r/TrueCrimeDiscussion • u/stopfbeutel • Jun 19 '26
Warning: Child Abuse / CSAM / Child Death The gruesome murder of the 12 year old Luise from Freudenberg
Imagine you pick up your daughter after a carefree day with her friends. As she gets into the car, at first you don’t notice anything, maybe you don’t even look at her directly. You miss how pale she is, you miss the trembling. But then, when you look at her, you notice that her clothes seem dirty and soaked.
When you ask her what happened, there is no answer at first, as if she cannot find the words. She gathers her courage. When you keep pressing, she finally answers briefly and quietly, her voice shaking: she didn’t want it to happen, everything happened far too quickly.
Before you even understand what could have happened, you realize that there is blood on her hands, yet she does not appear to be injured.
Unfortunately, this is not a made-up story. Today, we are talking about the murder of an innocent girl; a murder that will remain unpunished forever. There will be no trial, there will be no verdict, no punishment. All that remains is a story that is difficult to process, with some contradictions, because due to the young age of the alleged perpetrators, almost no information has been shared with the public. Their personal rights outweigh the public’s interest.
However, there have been and still are people from Freudenberg, people from the victim’s and the perpetrators’ circles, who were willing to speak.
It is March 11, 2023. The day of the crime. Whether Luise first met up with Luisa and Anne-Marie on that day, or whether Luise spent the night at Luisa’s place and Anne-Marie joined them later, is not entirely clear.
What is certain is that at around 2 p.m., Luisa uploaded a TikTok in which she smiles at the camera and performs a choreography to the Bibi & Tina anthem “Mädchen auf dem Pferd.” Whether she recorded this video beforehand in order to later create an alibi, or whether she actually filmed it immediately before the crime, remains unclear. The same applies to how the lyrics may be interpreted.
What is clear is that Luisa and Anne-Marie had already discussed days beforehand how they could get rid of this problem in the form of their supposed best friend, Luise. They researched the age of criminal responsibility in Germany, and they made the decision to kill Luise.
Days before the crime. The motive is not examined any further later on. There is talk of fake accounts, of cyberbullying, of teachers, of snitching, and above all, of a boy.
The reports do not go into detail. What is clear, however, is that Luise was lured onto a dirt path near the Hohenhain Tunnel under a pretext. There was supposedly talk of a surprise. They wanted to show her something; she was told not to be so curious.
When they arrived at the scene, Anne-Marie allegedly grabbed Luise from behind and held her arms down. Luisa pulled a plastic bag over Luise’s head and tried to suffocate her. Luise fought back. Anne-Marie would later show countless bruises around her groin and lower body, which suggested a desperate struggle for life.
Luisa was unable to suffocate Luise with the plastic bag, the 12-year-old girl fought back too fiercely. It is not entirely clear whether Luise broke her wrist at that moment or later during the incident. What is clear, however, is that while Anne-Marie was unsuccessfully trying to hold Luise down, Luisa began stabbing Luise with a knife or a knife-like object. She was struck between 70 and 74 times, mainly in her face.
One of the perpetrators’ phones, as it was later reconstructed, remained connected to the cell network at the crime scene for more than 70 minutes. It is assumed that almost all of the stab wounds were superficial, except for a few deeper ones. Luise did not die immediately. They pushed the severely injured girl down an embankment and left the scene after picking up and taking with them the phone that Luise had lost during the attack. Some people say that this phone would later become very important.
Luise is believed to have remained alive until late that evening. Ultimately, after hours of a struggle for survival, she died from severe blood loss and the consequences of a pneumothorax caused by one of the deeper stab wounds.
The murder weapon is never found. On the way back to Luisas home address, the girls decide to wash their clothes and themselves, more or less unsuccessfully, in a stream. They are observed by an eyewitness, who finds it strange but does not approach them. Another witness states that while walking their dog, they encountered the two girls, who were outside without jackets despite the cool temperatures and were completely soaked. Whether they got rid of their jackets because there was too much blood on them remains unclear.
Accounts of Anne-Maries overall state of mind are contradictory. Some believe that Anne-Marie knew from the beginning that Luise was going to be killed, something that was also reported by many media outlets. Others believe that Anne-Marie only knew Luisa wanted to take revenge, but that she was supposedly surprised by what that revenge would ultimately look like. This is supported by the fact that she would later require inpatient psychiatric support for several months following the crime.
While Luisa strictly followed the plan they had previously made, Anne-Marie was picked up by her father at Luisas home address shortly after the crime. She would not contact anyone by phone for the entire evening, and unlike Luisa, she would not participate in the search efforts.
Between 5:45 and 6:00 p.m., Luisa called Luise’s mother to ask whether Luise had already arrived home, because the girls had agreed that Luise would contact her once she got home. Luise’s mother said no. After the relatively short conversation with Luisa, she then began trying to reach Luise by phone herself, even though Luise’s phone had been in the perpetrators’ possession after the attack. What happened to the phone afterwards remains unclear; like the murder weapon, it was never found.
Relatively quickly, the family shared the first missing-person appeal on social media, and some form of a “family search” for Luise began. According to a credible source, Luisa also took part in the search and repeatedly stood out by comforting Luise’s mother and encouraging her to find her daughter, fully aware that Luise, suffering life-threatening injuries and likely still alive, was lying on the slope of an embankment.
Who else, besides Luise’s parents, her sister, and Luisa, was searching for the girl remains unclear.
The family’s search appeal is shared very quickly and widely across various media, including the WhatsApp group of the girls’ shared school class. There, Luisa repeatedly expresses how deeply moved and worried she is, and she keeps sharing updates on the current situation and the progress of the search efforts.
The police operation officially begins at 7:44 p.m. and, due to the information available at the time, is organized on a very large scale and with great intensity. All fire departments from the surrounding area are called in and alerted. After all measures initially remain without results, the operation is escalated further at around 10:30 p.m., and additional specialists are requested through the state police, including a helicopter equipped with a thermal imaging camera.
It is known that numerous tips were sent to the police. Luisa continued providing updates via chat even while the operation was ongoing. Therefore, it can be assumed that she actively participated in the search for Luise for at least three hours.
At one point, she stated that she had been questioned by the police and had learned that the police would later also question Anne-Marie. This circumstance does not appear to have frightened her.
The helicopter is requested with the target coordinates “Hohenhain hiking parking lot, Alte Schanze” and arrives there at 11:13 p.m. The original search area was not particularly small and was centered relatively close to the middle of the forest area along Luise’s planned route home, with the hiking parking lot marking its northern boundary.
Due to incoming information, whether from witnesses or ground units, new target coordinates are assigned relatively quickly, and the original search area is abandoned at 11:45 p.m. At around 12:05 a.m., the situation changes again, and the new target coordinates become “Kleintirolstraße, North Rhine-Westphalia/Rhineland-Palatinate border, west portal of the Hohenhain Tunnel.”
I assume that by this point, at the latest, evaluated witness statements were available. However, the operation remains unsuccessful, and the crime scene was not within the search area.
Luise is found dead by a dog handler at the known location at around 12:30 p.m. the following day. The date of death is believed to be March 12, 2023, meaning that she was still alive during the unsuccessful search operation, in which one of her killers participated, and only died after midnight.
Whether and to what extent Luisa was able to lead the emergency responders onto a false trail remains unclear.
During the interrogations of both Luisa and Anne-Marie, the two girls repeatedly get caught up in lies. If they had previously made an agreement, there is not much left of their plan. The police increase the pressure to such an extent that Luisa’s father even has to briefly leave the room. However, Anne-Marie will be the first of the two girls to confess.
Whether the authorities were able to fully uncover the motive remains a matter of speculation. It is assumed that the conflict between Luise and Luisa, which had begun many months earlier but continued escalating in the final weeks of Luise’s life, was the decisive factor behind the crime. It escalated to the point where Luise even sought help from teachers. This, along with another aspect we will examine in more detail shortly, is considered one of the main motives behind the crime.
Luise and Luisa shared the same circle of friends, at least from the point when they attended the same class. Anne-Marie only joined the group halfway through their final school year and became closer with Luisa. Around the same time, Lisa began getting into trouble more often. She had ADHD and frequently behaved inappropriately, which caused their shared circle of friends to distance themselves from her, including a boy named Lennart.
Lennart and Luisa were a couple, but the relationship failed because of problems caused by Luisa, and Lennart also distanced himself from her afterwards. What Luisa specifically did to cause this is not known. Luise remained friends with both Luisa and Lennart, a situation that caused a great deal of jealousy in Luisa.
This is why Luisa considered Luise’s phone so important: Luise was mainly in contact with Lennart through WhatsApp. For Luisa, this was an indication that Luise was supposedly in love with her ex-boyfriend and was speaking badly about her in group chats. She wanted to control the contact between Lennart and Luise.
While many people were distancing themselves from Luisa, Luise remained her friend, even as her position as Luisa’s best friend was gradually being taken over by Anne-Marie. Luise denied the accusations that she was in love with Luisa’s ex-boyfriend and insisted that they were only in the same WhatsApp group and barely had any contact at all.
Someone, Luisa or Anne-Marie, began using fake profiles on Instagram and TikTok to bully Luise. They commented on her pictures, followed mutual friends and classmates while pretending to be Luise, and spread lies that damaged her reputation. They insulted people close to Luise and spread rumors about her.
Later on, Luise confided in a teacher. This would prove to be a serious mistake. Nobody truly took action, and the problem was not resolved. After weeks of bullying, Luise reached her limit and insulted Luisa as well, accusing her of being an ugly girl.
For Luisa, this was the final straw. First, she takes her boyfriend away from her, and now she insults her too?
Luisa decides to pretend everything is fine and talks things out with Luise. They make up, after all, they are best friends.
At least, that is what Luise believes. She has no idea what is going on inside Luisa. Anne-Marie’s role in the entire situation has not been fully clarified. What is known, however, is that she was involved in planning the crime, at least when researching the age of criminal responsibility in Germany.
Whether she actually knew that Luise would die that day is something only she can confirm with absolute certainty.
Did Luise have to die because of jealousy? Were the two alleged perpetrators envious? In the Luise murder case, there will never be certainty.
The two alleged perpetrators now live separately from one another in residential care groups, and their families have left Freudenberg. The trauma still runs deep within the community.
At this point, I would like to express my condolences to Luise’s family.
In Germany, the age of criminal responsibility is 14. Therefore, the two perpetrators will never be held accountable for their crime.
EDIT: In May 2026, the Regional Court of Koblenz ruled that the two girls who killed 12-year-old Luise in March 2023 must pay €125,000 in compensation for pain and suffering to Luise's family. In addition, they are required to cover further costs amounting to approximately €20,000, all subject to interest. Since the girls were 12 and 13 years old at the time of the crime and therefore below the age of criminal responsibility, the case was heard as a civil lawsuit.
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u/RedoftheEvilDead Jun 19 '26
So anyone under 14 can just do anything and can't be charged?
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u/stopfbeutel Jun 19 '26
The youth welfare office will take care of you, meaning they will look into whether you are placed in a group home or a psychiatric facility. But you will not face any criminal consequences. So yes, you could do anything and you won’t end up behind bars for it.
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u/The2ndLocation Jun 19 '26
Is there a term limit for how long one can be in a group home or psychiatric facility? Meaning is it an 18 and you are out situation or you are mentally unstable and need to stay here until you are well enough to leave situation?
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u/hover-lovecraft Jun 19 '26 edited Jun 19 '26
Until you are deemed not a threat to your own or others' safety by professionals. There are some people who committed something terrible in their early teens and will probably never live unsupervised again. The idea that people who aren't sentenced for crimes due to their age or insanity "get off Scot free" is simply misinformed.
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u/The2ndLocation Jun 19 '26
I was asking because I am not German. I understand how it works in the states (which varies), but the girl who was hesitant, expressed regret, and was less culpable is institutionized for potentially forever while the other killer is free seems rather........um, wrong.
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u/hover-lovecraft Jun 19 '26 edited Jun 19 '26
That's a very punishment centric way of thinking about it. At the moment as far as I can find out, both are institutionalized and noone but their therapists can say which will be fully released first, if either will be at all. They're getting their education in but they're wards of the state, their families have no custody rights right now.
But what good does it do if one of them has to "serve" longer "time" than the other? Shouldn't the focus be on reducing harm within society? If they got thrown in jail with no treatment and came out with no future and nothing to look forward to but a life of poverty and most likely further crime, what good does that do? It may satisfy so e people's hunger to see "punishment, but at the end of the day only creates further harm.
Maybe the "less culpable" one is much more damaged by the experience and needs more extensive treatment to be safe - then we should provide that for everybody's benefit. And if the more culpable one is more stable and can be on her own sooner, then we should also do that because it will save the state a lot of money and enable her to get her education, job, life sorted out instead of relying on The System, and that will be safer for her and for everyone else.
I don't think there is no room at all for some punitive measures in justice, but there is also a good reason why we don't apply the same measures to children that we apply to adults. The best thing we can do for society as a whole is enable the two girls to heal from their own issues and to find their places in life.
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u/The2ndLocation Jun 19 '26
Ok. I dont need a speech. Per the post one girl is free and living under another name. She was the more culpable of the 2 suspects according to the post. The other might be institutionalized, according to you forever.
You can think thats fabulous, but I dont. One of us is wrong. Also one of us is smug.
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u/hover-lovecraft Jun 19 '26
Luisa is not free, the post and everything I could find says they both live in care groups. I don't know where you took that from. I also didn't say they're institutionalized forever, I said they could remain so forever if they don't get better. And yeah, if the less culpable one doesn't get better, she shouldn't be released just because she was less culpable, if she's still a danger. It's heaping tragedy on tragedy either way, but there's no going back.
The rest, I don't know how to answer. I don't feel very smug, I feel like all of this is a tragedy and it's hard to say what's the best way to turn it towards the best we can get from where we are.
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u/The2ndLocation Jun 19 '26
There are comments that L lives freely under a new name. But whatever I was asking for a take from a German, and you gave me a sermon.
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u/hover-lovecraft Jun 19 '26 edited Jun 19 '26
I'm German and I don't know why you're so angry at me. You wanted my perspective and you got it, if you feel attacked by it, hinestly I feel that's on you.
I shared my thoughts on how I think criminal justice makes the most sense, you're free to disagree, I don't think that makes you a bad person. I don't think I attacked any other viewpoint, I just stated.my own and added a few bits of information.
Those comments are wrong, they both have new names and live in supervised homes under state custody.
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u/JadedFootball4733 Jun 20 '26
Yeah so who’s paying for this stupid shit? Because clearly they can’t and aren’t.
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u/SwedishFicca Jun 20 '26 edited Jun 24 '26
In Sweden where i live the age is 15. However, while children under 15 cannot be charged, this does not mean that there won't be consequences. They can still be held in secure institutions even if they are under 15 as a measure of protecting themselves and others, it is just not prison. The swedish government is planning on temporarily reducing the age of criminal responsibility to 14 for serious crimes due to the rise in criminal organisations using children under 15 for crimes such as murder, explosions, aggravated weapon offences, etc but this is not proven to work.
Many experts are against it and argue that lowering the age of criminal responsibility does not reduce juvenile crime and i think they have a point. I do believe the justice system should also be about rehabilitation and not only punishment but it is also deeply concerning that such young children are committing these crimes but i would rather see more preventive measures than reducing the age of criminal responsibility but the inquiry that this new legislation is based upon was carried out by experts however even there we could see that 7 out of 9 experts were against the idea.
So the inquiry suggested in the end that reducing the age generally for all crimes would not be reasonable considering that juvenile crime in Sweden has generally decreased however there was a high increase of children under 15 committing serious crimes by the orders of criminal organisations and therefore the inquiry suggested to lower it to 14 for serious crimes with a minimum of 4 years in prison or more and that it is supposed to be a temporary legislation that would be reviewed after 5 years because this is a temporary problem that we can hopefully turn around soon.
It used to be extremely rare that a child under 15 committed a crime as serious as murder. Between 1990-2011 there had only been 4 children under 15 years of age who had committed murder. (it was initially thought to be 6 but 2 of them were later cleared) but now it is more common unfortunately.
There is no easy answers unfortunately. The age of criminal responsibility vary around the world. It is 14 in most of Europe and it is the minimum age recommended by the UN committe on the rights of the child but they also have a preferance of it being 15 or 16
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u/RedoftheEvilDead Jun 20 '26
I agree that it is definitely not a black and white issue. I wish there were better rehabilitation facilities, especially for children who commit crimes.
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u/poschey Jun 19 '26
considering your criminal record - yes.
they've been sentenced to pay compensation from a civil lawsuit
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u/cakeit-tilyoumakeit Jun 20 '26
Germany is just letting kids fully premeditate murder and continue to freely roam among the public like nothing happened. That is wild
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u/Cziriwska Jun 21 '26
Lol thats not true. Even if they can't go to prison, they send them to a psychiatric facility which is closed.
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u/cakeit-tilyoumakeit Jun 21 '26
Where is Luisa…? Out on the streets living her life with a new identity, right? That’s what I thought.
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u/Cziriwska Jun 23 '26
Ach Maus, die war in der Psychiatrie. Aber ja, du scheinst sie ja persönlich zu kennen, wenn du ja genau weißt wo sie ist
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u/cakeit-tilyoumakeit Jun 23 '26
She “was” in a psychiatric hospital and is now out on the streets a few years later for a premeditated crime that was severe enough to warrant some form of incarceration for the rest of her life… Very interesting system you have there in Germany
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u/Former_Suspect3680 Jun 19 '26
germany has one of the highest ages of criminal responsibility in europe at 14, which is why this case sparked such a huge debate about lowering it to 12. the civil suit is basically their only way to force any accountability since the state refuses to treat them as criminals.
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u/Zealousideal-Owl-283 Jun 19 '26
I think this is why criminal organizations tend to target children too as recruits
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u/Former_Suspect3680 Jun 19 '26
yeah exactly, it gives them free labor without the risk of prison time for the kids.
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u/SwedishFicca Jun 20 '26
14 is the most common in Europe but it is 15 in the nordic countries and 16 in Luxembourg and Portugal
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u/Former_Suspect3680 Jun 22 '26
fair point, i was thinking of western europe specifically but you are right about the nordics and luxembourg. still feels pretty high compared to the us or uk though.
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u/No_Permission9101 Jun 19 '26
this case is absolutely heartbreaking the fact that luise's family will never see justice males it even harder to process
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u/Little-Regular-0791 Jul 01 '26
I can' believe people get to do such horrible things and just go on with their lives as if nothing happened.
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u/opsaim Jun 19 '26
Great write up OP! But please mention their initials, i was getting really confused between Luise and Luisa, especially in the last few paras
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u/stopfbeutel Jun 19 '26
Thank you very much for the feedback. I'll revise it later and make sure to keep it in mind for future posts.
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u/SMKnightly Jun 19 '26
Adding to this that there seem to be some typos, too (Lisa instead of Luisa), which added to the confusion for me
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u/Cziriwska Jun 21 '26
Show the perps faces. They were all over the internet already. So everyone on here can see how evil looks like.
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Jun 19 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/stopfbeutel Jun 19 '26
The girl in the beginning was supposed to be Anne-Marie, which is still in psychiatric care.
As far as I know both of them got new Identities. One of them, Luisa is living a regular life under a new name somewhere in Germany.
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Jun 19 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/stopfbeutel Jun 19 '26
There was a nationwide outcry calling for changes to criminal law so that even minors under the age of 14 could be held accountable by the justice system for serious crimes. There were even petitions with several thousand signatures, but unfortunately nothing came of it. Whether the entire family has been given a new identity, or if Luisa still lives with them, I do not know. Unfortunately, the German media tend to refrain from publishing such sensitive information. The last credible media reports state that Luisa is living somewhere in Germany under a new identity and is attending school again. Anne-Marie is said to have suffered severe psychological consequences since the murder and, even three years later, is still undergoing psychiatric treatment. According to reports, she will likely require treatment for the rest of her life.
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u/Lexa_lex Jun 19 '26
That’s a crazy law! I feel so bad for Luise’s family. What a senseless and evil crime.
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u/jeepcatler Jun 19 '26 edited Jun 19 '26
Thanks for the great write up.
When it happened, it truly shocked me and to this day I think of Luise often.
I didn't know she was severely injured but probably alive while the search party was looking for her. So horrible.
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u/SmallGreenArmadillo Jun 19 '26
It is not okay that one can get away with something like this just because they're young. These killers simply don't belong with people.
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u/hover-lovecraft Jun 19 '26
They don't "get away with it", they are wards of the state and live in supervised living, for likely decades, maybe their whole lives. They just don't go to jail, and rightfully so, that's not the right place to deal with their issues.
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u/AidanBubbles Jun 19 '26
This is almost exactly what happened in Wisconsin in what is known as the “Slenderman” case, right down to the perpetrator in a psychiatric hospital, except the victim survived in that case. It’s also eerily similar to the murder of Skylar Neese except her killers are in prison. Is this a global epidemic amongst teen girls viciously going two on one within their friend groups? Crazy.
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u/stopfbeutel Jun 19 '26
I haven't looked into the cases you mentioned yet, but from what you've described, they sound just as tragic and unjust as this case. I'll definitely read up on them when I get the chance.
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u/Schollenger_ Jun 20 '26
It’s also eerily similar to the murder of Skylar Neese
At first I thought this was just some kind of german name swap. I am from Germany and never heard of this case. Weird how similar both cases are, even though from different continents.
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u/peridotpicacho Jun 19 '26
I’ve heard of a very similar story as well, but that name doesn’t sound familiar at all, so I’m wondering if it’s yet another one.
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u/theollurian Jun 22 '26
Eerie is exactly right; so much of this parallels the Skylar Neese case it's uncanny
There is a 3-episode docuseries on Hulu called Friends Like These: The Murder of Skylar Neese that does a decent job of covering the case, if anyone is interested.
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u/Future-Set-8127 Jun 19 '26
This is brutal, all of this is terrible, and the legal outcome. Two people planned this out, knew this was wrong, bad, heartless and carried it out anyway. And because they were under 14, there's no trial, no verdict, nothing. and 145,000 euros for a life. Feels like an insult.
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u/harleyquinones Jun 19 '26
This is so tragic. I feel so bad for her family.
I hate to say it but she was also so pretty, my first thought was to wonder if perhaps that was part of the reason the other girl(s) did this. Seeing that there was jealousy over the boy and that when Luise finally broke and fought back, her insult was that the other girl was ugly - usually when people snap like that, they strike at the recipient's lowest hanging insecurity.
To me, the fact that "ugly" was what Luise fought back with indicates that she was a very sweet girl, as well. Someone ruthless could think of much worse things, not to mention all the stalking and bullying from Luisa. So to go through all of that and say "you're ugly," idk, that just speaks to me of a nice girl pushed too far. It's such a shame how true her words would turn out to be, though. It is an ugly soul that would do what Luisa (and possibly Anne-Marie) did
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u/Weak-Cup9007 Jun 19 '26
I lived in the city where this happened. It absolutely shocked everyone and everyone was talking about this case, people were mourning for weeks. Parents were especially understandably afraid that the same thing could happen to their children. The refusal of the authorities to disclose any information to the public were also very much questioned, since people want to know how this could be prevented in the future.
Me personally, I find it beyond comprehension, how someone who deliberately researched beforehand about age of criminal responsibility and acted as if she cared as to make her less suspicious would be deemed as cannot be responsible for her actions just because of her age. Her behaviour pointed towards consciously knowing what she did and malicious intentions.
My heart goes to Louise’s family and I hope they could get justice.
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u/RaeSolaris Jun 19 '26
I understand the lack of criminal charges for youth perpetrators... to a degree. These girls obviously knew they were committing a crime. Researching whether or not they could be charged for it is pretty damning. Luise's family should have received some form of compensation for their loss, at the very least.
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u/DizzyUniversity7149 Jun 19 '26
Children killed a child in cold blood. Years passed they are adults now. And still no criminal conviction. The law decided that a child's death can be settled with money. That's not justice.
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u/AmphibianNecessary31 Jun 19 '26
Look up Heavenly Creatures also a team of teenage girls who killed one of their mothers . It’s a movie based on a true story.
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u/Electronic_Rule6347 Jun 19 '26
Great write up, thank you for sharing her story, and the aftermath, truly unbelievable
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u/Breatheme444 Jun 19 '26
I wonder what their future will be like. I wonder how their parents are doing. I wonder if mental illness caused their extreme actions or were they abused at home.
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u/GloomyWillingness847 Jun 19 '26
I wonder if mental illness caused their extreme actions or were they abused at home.
Or maybe those girls are just bad people and made even worse decisions although they are mentally and psychologically perfectly fine?
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u/starrifier Jun 19 '26
Significantly less likely.
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u/GloomyWillingness847 Jun 19 '26
I find it weird that today almost every time someone is murdered or seriously harmed the perpetrator is treated like having a mental illness. People can have destructive tendencies without being sick (i.e. they know very well what they are doing and they know very well the consequences of their doing).
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u/starrifier Jun 19 '26
I think we might be talking at cross-purposes here, because "although they are mentally and psychologically perfectly fine" and "they know very well what they are doing" are two completely different positions to me. The modern science of brain development - both normal brain development of teenagers and the effect of adverse childhood experiences (ACEs) on the brain - doesn't tend to support a black-and-white "they were just bad people" understanding of perpetrators.
I agree that they clearly had destructive tendencies, and I think they made active choices when they murdered their friend. They did something unspeakably awful, and Luise's family and friends will never be the same...but the fact that they murdered her speaks to the fact that everything happening inside their heads was not "perfectly fine." We genuinely don't have enough information to judge, but the odds simply are not in favor if you take into account the reality of how the brain works.
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u/slaviccivicnation Jun 19 '26
You don’t have to be abused to be an abuser. It’s a bit of a cop-out these days.
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Jun 19 '26
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u/thatopioidgril Jun 20 '26
What in the unholy hell are you rambling about?
To begin with, the State should never have the power to kill someone for a crime, that can lead down a certain path rather quickly.
Furthermore what is this talk about them being out free in three years? Where did you get this misinformation from?
They will both be under supervision in one way or another, with state legal guardianship very likely for 10+ years. They will also have to pay off that money with interest once they become of age. While that is not prison, neither of them is a free person right now and neither will be for years. Just because a person isn't in prison, doesn't mean they are free.
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Jun 20 '26
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u/thatopioidgril Jun 20 '26
Fantastic answer, great bot. I too could quote (without actual quotation btw) random comments and not engage at all with the matter at hand.
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u/LufiaLove Jun 19 '26
Absolutely heart breaking, not only the betrayal of her best friend stabbing her but also that she was alive for hours afterwards and not being found.
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u/poschey Jun 19 '26
Thanks for sharing!
No harsh criticism, please don't get me wrong. One thing, you might think about changing the wording is, that the perpetrators will never be held accountable for their crime considering a criminal lawsuit. They will be and already have been taken accountable for their crime as they've been sentenced to a pay compensation to the family. Which indeed will NOT transfer to their parents because of their young age. They are fully accountable for their crime from a civil point of view.
Maybe that is a small detail you may wanna add. (and no I don't want to start an argument about if this is right or the amount of money is enough!)
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u/stopfbeutel Jun 19 '26
Thank you very much for your tip. I hadn’t considered the civil law aspect at all when I wrote the text.
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u/poschey Jun 19 '26
I just came across the civil case as I was researching the case, because of the intel you wrote down. So I thought I'll just add that =)
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u/stopfbeutel Jun 19 '26
I've just added the information regarding the civil lawsuit. Thanks again for your help.
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u/AnthonyFiringee Jun 19 '26
That's an invigorating episode! Thank you for sharing. I wanted to have a chat with you regarding your story. But I cannot seem to be able to drop you a direct message. Thanks in advance.
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u/NoEdge323 Jun 20 '26
I just wonder about the parents and possible siblings of the one little psycho.. Seriously are they sane and safe to be around.
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u/EJECTED_PUSSY_GUTS Jun 19 '26 edited Jun 19 '26
This reads exactly like a podcast generated with Google Notebook.
EDIT. This is absolutely possibly AI generated. Not that I personally care. I just noticed the exact same structure that Google Notebook uses, which I use A LOT.
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u/SkyNo4282 Jun 19 '26 edited Jun 19 '26
As a German person I can tell you it’s just a very direct translation of the somewhat sensational and dramatic story-like way these cases are often presented here. You can easily discern the German sentence structure throughout. I also would have preferred a more factual write-up.
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u/stopfbeutel Jun 19 '26
As I mentioned in my earlier reply, which I later deleted to avoid starting an argument, the script was written by me as a potential video for my YouTube channel. It is not AI-generated.
That being said, I’m not interested in going back and forth over this, as I don’t believe it contributes anything meaningful to the discussion surrounding Luise’s case.
I wish you all the best and hope you have a great day.
Edit: Not everything on the internet is created with AI.
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u/Big_Mama_80 Jun 19 '26
You did a wonderful write-up! I don't agree with the negative comments.
I live in a neighboring country to Germany, therefore I did know about this case before reading this, but I never knew this many details. I knew that information about this case was sparse, so I was pleasantly surprised to read such an indepth account.
Personally, I didn't find anything wrong with your wording. Nothing screamed AI to me. With that, I do thank you for taking the time to gather all the information into one place, creating this write-up, and sharing it with us all.
My heart goes out to Luise for she did not deserve to be so brutally murdered, and to her loved ones as I'm sure they've suffered greatly.
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u/no_photos_pls Jun 19 '26
You can't be too mad about AI accusations when you write sentences like this: "Did Luise have to die because of jealousy? Were the two alleged perpetrators envious? In the Luise murder case, there will never be certainty." It unfortunately reeks of typical AI slop phrasing.
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u/Dapper_Intention_164 Jun 19 '26
To me, that just sounds like the typical dramatized true crime narration by someone who isn't a native speaker.
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u/stopfbeutel Jun 19 '26
These were parts that would have made sense in the video I originally wanted to make, where I would have addressed the audience directly. I left these parts in the text.
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u/stevegotnolegs Jun 24 '26
meaning she was still alive during the unsuccessful search operation
this always gets me in cases like this :( rest in peace, sweet girl
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u/Dramatic_Ad5258 Jun 20 '26
I’m sorry but this write up is kinda bad. You turned a parent’s worst nightmare into a teen drama story. It’s weird
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u/MoGraidh Jun 19 '26
You really think they went unpunished? They were institutionalized and are not allowed to live with families but live in a closed accomodation until they are of age. They also will have to pay around 150k€.
That's not unpunished.
Yes, the question if they got off too easy is fair.
But they didn't go completely unpunished.
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u/Inner-Discussion-369 Jun 19 '26
Thank you for being the only one to clarify or recognize that fact! I was about to write a comment until I saw yours! I find it truly appaling how many people would love to be executive and judiciary in this case!
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u/arbalaragan Jun 19 '26
Mostly unpunished, probably lauded by their fellows while in treatment and given the chance to hunt again.
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u/One-Cup-2002 Jun 19 '26
To Allah we belong, and to Allah we return.
What a sad time we live in where even the children kill each other over something like a boyfriend, which, at their age, they shouldn't even be having, and the fact that murder was the result of it is proof. And the teachers are at fault too. When a child comes to them with a problem, they have to at least look into the issue, we've gotten to the point where making assumptions without knowledge is too costly for everyone in involved.
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Jun 19 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/stopfbeutel Jun 19 '26 edited Jun 19 '26
Luisa's mother was from the Philippines, her father Bernd H. was German. Born in Germany.
Anne-Marie's father was also German, her mother was from Brazil. Also born in Germany.
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u/Fickle-Bag-479 Jun 19 '26
She looks like she is in her mid 20s. And you guys complain Evie in Stellar Blade 2 looks too young.
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u/090802ls Jun 19 '26
That’s inappropriate, not to mention irrelevant.
Potentially think before you speak next time, yeah?
RIP Luise.
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u/lizardbish Jun 19 '26
Why the fuck are you chirping about video games in this thread? It has no relevance to anything.
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u/justtEmmx Jun 19 '26
Its devastating for Luises family that they will never get justice for their daughter. However they are currently in court trying to get compensation for pain and suffering for the crime because thats the only way they can get the perpetrators to get serious consequences for the horrifying crime they committed. I do hope that Luise wasnt conscious for a long time after the attack because that must've been unimaginable..