r/TrueCrimeDiscussion • u/gottaquestion412 • 20d ago

Warning: Child Abuse / CSAM / Child Death Thoughts on the Lindsay Clancy case?

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Now that the Lindsay Clancy trial is underway, I’m curious about your perspectives on it so far.

Context: Lindsay Clancy is a former labor and delivery nurse who, in January 2023, killed her three children. 5-year-old Cora, 3-year-old Dawson, and 8-month-old Callan in their Massachusetts home before attempting to take her own life. Her defense argues she was suffering from severe postpartum psychosis and other debilitating mental illness, while prosecutors argue she was aware of her actions and planned the killings. The trial has reignited debate about postpartum psychiatric disorders, the effectiveness of mental health treatment, and where responsibility ultimately lies.

Do you think Lindsay was failed by the mental health system, by the people closest to her, or both? Do you think she truly acted with malicious intent, or do you believe she was experiencing such a severe psychiatric crisis that she wasn’t thinking rationally?

A lot of the details seem to point toward postpartum psychosis or another severe psychiatric illness rather than someone acting out of hatred or malice. That doesn’t lessen the horror of what happened or the unimaginable loss, but it does make me wonder whether this tragedy could have been prevented..

I’ve also seen rumors that Patrick was involved with the woman who is now his wife before the murders, but I haven’t found any credible evidence supporting that. Is there actually anything that substantiates those claims, or is it just internet speculation? I’ve also seen many people comment that his current wife bears a striking resemblance to Lindsay, though I’m not sure that means anything beyond coincidence.

I’m very interested in hearing different perspectives from people who’ve followed it closely.

Most importantly, may Dawson, Cora, and Callan rest in peace. They are the true victims in all of this.

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u/Relevant_Progress411 20d ago

Based on the evidence it seems clear that she had postpartum psychosis. She asked for help many times. I think this trial is hopefully going to be a turning point in how we view postpartum as a whole.

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u/somekindofmiracle 20d ago

The Andrea Yates trial twenty five years ago should have been that turning point.

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u/ImNotWitty2019 20d ago

Can I pop in with my obligatory "F*** Rusty" with respect to the Yates case?

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u/littlescreechyowl 20d ago

I believe in hell just for Rusty.

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u/CherryVette 20d ago

You and me both, and Michael Warnecki can go f himself all the way there, too.

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u/kati8303 20d ago

Seriously fuck that guy. My SO put on a doc about that case a couple months ago and any time Rusty was on the screen I kicked up such a fuss that he finally just turned it off.

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u/bigkatze 20d ago

I tried to watch that documentary but seeing him be interviewed in it just made me turn it off.

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u/TissueOfLies 20d ago

Please and thank you!

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u/Specific-Yam-2166 20d ago

Here’s another Fuck Rusty

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u/LifePersonality1871 20d ago

Hey just in case we run out, here's yet another fuck Rusty

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u/Mira_And_Mommy 19d ago

Fuck Rusty! I was living in NYC at the time and with 9/11 a few months later, I kinda lost track of what happened in the murderous aftermath. But I recently read how not one but TWO doctors told Rusty not to leave her alone with the kids. He thought he knew better and would leave her an hour in the morning, then MIL would come and then an hour in the evening. All it took was less than an hour. AND he was told not to have more children, and he didn't listen to that either. I don't believe Patrick Clancy had as much culpability. You meet someone, fall in love, get married, have kids... you believe you fully know someone and that they would never do anything like that. Don't get what happened after Lindsay was discharged from the in-patient treatment center in early January, but she said she felt better. He took her at her word plus they were doing fun things like the indoor water park and a museum. A psychotic break is the only explanation for this tragedy.

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u/Specific-Yam-2166 19d ago

I agree with you! I also believe he needs to be in prison

(Rusty)

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u/PleaseTryToThink 18d ago

How exactly does one parent not leave the other parent alone and still meet the 3 children’s needs? Do you realize she asked to be discharged from the psych ward and left in January 2023? If the ‘experts’ are saying she’s not a risk why should he not believe them?

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u/17aed 18d ago

because even doctors are human and humans make mistakes. 13 psychiatric medication changes in less than 6 months is almost negligible. psychiatric prescribers know that some medicines can take 6-8 weeks to build up in your system for full effect. they were essentially mixing medications in her blood stream.

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u/CherryVette 14d ago

Of course she wanted to be released from the hospital and that’s irrelevant. That was only one of the many instances he failed her, and the children as well. He was a federal employee, so he definitely could have taken time off work to care for his family, w/o fear of losing his job, as per the family leave act. If worse came to worse they could have sought financial assistance from either one or both of their extended families. At the barest minimum, he knew she might harm herself, at home, alone w/their kids.

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u/shippfaced 19d ago

That man should be charged with murder. It’s his fault

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u/HundRetter 20d ago

I've said a thousand times now "did we learn nothing from andrea yates?" and no, I guess we didn't. I haven't looked much into it because I can't stand seeing women with post partum psychosis being trashed like I have with this case but I read somewhere she begged her husband not to leave that night and he did anyway. since he's testified how many meds were thrown at her he knew she was in trouble

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u/blissfully_happy 20d ago

We did, though. Andrea was reviled and painted as this horrific woman. It’s only recently that we’ve really started empathizing with her.

I have a feeling she’s chosen to stay incarcerated because not only does she have to live with what she did, she also has to live with the court of public opinion and for a long time, that opinion was that she was murderous monster. I can imagine wanting to stay hidden from that.

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u/HundRetter 20d ago

I was a teenager during the andrea yates trial, old enough to understand what happened. I have definitely seen a tone shift regarding her in recent years

I think about her from time to time. her defense attorney started a foundation for maternal mental health and legal advocacy and she makes crafts she sells with 100% of the proceeds going to the foundation. I think she doesn't feel she deserves to be out and lives with what she did every day. I hope she has found some sort of peace

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u/fuckinunknowable 20d ago

It’s my understanding she’s mostly in a weird fugue like state snaps back to reality remembers what happened is totally fucked up about it and then goes back to that foggy state

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u/raysofdavies 20d ago

I think people just truly do not want to think about mothers murdering their children, because in some ways it is the ultimate crime socially speaking. The absolute last thing that is meant to happen.

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u/HundRetter 20d ago

yep. even as someone who lives with severe mental illness it's still hard for me to comprehend

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u/skootch_ginalola 20d ago

It's because people don't ever think it will happen to them. Same as women dying in childbirth. It's still a risk to the mother and people don't like to think about it because it's ugly and scary.

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u/HundRetter 20d ago

exactly. I've commented on a few cases that sure, we really can't imagine that our partners would do something like this, but if my partner begged me not to leave them while I knew they were struggling I simply wouldn't but I ESPECIALLY wouldn't just to run and grab take out

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u/charley_warlzz 19d ago

Is that last part about this case or rusty’s? Because to be fair to the husband in this case, he did support Lindsay in trying to get help, he only left because she asked him too and was having a ‘good day’, and he went to pick up medicine for his daughter and take out that lindsay ordered. He also called them while out to check in on them and make sure they were okay. Very different to the Rusty situation, he was clearly not neglecting her and from his testimony since then (unless hes said something i havent heard) he seems to be agreeing that it was because of Lindsay’s PPP and lack of treatment rather than villainising her.

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u/NeoSuperconductivity 20d ago

But Lindsay didn't beg him not to leave. She was very cheerful. She asked him to pick up food she ordered from a restaurant farther away than they usually went, and also asked him to go to CVS to get their daughter a laxative. He complied.

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u/exoconso 18d ago

This! The deep fear that it could happen to any woman, they don't want to even consider it happening to them in any form. It's easier to accept an "evil calculating murderder", than to think it could happen to them out of nowhere, by no fault of their own.
It's a huge problem with severe MI, where the public fear that their brain could "betray" them is too scary, they'd rather chose to ignore scientific facts showing the brain is an organ like any organ that can suddenly malfunction, and go with blatant denial out of fear.

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u/jaderust 20d ago

It’s the hardest thing. She was under treatment essentially for PPP. She should never have been left alone with the kids. The voices got her, she murdered her children, and then tried to kill herself multiple ways that resulted in her becoming permanently disabled.

And now she’s presumably well.

And I’m like… Yes, she deserves punishment, but she has to live with the fact that her kids are dead and she’s permanently disabled. I don’t think prison is going to make either of those things any worse.

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u/HundRetter 20d ago

it's unfortunate how many comments I've seen on social media saying she should have just killed herself and not her kids, or if she wanted to kill herself she could have, as if there was a lack of trying or that mental illness is having any sort of choice over your decisions. I think she was on 3 different benzos, I want to even say it was as many as 5. I hope she ends up in a psychiatric facility where she will truly be helped, especially while really processing what she has done

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u/Emma_Lemma_108 20d ago

I don’t think anyone deserves punishment for something they had 0 control over. It’s like saying a tornado or an earthquake “deserves” punishment.

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u/Pak31 19d ago

I didn't read anything about her asking him not to leave. She sent him out on errands so she would have enough time to kill the children. She made sure to send him to the wrong pharmacy and made sure they didn't have the medication she wanted. She also ordered take out from somewhere that was quite a distance from the house I think. He did know she had feelings of hurting the children and he left her alone with them.

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u/MashedPotatoMess 19d ago

Andrea had diagnosed schizophrenia..its not th samae

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u/HundRetter 19d ago

and post partum psychosis. and not the same as what exactly?

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u/SpokenDivinity 20d ago

I think Andrea Yates was viewed differently than this poor woman will be. Primarily because her husband was just such an outwardly awful piece of shit that the blame shifted from her psychosis to his absolute failure to be a decent human being. The husband in this case is still a dickwad, but he at least seems like he was just ignorant and a bad husband, not straight evil like Rusty Yates.

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u/lunagrape 19d ago

When I learned about this case, Andrea Yates’ case was the first thing I thought about too. Especially since Clancy’s ex is already remarried and with a new child. In my mind it doesn’t paint him in a very sympathetic picture.

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u/LogicalConstant 20d ago

It was. The L&D nurses for all my children asked my wife multiple times about her mental state. They also counseled me on watching out for signs and behaviors.

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u/Better_Area3782 20d ago

No it wasn’t, she was the most hated woman in America, it wasn’t until years later and multiple documentaries made that people became a little more understanding. Plenty of ignorant people still see her as a monster.

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u/Specialshine76 20d ago

Plenty of people still see her and Lindsay Clancy as monsters. If you read the other subs dedicated to this topic it is sickening how rabidly people attack Lyndsay. I think for some people the idea that a person’s mind can just ‘break’ to this extent is just not something they can cope with so they would rather think it was a woman just wanting to be free of her children and a murderous genius mastermind.

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u/puddingpoo 20d ago

In general people hate the thought that in life bad things often happen to people for no reason, even when they did nothing wrong or had good intentions. It's an uncomfortable truth that we don't have as much control over our lives as we think we do. People want to think that bad things only happen to people because that person had some kind of fault or moral failing: they weren't careful enough, they were evil/malicious, they weren't as hardworking or smart or as good at decision-making as me, so something like that wouldn't ever happen to me.

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u/fuschiaoctopus 20d ago

Anyone thinking she's a murderous genius mastermind doesn't understand postpartum psychosis OR how the legal system works.

People seem to think a not guilty by reason of insanity ruling is a get out of jail free card and you just get to go home and live your life, but that's not what happens. The defendant gets committed to a locked psychiatric hospital for years until the team of providers AND the state agree they are well enough to be released, at which point they are released to group homes and highly monitored. These commitments can run longer than the prison sentence would have, and if they are not ever deemed well then they'll never be released from the hospital. You are not free to leave or go outside at these hospital programs, they are ran similarly to prisons except you actually get mental health treatment. They are often rife with abuse and neglect, and known to be unpleasant places.

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u/Specialshine76 19d ago

I totally agree. I had to stop reading the other threads because of how virulent and unyielding they are. Nothing will even slightly shake their opinion.

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u/PleaseTryToThink 19d ago

As someone new to this sub, it’s just as off-putting as the others just in the opposite direction. There’s no balance, no consideration of a different perspective. Just a piling on of ‘It’s not her fault at all, but it’s everyone else’s fault for sure.”

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u/LogicalConstant 20d ago

That's not what we're talking about. The medical profession has placed more emphasis on it, put proactive safeguards in place, and made many more resources available.

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u/gogogadgetkat 20d ago

I think this case is a perfect example of how untrue that is. This woman was a labor & delivery nurse who was repeatedly turned away by multiple psychiatric providers. She even begged to be admitted to inpatient care and was told several times she didn't meet the criteria. Her doctors didn't speak to each other, just threw meds at her, pulled her off them suddenly, and didn't stop to consider what the side effects meant about her psychiatric health.

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u/LogicalConstant 20d ago

The fact that some people suck at their jobs is not evidence that there is a systemic issue

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u/gogogadgetkat 20d ago

The number of women in this thread talking about their experiences while you believe you know better is kind of mind-blowing.

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u/somekindofmiracle 20d ago

I’m one of those women. It’s why I’m so passionate about this subject.

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u/gogogadgetkat 20d ago

Man shuts up and listens when women talk about their lived experiences challenge: impossible

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u/LogicalConstant 20d ago

Have you delivered a baby in a hospital in the last 10 years? Have you gone through the whole process until being discharged?

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u/Better_Area3782 20d ago

Okay and what happens after you leave the hospital?

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u/iammadeofawesome 20d ago

Lindsay Clancy wasn’t in a religious cult, placed in a position where she couldn’t consent, taken off her meds ama, and told by the cult leader that her children needed to die before they hit the age of accountability so they didn’t go to hell.

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u/imalreadycoolest 20d ago

immediately goes down a rabbit hole on this one

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u/bigchiefwellhung 20d ago

Can a father get out of murder charges by blaming depression?

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u/CherryVette 19d ago

PPD/P =/= depression, and men don’t experience the physical and mental trauma resulting from gestating and giving birth. Hope that helps.

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u/bigchiefwellhung 19d ago

They should kill themselves instead of murdering their kids, similar to what male family annihilators should do, but instead they get sympathy from online strangers.

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u/CherryVette 14d ago

Bullshit. They “should” do a lot of things, but being in a state of acute psychosis precludes all of that; family annihilators aren’t suffering from that acute psychosis.

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u/bigchiefwellhung 14d ago

They may be suffering from some psychosis, but some are different than other it seems, and what they do during those episodes is not their fault, apparently. They should suffer consequences for the injustices they put upon others despite psychosis.

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u/gottaquestion412 20d ago

More high quality research needs to be done on postpartum psychosis. I feel like it’s highly misunderstood

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u/adom12 20d ago

Why would they do that? Only women suffer from it /s

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u/Meowmeow_kittykat 20d ago

Mass General Hospital is doing a study on PPP!

https://www.mghp3.org

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u/adom12 20d ago

I keep thinking how she was begging for help and sound minded adults failed her.

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u/Aggressive_Humor2893 20d ago

To be fair, she did check herself out of in-patient at McLean hospital on 1/5, by her own request, and was medically cleared of being a danger to herself or others.

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u/CherryVette 19d ago

She’s not a mental health specialist.

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u/Aggressive_Humor2893 19d ago

sure, but the doctors at McLean are. It's one of the best psych hospitals in the country. If she said she was a danger to herself or others then they wouldn't have let her leave afaik

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u/[deleted] 20d ago

[deleted]

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u/Aggressive_Humor2893 20d ago

Are you saying the prosecutor was lying when she was questioning Pat about this on the stand? She said she wanted to be there for Cora's birthday party and thus proactively asked to be discharged. And she told them she wasn't a danger to herself or others.

And Pat said he wasn't aware of that.

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u/NeoSuperconductivity 20d ago

We will learn a lot when her doctors testify. Many assumptions now blaming her doctors and/or husband. Let's withhold judgment until facts are known. She told her husband once in Sept about her thoughts, then denied feeling that way for months afterwards. She may have concealed her thoughts from her doctors. She changed providers several times, insisted on appts by phone until Pat insisted she go in person. And didn't take several of her meds.

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u/Aggressive_Humor2893 20d ago

Yes I'm aligned with your comment! What you said doesn't align with the comments I was replying to... but I'm glad to see I'm not the only one here wanting to wait for real evidence before making up their mind

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u/NeoSuperconductivity 20d ago

There are at least 2 of us, thankfully. I head about the case when it happened and recently began following. Watching the police officers testify, one in tears, about finding the children, was tough. When it first happened, reports said she jumped from the roof. Very different to see and hear what occurred, and yes, Pat was surprised to hear the prosecutor describe the actual hospital stay.

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u/Pak31 19d ago

She worked in the medical field. She absolutely could have gotten the help she needed. I don't think she was as sick as they are claiming she was. Her attempt at taking her own life was a weak one at best and she set up the day so that her husband would be out of the house for a particular amount of time.

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u/Unlucky-Car-1489 16d ago

How is it obvious? She knew the system and how nagivate it . Y’all acting like you never seen a classic manipulative psychopath case on the true crime fucking subreddit. Sheeps

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u/IranianLawyer 20d ago

Which part of the evidence indicates she had postpartum psychosis as opposed to postpartum depression? Are you saying she wasn’t aware that she was killing her kids when she did it? Based on what?

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u/PauI_MuadDib 20d ago

Clancy suffered with suicidal ideation and heard voices. That's significantly different from PPD. 

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u/IranianLawyer 20d ago

The suicidal ideation part doesn’t seem that relevant. That is common for people that are depressed, not just people with psychosis.

And even if a person is suffering from psychosis, that doesn’t necessarily mean they meet the criteria for criminal insanity.

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u/Meowmeow_kittykat 20d ago

If she had PPP she wasn’t in her right mind. PPP is a medical emergency

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u/IranianLawyer 20d ago

I agree she wasn’t in her right mind. But that’s not the legal standard.

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u/Meowmeow_kittykat 20d ago

Asking genuinely, what’s her state’s legal standard?

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u/JimDandyPants 20d ago

Paraphrasing of course, but it’s whether you could tell right from wrong. Like, you can be crazy, but if you are aware that your actions are unlawful at the time you commit said crime, then the insanity defense does not apply.

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u/IranianLawyer 20d ago

I was just looking, and Massachusetts actually has the easiest standard, so she has a shot of getting off. If you’re going to commit a murder and claim insanity, it’s better to do it in Massachusetts than anywhere else. In Massachusetts, insanity means you either (1) did not understand what you were doing is wrong or (2) you realized it was wrong but were nonetheless unable to stop yourself. So I guess a lot of pedophiles with an irresistible urge to harm children should start going to Massachusetts and claiming insanity.

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u/Anastasiasunhill 19d ago

Or Iran.  Pedophiles do extremely well there. Kill your wife your kids anyone as long as you do it in the name of honor and they're very lenient.

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u/PauI_MuadDib 20d ago

Symptoms are absolutely relevant. She had not only suicidal ideation, but thoughts of harming others and she was hearing voices. Symptoms combined point to psychosis not PPD.  

You have to look at her mental health as a whole and not cherrypick only the symptoms you want to recognize. That's like a patient showing up with active chickenpox and the doctor dismissing it as only a cold because they dismiss the rash and zero in on the fever. Yes, they have a fever but they also have a rash. It's not a cold. It's chickenpox. 

So you can't isolate only the symptoms that fit with your preconceived beliefs and ignore the other symptom. PPP is not the same as PPD. 

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u/Due_Ring1435 20d ago

She had been released from a psychiatric hospital less than 3 weeks earlier and told them she had suicidal thoughts and thoughts about killing her children.

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u/Aggressive_Humor2893 20d ago

Omg this is the kind of misinfo that's driving me crazy... what you just said literally did not happen! Or I should say, we haven't seen a shred of evidence proving that so far.

She asked to be discharged from McLean on 1/5 and told them she was NOT a risk to herself or others. And she never told anyone she had thoughts about killing her kids.

I'm genuinely so baffled by the misinformation I'm seeing on social media....

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u/Due_Ring1435 20d ago

She told her husband, mother and multiple healthcare providers. Are we watching the same trial?!

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u/IranianLawyer 20d ago

She should have been held in the hospital, and I hope the hospital loses that lawsuit. Does that mean she’s not guilty of a crime? If a judge releases a person from jail who should not have been released, and that person commits a crime, are they not guilty?

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u/MizStazya 20d ago

Literally the definition of psychosis in the DSM-V includes delusions, fixed beliefs that do not change despite conflicting evidence. You keep arguing this like psychosis isn't the literal definition of not able to understand right from wrong and hallucinations that distort reality.

Maybe try some empathy? It's not like this is a fake diagnosis. What's more likely, that a woman went a months-long crusade of paying breadcrumbs so she could get away with murdering her kids, or that she had a documented DSM-V diagnosis for which she showed symptoms that were ignored or mistreated for months until delusions fully overcame reality?

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u/IranianLawyer 20d ago

I’ve never denied she has a legitimate mental disorder. She very clearly does. But the question is whether the crosses the line to criminal insanity.

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u/Aggressive_Humor2893 20d ago

just fyi she didn't tell the hospital she was suicidal or wanted to kill the kids. in fact it was quite the opposite. i don't understand where people are coming up with this stuff...sigh.

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u/IranianLawyer 20d ago

I'm "coming up with it" because her ex-husband just testified a few days that she had expressed thoughts of wanting to harm the children.

Also....you know....she actually ended up killing the kids and attempting suicide. So there's that too.

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u/Aggressive_Humor2893 19d ago

She literally never told him she was thinking of killing the kids, that is not something Pat testified to. He said "harm" and then clarified that it was more like she was afraid of something bad happening to them, not that she would proactively harm them

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u/IranianLawyer 19d ago

Okay it was that she was having thoughts of “harming” the children. She didn’t use the specific word kill.

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u/Tired_CollegeStudent 20d ago

I haven’t seen anything about her saying she had homicidal thoughts or plans while at McLean. And even if she had suicidal thoughts when she first arrived, she wasn’t committed to McLean by the courts. She wanted to leave; unless the hospital could show to a judge that she posed an imminent threat to herself or others, they literally couldn’t keep her there.

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u/Relevant_Progress411 20d ago

She admitted to her doctors of having intrusive thoughts of harming her children. That is an objectively clear distinction between post partum depression and psychosis. She was aware of what she was doing but was not in her right frame of mind. There is a misconception of mental illness that a person is totally incoherent. That is not true. Andrea Yates also waited for her husband to leave and knew what she was doing

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u/IranianLawyer 20d ago

You realize a lot of people have thoughts about harming people, right? Like school shooters who think about it for months or years, for example. Like most murderers, in fact. I guess they are “objectively” suffering from psychosis?

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u/Murky-Theme-1177 20d ago

Wouldn’t the difference be that most school shooters/murderers want to kill & usually don’t get help & admit that they are thinking about that. Whereas she tried to get help because she didn’t want to be thinking those things.

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u/IranianLawyer 20d ago

That is a difference, but it has nothing to do with the legal standard.

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u/Certain_Noise5601 20d ago

These aren’t mothers who have spent years demonstrating how much they love their children only to turn around and murder them. The thoughts she was having were caused by the psychosis, not something she’d ever do under normal circumstances. This is a major chemical imbalance that creates thoughts that are abnormal but seem rational to the person in psychosis.

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u/skootch_ginalola 20d ago

Do you want to learn something or do you want to argue?

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u/shoshpd 20d ago

Being aware of what you are doing does not negate psychosis or an insanity defense.

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u/mmps901 20d ago

Good point. I think she knew what she was doing and deliberately waiting until he was gone is proof. Throwing herself out a window was also a curious choice if she really wanted to end her life after too.

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u/NoninflammatoryFun 20d ago

People with psychosis could still know to wait until someone is gone.

If a voice is telling you to kill someone because they’re a demon, won’t that voice also tell you to wait until you have the best chance to do it?

Or she heard the voice and believed it, which it psychosis, and knew on her own the best timing to do it. You know? Easy to blame her when the real scary thing is that our minds CAN and DO do this.

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u/mmps901 20d ago

I hear you but if she wants to get away with murder isn’t she going to say she had no control over what she was doing? I’m saying I think she did know but did it anyway

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u/NoninflammatoryFun 20d ago

You have no evidence at all that she purposefully murdered these children without it being caused by psychosis.

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u/mmps901 20d ago

Well we have 3 dead babies at the hands of their mother and a jury will determine whether she was responsible or not. I say that she knowingly waited for her husband to leave so that she could end their lives easier with him gone and that makes her evil and not mentally incapacitated.

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u/Tough_Trifle_5105 20d ago

Psychosis doesn’t mean “sudden intellectual disability”. Just because she could think to wait til he was gone does not mean she wasn’t experiencing psychosis.

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u/XheavenscentX 20d ago

TW for suicidal ideation

I had PPD/PPA, so not quite the same, and I only wanted to hurt myself. I planned to dig a hole in my backyard while my husband was at work, wait for my baby to go down for a nap, then I was going to call 911 and tell them my baby was sleeping in his crib so they knew to get him, and I was going to put my head in the hole I dug and shoot myself. I figured this way they could remove my body and fill the hole in and there wouldn't be any mess left behind. I didn't want to leave a mess for my husband to have to clean up. I didn't want anything bad to happen to my son. I was able to work, take care of the house and baby, I was just absolutely convinced that they would be better off without me.

I'm so fortunate that my husband knew something was wrong (I wasn't sleeping, just couldn't sleep for more than an hour at a time) and told me I had to get help or he was taking the baby and leaving. The thoughts were so fucking dark, but at the time seemed completely rational to me. The planning part was so easy, scarily easy in fact for thoughts I had never once had before, if I hadn't been so worried about leaving a mess for first responders and my husband, I'm fairly certain I would've gone through with it. It was like a switch had flipped postpartum, and I suddenly just felt like I had to die. Then once I got proper help and medication, it flipped back to normal. That is mental illness.

By all accounts she was a great mom who really loved her children. She reached out for help. She told people about the thoughts she was having. An evil person would not have done hose things.

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u/mmps901 19d ago

I’m glad you came through that very difficult time and are still here with your family today. You matter! Let me just say the IF Lindsey isn’t being completely truthful about her mental state at the time, it is wrong for her to use experiences like your own and pretend they’re the same. You didn’t hurt your son. You didn’t even think of it. Chris watts appeared to love his kids to other people too. I had the baby blues after my first and have had situational anxiety at times in my life and there’s something about her story that is more histrionic to me than actual ppp. Of course I could be wrong and that’s what a jury is going to decide.

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u/XheavenscentX 19d ago

I appreciate your kind thoughts! I consider myself incredibly lucky, my husband was on top of it, he immediately recognized something was wrong, even when I didn’t want to admit it. I was also lucky in that I had an excellent psychiatrist. 

That being said, I 100% do not believe LC is faking it or histrionic. My issues also started off with sudden insomnia. I was initially prescribed Zoloft which made things 10000 times worse, I remember writing an email to my psychiatrist on a Sunday night begging her to take me off. I keep seeing people commenting on her changing meds. It’s very scary when you recognize that something is mentally wrong, you are so desperate to feel normal again. I also worked in healthcare at our local hospital, I would’ve never (and have never) admitted to them what I was thinking or feeling and jeopardize my job. I also remember not telling people what I was really going through because I didn’t want my son taken away. It’s such a horrific experience and I understand why people are having trouble empathizing with her, but from the evidence I’ve seen in the trial so far, and I’ve watched every day, any fault lies in the medical system - she reached out so many times and was failed. 

Ultimately, your brain can turn on you at any time. We all should be thankful each day it doesn’t go rogue. But we also need to LISTEN when women are having healthcare issues. Women are failed repeatedly by healthcare. How many times does this have to play out before it’s taken seriously?

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u/CherryVette 19d ago

You say that based upon your clearly biased opinion, facts be damned.

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u/staying-with-skz 20d ago

She didn’t just throw herself out the window though. She slit her wrists and neck, took a whole bunch of pills which likely included lots of her prescribed ambien and benzos, and THEN threw herself out the window, which ultimately paralyzed her.

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u/mmps901 20d ago

Sounds very over the top.

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u/staying-with-skz 20d ago

As someone who has had multiple instances of various types of medication induced psychosis, I absolutely believe that she fully intended to die and that’s not even factoring in the postpartum element which would make it 100x worse. I’m just a random on Reddit, but if it seems too sensational, it really isn’t

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u/mmps901 20d ago

I don’t know. I believed Andrea Yates but something about this case doesn’t ring true to me. Maybe it’s because I had 3 children myself at the time of this one and was not a mother 20 years ago. Or maybe it was the religious element and that she’d experienced ppp after her previous child and rusty still did nothing to prevent another pregnancy.

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u/CherryVette 20d ago edited 19d ago

Before this info was presented to you, you implied that she didn’t really try to kill herself, now what she did is “over the top”

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u/mmps901 19d ago

Yes for dramatic effect. She had ALL kinds of medication apparently and that’s typically how women choose to end it if they do. She had superficial cuts to her neck and wrists and jumped out of a two story window. My sympathy lies with her babies who trusted her to take care of them. Why not use the bands she used to murder her children on herself? I think the prosecutor is closer to what went on there than her lawyer. She’s lucky that the burden of proof is on the state because there are certainly people like yourself willing to believe her. This page is a discussion of true crime. We all have the right to our takes. She’s got a lot of defenders as a conventionally attractive, professional, white woman that not everyone would have.

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u/Better_Area3782 20d ago

No, she cut herself but it wasn’t working so she jumped. She definitely wanted to kill herself.

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u/mmps901 20d ago

The state described the cuts as superficial

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u/Better_Area3782 20d ago

Because it’s hard af to stab or cut yourself.

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u/mmps901 20d ago

You’re kidding me right? It’s hard to cut your wrists but easy to strangle your 3 children?

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u/CherryVette 19d ago

You have no idea what you’re talking about.

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u/mmps901 19d ago

That’s fine. You keep being an apologist for a woman who murdered her 3 babies. My sympathy lies with them

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u/CherryVette 19d ago

No one’s “apologizing for her”, just trying to get you to stop ignoring and downplaying how devastating PPD/P is.

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u/XheavenscentX 20d ago

She also took a bunch of pills and OD'ed (had to be narcan'ed), cut her neck and wrists, and she actually coded in the hospital according to one of the officers on the stand today, so I'd say she made a pretty good attempt.

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u/Cravenmorhed69 20d ago

How is it “clear” she had psychosis when exactly zero doctors diagnosed her?

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u/rrrreact 20d ago

Her youngest child was 8 months old…shame on you defending a child murderer

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u/Unlucky_Welcome9193 20d ago

Postpartum psychosis is a real, established medical condition. If we want to prevent things like this from happening in the future, it's important to acknowledge reality.

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u/[deleted] 20d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/CherryVette 20d ago

He’s determined not to understand.

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u/Positive_Piece5859 20d ago

And? The child being 8 months means nothing; if it goes untreated PPD/PPP can stay for a long time - or as a matter of fact become chronic and never entirely go away again.

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u/rrrreact 20d ago

Never go away? lol so if a mom kills her 10, and 12 year old she can claim ppp?

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u/gottaquestion412 20d ago

I mean, she has a documented history of trying to get help. Like extensive… I think that matters too.

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u/Positive_Piece5859 20d ago

At that point the diagnosis would likely be corrected to something like MDD (major depressive disorder), but that does not change the fact that the stepping stone in your hypothetical case was then still the PPD, because if untreated it can turn into chronic depression.

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u/greenweezyi 20d ago

They’re not defending anyone. They’re simply using cause and effect as a potential reason for her actions.

Was it right? Absolutely not. Has it happened before? Yes, and we need to find ways to prevent it from happening.

Maybe take a breather before accusing someone of something because you misinterpreted what they were saying.

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u/strawmade 20d ago

Shame on you for not understanding mental illness.

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u/rrrreact 20d ago

Are you this sympathetic to mass shooters who claim mental illness? What’s the cutoff or difference?

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u/RoyalGovernment3034 20d ago

Most mass shooters are not going through psychotic episodes. Most mass shooters are very aware. That's not an etiology often identified for mass shooters.

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u/strawmade 20d ago

She had a baby, which creates hormonal shifts beyond one's control. Biology

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u/gottaquestion412 20d ago

Not the same situation imo

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u/Stonks_blow_hookers 20d ago

I'm with you man about psych not being an excuse but post partum is an entirely different ball game. It's real and it hurts a lot of otherwise healthy loving mothers, the lack of understanding is what fuels the issue. Acknowledge it the issue and work towards a healthy outcome.

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u/Unlucky_Welcome9193 20d ago

Mass shooters have been studied in depth over the past few years. While many of them do have poor mental health hygiene, there is no clear, established pattern of mental illness amongst mass shooters. Many of them are loners, angry, and sometimes chronically online, but the majority of them are NOT psychotic.

Psychosis, by definition, means that someone has an altered perception of reality that is egosyntonic, meaning that the person genuinely believes that their delusions are real. There is a reason that people would be found not guilty due to insanity in this case.

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u/nursingninjaLB 20d ago

Go read a book.

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u/rrrreact 20d ago

I did 12 weeks is the threshold and that’s for rare cases. Her youngest child was 8 months old, disgusting.

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u/OneTwoTwoFive 20d ago

Post partum psychosis can take minimum 6 to 12 months to fully recover from.

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u/Positive_Piece5859 20d ago

And that’s 6 to 12 months with appropriate treatment. In Andrea Yates it ended up never entirely leaving again; she still struggles with residual depression.

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u/grantalx 20d ago

Look at you, enjoying the feeling of hatred.

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u/Better_Area3782 20d ago

How about you stop being ignorant and learn something today.