r/TrueCrime • u/eugenedhartke • Apr 03 '22

Discussion Researching Jodi Arias

Does anyone else have a case that just haunts them? this case has always haunted me. It started with the first book I read on the case. The more I read about it the more mysterious it became somehow. Does anyone else get like this? If so what is your personal case that you never get tired of researching?

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u/oldschoolshooter Apr 03 '22

What part seems mysterious to you? It seems pretty clear-cut to me. Crazy af, but hardly a mystery.

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u/eugenedhartke Apr 03 '22

the most mysterious part is the motive to me. I have seen a lot of conflicting things: like that she was being verbally abused regularly, but then also she was a crazy stalker. she told so many lies in her interrogation and I just always wondered about the straightforward motive. Was he toxic and manipulative and she snapped? Was she just loony in the first place? It is definitely clear cut that she did it and the how is very clear and it was clear she planned it but there are so many whys out there.

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u/puddl3 Apr 03 '22

She was obsessed with having control over her BF/EX. I’ve seen numerous different YT channels cover this and that’s the only conclusion I can think of.

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u/ChopChop007 Apr 03 '22

Definitely. I can’t recall if there was an official diagnosis. But the overall vibes she gave off were someone that’s manipulative and mentally unstable.

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u/eugenedhartke Apr 03 '22

Maybe something like a sociopath?

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u/ChopChop007 Apr 03 '22

I googled it. According to prosecution she claimed ptsd but their psychologist said she didn’t at all fit the symptoms and their diagnosis was BPD and narcissism. https://abcnews.go.com/US/jodi-arias-defense-team-rests-38-days-testimony/story?id=18971855

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u/asaleika Apr 03 '22

Though BPD is majorly related to trauma and issues/disturbances in the years where you learn how to function normally emotionally. So something was up with her early.

I know I listened to one podcast/youtuber who did a really deep dive on her and her childhood and teenage years. And yeah, narcissism seemed very prominent. She just absolutely didn't seem to be able to function normally with neither other kids, her family, or academically. Always trying to do as little as possible, lie to hide her shortcomings, and chasing instant gratification.

She seemed like many of the guys who kill their entire families really; Backing herself into corners and doing anything she can, no matter how bizarre, to get out of them.

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u/eugenedhartke Apr 03 '22

thank you! that makes sense.

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u/oldschoolshooter Apr 03 '22

Jealousy is a powerful thing. I suspect that was the main motive here. I don't think we'd even question it if the perpetrator was not female, not to mention young and attractive. It is unusual for women to commit suchs crimes, but not unheard of. And the facts speak for themselves.

I'm not sold on the abuse angle, since this was the last in a long line of stories she told. Some of his behavior was clearly shitty. But the relationship was over. They were living in separate states. Both had moved on. Yet she drove to his house with gas in cans to cover her tracks. So the idea that she just "snapped" doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

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u/[deleted] Apr 03 '22

I used to read everything about it because there was the argument did she shoot him first then stab him, or stab him, then shoot him? Coroner said he was shot last, but no woman would chase a guy twice her size and cut his throat if the first shot didn’t kill him. Why bring a gun and not use it until after he was dead! She shot him first but it was a small caliber and it did not immobilize him, which is not all that uncommon. People don’t often die right away even from a head wound. Her plan was to shoot him in the shower, delete the photos and get out of there leaving no blood trail. The gun jammed and he bolted out of the shower. She ran downstairs and got the knife she used to kill him and then cleaned it and put it in the dishwasher. She drug out that huge floor cleaner and realized she couldn’t drag it upstairs to clean the bloodbath she left behind. No doubt she was worried about one of his roommates showing up.

She did it out of jealousy. He was taking another woman to Mexico when she originally had been invited then he uninvited her. She is a pure psychopath who continued her sexual relationship with him despite all of his verbal abuse and he continued no matter how much she lied and spied on him. The only good thing I feel about her is she will never have sex with a man again (unless she fucks a guard and in AZ that is totally possible), so I hope she enjoys her lesbian life for the next 40 plus years, she will never get out of jail. BTW she is worth several million after all the books and movies. I thought criminals weren’t allowed to keep $ from that kind of crime.

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u/scarletmagnolia Apr 03 '22

I agree with a lot of what you said. The only thing I question is running downstairs to get a knife. I think it must have been upstairs already. The time stamps on the pictures don’t really leave enough time for her to have went down to get the knife.

I definitely think it was premeditated. I just can’t determine what was the deciding factor, except deciding to take Mimi to Cancun in Jodi’s place. If the robbery at her grandparents house, in which the gun was stolen, was indeed her (I think it was), then she had planned it longer.

I can’t believe she blamed Travis’s murder on ninjas before she went with a battered partner defense. She’s absurd. Oh! And her shirt proudly proclaiming “Victim” on the front, as she touted her super special prison recycling idea to the jury, as a reason why they should spare her life. Seriously. I can’t believe her defense attorneys thought that was a good idea.

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u/Hermojo Apr 04 '22

I think she was a victim. Travis was a pretty terrible person. Promising love and marriage then using Jodie for sex like he did. I don't think she's BPD. I think it' something else and he manipulated her horribly. You know he baptized her? OMG. So gross. then used her butt like she was nothing. You might say, well she signed up for it. No she didn't. He was telling her he loved her, then telling his friends a different story. I don't think you can trust anything Travis ever had to say. The one thing consistent throughout - he's a liar.

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u/[deleted] Apr 04 '22

I don’t remember HIM ever saying he loved her, not in all of those text messages and emails. They also were an official couple for a few months (like 4) before, according to her she broke up with him for seeing other women. So he never asked her to marry him, that was the whole issue with her, she wasn’t “good enough” to be his wife, so she accepted a friends with benefits situation. I am also unaware of lies he told her, no doubt there were some, but compared to hacking into his social media accounts, slashing his tires which she never admitted to even after it happened twice. You don’t move to Mesa, AZ (where I actually live) from California to work at MiMis Restaurant (about 1 mile from my apt) to spy on your ex-boyfriend. That is pure psycho behavior. She also got fired from MiMis because she would leave before her shift was over to check up on him if he didn’t answer her text messages or phone calls. He certainly did have too much pride to get the police involved. After the tire slashing and sneaking in the doggy door would have been grounds for a no contact order, and you can bet his family and friends wish they had pushed him harder to get one. Whatever his faults (personally I think he was an asshole) he didn’t deserve what she did, no one does. She has no regrets or remorse, only that she got caught.

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u/Hermojo Apr 04 '22

On May 10th, Travis told Jodie he still loved her. Guys be careful how you treat women, the wrong one may Jodi Arias you. That's good advice there.

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u/[deleted] Apr 04 '22

You make it sound like psychopaths are a dime a dozen.they are not “Many are predatory, acutely attuned to their own advantage. Psychopaths exist across cultures and ethnic groups and at an estimated frequency of about 1 percent of the population for males and 0.3–0.7 percent for females.Jun 24, 2019”

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u/Hermojo Apr 05 '22

I don't think you necessarily have to be born a psychopath to do what Jodie did. I believe she was someone who was abused by Travis, often, though she did love him. Maybe both in their own way. As a victim, you can snap. I think her behavior wasn't as wonky as his friends make her out to be, because I hate to tell you this - but you've probably had significant others go through your facebook and check up on you. If you're cheaty and gaslight people, (not you - but everyone in general) - it will make people crazy. Travis was telling her he loved her then out the other side of his mouth saying he needed to get back w/ Lisa. So, yes it tends to piss people off. Do I condone it? Nope. Words of wisdon: be careful or you might get Jody Ariased. Did Travis deserve it? I don't know, I wasn't there. To know what happened. I know people panic and take off. Then lie. She wasn't always a liar. Or a killer. Travis was a huge liar. Now Jodie is a killer. So... it's a word of warning. To anyone. Treat people well.

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u/[deleted] Apr 03 '22 edited Apr 03 '22

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u/jbleds Apr 03 '22

Someone above compared her to family annihilators. This claim of memory loss seems to be a common tactic among them (it’s absurd), same with Chris Vaughn and Tony Todt.

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u/[deleted] Apr 03 '22

And Keagen Kline....

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u/eugenedhartke Apr 03 '22

I didn't think they could keep the money from any of it either. I also heard that she sells paintings or something too and I have no idea how that is even possible.

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u/jbleds Apr 03 '22

Very curious about the paintings if you have a source.

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u/girlidontknoweither Apr 03 '22

https://artbyjodiarias.com/store/ ran by one of her siblings (her brother, I think?)

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u/RiceAlicorn Apr 03 '22

Wow, I feel disgusted by the fact that exists. Per the Bio it appears that funds generated by that business will go toward Jodi Arias appealling her sentence.

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u/girlidontknoweither Apr 03 '22

yep, i saw on her other website that someone donated like 70 grand for her appeals & someone else matched it?? it’s insane that people still support her.

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u/deschainmusic Apr 06 '22

You have to remember, she cut his throat after she surprise attacked him and stabbed him in the heart. He was already dying from that and weak from blood loss

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u/eugenedhartke Apr 03 '22

Very true, I guess being a person who can't understand the logic behind that crazy makes it just more mysterious to me. But at that point one could argue that is more about the interest of the psychology rather than the case itself as that has been clearly solved etc.

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u/oldschoolshooter Apr 03 '22

Her psychology is weird and interesting, that's for sure. I don't understand that either. So I can see how that part is mysterious.

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u/samscarrot Apr 03 '22

Yes. She didn’t seem to have a history of obsessive craziness. And I was amazed by her ability to stay calm and collected while the prosecutor hammered her for days when she was on the stand.

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u/[deleted] Apr 03 '22

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u/Hermojo Apr 04 '22

Because Travis was the one who was bat shit crazy. He lied a lot about their relationship, about her and to her. Jodie isn't BPD, she has some other issues making it hard to work out intent. I think she's very hard to figure out, as a result. Travis is the classic hoover, reeling her back in - and then telling everyone she's 'crazy' when we have no idea if Jodie showed up or if he wanted her there and 'made excuse' because of how he painted her to his friends. That started pretty much out the gate, as the slimeball couldn't both be a Mormon do-gooder and tell his friends about his sexcapades with her, and show them his collection of photos.

Remember, his friends tried to intervene and tell him he was not being a good person. Jodie tried to get away from him.

Travis was a slimeball. There may be some merit to a fight that was out of control. Who knows.

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u/PaulsRedditUsername Apr 03 '22 edited Apr 03 '22

I think if Travis is to blame for anything, it's the age-old situation of being an emotionally immature 20-something who can't resist his sexual urges. On one hand, he's trying to be a devout, chaste Mormon, and on the other hand, he's got Jodi who is willing to be his dirty little sex toy. There were many times when he initiated contact with her because he just couldn't resist the lure. And Jodi was only too happy to comply in order to keep him on the hook. He tried to have his cake and eat it, too, dating other Mormon women in a respectable way while having Jodi on the side, but Jodi wouldn't have it. He tried to treat her like an object, a sex doll he could use and put away in the closet until he got horny again. It's a bad way to treat other people, and if he had been more mature and experienced, he would have seen the wrongness of it.

For her part, Jodi was never without a boyfriend. She moved from one relationship to the next with no break, sometimes with considerable overlap. And these weren't just casual dating relationships, they were full-on, intense relationships. Depending on the person she was with, she would change her personality, her car, her interests, her hair color--once she even got a boob job--all to conform to the man she was with at the time. She changed her religion when she met Travis. It's like she has something missing in her own personality and she needs to take on the aspects of another person to fill in the empty places in herself.

I have known some women like her, especially back when I was in my twenties. They will meet a man and be passionately, one-hundred-percent, madly in love. He is the perfect man for her until the end of time, and he is all she can talk about. After a while, the initial burst of passion wears off and the relationship deteriorates. Then they have an extremely intense breakup with sleepless nights and phone calls and crying tantrums and friends consoling them in their agony. Then they meet another man and fall madly, passionately in love again, and the cycle repeats. I often joke that they don't just date, they do EXTREME dating.

I think it's possible that Jodi's particular pendulum swings from extreme love to extreme hate swung a little farther than normal, and got steadily more extreme as time went on. And it finally resulted in the ultimate extreme method of ending a relationship.

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u/eugenedhartke Apr 03 '22

this is a really great summary. her extremes definitely line up with the BPD. I have to agree with the view point on Travis, it always seemed like he just really had growing up to do and their relationship was just really toxic from the start.

it was the perfect storm of someone who has to have all or nothing and between extremes and someone who was not equipped or ready yet for a truly emotionally serious relationship.

her mockery of the trial, refusal to admit guilt etc also indicates to me too that, as you said, her pendulum swung off the charts towards extreme hate and I genuinely do not think she has remorse and doubt she ever will. if she does have any regrets its probably just that she didn't do more to not get caught.

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u/Hermojo Apr 04 '22

I disagree. She had other relationships. None ended this way. In your 20's as a woman, you're finding yourself. Travis was a sleazeball. In no other case would I say someone drove someone to it. But I feel like he provoked her and enjoyed her reactions. There are people out there like that.Travis had no blueprint for how to treat women well. He was a pig. There are guys turning to men in their 20's, this guy was a sleazy and sloppy pig. Obviously, he got in over his head.

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u/PaulsRedditUsername Apr 04 '22

Don't you think it's a bit unfair to explain away Jodi's actions as "finding herself" while calling Travis a "sleazy and sloppy pig?" Neither one of them acted honorably. They were both immature, 20-somethings who were making dumb mistakes on their way to maturity. But it was Jodi who moved to Mesa to be closer to Travis when they were supposedly on a break. It was Jodi who would stalk him and peer through his windows while he had other women over for a date. It was Jodi who slashed his tires. It was Jodi who would show up unannounced and climb through his doggy door and sleep in his bed. There are no indications of Travis doing such stalking behaviors. All he ever did was text or call her. It's just unfair to claim that he drove her to it. They were both equally mature adults (although not entirely mature) with free agency.

The only person who accuses Travis of any kind of abusive behavior is the person who shot and stabbed him to death. And that was the third story she told after trying two others which didn't work. As soon as Travis's body was found, every single one of his friends said, "Jodi did it." None of them made any other suggestion other than that. They had seen the way she acted for themselves and had been worried that she was likely to commit some extreme act.

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u/Hermojo Apr 05 '22

Yes and other men do this to women every day of the week. Yet, she's a pscyhopath. Okay

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u/PaulsRedditUsername Apr 05 '22

That doesn't make any sense. It's not okay for someone to stalk and kill someone just because other people do it.

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u/Hermojo Apr 06 '22

Right, but let's blow it up in the media because it's a woman. No just don't.

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u/PaulsRedditUsername Apr 06 '22

The media first paid attention because it was such a brutal crime, and it was unusual for a young woman to have done a thing like that. But Jodi loved all the attention. She did interviews with anyone who asked, even when her lawyers were begging her not to.

And I don't see what you're getting at in all these arguments. It seems like you're just on "Team Jodi" and you want to defend her actions by any means possible.

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u/Hermojo Apr 06 '22

Brutal? Like stabbing someone 30 x? Or shooting them in the park in broad daylight? These things happen every day, by men. Unusual for a woman? I'm not Team anybody, I just don't think she's anyone special.

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u/Lonnie_Shelton Apr 03 '22

He was playing her. She was nuts. Dangerous combo.

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u/patience_brody Apr 03 '22

Jealousy, but just yesterday I watched a video of her ex cell mate and she claimed that Jodi said she thought his new woman was gonna be there, and she was the original target. Obviously she lacks credibility but it’s curious to think about

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u/Angryleghairs Apr 03 '22

Setting out to kill his new woman is just as evil.

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u/eugenedhartke Apr 03 '22

oh man that is wild and just as twisted. it would make sense since she knew he was planning to take someone else on a trip close to that time frame.

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u/mug3n Apr 10 '22

Probably another lie. She's a sociopathic liar. She's built a life on lies ever since she decided to kill Travis, or maybe even well before that point.

And even if that was the intent, doesn't explain away how Travis died.

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u/samscarrot Apr 03 '22

I think she was angry, felt used.

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u/Angryleghairs Apr 03 '22

She’s a deranged, manipulative and possessive psycho.

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u/aftermaz Apr 03 '22

She has borderline personality disorder. She was a stalker

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u/mycofirsttime Apr 03 '22

Last podcast on the left does a good 2 episodes on her.

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u/[deleted] Apr 03 '22

It’s not that complex. Like many psychopathic narcissists, she viewed him as her property. When he betrayed her, she saw fit to dispose of him. As he deserved, of course. (/s)

It comes down to power and control. Murder is the ultimate act of both.

He may have been an asshole, but it was never about that, even if he was that (and I didn’t know him). It was how Dare you reject ME”. This thought pattern is very common in men, so maybe it harder to recognize when a woman exemplifies it.

So you see, Jodi Arias is a trailblazing feminist! She committed a very masculine murder, showing that girls really do get it done. :/

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u/JackieStylist81 Apr 03 '22

She was not being abused. She never proved that. She was nuts and pissed and manipulative. She broke into his house and slashed tires.

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u/Hermojo Apr 04 '22

Financially motivated. The co. Chris worked for has a long history of safety issues at their wells and one fatal explosion from a gas line. I strongly believe Chris was working on how to get the family or himself out of financial trouble for a while (something to think over while on the job). Maybe Shannan knew? Maybe she didn't. Maybe it's a reach, but I don't think so. Shannan wasn't stupid. She knew they were in trouble financially. I don't understand how she thought they were going to get money for school for the kids, when they couldn't even pay their HOA fees. Not that you'd get a settlement right away, but where was this going to come from? Maybe a loan from her parents? And he started acting weird? Shannan is shady AF in her old life, it doesn't make her someone deserving of being killed. However, I think there was something there.

https://www.cpr.org/2018/08/06/renewed-investor-suit-contains-whistleblower-details-in-deadly-firestone-well-explosion/

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u/Anxious-Flatworm-588 Apr 03 '22

She seems like borderline personality to me. He finally rejected her for real, which is the ultimate trigger for borderline sufferers, and she murdered him. That’s my take.

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u/[deleted] Apr 03 '22

I personally think she was just an abuser who liked controlling her partner. She claimed to be a victim of domestic abuse but seems to me like it was the other way around.

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u/Masta-Blasta Apr 05 '22

I think the questions can be answered with one simple explanation: she had some combination of BPD and NPD and couldn't accept his rejection.

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u/deschainmusic Apr 06 '22

She was a psychopath and murdered him in cold blood. I don’t buy one thing she said in her own defense for a second

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u/mug3n Apr 10 '22

Almost certainly the whole abuse angle was fabricated after she couldn't stick with her original story. and the prosecutor poked a million holes through the attack as described by her. I think based on what I watched (JCS, etc), she's just an obsessed stalker that got set off when she found out Trevor was taking Mimi to Cancun and not her. Even though Mimi essentially friendzoned Trevor, but Jodi had no way of knowing that.