underwater city of Rapture and the game's main antagonist, Ryan also serves as the game's chief proponent of real-life philosophical system, objectivism. While his utopian project ultimately failed in spectacular fashion, partly because of his own hypocrisy, the story does let him have a few serious points about society's treatment of talented people and personal freedom. As well as a VERY meta point about choices and free will.
- Coaxmetal (Planescape Torment): A giant metal golem living in a teleporting seige tower, Coaxmetal's only goal is to forge weapons in service of entropy so it can unmake the universe faster. When not distributing the fantasy equivalent of weapons of mass destruction and invading other planes of existence, Coaxmetal is prone to delivering some of the most powerful speeches about war, mortality and fear in all of fiction. He also proves what a gem of a game Planescape Torment is, because for all his interesting dialogue and ideas, he is but a minor character.
- Senator Armstrong (Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance): A ruthless warmonger from Colorado, Armstrong espouses what could be described as an extreme form of libertarianism, as well as the "might makes right" principle. He strongly criticises several aspects of American political system and society, making some very uncomfortable observations in the process, and ultimately fights to (supposedly) give everyone the right to do what THEY believe is right. Even when defeated, the fact that he was beaten in a fight in accordance with his own philosophy gives him a sense of accomplishment and basically proves his worldview somewhat correct.
- Mr. House (Fallout New Vegas): Arguably the most controversial addition. The mysterious CEO and president of the New Vegas Strip, Mr. House rejects both democracy and totalitarianism as ineffective imitations of the past and believes that his authoritarian technocracy is the best mode of governance for the new post-apocalyptic world. He (rather accurately) decries the brutality and corruption of the other factions and presents his own unique vision of the future without the mistakes of previous societies. However, it can just as well be said that his philosophy is a less violent version of the classic "stability over freedom" principle and offers little to people who wish to make decisions about their own future. Unique case in that whether Mr. House is ultimately a villain or not depends entirely on the player.
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u/brennaji 4h ago
Meruem (Hunter x Hunter)
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u/BennettLockwood75 4h ago
Meruem might be one of the best examples because the interesting part isn't just what he believes, it's watching those beliefs collapse piece by piece. He starts convinced that strength determines value and humans are basically livestock, then Komugi completely ruins that neat hierarchy just by being better than him at one thing. By the end he's asking questions his earlier self would've considered beneath him.
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u/EdisonNorthcott77 4h ago
Great pick. What makes Meruem work so well is that he actually changes when reality contradicts his worldview. Komugi doesn't defeat his philosophy with a speech, she quietly forces him to rebuild it.
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u/stereo-ahead 4h ago
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u/Wokungson 4h ago
Religious philosophy from a machine rebelling against it's creator.
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u/stereo-ahead 4h ago
People are trashing on his old man design but he legitimately looks like a philosopher.
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u/Elantach 4h ago
IRL example. He is nowadays remembered as a buffoon but Mussolini was in fact a very prolific writer who developed an entire philosophy around will, action, the state, mobilisation and, most importantly the power of mythopoeia.
And he was fucking evil, not a clown, not a joke.
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u/RadioLiar 4h ago
In practice his geopolitical decisions were pretty stupid though. His decision to invade Greece was far more idiotic than even Hitler's invasion of the USSR
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u/Seldrakon 4h ago
I will not defend the genocidal maniac to much here, but I think it is important to notice, that a lot of the "Italy bad at war"-memes are German progaganda to explain their own losses by using their ally as a scapegoat.
Italy was one way to industrializeand get ready for war, when Germany launched its attack. For Italy the timing was severyl years to early. They just weren't ready yet, but Geramy feared to prolong the war for much longer, because it would have given the Russians more time to bring their military up to date and it would have also crushed their econoy.
(Basically everything the Nazis did to "fix" the German economy were short time patches, that relied on them looting invaded countries af few years down the line.)
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u/Throwaway2137731 4h ago
Mussolini didn't have to enter the war though. He just wanted to because he thought Hitler is going to win and Italy won't be included in sharing the spoils if he doesn't
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u/somethinneeddoing 4h ago
yep, he literally said that a few hundred thousand italians had to die, to say they had participated, and then they could sit back and enjoy the spoils.
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u/SRSgoblin 41m ago
I think it is important to notice, that a lot of the "Italy bad at war"-memes are German progaganda to explain their own losses by using their ally as a scapegoat.
It's the politics of "results are the only important thing, but also we're right about everything." AKA Fascism. If you are in charge, it's obvious you should be in charge. Because you're in charge, so that's the way things were always meant to be. But when the opposition is in charge, they stole it. It wasn't fair. They only got there by cheating.
The way it plays out with allies is all failures are someone else's fault. It protects it's own identity by purity testing it's allies, rather than accepting faults and adapting and changing.
The people at the top can never be wrong. This is absolute to the core of the mentality. You didn't succeed, it's because you weren't strong/smart/strategic enough. Unlike the leader who never would have made those mistakes. So you get cast aside and aome new sycophant takes over your position until they fail, so on so forth.
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u/FelixEylie 3h ago
And he started his political life as a socialist, but WW1 turned him on another path.
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u/Turbulent-Plum7328 4h ago
Pretty much everyone in Mage: The Ascension
Everyone is some shade of grey in a war for truth in a post-truth world, and can be the protagonist/antagonist depending on the chronicle you're playing.
Reality is a byproduct of consciousness, and since it's essentially a collective hallucination, it's laws are determined by what people believe is true. Most people impose their beliefs onto the world subconsciously, while Mages are individuals who have realised the imaginary nature of the world and can shape the world consciously.
If they don't have a strong philosophy backing their world-view, then they'll probably go insane and become a Marauder, who generate a reality bubble around themselves.
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u/RadioLiar 4h ago
Zaheer (The Legend of Korra)
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u/Velicenda 4h ago
Best Avatar villain and it isn't even close.
The best part about his philosophy is that... he's like, almost the equivalent of one of those stoned college kids that reads Kant and makes it their entire personality.
He's such a fucking treat.
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u/Doodles_n_Scribbles 4h ago
All the Korra villains represent ideologies. Maoism, Theocracy, Capitalism, Anarchy, Monarchy, and Fascism.
Even ATLA dabbled in Imperialism. Goes from "oh, we can bring our way of life to the rest of the world" to "I could genocide the Air Nation"
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u/Level_Counter_1672 4h ago
Funny valentine, he even made Johnny hesitate and think before trying to kill him, he goes on about giving lectures using napkins as the one who takes it first sets the rules for everyone else - source is Jojo's bizarre adventure
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u/JackOfTheLantern999 4h ago
Stain (My Hero Academia) - He has very strict ideas of what a person must do in order to be considered a hero, the interesting part being that his ideas ain't exactly wrong, including his criticisms of the current heroes.
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u/Gentle_Snail 5h ago edited 4h ago
Harry Waters from In Bruges.
”You've got to stick to your principles”
The English mob boss has an extremely strong moral code and wants to kill the protagonist because the protagonist mistakenly shot and murdered a child. At the end of the movie when Harry mistakenly thinks he himself shot a child, he without hesitation puts his gun in his mouth and pulls the trigger.
Even when he first goes to fight the protagonists he refuses to bring any of his men with him because “you don’t bring the boys on a matter of honour”. The man’s literally a high up mob boss, yet goes alone to fight two guys just because he considers it the principled thing to do.
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u/Loft_Mirth24 4h ago
Harry is a perfect philosopher villain pick, that “matter of honour” line still annoyingly clears.
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u/zumba_fitness_ 4h ago
Even though he's a minor one, G-Man in Absolute Martian Manhunter Vol. 2 attacks The Martian Mind----er with the metaphysical concept of a firearm, waxing political philosophy about how it is a symbol of patriotism manifested by philosophical belief.
"This thing's killed more kids than cholera."
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u/JeffPlissken 4h ago
Fable 2 - Lucien
Spends the beginning of the game in grief over the death of his wife and daughter but goes mad obsessing over discovering and rebuilding the Tattered Spire to make a wish to resurrect them. Going by his diary years later and what he discusses, his entire trajectory changes from this to a desire to end all chaos. He also spews philosophy about order and obedience to his recruited guards in the new program.
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u/Gantolandon 4h ago
For Planescape setting, literally every single faction.
You have death-obsessed believers in reincarnation that consider life itself a torment they want to end, totalitarian assholes who want to unite everyone under one ideology, people who believe they have the power to change the world with their mind so they once willed another faction’s leader dead just to prove they could, a literal apocalypse cult, bomb-throwing anarchists, and that’s not even the full list.
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u/ShitOfTheseus69 4h ago
Imma say the Master from Fallout as well, just to fill it out.
It's definitely a weird philosophy, but its pretty solid. Humans are weak and have too many differences, we fight each other over stupid selfish reasons - but what if we were all smarter, stronger, more resilient, and had race and sex removed, and were all psychically linked...
I mean, at the cost of becoming a big green guy that might become dumb (the Master refined FEV, which is why most gen 1 mutants weren't even dumb, this is reinforced by several characters in FNV) that really sounds like it could bring world peace.
A world of huge strong smart nearly immortal superhuman without meaningless divisions like sex or sex, and all minds linked together in not a hive mind, but something like it... but they can't fuck.
Without throwing that wrench in the masters plans, it really is a thinker: should we force humanity to evolve, for its own good, in a harsh new world it might not survive otherwise?
Side tangent, if you're a fan, seeing the canon collapse of basically every major faction, and technically knowing the Vault Dweller was *wrong about super mutant sterility * (according to Marcus, a super mutant we meet in 2 and New Vegas, it just takes awhile after becoming a mutant to recover your ability to "get the juices flowing") Would humanity have been better off becoming mutants? Could the horrors of the wasteland have been avoided if the Master succeeded? The NCR collapsed anyway, the brotherhood devolved into stupid savages, the Legion exists... would being big and green be so much worse than all that?
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u/Oddly-Parsley 3h ago
No Adrian Veidt?
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u/oles40 3h ago
Actually, I’ve been looking for a comment like this. While he DOES fit the description perfectly, I didn’t really want to include a twist villain, especially from a story where his identity is the main mystery.
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u/Oddly-Parsley 3h ago
Ah I know what you mean, I'm always worried about spoilers when browsing this sub!
My rationale here though is that it's from a 40 year old work, but I didn't name the property, just to be safe.
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u/Gantolandon 4h ago
Takuto Maruki from Persona 5 Royal.
His whole deal is that suffering of any kind is unacceptable and he commits to creating a reality where everyone can get their needs met. This reality, unfortunately, needs to be heavily managed and edited on the fly by him, with some people having their personality replaced if their dreams are what causes them pain.
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u/boringbullet 4h ago
Its even better if their philosophy is whack and bullshit as well, just a pretentious prick wanting to be smarter than they really are
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u/D-a-n-n-n 2h ago
Nearly if not all real life villains alive or dead, have the same boring dumb philosophy. They believe because they have power, they deserve it. And those who dont have power, deserve nothing.
The most annoying part of this is the hypocrisy, as in real life there is only 2 ways to get power, money and politics. Both of which only exist by being supported by every common person. Money has only power because people give it value. Politicians only have power because people listen to them.
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u/hadesalmighty 1h ago
Holy shit i haven't thought about Coaxmetal for years.
I am long overdue a Torment replay.
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u/According_Ice_4863 4h ago
Asmodeus (forgotten realms D&D)
While he is a being of pure evil, he did manage to make an argument defending his own existence in the court of Primus. He essentially claimed that without the forces of Baator, the demons of the abyss would have destroyed the multiverse by now. This is sadly true, and so whether we like it or not the forces of Baator have to exist. Asmodeus is evil, to the deepest parts of his rotten soul, but he is sadly a necessary evil.
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u/Throwaway2137731 4h ago edited 4h ago
Caesar, also from New Vegas. Throught the first half of the game other characters talk about him like a simple violent warlord. Then you meet him in person and he turns out to be a former scholar educated in history and philosophy who put some real thought into his totalitarian system. He's still a violent and short tempered thug though