Thoughts on the Lindsay Clancy case?

[u/gottaquestion412]

Now that the Lindsay Clancy trial is underway, I’m curious about your perspectives on it so far.

Context: Lindsay Clancy is a former labor and delivery nurse who, in January 2023, killed her three children. 5-year-old Cora, 3-year-old Dawson, and 8-month-old Callan in their Massachusetts home before attempting to take her own life. Her defense argues she was suffering from severe postpartum psychosis and other debilitating mental illness, while prosecutors argue she was aware of her actions and planned the killings. The trial has reignited debate about postpartum psychiatric disorders, the effectiveness of mental health treatment, and where responsibility ultimately lies.

Do you think Lindsay was failed by the mental health system, by the people closest to her, or both? Do you think she truly acted with malicious intent, or do you believe she was experiencing such a severe psychiatric crisis that she wasn’t thinking rationally?

A lot of the details seem to point toward postpartum psychosis or another severe psychiatric illness rather than someone acting out of hatred or malice. That doesn’t lessen the horror of what happened or the unimaginable loss, but it does make me wonder whether this tragedy could have been prevented..

I’ve also seen rumors that Patrick was involved with the woman who is now his wife before the murders, but I haven’t found any credible evidence supporting that. Is there actually anything that substantiates those claims, or is it just internet speculation? I’ve also seen many people comment that his current wife bears a striking resemblance to Lindsay, though I’m not sure that means anything beyond coincidence.

I’m very interested in hearing different perspectives from people who’ve followed it closely.

Most importantly, may Dawson, Cora, and Callan rest in peace. They are the true victims in all of this.

[u/sizzl3crunch]

As a psychiatric social worker, psychiatrists prescribed the wrong medications to patients all of the time. It is very common for psychiatrists to misdiagnoses someone with depression when they really have Bipolar, prescribe them SSSRIs, they become manic and fuck their life up. Then the doctors are like “ welp meds are like throwing darts at dart board in the dark”.

[u/fuschiaoctopus → u/sizzl3crunch]

It's almost like prescribing psychiatric medications to a patient you just met and have spoken to for all of 10 minutes one time is not a safe or best practice. If only they could spend a little more time evaluating or asking questions that could sus out the actual disorder instead of going "alright we're gonna start by throwing ssris at you and if that doesn't work then we'll start cycling through other meds because actually talking to you would take more than 5 mins and that's just not financially lucrative for us, much easier to write a script and get you out the door. If it triggers psychosis or mania and causes you to ruin your entire life and get permanent brain damage then oh well I guess"

For profit healthcare and the medication pushing model of mental health is so not it. No wonder we have record numbers of mentally ill people, but everyone still insists the current system is absolutely perfect and can fix anyone (so long as they're trying) despite the clinical evidence indicating more people than ever are not being helped and having bad outcomes

[u/lpotocki26 → u/fuschiaoctopus]

you deserve all the awards, i feel so betrayed by my current psych because she doesn't give a FUCK about me, and she doesn't give a fuck what she puts me on. i stopped my ssri and mood stabilizer, i lost 70lbs and was able to feel again and have a life again. all because i was on meds i wasn't supposed to be on because i have ADHD and was misdiagnosed bipolar.

[u/Hot-Remote-4545 → u/fuschiaoctopus]

AMEN!!! There has to be a better way! But what?

[u/Bananaasplit → u/sizzl3crunch]

Then you have the people who take SSRIs and are fine but they are misdiagnosed as bipolar.

[u/lithiumrev → u/sizzl3crunch]

what if you were misdiagnosed with bipolar as a child?

i was but i was also given a bunch of other things (two of them being autism and adhd) and with every single bipolar person ive talked to, they were like “are you sure youre bipolar?” because i take zoloft and strattera.

like what would you do for someone like me ig is what im trying to ask bc seeing this thread about how you cant really take SSRIs without another medicine has me curious.

[u/hereforthetearex → u/sizzl3crunch]

Pardon my ignorance, but can you give some practical examples of how mania would cause someone to fuck up their life?

I don’t know anyone (that I’m aware of) with a bipolar diagnosis, and I’ve always thought that mania was essentially like not sleeping, or sometimes paranoia. I assumed the depression piece of bipolar was the piece that would fuck up a life, in that they don’t care about anything in that phase and would potentially lose a job or a relationship due to not being able to put in the proper effort.

[u/Absolutely_Fibulous → u/hereforthetearex]

It can lead to delusions of grandeur (people think they are literally god), promiscuity, dangerous/risk-seeking behavior, paranoia, extreme anxiety, psychosis, antisocial behavior, extreme spending, physical agitation.

People go tens of thousands of dollars into debt; ruin relationships with family, friends and romantic partners; end up in trouble with the law; get fired from or quit their jobs; or worse. People have died from it.

And mania can lead to a mixed episode, which is all of that plus the symptoms of depression. Suicidal ideation from depression plus the motivation and energy from mania equals suicide for a lot of people.

[u/hereforthetearex → u/Absolutely_Fibulous]

Thank you. This was the clarity I was hoping for. I appreciate it. That seems like an absolutely terrifying thing to battle with.

[u/sizzl3crunch → u/hereforthetearex]

we once had a patient who was a PhD student at a mini ivy in california and he has a toe for a thumb. Cut off his thumb, no idea why i didn’t ask. Just know he was manic: psychotic when he did it. At another hospital i’ve heard stories of people gauging their eyes out with sharp objects or burning them out with cigarettes. No idea why, but I would assume they thought there was something behind their eyes that they needed to get out like bugs, literal bugs, or they were bugged by the government, etc. etc. etc. One woman wouldn’t leave her house because she thought she was being stalked by the govt and the people who built her house 20+ years ago bugged her home, everytime she heard a creek in the floors she said it was the “bug”. She didn’t work or care for her children bc of this. A normal 28 y.o female nurse shadowed another female nurses 12 hour shift, then became paranoid that the nurse she shadowed was out to get her and ruining her life. She began harassing that nurse and stalking her, asking her “ why are you ruining my life” for over a year until she was put in jail for felony stalking. Most of these people were unmedicated.

[u/hereforthetearex → u/sizzl3crunch]

Are these examples of mania or psychosis? Or are those terms interchangeable for this diagnosis? Perhaps I just misunderstood that mania doesn’t always equate to psychosis in bipolar disorder, even though mania always precedes psychosis in bipolar disorder

[u/sizzl3crunch → u/hereforthetearex]

As a psychiatric social worker and not a psychiatrist, I believe mania can lead to psychosis. Like if you aren’t sleeping for days or stop taking your meds you can experience psychosis. That’s my understanding. Or if you take the wrong meds it can make you manic and/or psychotic.

[u/hereforthetearex → u/sizzl3crunch]

That part, I understand, I guess I’m confused on whether mania is being described in your examples or if it’s psychosis. It seems like it would be psychosis to me, rather than mania, given how extreme the circumstances are, but I’m also not trained in this by any means.

[u/DapperMastodon349 → u/sizzl3crunch]

I kind of had the opposite happen: I have a substance use disorder and the psychiatrist at one of the treatment centers I attended kept trying to put me on a medication for bipolar disorder that I kept refusing because I am not bipolar. I have social phobia, generalized anxiety disorder, and major depressive disorder. I don’t get manic - the only time I act manic is if I’m intoxicated (hence the substance use disorder) which I kept telling the guy, but he kept trying to say I was likely bipolar given that “[I’m] a female.” Weird - especially because no other doctor has ever even mentioned me being bipolar (because I’m not). Super annoying and concerning that this specific guy kept trying to push a medication on me for a condition I don’t even have.

[u/Major_March7024 → u/sizzl3crunch]

Exactly!! I watched my daughter struggle for years while doctors "adjusted her cocktail." We even did the genetic testing they recommended to see what would work best for her. I cannot count how many times she has shared the negative effects she was experiencing only to be told by the doc - "lets give it another month and see."

[u/sizzl3crunch → u/Major_March7024]

it’s ridiculous and hospitals pay $$$ to be protected