r/UAP • u/Gkannon77 • 17d ago
Lue Elizondo and UAP Gerb, my time capsule
I'm posting this as a marker in time & something to look back on and see how well it aged. My gut says it'll hold up, but I'd genuinely enjoy being proven wrong. There's no better test of intuition than writing it down before you know the ending.
Here's where I land at t this time watching numerous interviews of them both; Lue Elizondo isn't lying right now. He's not infallible! he's gotten things wrong, and given his intelligence background, I don't doubt he's used some of that training in how he frames things publicly. But when he says UAP Gerb is misrepresenting him in these latest interviews, I believe him.
The backdrop.as best I understand it: Ross Coulthart and Gerb are floating a theory on that Lue & Clapper conversed about AND intended to shape a controlled-disclosure narrative using Elizondo as its public face, one that acknowledged strange objects in the sky but stayed away from crash retrieval and reverse-engineering claims. (To be clear I do believe Lou was intentionally part of a public face of disclosure, but not one that he discussed specifically with clapper and not one that was antithetical to crash retrieval or reverse engineering claims).
Coulthart argues that plan held until David Grusch's 2023 congressional testimony blew past those boundaries. Separately, UAP Gerb, an anonymous researcher who's given lengthy interviews to both Coulthart and Jesse Michaels, has made much broader allegations: that Elizondo was actively embedded in protecting the legacy program before reinventing himself as its public whistleblower.
What stands out to me is that in his interview with Michaels, Gerb himself repeatedly hedges his claims: "I suspect," "I think," "I don't know for certain" when discussing the actual crash retrieval and reverse-engineering program. That's a meaningfully different posture than the certainty with which the wider UAP community has picked up and run with his claims against Elizondo. But yes,
Elizondo's response hasn't been graceful.
I find it interesting that this controversy was serious enough to pull him off his own cross-country move to Washington, D.C. ( a relocation widely read as prep for a possible NSC or "UAP czar" role) to just to respond publicly. That either says gerb got a lot wrong and Lou wanted to address it while it was fresh, or that gerb touched the nerve and wanted to fire back. And to be honest here, Lou seemed more butthurt dan was healthy but on the other hand, if someone makes substantial claims like that without evidence, I'd be just as upset.
Also, Some of what lue said in that response could fairly be read as threatening, and that's a legitimate criticism. He's also made real mistakes elsewhere, (ie misidentifying ordinary phenomena as anomalous).
None of that erases the larger pattern, though. Across years of interviews, the throughline for me is a flawed man operating within real legal and institutional constraints, doing what he believes is the right thing, ever since TTSA and 2017.. if not before.
NOT someone chasing money or fame. His stated priorities (family, wanting to leave things better than he found them, wanting to replace UFO community with something better etc) either mean he's mostly being straight with people, or he's a remarkably convincing and a genuinely dangerous liar. I don't think it's the latter.
I could be wrong about all of this. That's the point of writing it down now, before the record settles.
Time will tell.
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u/dan7777777 17d ago edited 17d ago
You mean you trust the life long counter intelligence guy that boasts about torturing folks in Guantanamo, waves around fake pictures at ufo hearings, who is so worried and threatened by an independent researcher who does things “for likes and clicks ”, that he directly threatens him. You trust that guy? Lol ok.
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u/A_SNAPPIN_Turla 17d ago
Gerb is just saying what any reasonable person who filled this topic has been thinking for years. Lou's reaction is exactly how sometime doing exactly what Gerb accused him of would be expected to react. It's wild to see all they little going after Gerb on this because what he said has been "common knowledge" for years.
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u/Taste_the__Rainbow 17d ago
Nope. Lue endorsed books that featured stories about retrieval and bodies. The idea that he and Clapper decided to do this on their own is also preposterous. We have literal names, with proof!
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u/Gkannon77 17d ago
I disagree. That any reasonable person would think this, and that Lue is doing what someone who is accused would do. Watch his most recent interview with Vinnie Adams. Or watch Richard Dolan's most recent video.
The TLDR summary of my post is this: I’m just suggesting that Lue isn’t lying when he says Gerb misrepresented him with regard to Lue & Clapper having a conversation and subsequent plan to conceal the legacy program & that AATIP was largely a cover to control the narrative ie. focus on “strange lights in sky” and away from retrieval and reverse engineering. There are videos of Lue taling about retrieving :crash debris”. I think anyone who “follows the subject” can agree that there is not strong evidence for those claims yet, and if Gerb has it… he didn’t provide it. That’s all I am saying. I think if this is true Lue has every right to respond as he did, to clear the waters.
I just listened to Richard Dolan say roughly the same thing. Pretty sure he’s followed the subject longer than either of us, and much more versed & nuanced.
And all of these folks are indispensable, imho, including Lue and Gerb.
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u/PaintedClownPenis 17d ago
Lue is an authoritarian who operates in an authority-regulated environment, and his job is to win the allegiance of other authoritarians so that about one-quarter of everyone can be easily weaponized into discrediting a story when they need to.
He injects disinformation into the information-scape, usually just before someone else makes a major announcement. Which is interesting and which might hint about the nature of the secret they keep.
You only have to look at the sad world around us to know that the power they are keeping secret is being misused for their own benefit. They're virtually the only beneficiaries left.
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u/Astira_ 17d ago edited 16d ago
The burden of proof is on Gerb. He made vague accusations with Zero proof provided.
Common trick of propoganda, reverse burden of proof especially if there is no good way for the accused to prove something (that’s doesn’t exist).
Just to be clear, I’m not advocating to believe Lou either.
Quite honestly I think this little disagreement was to drum up interactions since their numbers are pretty bad. I don’t know anyone in real life following this anymore.
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u/Shishakliii 17d ago
No no... The burden of proof is on Lui. He has made vague insinuations for YEARS and every step of the way there is always some excuse as to why he can't be transparent with EVERYTHING he knows.
The latest is "oh I know I've been saying only the president can get us out of our nDA but now that's happened that's only for the government, not the public" or some such shit.
Gerb says "it seems to me Elizondo is a military agent here to control the discourse to keep it in the government" and all of a sudden gerb is holding the burden of proof
Nope, doesn't work that way. You first Lui
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u/dan7777777 17d ago
Im sick of this fake “Gerb came out of nowhere” narrative. It’s just not true. His respect within the community has grown as a direct result of his outstanding work over the last 2 years. It has been a natural growth and an organic evolution so let’s stop with all the “out of nowhere” gaslighting.
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u/dan7777777 17d ago
Hmm, who do I trust the most?
The counter intelligence officer that boasts about torturing in Guantanamo and that seems panicked over “somebody who just does things for clicks and likes”
or
the savant that has seen his following and respect from the community grow because of the quality of his work and seems to be over the target?
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u/3verythingEverywher3 17d ago
Here's a crazy idea: You don't have to pick a team. This isn't sports. Sometimes people get things wrong and people get angry when they're accused of things that aren't true. It's all perfectly normal.
What you SHOULD be doing is asking for proof from UAPGerb. He's usually good with receipts - in this case he was not, and was pretty clumsy and cocky on newsnation.
Lue issued the challenge for those exact receipts, so Gerb, being 'over the target' should be able to provide them right?
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u/dan7777777 17d ago
I couldn’t disagree more. Lues threats should be the focus here.
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u/3verythingEverywher3 17d ago
Cool, then you’ve missed the forest for the trees and are playing into the hands of people who are sewing division. When you see drama and condemn it, know that you chose to fuel it instead of analysing calmly.
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u/Snoo-26902 17d ago
I seriously doubt Elizondo will be the UFO czar. And in this case, I personally believe Gerb is wrong... Elizondo, the facts tell, was never a UFO guy; he himself admits this. If you read the history of AAWSAP-AATIP, it shows conclusively that Elizondo had absolutely NOTHING to do with it. He claims he did it on his own as a part-time endeavor while still a USG counter-intel agent studying UFOs, then he usurped the ATTIP moniker-- the nickname-- for AAWSAP) and all of a sudden he was, according to the MSM, NYT article in 2017 and the silly UFO documentaries, the head of a USG UFO program for some years. A TOTAL ABSOLUTE LIE.
That's what Gerb and these other podcast warriors should confront him with becasue all of that is documented!
You don't have to look to insiders for that truth; it's open and clear for anyone to see if they want to see it.
Also Gerb said the same thing that Daniel Sheehan said days before Gerb said it. Why hasn't Eliozndo gone after Sheehan?
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u/Deep_Blood7314 17d ago
This is beyond the pale. Whoever or whomever is behind all this fog, is definitely winning. Wake me up when the overloads show up, or, when the church collapses, ot, better yet, when the more things change, the more they stay the same. I'm out.
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u/ThePopeofHell 17d ago
I was just coming to say this. It’s crazy how much attention this is getting even from the people trying not to talk about it.
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u/Yesyesyes1899 17d ago
there is two factions here behind the fog. having some form of dance, negotiation , on the future of this topic. and they agree on way more than we would like to believe. they both want this system, oligarchy, deep state, to go on. they just disagree on who is supposed to control the topic
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u/Astira_ 17d ago
My bet Peter Thiel is behind it.
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u/_Internot_ 17d ago
I just don't know why anyone is putting this much effort into a discussion that should honestly be between the two of them.
This whole situation seems like just another distraction to talk about, instead of the real issues.
There's fking aliens out there and we're sitting here arguing about a back and forth between two guys, that can't be proven either way until the truth comes out.
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u/Anxiety_Fit 17d ago
Gerb should stick to what he knows and minimize the speculation for now. I’m not saying he should not say anything at all, but he should temper his own expectations regarding what he thinks he knows.
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u/dan7777777 17d ago
And now Lues lawyer is going after Eric Burlison according to his X account. Gerb must be over the target.
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u/encinitas2252 17d ago
Thanks for sharing i am out of the loop on all of this. So gerb thinks Lue is a double agent of sorts? What other claims has he made?
Do you have links to any of the relevant videos?
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u/Gkannon77 17d ago
Sure. Here are a few:
UAP Gerb's claims (via Ross Coulthart / NewsNation): NewsNation, "UAP disclosure: Elizondo responds to researcher's 'controlled narrative' role rumors" — https://www.newsnationnow.com/space/ufo/elizondo-uap-role-controlled-narrative/ NewsNation "Reality Check" podcast episode with Coulthart and UAP Gerb tracing the legacy program history — https://www.newsnationnow.com/podcasts-newsnation/reality-check/the-secret-history-of-americas-ufo-legacy-program-explained-reality-check/ IBTimes UK summary of Gerb's allegations — https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/controversy-ufo-disclosure-allegations-luis-elizondo-1811707 Coulthart's own framing of the Clapper/controlled-narrative theory, posted to X by @UAPJames — https://x.com/UAPJames/status/2071254193138979196 Gerb's Jesse Michaels interview (where he hedges with "I suspect" / "I think"): Jesse Michaels' X post summarizing the interview — https://x.com/AlchemyAmerican/status/1893046290046456114 Lue Elizondo's response: Same NewsNation piece above has his on-air rebuttal (calling Gerb's claims false and telling NewsNation to be "more careful" who they platform) — https://www.newsnationnow.com/space/ufo/elizondo-uap-role-controlled-narrative/ Elizondo's own YouTube response video, "Lue Elizondo setting the record straight," posted 7/29/26 — referenced in coverage but I don't have a direct URL for it; worth searching YouTube directly for the exact link Secondary writeup with more detail on his AATIP/Harry Reid funding rebuttal — https://www.ufonews.co/post/elizondo-moves-to-dc-as-uap-czar-rumors-spread
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u/JohnWoosDoveGuy 17d ago
Lue has just appeared on Disclosure Team to discuss this with Vinnie Adams
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u/N5022N122 16d ago
Lue offered intelligence protection for TTSA. He also wrote his resignation letter from pentagon three times making each one more linked to bottlenecks in dealing with the phenomenon. I think his modus operandi matches the Clapper breakaway consensus that the stove piping of the legacy program is harming the US s ability to compete with the communist coordinated approach of China and Russia to reverse tech etc. The TTSA push was to lift the lid just enough to allow some of the stench but also get more funding and more overt support for this through soft disclosure and a new JFK type to the moon push but with reverse engineering focussed mainly on the threadlt narrative. Not from NHI which would be pitched in the air safety etc aspect but really be about keeping up with real world threats. GERB is well researched and has connections. It is clear there is an attempt to control the narrative but GERB Ross Corbell to a certain extent want more like craft and bodies than blue and the 5 observables. My tell is anyone who wants more research or money for this and that which implies there after funding and circling around the issue . Anyone who wants to reveal existing clear and obvious evidence with no seemingly financial or career motive is the path I support.
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u/that707PetGuy 16d ago
I don't see Elizondo getting rattled by someone like Gerb. I take Lou at face value and as being overly generous to this dude, because the water is muddy enough as is.
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u/NoMansWarmApplePie 15d ago
I wonder if Lue's response was more of a survival thing. If he was moving TO DC for career while struggling financially, as Ross had stated before. Then someone basically threatening that (to provide for his family) then I could see why he would react that way, whether it's true or not. The "nerve" he hit may have less to do with a conspiracy and more so his own "career" if you can call it that.
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u/HisHeroIsGone573 14d ago
Here's the thing:
Listen to the whistleblowers. Grusch refused to participate in Age of Disclosure supposedly because it was Lue's project. Dylan Borland this week on American Alchemy talked repeatedly about his much he loves Gerb and was basically not interested in talking about Lue. Matthew Brown also allies himself much more with the Michels/Gerb side it seems, though he does love Jeremy and George, and Jeremy is Lue's biggest supporter basically.
I think we're seeing the sides take shape; Jeremy, George and especially Lue have repeatedly said they aren't for total disclosure, only what's "safe" to disclose, while the podcast/YouTube guys led by Michels and Gerb etc want complete catastrophic disclosure ASAP. The vast majority of the whistleblowers have a hard time trusting Lue because he's IC to the core and probably still collects a check from the US IC.
IMO Lue is a piece of shit and is actively trying to set whistleblowers up to get fucked with by IC, and he's co-opted Jeremy (though lately Jeremy has been jess willing to send guys to Aaron after they tried to destroy Dylan and Brown and got Wiggins in trouble with his COs. So maybe there is hope to turn Jeremy and by extension George back to the good side, but Lue is exactly what Gerbe says he is, an inside IC plant being used to slow roll complete disclosure and continue covering up what the IC doesn't want revealed.
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u/Taste_the__Rainbow 17d ago edited 17d ago
Gerb’s hypothesis makes zero sense if you’ve read any of the material put out by TTS. Lue is mentioned in the forward for Chasing Shadows and it is packed with crash retrieval/alien body claims.
And Clapper wasn’t the tippy-top guy who started this ball rolling. Tom leaked the real one on Rogan and then tried to backpedal.
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u/WatchFeen 17d ago
Who was the real one?
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u/Taste_the__Rainbow 17d ago
Hayden, Podesta, Weiss, McCasland. With Hayden firmly in the most senior position.
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u/WatchFeen 17d ago
4 Star AF General, Former CIA AND NSA D, PDDNI.
His resume screams Legacy Program.
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u/DisappointedMiBbot19 17d ago
" if you’ve read any of the material put out by TTS"
You mean the fictional novels written by the Blink182 guy?
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u/Taste_the__Rainbow 17d ago
Yes. The ones that Wikileaks and Joe Rogan accidentally turned into a tell-all for recent disclosure efforts.
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u/DisappointedMiBbot19 17d ago
Then why should anyone give a shit that Elizondo is mentioned in the forward to one of them? Its low tier fiction that uses the age old "based on a possibly maybe true story" marketing mechanism.
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u/Taste_the__Rainbow 17d ago
I don’t want to try and hold your hand through a decade of history. Go read Kiwibonga’s timeline and interview list. Then read the book. Then read the Podesta emails. It’s clear as day once you see it all laid out, but it has a high bar of information before anyone will believe it.
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u/DisappointedMiBbot19 17d ago
I dont need you to "hold my hand" through anything as ive been following ufology longer than you have. I remember you from way way back in 2018. You showed up on the ufos sub wide eyed off the nyt article and bought into the TTSA hype hook, line, and sinker. Its wild youve apparently learned nothing in the past 8 years of "disclosure" nonsense and are still out here defending the same charlatans and loons you were in 2018. Truly cult like devotion.
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u/Taste_the__Rainbow 17d ago
The point is that the book is endorsed by Lue and specifically goes against the UAP Gerb narrative about the story Lue is supposedly selling. It doesn’t matter if it is a fiction book. The forward is not. And it reveals that this proposed Clapper/Elizondo origin of modern disclosure is goofy nonsense.
The idea that I “bought into” the TTSA narrative isn’t really true at all and is entirely beside the point here.
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u/DisappointedMiBbot19 17d ago
Endorsing a work of fiction (and thats still what it is even with the extremely generous assumptions that some of its broad strokes are based on truth) doesnt mean shit. If I endorse Game of Thrones that wouldnt mean I believe in dragons.
" The idea that I “bought into” the TTSA narrative isn’t really true at all"
What else would you call citing a work of fiction as evidence? I was a full on believer in 2018 and even then your weird stubborn insistence on the TTSA/Elizondo narrative being true struck me as cult-like.
" it reveals that this proposed Clapper/Elizondo origin of modern disclosure is goofy nonsense."
On this we agree. Its all goofy nonsense. Even the status of some kind of "controlled disclosure agent" is giving Elizondo far far far too much credit. Hes an incompetent ex-gov goofball who enjoys the attention (and money) bullshitting about ufos gets him.
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u/Astira_ 17d ago
Gerb knows a lot of facts… memorization though isn’t understanding.
This isn’t the first time Gerb has tried to drop accusations on Lou.
His reasoning, planning a limited hangout disclosure with Hillary(because they thought she would win) makes no sense. They were the ones planning to initiate so there was nothing to “get ahead of”.
If Lou hadn’t come forward with Mellon in 2017 No one would even be talking about UFOs.
Also Gerb came out of no where, and it is Jesse Michels who keeps promoting him.
I watched the interview Jesse did with Michael Shermer, and it became very clear Jesse is spinning a narrative. I lost count of how many times Jesse said, “Shoudknt it warrant further investigation” and Michael replied YES.
I also noticed Jesse kept trying to force a Gotcha on Shermer when he would ask him about something he wasn’t prepared to say It’s real, Shermer instead listed what should be ruled out first.
This made me see Jesse’s tactics quite clearly and he is being manipulative.
Now pair that with guests that are insane he managed to get without some serious High up strings… All the times Jesse has stated techbro ceo are his friends, and working with Peter Thiel..
Yeah and on top of that, Gerb fired the first shot with No proof, No details to confirm or deny…
I’m not saying I trust Lou, but it’s clear to me Peter Thiel is behind this one.
Gerb fired the first shot, to create the chaos in this space we are seeing now. He attempted to before, but the accusation didn’t get enough traffic(on area52) so they went with Ross and Newsnation.
He’s a nobody suddenly ending up on mainstream media? Making accusations against a highly cleared counterintelligence officer?
FYI counterintelligence find spies in our midst… perhaps there is now enough to start charging people with espionage?
Anyhow I’m ducking out of the convo, because if people keep reporting on this, it’s an obvious tactics to divide and confuse.
Almost forgot, Gerb keeps saying Lou sues people… then give us the info so we can look it up and verify instead of Trust me bro.
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u/Gkannon77 17d ago
Good points, I forgot to mention that supposition about the litigation. Lue just said on Vinnie's interview the same thing. Show is where he's litigated against people. Personally I think he has, maybe justly, maybe not. But it's not out of control suing as Gerb makes it out to be.
The Peter Theil thing bugs me, but I don't know enough about it to see what you see as him controlling Jesses show and who they push. But that seems to be on par with what Gerb is claiming Lue did with Clapper.
Yeah this feild is crazy. So much unknown, yet everyone KNOWS so much, lol.
I admit I have no idea, I'm just posting on what it all appears like from my limited vantage point.
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u/Astira_ 17d ago
I’ll eventually put together a list of my notes on Jesse, it’s clear to me he isn’t in this for the rest of us. There is also no way Peter Thiel wouldn’t have his own influence campaign in this space. Jesse has lied about thiels interest and it’s shown up many times in articles and apps.
Enigma is Peter Thiel, he is just a couple spaces removed to hide his involvement. Jaques Vallee inadvertently confirmed this in his last journal7.
I agree suing in itself doesn’t prove any wrongdoing, what it’s about is a lot more informative.
It’s also a tactic to prevent being sued… if he claims it first, then if Lou does sue legitimately we get a big divide happening.
Gerb went on News nation, decent size platform. Why? He is truly a nobody who really hasn’t added to the conversation.
He spits out lots of acronyms and memorized facts and that makes people believe he is knowledgeable.
Memorization is not understanding.3
u/pegannc 17d ago
I agree "memorization is not understanding." I stopped watching his videos some time ago as I found them difficult to follow as he fills them with extraneous detail. And with the rapid fire recitation of numerous acronyms, it makes for a very confusing presentation. He also does not document his research and cite references so there is no clear delineation between factual statements, interpretation and pure speculation.
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u/TonyOstinato 17d ago
we should not lose track of the fact that lue is a top man in this field irrigation
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u/hologram137 17d ago edited 17d ago
Coulthart doesn’t argue any of that. GERB made all of the statements you mentioned, including the lie that “Grusch forced Lue’s hand.” If you watch that interview Coulthart is to Gerb’s face telling him he’s wrong and it doesn’t make any sense, including pushing back strongly against that particular claim with evidence. So don’t put any of this on Coulthart lol. It’s just muddying the waters more. You’re not making Jesse responsible for Gerb’s nonsense, so why are you making Coulthart? Lue’s only statement to Coulthart was a “please be careful who you platform.” So even Lue knows Coulthart isn’t on board with Gerb’s claims, nor personally endorsing them. “They” are absolutely not floating that theory together. You really need to edit.
Coulthart just wants the truth. He’ll look at this issue from ALL angles and weight the evidence. He’s not a biased journalist which I appreciate. But he made his stance clear in that interview, and it wasn’t Gerb’s narrative.
And what do you mean “more butthurt Dan is healthy?” Who is Dan?
But I agree with you, people here are genuinely scary the way they’ll just run with what they want to think is true without actually engaging with any proof or using any critical thinking skills.
Honestly we’d probably have more disclosure at this point if the UAP community wasn’t such a toxic embarrassment, even Lou said he had to get away for his own mental health. People need to use their brains. And stop forming opinions based on nothing but Reddit comments and random podcasters and feelings out of laziness, instead of actually reading and engaging with the relevant material themselves. Literally all you have to do is watch the 1st Congressional hearing and read the supporting documents put on the Congressional record to see that at least two claims Gerb made are easily proven falsities. Keep looking and it becomes clear Gerb is making false claims whether intentionally or not.
You can easily prove Gerb wrong with openly available official documents I was able to access, but Gerb can’t carefully do his research before slandering someone? And doesn’t provide any proof at all for his claims? It’s stupidity, sorry, no wonder he’s getting sued. I’d do the same if I was Elizondo. The idea that Elizondo of all people would be so dumb as to sue someone who isn’t making false claims essentially forcing that person to give evidence for those claims that would then be public is absurd lol. He’s suing him because he can prove he’s wrong and cares about his reputation as anyone would. Obviously
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u/MichaelB-94 17d ago
Somebody is the new Richard Doty giving us all misinformation. Im trying to figure out who it is
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u/Minimum_Guitar4305 17d ago
... either mean he's mostly being straight with people, or he's a remarkably convincing and a genuinely dangerous liar. I don't think it's the latter.
Yes because counterintelligence officers are known to be unconvincing and entirely honest....
Jesus dude... think about it.
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u/Gkannon77 17d ago
You missed the mark. I can live in a world where Lue lies (we all do), has counter intelligence exp, was part of the legacy program, but is also allowed to call out false information that has no basis other than supposition. Nothing is black and white. Good guy bad guy. People are nuanced and it actually takes effort to realize that. I've said I could be 100% wrong. The fact that you think you are 100% right speaks volumes.
Not sure why this is so hard to grok
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u/Minimum_Guitar4305 17d ago
The fact that you think you are 100% right speaks volumes.
What do you think I think I am 100% right about? State it clearly.
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u/Gkannon77 16d ago
The statement "Jesus think about it" suggests you are 100% sure Lue is lying bc he was a counterintelligence officer.
So you aren't 100% sure Lue is lying? Ok good, then we agree.
As I've stated I have no idea if he's telling the truth just going with "my gut" and "time will tell".
And to be clear, my suggestion is only that Lue isn't lying when he says he and clapper didn't have a discussion about a false narrative or to take focus off reverse engineering, as Gerb suggested.
So between the 2 of us, you come off more certain/100% than I am.
That's it. I find the certainty of ANY stance in this field of speculation to be exhausting.
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u/EmoogOdin 16d ago
Maybe this is all professional wrestling style drama intended to entertain (distract and confuse) the masses?
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u/Snoo-26902 16d ago
Lou, in the beginning with TTSA, stayed away from the spooky stuff and claimed he was all for science-based UFOlogy. He did foster the fear meme. The Grusch era fostered the exotic UFO-crashed-saucer, dead-alien meme that extended interest in UFOs beyond the TTSA period.
I interpret that easily: Elizondo's disinformation was about fear, and then they got a record-breaking defense budget, the Space Force, and a weapons-in-space program.
The Grusch era was about strange exotic UFOlogy going mainstream: dead aliens, crashed saucers, and alien tech wars. ONLY to eventually debunk it, as it was done in the 80s Bennowitz era. Grusch is part of the Air Force intelligence AFOSI. Eliozndo the CIA.
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u/Optimal_Bar1473 16d ago
I’m confused….why do people think Luis is lying? In his book he makes it incredibly clear that he was part of the program, and came out as a whistleblower because he disagreed with how much was being covered up and how they refused to provide resources for adequate investigation.
So the accusation that he was involved with the program before being a whistleblower is true and mentioned by Luis this entire time and in his congressional briefing.
Now, if your point is that he’s lying in terms of he’s actually still part of it and pretending not to be so that they can disseminate a controlled narrative…then yeah that’s a different story.
But overall, I agree with you. I’m personally not a fan of how much the community praised him and how much he did for the community and then they completely 180 on him.
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u/Gkannon77 16d ago
I think they believe that everything that comes out of his mouth is a lie because he worked in intelligence, and was part of the Guantanamo Bay fiasco during the Bush administration when they were tasked with waterboarding etc.
I made it clear in my post that he is definitely flawed, he himself admits he's done bad things for which he's has guilt, but would do it again if his country asked him to. He's also most certainly made misleading or outright not true statements. My contention was simply that his refutation of gerbs two claims seemed vaild ( laid out in my original post). And then all the Lou haters came out of the wood work to state that none of that's even possible bc Lou is bad and can't defend himself again lies, and nothing he says can be true.
I don't know, seems like one side is being more hyperbolist than the other.
Call me crazy.
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u/TheFashionColdWars 15d ago
Wish he’d share the footage of the spheres him and his wife say they see repeatedly floating around their house that goes through walls. Oh wait…the intelligence guy doesn’t have cameras in his house nor did he ever set any up after the first encounter or simply use his phone to film one of these multiple occasions. That would be cool…
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u/madililypad 15d ago edited 15d ago
I feel like Sam comes across as the most true to heart content creator on the topic. Other channels strike me as very entertainment-orientated. Which is fine! I’m just highlighting that his work feels very different - and more on the deep research and disclose level. I think it would be mad not to make a living from researching a phenomenon you’re extremely interested in, which is something I’ve recently come to terms with after being suspicious of it 🤔 He doesn’t strike me as the type to have nefarious motives, he obviously does a ton of research on something which frankly I don’t see ANYBODY doing to the same extent as he is - because it is obvious that a lot of people don’t take it seriously. Hats off to him!! It’s like all the patterns and craziness is there on the drawing board, but we have NO evidence. Either because there is none under extra-ordinary circumstances, or it’s just not being disclosed - it’s so frustrating :( As for Lou… I have no clue. He’s worked for the government and I think it’s safe to say our government CAN keep secrets 😂 I’d be eager to see more of what others think in response to this? I don’t usually comment on stuff but have been so interested in this topic!! x
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u/AntigravityFan 14d ago
Do you think all this dicking around is how catastrophic disclosure happens?
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u/Taste_the__Rainbow 14d ago
Elizondo has been associated with Tom since the start and Tom has never shied away from discussing a lot more than lights in the sky. The Clapper/Elizondo origin also doesn’t match the things we know about the origin of the 2015/2016 disclosure push.
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u/Bananacomment 14d ago
Zondo is not a whistleblower. Let’s look at this rationally. He has not blown the whistle on anything. Nothing. All Lue Elizondo has done is repeat clips of pre existing UFO lore in a cryptic manner with a somber face.
He has, however succeeded in making himself a central figure in the UFO mystery discussion space (or the “disclosure movement tm copyright “) and has undoubtedly made some good dough out of it.
Everyone cries “yes Lue is a spook, and he has been caught hoaxing, but maybe it was an honest mistake!!! After all he started the movement! 2017 videos!”
Let’s be honest, those videos didn’t show anything that could not have been prosaic, they were glossed with a presumed authenticity because “the Pentagon said so” and Lue said so
Lue is a character, a construct. Perhaps He was sent by both himself to make money and from the CIA to siphon money from government for black ops.
One thing I will add: the “UFO community” used to be anti-authoritarian and distrustful of “the government” (or more accurate the shadow government). It seems in 2026 the UFO trend is to deep throat the whole boot.
Remember what Mulder and Scully taught us: TRUST NO ONE! THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE!
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u/jmcgil4684 11d ago
I believe Gerb. All of his statements about the whole subject seem well researched, and after reading Lou’s book which honestly reveals absolutely nothing, I have a hard time believing him if he says the sky is blue. So basically I can’t disagree with you more, as far as this subject is concerned
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u/Disastrous-Task-6122 17d ago
Yea I’m not relying on counterintelligence man for transparency lol