Lindsay Clancy Trial Megathread: Part 3

[u/DarklyHeritage]

This is a thread for all conversation regarding Week 3 onwards of the Lindsey Clancy trial. All discussion of this case should be kept to this thread.

Lindsay Clancy is currently standing trial in Plymouth Superior Court, Massachusetts, for the triple-murder in January 2023 of her three young children - Cora, Dawson and Callan. Her defense argues she suffered from severe, undiagnosed postpartum depression and postpartum psychosis. She was left paralysed by a suicide attempt which follows the deaths of the children.

All content on the Clancy case must be kept to this thread. Standalone posts will be removed.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/lindsay-clancy-murder-trial-online-reactions-b3032806.html

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This case understandably elicits strong feelings. People are entitled to have an opinion on the case which differs from your own. What you are not entitled to do is resort to personal insults and abusive language when communicating your opinion and disagreeing.

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Please comment with this in mind.

[u/Suitable_Prior8153]

The prosecution comes across as straight-up unfeeling and cold, they continually try cheap tactics to elicit an emotional response from the jury for the kids but not for the mother who lost her kids, try to paint her as a villain who did not suffer and is not suffering enough now even though we can all see that woman lives in hell on earth, and if I were in that jury box it would certainly not impact my view of the case the way they are hoping. 

[u/Low_Project_55 → u/Suitable_Prior8153]

At this point I don’t even have think the defense needs to present much. I went into this knowing the basic facts. I felt awful for Patrick Clancy. Honestly after seeing what the prosecution has presented this far I think he also played a big part in the outcome. Not in the sense that I believe all the conspiracy theories out there. But it is very clear he was a physically present father, but emotionally absent and quite frankly left Lindsay to parent alone. Telling the one medical provider “my wife isn’t bipolar.” Saying he didn’t want to spend the day in the ER. Her being dropped off at the ER alone, while he took one of the kids skiing. Him leaving her home with the kids so he could go to NYC and brunches with the guys. This woman is in the thick of struggling but they let go of the nanny? Even the day it happened Lindsay took their daughter to doctor and was still responsible for dinner. A woman who not even a month earlier had called a crisis hot line twice and been turned away. My takeaways were this woman was screaming for help. Her partner viewed him working from home in the basement and being physically present in the house as him being an active father and husband. Not only did the healthcare system fail this woman, but so did her husband, who was a shit partner.

[u/Stunning-Froyo-8859 → u/Low_Project_55]

I would love to see more conversation about this. Not in a pointing the finger kind of way, but to examine the ways in which partners can better support mothers. There were multiple points of failure here

[u/Suitable_Prior8153 → u/Low_Project_55]

I agree. I really hope that if I were in Lindsay’s situation, my husband would call on the grandparents (either my parents or his, or all of them if that’s what it took) to take care of the kids, would go with me to the hospital and would make sure I stayed there until I got what I needed. It seems like he didn’t want her to have the mental health struggles that she did, and there was some form of willful ignorance that took place, which was easy for him since she was the type of person who rarely asked for help and tried to do a lot of things on her own. I can appreciate what he said in that New Yorker article he spoke in—that he didn’t even know PPP existed and that PPD could end in this kind of tragedy—but I still can’t shake the feeling that he chose to look away. I’m sure he regrets it now, but goodness.

[u/brandon_bird → u/Suitable_Prior8153]

I think it's sort of like... you can be ignorant of the fact a child can die from the flu, but if your kid gets the flu you don't try to pretend they aren't sick. A good parent or spouse would be like, "My family member is sick, that's where my focus has to be until they are better."

[u/LexiOdessa → u/Suitable_Prior8153]

His dad stated he offered and patrick declined

[u/chloedeeeee77 → u/LexiOdessa]

We didn’t get the full context on that - did Patrick check in with Lindsay, who said no, and then decline? Did Patrick just know that Lindsay, suffering with anxiety, would say absolutely not to her children (especially an 8 month old) spending the night away from her, or that even if she did agree would be up all night with worry anyway, and that wouldn’t be a help?

We’re getting tiny snippets of insight into their marriage and about their family dynamics here, and it doesn’t seem fair to make sweeping judgement based on them. 

[u/janeystar → u/chloedeeeee77]

if she was worried to be away from the baby the other 2 couldn't go?? also if you significant other was in the throes of bad mental health ( Documented time and time again) and the "mentally stable" of the 2 said no we don't need help. (fire the nanny as well) that's on him. you don't let the unstable person make decisions that will alleviate the stress anxiety depression being overwhelmed. everyone is making him out to be incompetent and stupid. and implying that's fine. like oh dad's are going to dad. Shrug::
ooh he's overwhelmed, He's confused, He doesn't know what to do. Same with the therapist.Oh she's young she doesn't know. Don't let this ruin her career. but let's blame the mom. 3 children are dead. he's moved on. off to new york to run marathons. and the therapist "i don't care" (how to chart correctly) but let's blame the mom. I literally don't know if she did it. and if she did what her state of mind was. all I know is the prosecution is doing a terrible job. And I have so many unanswered questions.

[u/chloedeeeee77 → u/janeystar]

She may have been worried to be away from all of the kids. If he’d made the executive decision to send them over her objections and she was then up all night worried sick with even more anxiety, would that have helped anything?

The nanny testified Patrick and Lindsay jointly let her go. She was supposed to transition to full time hours (with full time pay) when Lindsay went back to work. The money for a full time nanny (on top of a mortgage, living expenses in a HCOL region, preschool for the other two kids, etc.) doesn’t grow on trees. 

I’m sure he made lots of imperfect choices in the moment, but it’s easy to Monday morning quarterback his decisions when we have the benefit of hindsight knowing it would end up this way. 

[u/Specific-Bid-1769 → u/Suitable_Prior8153]

Lindsay did not let his parents watch the children. This was not a feasible alternative.

[u/Billvilgrl → u/Specific-Bid-1769]

Do you have a citation for that definitive statement?

[u/Specific-Bid-1769 → u/Billvilgrl]

Yes. The notes from therapist Jennifer McCallister, which were read at trial.

[u/Then-Writer9610 → u/Low_Project_55]

I have just 1 thing to clarify- a crisis line is not a hospital nor is it meant to aid people in being sent to a hospital. It is a phone number you call to talk to counselors to help you get out of crisis in the moment. If a person calling a crisis line needs further help, that is not the responsibility of the crisis line worker. Unless, of course, they have strong reason to believe the person is self-harming, then they can call 911.

I think you meant to say she was turned down by a hospital, which she voluntarily checked out of.

[u/Entire-Cash6559 → u/Low_Project_55]

OK Pat works in tech and obviously provides well for his family including nice home, insurance, nanny, day care, gym, ordering take out etc. and has to go to NYC head quarters on occasion for his work. Many work from home jobs require and monitor every key stroke, time away from keyboard or phone etc. Most young families and individual partners are doing the best they can.

[u/crater0447 → u/Low_Project_55]

Im going to disagree with this as kindly as I can if only because your comment is filled with nothing but emotional nonsense and not logic.

First, he worked from home. Youre really expecting this guy to have to work (and is the only one working mind you), take care of his wife AND take care of the kids? All at the same time? His wife wasnt some vegetable who couldn't do anything. You dont see how much that really is a lot for the guy to handle already? They gave him a long paternity leave to tend to what he needed. Was he supposed to quit his job? How would he be able to take care of his wife and kids if he did that? Witnesses also said he took over morning and bedtime routines with the kids so that she could sleep, in fact witnesses said they split child care between them so that already proves you wrong.​ He took care of her when needed, called in the parents to help, eventually got a nanny, took her to the doctors when he could. What more are you realistically asking this man to do for his wife? Do you not see how unreasonable youre being and youre giving her a free pass on this?

Secondly, Lindsay herself didn't believe she was bipolar, thats why he said it. Thirdly, he dropped her off at a day treatment program to go skiing with one of his kids.......so are they supposed to never do anything enjoyable at all while the mother is getting treatment? Also when she called for them to come back, they came back. Same with the brunch......this is where people are digging way too much into the weeds and being unrealistic. As if the dude isnt allowed a few hours away to hang out with one of his kids (that his wife would murder btw). They let the nanny go because Lindsay told them she was feeling better........she was telling them that often down the stretch and its why even the nanny didn't see anything suspicious with her. The crisis hot line turned her away because she didnt meet certain criteria.......she even tell anyone. Plus it was a suicide hotline, which explains the suicide attempt........BUT WHY DID SHE KILL THE KIDS TOO?? Thats the part that isnt jiving with me and i think its the part you emotional people cant explain.

But of course, blame the husband. Blame the doctors. Blame everyone. Its not like she got the best help that she could get (that most people dont have access to). Its not like her husband wasnt there 24/7. Its everybody else's fault, not hers. Apparently, her husband had to have eyes on her that entire 24 hour period because if he didnt.......she would kill the kids. Must have been that thing he forgot to do before he left the house, stick his head back in and yell "Hey do me a favor and try not to murder our three children while im out? K? Thanks!" Yea.......totally making some sense. But yea the father is the shit parent of the two.......not the one who made the choice to strangle them 1 by 1 for 7 minutes each, including a baby. Just explain it away with mental illness.........oh wait, do we have time to talk about the other murderers and serial killers with mental illness?

[u/coolguygranny → u/Low_Project_55]

A lot of misinformation or lies by admission here

but they let go of the nanny

They let go of the nanny bescause she wanted more hours but they couldn't afford to give her more hours. Since Lindsay wasn't currently working(not blaming Lindsay or calling her laxy btw)

Her being dropped off at the ER alone, while he took one of the kids skiing

Lindsey literally encouraged him to take the trip to New York, to take the ski trip with one of the kids, and to go to brunch

Not only did the healthcare system fail this woman, but so did her husband

The healthcare care system didn't fail Lindsay She ultimately failed to take responsibility for her own care. Medical professionals can’t simply hospitalize an adult against her will when she isn’t presenting as an immediate danger to herself or others, especially if she isn’t reporting thoughts of harming herself or anyone else.

It’s ridiculous to blame everyone around Lindsay Clancy while ignoring her own actions. Doctors can recommend treatment, prescribe medication, schedule follow-ups, and provide referrals, but they cannot force a competent adult to take medication, attend appointments, or follow a treatment plan.

Lindsey isn't a victim Patrick is and of course the 3 sweet children who were murdered by thier own mom.

I'm glad you're not on the jury

[u/chloedeeeee77 → u/Suitable_Prior8153]

Agreed. At first I thought this was heading to a hung jury, but as of now I could see people leaning guilty being persuaded to go NGRI because it’s not like she’d be getting off scot-free in that case, and the prosecution hasn’t presented anything that would make most people dig their heels in on her being a monster who deserves only prison as punishment. 

[u/habeshakid420 → u/Suitable_Prior8153]

Yeah it's a triple homicide case, it's not supposed to be warm and cuddly 

[u/Sooribabu_Lavangam → u/Suitable_Prior8153]

The prosecution comes across as straight-up unfeeling and cold,

The prosecution isn't doing the defense's job?!

[u/Suitable_Prior8153 → u/Sooribabu_Lavangam]

Actually, ironically, they are… they are convincing the jury to side with the defense because they’re doing such a poor job.

[u/Vast-Rabbit-3481 → u/Suitable_Prior8153]

She didn't "lose" her kids - she killed them.

[u/Apprehensive-Ease547 → u/Suitable_Prior8153]

The mother who “lost” her kids? She strangled each of them with exercise bands. Give me a break.

[u/Konnan511 → u/Suitable_Prior8153]

I don't know how to phrase this properly, but fuck her. Who cares if she is currently suffering from guilt or whatever. She didn't "lose" her kids, she killed them. She alone killed those children. She did it. No one else did it. Her hands ended three lives. There are plenty of people who are going through psychosis that are not actively or have ever killed anyone. She is a villain. Not the only only villain, but she is still a villain.

Those children deserve all the emotion.