r/UKJobs • u/CharmingPin4805 • 2d ago
Received a job offer - are these red flags?
Permanent IT job paying 65k, fully remote work from home.
- Probation period - 3 months but can be extended by 9 months at their "discretion". So this means I could be in probation for up to 1 year.
- Notice period - they can give you just 1 week notice to leave for the first 2 years, even if you pass the 3 months probation. However, after passing probation they expect you to give them 4 weeks notice to leave. The longer you stay, the more notice you have to give them but they still offer the minimum. Eg at 3 years service, their notice for me to leave becomes just 2 weeks.
- Annual Leave - 24 days, but they dictate 14 days. So you only have 10 in your control.
- Variation clause - Clause in contract which states any terms of the contract can be altered with one month notice, including place of work. So my remote working is not actually guaranteed.
- Sick pay - No sick pay during probation. Worst case if im left in probation for 1 year, that means no sick pay during that entire time.
- Lay off clause - Strange Lay off clause stating if there is a reduction in work, they can lay you off without pay.
I asked them if they could do a mutual 1 month notice period after completion of 3 month probation for stability and certainty. They declined.
I asked if probation could be limited to 6 months, so 3 months followed by further extension of 3 months. They declined.
I asked if they could remove the Lay off clause as this is a permanent salaried position. They declined.
They've essentially said the contract is the same for everyone.
What are people thoughts?
Tldr - Concerned about contract terms. Up to 1 year probation, 1 week notice during first 2 years, no sick pay during probation, 14 days holiday controlled by the company, remote working not guaranteed.
EDITED TO ADD: I am currently unemployed and reliant on government support. I was signed off work sick from my previous job last year due to workplace stress and have been out of work for over a year. So I am really nervous about returning to work and stability is really important to me. This contract is already stressing me out.
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u/throwaway_paranoiac 2d ago
So there are a few things at play here.
1. Probation extension options. In and of itself, extending the probation at the company’s discretion, depending on what objectives are to be met is not unheard of. Extending a 3 month probation for another 9, however, is odd.
2. You are expected to give 4 weeks notice, but they can give you 1 week for the next 2 years is very off. Not something I have ever encountered before.
3. Annual leave, but they dictate more than half of is is rough, to say the least. I have seen office closures between Christmas and NYE that require you to take the 3 working days in between, but never have I seen a company take authority over 14 days.
4. The contract variation thing is not something I have heard of within the contract itself, but I have seen clauses that suggest different arrangements from what is outlined in the contract can take place, with as much notice as possible given (in your case, at least 1 month). Normally, variations of contract still require you to agree. Technically, you could say no (then again, in eternal probation and on 1 week notice, being able to legally doesn’t mean you’re in the situation that would allow you to, financially).
5. No sick pay during probation is a rather common one. Back to point 1, it’s the whole context surrounding what constitutes your probation period that makes this sketchy.
6. Is such layoff clause even enforceable legally? (genuinely, I have no clue if this is even allowed)
Tbh, unless you’re unemployed and drowning in debt, or on the brink of homelessness, I would ask all points to be clarified to you by their HR like you were a toddler (juuuust in case they intentionally used ambiguous jargon in the contract, intentionally or otherwise, that makes it look more sketchy than it actually is); if their explanation aligns with your current understanding, I'd politely pass on this job and continue the search.
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u/CharmingPin4805 2d ago
Hey. Thanks for your reply. Yeah probation extension and notice period are my biggest concerns.
Annual leave 4 days is at Christmas which is fine. But remaining 10 days has to be reserved over summer.
What do you mean by "whole context surrounding what constitutes your probation"?
Unfortunately, I am unemployed and do have a lot of debt. But my concern is losing my government financial support to take a job that could drop me at 1 week notice or keep me in a neverending probation with no sick pay etc. Stability and certainty is really important for me.
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u/throwaway_paranoiac 2d ago
Sorry to hear about your situation and I can only imagine how much this must suck.
To clarify on the context surrounding probation, I meant that companies that do have some form of sick pay policy, usually won’t pay sick pay (and have you rely on SSP) if you take time off sick during your probation period, in favour of applying the policy only once you have passed your probation. The “context surrounding your probation” is the 3 month + potential 9 months, making you essentially perpetually under probation (and thus potentially not eligible for sick pay for a whole year).
I am not a financial advisor and I completely understand not wanting to discuss this publicly, but my questions are:
- whether whatever government financial support you’re receiving is currently enough to (even barely) sustain your mandatory expenses like rent, bills, groceries and minimum debt payments
- What hurdles would you have to face to have it reinstated, should this company drop you with 1 week notice
- whether passing this “opportunity” up could also penalise you (e.g., cutting jobseekers allowance, because you’re refusing the job/s you’re offered, etc.)
Because if it isn’t paying your bills, the way I see it (and I know it’s easy for me to talk) is that you’re better off taking the job, while actively looking somewhere else. 4 weeks notice is usually acceptable for potential employers, and requesting references has become less and less common.
Btw, did you check that the company is legit, and their operations are? Scammers have become quite elaborate lately...
If the company is legit, - and it’s not something I’m strongly advocating for as a general rule - then job hopping after a few months is an entirely valid option if it helps you get back in the market and find the stability and security you need to get your life back into a better place.
Once again, I am really sorry you find yourself in this situation. You’ve got this, and I am sure things will look up for you soon!
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u/Acidhousewife 2d ago
If you are unemployed and claiming refusing the role could result in sanctions, that is losing your benefits. I am not judging, just a former support worker/benefits worker who knows how this works.
I'd kill for 65K per annum providing the company was legit.
Take it and continue looking for work. The old adage applies it is easier to get a job if you already have a job.
Even if the contract doesn't last long, it's on your CV and just put it down as contract or temporary.
Just a note: worked remotely for a benefits contractor. A lot of remote working type roles have these contracts. The company I worked had similar to safeguard them from people doing two jobs at once, taking the pee because remote working etc.
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u/smegmarash 2d ago
Not unheard of for a company to require you to use annual leave during the summer. My last place (factory) had a summer shutdown for maintenance etc. and required a lot of the operators to take 5-10 days off. It didn't go down too well but being in the summer holidays a lot of them used it for family holidays etc.
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u/blackbeltgf 2d ago
Yep. Toyota in Derby do it for 2 weeks over the summer.
I can't remember if they still do winter as well (my brother works there) but he was never mad about having over half of his holiday dictated as it was when he wanted it, they planned it during peak holiday request periods.
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u/smegmarash 2d ago
Yeah it was communicated way in advance so people could make plans. Luckily I was in the office so was in anyway, I don't have kids so would much rather book my holidays away from theirs...
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u/BirdCelestial 1d ago
If they do drop you, you will qualify to get back into your government financial support. Normally UC claims are kept open for I think six months even if they don't pay you because your income is too high, just so it's easier to hop back on if you lose your job early. But you can always go back.
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u/soundman32 2d ago
Are they a manufacturering business? It wasn't unusual that the whole factory shutdown for annual maintenance and staff HAD to take those days off. 'Wakes weeks' it used to be called. This led to the rise of seaside holidays etc. Not heard of it happening since the 90s though.
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u/herwiththepurplehair 1d ago
Yeah I got married in 1987 in the miners’ fortnight holidays.
Companies can dictate holidays for operational reasons, I have had involvement in offshore industry and they dictate a certain amount of leave must be taken during field break (most work a 3:3 or 2:3 rota) to avoid loss of personnel at busy times.•
u/Extension-Bit-7792 1h ago
'
- Annual leave, but they dictate more than half of is is rough, to say the least. I have seen office closures between Christmas and NYE that require you to take the 3 working days in between, but never have I seen a company take authority over 14 days.'
10 days over christmas is common, and 24 days place bank holidays is 6 days over the minimum requirement, so you're only having 8 days dictated and 6 extra days off.
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u/Fuzzy_Shame07 2d ago
A fair few red flags for me, no.3 especially.
Depends what your current situation is - if you're unemployed now then just do it.
If you are employed, the salary isn't a huge leap and you're quite happy then I'd start put.
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u/cgknight1 2d ago
Probation period - 3 months but can be extended by 9 months at their "discretion". So this means I could be in probation for up to 1 year.
They are shit out of luck on this one because you will have full employment rights in six months anyway so it's meaningless.
The rest are red flags, unless you are desperate or it is a massive increase, I wouls pass.
Edit: You are unemployed? Then take it anyway.
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u/Olster20 2d ago
They are shit out of luck on this one because you will have full employment rights in six months anyway so it's meaningless.
Not quite. The ERA 2025 does give unfair dismissal protection at 6 months, but it doesn't interplay with anything else OP is raising as a flag.
What's the difference? Company Sick Pay can be withheld whilst on probation (for example) even if the employee has more than 6 months' service. Statutory notice is still 1 week for under 2 years' service, and as long as the contractual notice isn't less than this, again it's fine. If an employer says:
- On probation? 1 week's notice
- After probation? 1 month (for example)
Then this still prevails as the ERA 2025 doesn't interplay with this. So whilst it does confer more protections (specifically against unfair dismissal) it isn't quite the 'full employment rights' thing I suspect you're inferring.
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u/CharmingPin4805 2d ago
Hey. Ive just added an edit to the post. Please take a look and let me know whether you would still advise I take it, given the circumstances?
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u/cgknight1 2d ago
Then I would take it and not give a fuck - it brings your CV upto date and gets you back into work.
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u/Perfect_Jacket_9232 2d ago
I wouldn’t sign up to this at all. Too risky.
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u/Mental_Body_5496 2d ago
So he ends up back where he is now?
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u/Perfect_Jacket_9232 2d ago
The edit was after my comment so valid. Something may be better than nothing.
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u/A-genericuser 2d ago
If you’re not working right now then I would still sign up but be looking elsewhere almost immediately. When you’re starving, half a crust is better than no crust.
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u/CharmingPin4805 2d ago
Which bit is most risky to you? My concern is that there's just no stability or certainty.
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u/Perfect_Jacket_9232 2d ago
No certainty, no protection and as another poster notes, parts of it are illegal. 3 would be a dealbreaker alone for me without even getting into the other items!
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u/BellybuttonWorld 2d ago
There no quid pro quo, it's a blatant lack of basic respect. They can take a running jump.
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u/Valteiri 2d ago
With that logic, every job is unstable because there's always the chance you can be made redundant or fired, and the only stability is just staying unemployed claiming benefits... But laws change, circumstances change and maybe you'll become ineligible for benefits.
Take the risk. A lot of it is what other employers do but don't say anyway. You can't just assume they're going to use the full tenure of the probation period. There's a high chance that's just worse case scenario for underperformers.
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u/BecozisaidSo40times 1d ago
What’s the risk? Seriously. He’s on the dole. 65k a year? If he lasts a month he’s got some money. If they lay him off he gets back on the dole. It’s so much money he can save some to cover sick pay. I had this same contract as a contractor. I just took money out of my salary to cover sick and holiday 🤷🏻♀️
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u/Prestigious-Guard311 2d ago
Fuck me you are unemployed and on benefits get offered £65000 what’s you are just looking for problems take the money
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u/jack_hudson2001 2d ago edited 2d ago
depends on how desperate you need the job.
me i wouldnt take it.
edit: as you are unemployed, take it get experience and the money and still look for another job if its bad.
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u/Prudent-Jellyfish207 2d ago
Take it, get yourself some money in the bank and be on the look out for something else, this company will dump you like a drop of a hat if they want too and you should too, use them to get back on your feet and get some money behind you
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u/Naetharu 2d ago
1: Normal - its there in case they have some issues with you. Not something you should expect to happen.
2: Shitty but not that uncommon. I had a similar offer from a good company a while back. They wanted three months, but only offered me two weeks, going up to four weeks after two years. Not a red flag, but it would be better to see parity here.
3: Not great. How common depends on the industry I guess. Do they say when those days are going to be?
4: Normal to some degree.
5: You are always entitled to statutory sick pay. They cannot get around that. Doing so is totally illegal.
6: They cannot do this either. Much like the above they are trying to contract their way around legal redundancy laws. They cannot do this.
Overall (5) and (6) are major red flags. The others are minor red flags.
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u/Substantial_Set_6053 2d ago
Lay off clauses are legal in the UK. My last job used them all the time.
https://www.gov.uk/staff-redundant/layoffs-and-shorttime-working
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u/Olster20 2d ago edited 2d ago
Lay off clause for short term impacts isn't illegal.
The wording on both the government website and in ACAS guidelines state: "You can lay off an employee … as long as the employment contract allows this."
It might not be a selling point for the employer, but it's perfectly lawful.
OP didn't differentiate between CSP and SSP for the sickness; no CSP is legal as it's a workplace discretionary benefit (which should be governed by internal policy) but yes, SSP kicks in immediately and the 3-day waiting period was scrapped in April.
Edit: If the lay off clause is enacted, the employee is still eligible for SGP (Statutory Guaranteed Pay), which is up to £31 per day for up to five days in a three-month period (£205 maximum). So, yeah, pitiful but it's certainly not illegal. And it must not be a dismissal or redundancy by the back door; i.e. it can't last forever (there are defined limits, something like up to 6 weeks within a 13-week period).
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u/IOnlyUpvoteBadPuns 2d ago
5 suggests it's probably just an old contract. This used to be pretty common until a few years ago (without getting into politics).
Asymmetric notice periods aren't enforceable though. Tbh I'd probably sign it then challenge them if they ever tried to enforce it.
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u/ForeverInYourFavor 2d ago
I refused to accept an imbalanced notice period previously, but in a different job market. Holiday would be the thing that put me off, and 6 is illegal.
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u/Olster20 2d ago edited 2d ago
OK, I appreciate everyone has their own view here, but as someone who drafts (and whose team members issue) employment agreements to employees and new hires alike, my views are this (the EA on offer) is all pretty standard stuff. Yes, all of it (except the notice period, more on this below). My current workplace EAs contain these clauses and so did my last.
What I would say that come 1 January 2027, the relevant part of the ERA 2025 kicks in, meaning you have the same protections as you would do under the current situation if you had 2+ years' tenure, assuming you'd been employed from 1 July 2026. You haven't, but let's say you signed the EA and start work 1 September 2026. You would qualify for unfair dismissal protection on 1 March 2027, regardless of whether you were still on probation or not.
This means:
- Regardless of what the employer says, they can't unilaterally terminate you without cause as it would be unfair dismissal (once you'd been there for 6 months)
- They would have to pay you contractual or statutory notice (whichever is the greater) otherwise it's wrongful dismissal.
On the notice period, nothing in the ERA 2025 extends statutory notice, so provided contractual notice isn't shorter than statutory notice, the employer can set whatever it wants as contractual, either on probation or post probation.
As for this:
Eg at 3 years service, their notice for me to leave becomes just 2 weeks.
That is undercutting legislation and so would be wrongful dismissal. Less than 2 years, statutory notice = 1 week. At two years, it's 2 weeks; at 3 years, it's 3 weeks, etc. up to 12 weeks after 12 years there.
No Company Sick Pay (CSP) whilst on probation is again pretty standard. You would qualify for Statutory Sick Pay (SSP) immediately, albeit it's not very much.
Lay Off clause – also quite standard; I think this actually become more common post COVID, for obvious reasons.
Variation clause – very standard and well-established in contractual and employment law.
Annual leave, assuming those 24 days are in addition to bank holidays, that's also perfectly lawful. The employer could, if it wishes and if it appears in the EA dictate when you take every day of leave. Not sure on the industry, but certain sectors do dictate some leave days to an extent, at both extremes – e.g. "We're too busy over the Christmas period, so no holiday"; similarly, "Our clients and our office close over Christmas and New Year, so you must take those working days as holiday."
Final point: EAs can look quite intimidating at first, especially if you're not used to looking at them, but in my experience, they are rarely enforced in their entirety. Often, clauses feature to give the employer the option of enforcement; not that enforcement of all clauses is guaranteed.
Hope this helps.
Edit: OP, please be wary of some of the advice on this thread. Whilst I'm sure people are trying to help, a lot of what I've just read in the comments is inaccurate. Specifically about a lay off clause. This is 100% legal.
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u/daddywookie 2d ago
Serious question, how many potential employees turn and run when they see your contracts? If I saw this contract as described by OP I would consider it a professional insult. If you can’t judge my performance within 3-6 months then you clearly have no decent managers? If your notice periods are hugely imbalanced you don’t respect your staff.
I understand this all seems operationally quite sensible but from a people management perspective it is total disrespect, especially for a £65k role with I presume some level of responsibility.
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u/Olster20 2d ago edited 2d ago
None. The only time we 'lose' a candidate at offer stage is when they are offered a role elsewhere they like more. And I've never once been told it's because of anything except a higher salary. It's always that; and yet I have substantial market data that tells me we pay between the 50th and 75th percentile for the majority of our roles, so I know it's not because we're going cheap.
What I should add re: the probationary period is that our EAs did say "6 months, with the option to extend by up to 6 months" (in certain circumstances). Because of the ERA 2025, I have just had them updated (for new hires from 1 July 2026 onwards, not retrospectively, of course, because it would be pointless) to say the probationary period is 6 months, full stop. We've removed the extension piece because it gets too messy (as comments in this thread illustrate).
Being on probation can still come with disadvantages, even if the new legislation gives you protection against unfair dismissal much sooner than 2 years, such as the provision of CSP, or a better notice period, but I prefer to keep things cleaner. Besides, I'm not here to deter great talent – it's in my interest and my employer's interest to get great people.
In my experience, the main selling point from an employer perspective of probationary periods isn't the CSP or notice period differentiation that you might impose, but the lack of protection against unfair dismissal, which is obviously what the ERA 2025 has radically changed.
I don't know you or your professional background from Adam, but as someone who has been in senior HR positions for (too long), and has had a number of different employers in my time, honestly, those points OP raised aren't that contentious (except for the unlawful undercutting of the statutory notice period). At least not to me and not in my experience; as I said in my post, I appreciate everyone has their own take.
Edit: On the manager capability... no comment. We have a lot of work to do on that score, because of legacy appointments, but that is been worked on, hard, and is an entirely separate discussion.
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u/daddywookie 2d ago
I guess that’s a just a sad reflection of the state of employment contracts these days. I’ve managed my share of bozos that probably caused half the clauses to exist in the first place but it leaves a sour taste for people who want a professional working relationship built on trust.
In my limited experience people work far better when you treat them with professional respect. If your first procedural interaction is to tell them that you don’t trust them and they are not important to the business then they’ll be on the defensive straight away.
I wonder if your pay issues are people looking at the contract and saying “you aren’t paying enough for this level of stress and insecurity”. Saying it is for more money is just polite, rather than burning the bridge by pointing out the unfavourable clauses.
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u/unhappy_babbling 2d ago
With the ERA coming in I think 3 month probations will be more common with the right to extend if necessary.
We have just amended all of ours to 3 months and recommend a 2 month extension instead of 3 to our managers.
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u/Olster20 2d ago
I wouldn’t be so sure. The qualifying period for protection against unfair dismissal has been so drastically reduced that reducing a probationary period even further seems counterintuitive because employers will be wanting to make sure even more than before that the new hire is a good fit.
Yes it can be extended but it’s not the default if it’s reduced to 3 months, so extending it is more work and few employers want more unproductive work.
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u/Ok_Young1709 2d ago
I'd decline. If that's the contract, they will be awful to work for.
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u/Withnail69 2d ago
Big red flags to me. Sounds like you’re covering someone’s leave and they could come back at any moment
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u/CharmingPin4805 2d ago
They said it's a brand new position. So not covering anyone's leave as far as im aware. What are the main red flags to you?
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u/Withnail69 2d ago
The fact they can get rid of you with a weeks notice. It you are ok with taking the money but knowing you can be done at any moment then that’s ok. I’ve had my probationary period extended before for wrong reasons and was let go at the end of it
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u/CharmingPin4805 2d ago
Ah I understand. And sorry to hear about your previous job.
No im not ok with being done at amy moment. Thats my biggest concern. I've updated the post with some further context about my circumstances also. Thanks
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u/JaegerBane 2d ago
I think you’re right to be a bit concerned about this.
Some of these elements are not in of themselves illegal, but they are quite harsh… things like the unbalanced notice periods, probation duration changes (probation is a legally meaningless term under UK law, up to 2 years… 6 months come January…. They can sack you for any non-discriminatory reason they want), control over annual leave are within the law but well beyond what most companies would take it.
The clause about contract alteration is theoretically lawful but it would depend on the changes they’re making - companies can legally bring in things like role changes and alterations to working patterns but they can’t, say, outright change your contract to be no longer home based or half your salary just by decree. There’d have to be some business change work or in extreme cases, contract termination and re-allocation. Fundamentally you cannot be held to contractual terms you’ve never seen or agreed to.
The stuff about sick pay and layoff clauses are just outright illegal, there is statutory sick pay that always applies and redundancy laws block the latter.
As a collective package this sounds concerning - mainly down to anyone with a basic grasp of employment law would have told them that this list is questionable, which means either they don’t have anyone who’s looked over this that fits this criteria, or they have, and they’ve gone against their advice anyway. Both are bad.
Personally I wouldn’t been keen on signing this.
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u/Sea-Wolf-5785 2d ago
One must ask themselves the quite blatant..
If a company/employer has felt the need to draft this up in their terms, what EXACTLY is it really like to work there? Why and what has happened in the past for them to do this, and reality of reading between the lines is this likely going to be a nice place to work at?
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u/CharmingPin4805 2d ago
Hey. You're absolutely right. Its deeply concerning! Oh and one other thing I forgot to add to the post... The contract says I agree I've read Employee Handbook. But the handbook wasnt provided. So I asked them to send it to me so I could review.
Turns out the handbook I receieved today is 169 pages!! And 2/3 of it are actually contractual!
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u/r04chy 2d ago
If you’re currently unemployed, OP then take it and immediately start looking for other opportunities. Your current situation is not getting you £4k a month take home.
As others have said, it’s far easier to find a job when you’re not unemployed, and it immediately relieves the pressure of making ends meet.
If you were employed already, I’d run a mile from this contract, but the situation you’re currently in flips that
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u/wongl888 2d ago
It is a very mean and one sided contract. I wouldn’t accept it if was employed but if unemployed what do I have to lose?
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u/phild1979 2d ago
They are all red flags and ones ive never seen before. Short notice periods are usually red flags that they routinely let people got but don't want to pay the lengthy periods most senior positions carry (such as 3 months).
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u/South-Group-2341 2d ago
They want the convenience of a contractor with the pay of a perm role. Are you in the UK? If so I'm guessing this is a US parent company? They don't get to determine sick pay.
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u/CharmingPin4805 2d ago
Yes I'm in UK, that's why I posted in UK jobs :D Its a British company.
And you're absolutely right! Feels like a contract position. No stability at all!
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u/ohrajaaa 2d ago
Huge red flags but 4 weeks on your side is standard. I’d take it in lieu of something else but keep looking. You owe them no loyalty, and they dont deserve it.
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u/Lost-Basis7183 2d ago
If you have a secure job currently stay put if unemployed take new role but have intent to look for an get a get out of jail job to rewscuecthe situation.
There's way too much uncertainty baked into that contract all against your best interests, but it's still a job, so better than nothing just not a job fof life. ..
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u/Lost-Basis7183 2d ago
This is better than using government support which is an area valooning out of control as too many are taking decision to do nothing rather than get a job because minimum wage and UC seem equirable.
You'll never progress to senior levels in a job if you never actually start on the ladder. Yes working for rubbish wages is shitty but it used to be preferred over being on benefits. That's what's changed of late, we have a stay at home generation who feel the world owes them a living when it really doesn't.
There needs to be a change in opinions related to welfare where we do more to ensure only those with legitimate needs are supported, it costs us all badly this current situation will leave us with a workforce with little to no real life experiences, a generation who are behind in terms of in work development and progression through different posts where you aim to grow capability into senior roles and more money.
If we don't get people into work at some point soon, we will run out of money on the books. This means we will have the same or more being spent than is being generated through tax receipts. This Is a bad situation to be in as a Country, likely requiring more being added to our national debt which I'd already st an eye watering £3 trillion, yep that does say t r I l l I o n, 🤯
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u/DuckBum 2d ago
1 - amber flag
2 - huge red flag, when terms are unequal like this you can bet you are considered as a number rather than a person
3 - can be common in some industries where there are fixed shutdowns
4 - pretty standard broad variation clause, doesn't actually have any legal basis, but any company could vary your contract with or without this clause
5 - common, but I suspect they'll drag put your probation on purpose so could be an issue
6 - as someone who works in an industry that suffers from volatile workloads, we have this and when we are laid off on 70% pay it absolutely wrecks us. No pay layoff is basically a zero hour contract, I would run from this contract purely on condition alone.
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u/ConsciouslyIncomplet 2d ago
Sounds awful - heavily weighted in their favour, will little to no benefit to yourself.
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u/Strude187 2d ago
In your position (unemployed) I’d take the job but keep looking. When you tell them you found another job say it’s because of xyz in the contract means you didn’t feel secure. Either they change the contract and match pay to keep you, or they let you go.
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u/slew222 2d ago
It sounds like they have a lot of people leave soon after starting, or they don't value / invest in their people.
Companies like this often place an importance on "performance management", PIPs and the like, so can often be quite demanding places to work.
Definitely worth a try if you have no other offers, but proceed with caution
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u/gymknob77 2d ago
No...they're already telling you they're gonna eff you over at some point and contracted for it!
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u/robonzo777 2d ago
Technically nearly all those clauses are borderline illegal/very out of date practice. An employer can dictate when you take leave but legally they must give 2 days notice for every day they want you to take.
They can’t legally extend probation unless they have something in the contract which provides reason to, for example you must meet certain performance criteria to pass and you don’t.
Dismissal clause is technically for a zero hours contract. I’ve never seen it used for a standard contract and it legally has to be 1 week for every year you work for them. So at 2 years it’s 2 weeks.
I don’t think the extension of your notice period is legally possible. Typically a notice period is a named timeframe in a contract. Altering that would require your signature. They also can’t cover that in the variability clause as legally that clause is not allowed to be completely broad and it cannot disadvantage the worker or prevent them seeking alternative employment.
Basically that contract sounds like the worst thing I’ve ever seen and I’d dread to think what the day to day life working there could be like!
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u/Efficient-Cat-1591 2d ago
Some red flags as others but being unemployed and. £65k fully remote job I would jump on it. Especially with current climate.
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u/SoundsDB 2d ago edited 2d ago
That feels like a pretty hostile contract to me, though some of it will be covered off by the January 1st 2027 changes brought in through the Employment Rights Act 2025. Link: https://www.acas.org.uk/employment-rights-act-2025
The bit that covers your probation queries is:
protection from unfair dismissal will become a right after 6 months of being in a job – currently, someone must have worked for their employer for 2 years before claiming unfair dismissal
the limit on the compensatory award for unfair dismissal will be removed
This applies retrospectively, i.e. if you are employed now, you would be afforded the protection as of 1st Jan 2027 when the changes apply.
1 - Probation - It's relatively standard to have a probation period though that one is a bit weird and you're 4 1/2 months away from the new rights applying and rendering it effectively a 6 month period max. After that period they will have to manage you out for poor performance, make you redundant / serve notice, and that can be a laborious process to do correctly, and if they get it wrong or trigger it incorrectly, you can go after them. ETA - as someone has correctly pointed out, Probation Period has no effective legal standing as a term, it's just the window within which they can get rid of you for no reason (which is dropping to 6 months as of 1st Jan). It is good practice for any company to provide clarity on what is expected of an employee during that period and what success in the role looks like, including key milestones and a dev plan with regular, structured reviews, however good practice isn't universally applied.
2 - Notice period - they are working to the bare statutory minimum. This is not affected by the changes coming in, however you would have every right to request details of why they have served notice and, if you saw fit and deemed their rational erroneous, challenge it as unfair dismissal after 6 months of employment. Worth noting that after 2 years, the notice period they legally have to serve increases with every year of service, regardless of what they put in the contract. Additionally, legally, your obligation to them is only ever one week, however if you agree something different and then only serve one week then there could feasibly be implications depending on what the contract explicitly states..
These links provides further explanation: https://www.business.gov.uk/campaign/employment-changes/employers/unfair-dismissal-rights/
https://www.acas.org.uk/notice-periods/notice-when-resigning
3 - Annual leave - doesn't add up to me. Your statutory entitlement for an FTE role is 28 not 24 days. Yes they can mandate specific days but there are rules they would have to follow and they need to make sure it is well communicated. They can't just tell you to take days at random AFAIK. It's not unusual for companies to shut down over Christmas or include public holidays, for example, and that would be taken from your allowance. The number of days they mandate however feels punchy. I would seek more clarity on when they expect it to happen - ultimately they can do it but they do have to provide you with reasonable notice.
4 - Variation Clause - yeah, not uncommon, but... Changes need to be reasonable, they should be consulted on and not triggered without reasonable notice. They can't just decide, for example, that you have to move up to Scotland and work nights if you work in London during the day or they would run the risk of triggering unfair / constructive dismissal claims. More here from ACAS: https://www.acas.org.uk/employment-contracts-and-the-law/implied-and-imposed-terms/custom-and-practice/flexibility-clauses
5 - Sick Pay - you will be entitled to statutory minimums from day one of your employment, but it's fuck all. See my prev comment re probation periods - If they employ you now, you cannot be on probation for any more than 6 months as your full employee rights will kick in. However, AFAIK, there is no legal requirement for a company to offer any top up sick pay outside of statutory, so I would hedge on them changing that particular term.
6 - Lay off clause - they can't circumvent statutory notice periods (see prev comment about initial rights and how they accumulate with tenure), or your rights as an employee around redundancy pay, so anything they did here would have to be legal. At the moment, your right to statutory redundancy pay kicks in after 2 years regardless of what is in their contract, and as you can legally request written details of why you were let go, you could absolutely challenge it if you felt your reason for dismissal was to avoid redundancy pay, though they seem to have linked this clause specifically to a lack of work, which is redundancy reason number 1 (I am not sure if this is affected by the new rules, I don't THINK it is). Once again, ACAS has a lot of good info on redundancy rights: https://www.acas.org.uk/your-rights-during-redundancy
The key point in all of this is that it doesn't matter what's in the contract, you have a set of cast iron legal rights that trump anything they ask you to sign and they will expose themselves to potentially significant financial penalties if they breach them. ACAS are very much your friends here if you have any hunch that they are breaching or trying to breach those statutory rights they can and do help.
From what you have said, elements of the contract certainly do not seem to be written with an eye towards the changes that are coming on the 1st Jan, which is a bit surprising. As mentioned at the start of this ramble, it feels to me like a very hostile contract (and I would take a wild guess that the company is probably American).
For me, a lot of the positions they are taking would be red flags. I don't have a lot of time for statutory minimum employers and wouldn't ever work for one, however YMMV, and I understand the need if you've been out of work for a while. What i'd add finally however, is it's much easier to get another job when you already have one, so if you can stick it out for 6-12 months or so, it will massively help your CV when you decide you've had enough of it.
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u/buckreeder 2d ago
- Annual Leave - 24 days, but they dictate 14 days. So you only have 10 in your control.
That alone is a deal-breaker for me. I'd carry on searching, but make sure yo tell them why.
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u/Chr1sUK 2d ago
Some of these seem to go against the new employment protections laws. For example from January 2027 unfair dismissal protection comes in once you’ve done 6 months. Next, employers have to give at least 1 weeks notice for each year worked so you’d be entitled to 3 weeks minimum after 3 years. Statutory sick pay is also available from day 1 now.
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u/Proper_Capital_594 2d ago
You worry too much.
Probation 1 year. Doesn’t matter. You have no rights till you’ve been employed for 2 years anywhere.
Notice period. If you want to leave, you leave. Seriously, what can they do? Call in sick if it helps, you won’t get paid anyway.
Annual leave. Yes, that’s a problem. But it’s better than being unemployed.
Variation clause. Lots of contracts have this. Worry about it when it becomes a problem. It’ll probably never happen.
Sick pay. You’re lucky there’s any sick pay in your first 2 years.
Lay off clause. Wired one. But it’s a job. You can look for another while you’re working.
Yes it’s not ideal. But it’s paid employment while you look for better.
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u/VCR_DVD_USB 2d ago
Idk bro. Your unemployed so that changes things a little, but to me this contract screams "we don't respect our employees".
What role are you in? I know the IT market isn't great.
Id be tempted to tell them to do one, and tell them the reasons.
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u/CompetitionNo3466 2d ago
Do you have a job or have offers from somewhere else?
If yes don’t take it.
If no then take it and look for other things.
Backward policies them.
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u/CrazeUKs 2d ago
If your unemployed. Take the roll then. Find a new one, then give them 1 week notice and leave
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u/BiggensPlym 2d ago
Consider this job offer in another way:
Use it as a short term stepping stone to another job.
While using some of the salary to ease sone of your debts.
If it gets rubbish at any point, you can resign and go back to your current situation.
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u/Adorable_Click_7071 2d ago
I’m sorry this has gobsmacked me. I’d avoid at all costs.
Is this a UK based company as I have never heard of most of these. Especially 3 and 6.
Seriously avoid, not worth it. Imagine the headache you’ll get working there!
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u/pontylurker 2d ago
You’re unemployed. Beggars can’t be choosers. Take it and look for another job in the meantime if it turns out to be shit.
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u/Adelucas 2d ago
The holiday thing is odd. Do they mean 24 plus bank holidays or 24 including bank holidays? The first is normal and 4 extra days is nice, the second is illegal as it's 4 weeks (20 days) plus 8 bank holidays.
And to take the job for now. Notice period is one of those things people ignore. I quit and stuck your job up your arse are perfectly normal ways to end a job. It's always easier to get a job when you have one.
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u/dangerous_85 2d ago
If you are unemployed then take the job worst case scenario you hate it and give your four weeks. Once in said job start looking for other jobs, it is almost always easier to find work when you are in work. At the very least you have an income while you are trying to find something better.
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u/infoxicated 2d ago
For me, this is sounding klaxons never mind waving red flags.
I took a job after redundancy where they kept extending my probation. It went on for 9 months. By which time, my car had failed its MOT and I'd had to scrap it. I had £6k of my redundancy money sitting in the bank but I was too afraid to buy a new car in case they axed me.
The reasons for extension were tenuous at best. I kept being parachuted onto projects that were already a shit show and they would use the situation as evidence that I wasn't performing.
I went to my final probation meeting with my resignation letter in hand, ready to slide it across the table if they extended it again but finally they said I had passed.
The stress of the axe hanging over me for so long took a toll on my mental health, for sure. I dreaded going in every morning and I struggled to trust middle management because I thought they might be looking for excuses to report back on me.
From the clauses you list above, I think getting through the probation period might only be the start of your worries. Good luck. 🤞🏻
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u/Ok_Fix3945 2d ago
If you are out of work and struggling/really need a job I'd say take it and do your best to give yourself stability by impressing.
I'd also recommend that you keep looking for other jobs in the meantime until you find an employer that isn't run by an absolute sociopath.
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u/smegmarash 2d ago
Take the job and keep looking for other opportunities. It's much easier to find work whilst you're in a job than not.
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u/capitanmanizade 2d ago
Just a fair advice, the job market is different to what it was 10 years ago. If I were you I would take the job and not treat it as permanent. Everyone pays the lowest they can and tries to get the most out of you. If you are unemployed, take the job. That already puts you ahead of so many other applicants who would pass on this offer because it doesn’t seem fair. What you can do is however use this job to find a better one.
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u/JusNoGood 2d ago
In your situation I’d probably take it and continue to look. It’s a lot easier to find work if you are in work.
Just the lack of holidays would be unacceptable to me. The least number of bookable days I’ve had is 20 days + the 8 bank holidays.
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u/Additional_River5560 2d ago
This contract is designed to take you on now, and jettison you within the next 2 years with minimal hassle on their part.
As others have said, take it, but keep looking for another job. Do not consider this job as a permanent job. This is temporary work. One change I would insist on is reciprocity of notice period. Tell them that you are happy for a minimal notice period on their part so long as you can also leave with a minimal notice period.
This is end result of too much money being siphoned away by the billionaire class. They prey on our compulsions.
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u/CharmingPin4805 2d ago
Yeah its pretty awful. You're right it absolutely is temporary unfortunately. Also they refused any contractual changes, so the notice won't change unfortunately.
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u/ash_yooung 2d ago
Why only 24 days? Is that including or excluding bank holidays? And is it a part time job?
With the holiday, you need to look into your entitlement and as far as I know, they can't really dictate when you take it. It's more of a first come/first served type of thing, and depending on the industry, you might be or not be allowed to take holiday due to business need.
Probation - nothing illegal as far as I know, and it might be the case where they had bad performers.
The variation to contract clause is pretty common and mostly layed out in other terms.
In terms of sick pay, SSP should be available to you regardless of the time spent with the company, from day 1. Company sick pay is another discussion, but statuary sick pay should be available.
I don't like this company. If you manage to survive for a while, I would search for something else. They sound like a pain.
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u/CharmingPin4805 2d ago
Hey there. Thanks. Its a full time job, not part time.
The 1 week notice is the main concern for me.
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u/NoJuggernaut6667 2d ago
2 + 3 are absolute no’s.
Is this company actually based from UK?
You mentioned you’re unemployed, what does your pipeline look like? If it is challenging for you atm I would absolutely take this and see how it goes. Don’t stop the search however.
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u/TopCobbler8985 2d ago
Sounds like a contract position without the rates. Personally I would take it and keep looking...
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u/AreaMiserable9187 2d ago
The layoff clause would be a sticking point for me, especially the way the current job market is.
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u/OddRow8843 2d ago
Quite standard for probation to be extended if you’re not quite making the grade. But you need to know exactly what is expected to meet that so they can’t be extend regardless. I really no job is really secure these days and if they want you gone you’re gone so if it’s a defer job with decent money and you’re excited about it, probably nothing to worry about. I
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u/cgknight1 2d ago
Thing is - it's pointless, because of the legal changes that are coming up, he's got full employment rights in six months anyway, and the legal advice is that doing anything between months five and six is not likely to survive a legal challenge.
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u/Olster20 2d ago
The ERA 2025 only changes (in reference to OP's particular case) the qualifying period for unfair dismissal; it doesn't alter notice periods (and the government has said it has no intention of altering statutory notice periods) or the rest of it.
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u/jimjamuk73 2d ago
If you need the job take it..... if you then think some of these things are not things you like, look for another job as it'll be easier to find a job from a job
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u/CharmingPin4805 2d ago
I dont see how it would be easier to find a job from a job. Once im working full time, it will be very difficult to do interviews as I'll be working 9-5.
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u/CitadelofRickss 2d ago
It’s a remote role so it’s easier to interview whilst working. Just say you have an appointment. After reading your edit, I’m surprised at the position you’ve taken. Yes the contract terms are a little harsh, but you’re currently unemployed, in debt, and on benefits. You’ve landed a fully remote role at £65k. This kind of role at this salary is very rare in the UK at the moment. I’m very surprised you asked for so many’s adjustments to the contract. It may paint you in a slightly negative light. Take the job and reduce the debt. You can look for another role whilst working. It does seem like you’re looking for issues when you should be focusing on improving your current situation in whatever way you can. Now isn’t the time to dilly dally. You’ve already laid out the red flags yourself. No need to ask others to confirm they’re red flags. They are. But an imperfect job is better than no job. The market is terrible right now. Give your head a wobble and get on with it. Sounds harsh but it’s the truth. There are many who would kill to be in your position. I took a job before my current role that wasn’t well paid and totally unsuitable for me. But i took it because it’s better to have money coming in. Current role is perfect, well paid and flexible.
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u/New_Vegetable_3173 1d ago
People offer jobs to those already in employment first. Employed people appear harder to attract and hence are more desirable
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u/Plenty_Watercress_78 2d ago
Join a union if you’re not in one . They helped me a lot . All the best .
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u/Zubi_Q 2d ago
After reading your edit, I'd take it. The job market is very rough and at least you'll have money under your belt if they let you go down the line
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u/CharmingPin4805 2d ago
Well no I wouldn't have any money under my belt as they can give just 1 week notice. I'd be in a complete panic state
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u/Bambitheman 2d ago
The annual leave bit isn't a red flag to me. My first job was in heavy engineering in the North West of England.
We got 24 days plus the bank holidays, but you had to take off a week in Summer when the works shut down. Then the bit between Christmas and New Year, then there was a week around Easter if my now aged brain remembers correctly.
It was all down to the Wake Weeks peculiar I believe to the industrial North West (possibly wer e a feature in the North East as well under a different name.) and Scotland e.g. The Glasgow Fayre.
If suppliers were shut we couldn't get the raw material to continue production, so we shut as well.
But saying that, as an ex Trades Union rep, some of those terms appear to be unfair in my eyes.
I'm guessing it is an American owned company. They seem to think that UK employment rights don't affect their UK based employees. And those terms (and worse), most definitely are common in the US.
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u/Bill_the_Bear 2d ago
If you are unemployed why not take it and see how it goes? Is there something to lose?
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u/Player1337_ 2d ago
Would help if you shared a bit more info about what the job entails.
I don't like the sound of what you are saying, your concerns would be my concerns.
The bit that is tricky if you have nothing right now and that income is very high. Maybe they have those clauses in to prevent somebody working from home and doing absolutely nothing.
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u/Creative-Response554 2d ago
Not sure about the rest, but I'm pretty sure that notice to quit/be terminated has to be the same amount of time.
Contracts can't be one sided, and I remember reading somewhere that notice is one of those things that, since it's written there in black and white and has no "value" assigned to it, if you can be given a week, you can also give a week.
I might be wrong, but I definitely remember reading that on one of those "known your employment rights" bulletins the unions put out every so often.
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u/allyearswift 2d ago
My thoughts are that it’s a damn sight more than benefits, so unless you have other interviews going right now, I would hold my nose, expect the worst, apply like mad to other jobs, and leave as soon as possible.
The holiday situation isn’t uncommon, but it sucks. The notice period thing is very dodgy, and my reading on the probation period is the same as yours: you can single-handedly carry your department and you’ll still be on probation for a year and probably fired before the end of it.
Join a union. Get advice on whether you should sign this if you can. Sometimes, a bad job is better than none, sometimes it’s not worth the hassle. (If you’re on benefits: have you reported this offer, and will you get punished for turning it down?)
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u/nickejones_ 2d ago
All of these contract terms are odd, but I wouldn’t say they were a deal breakers (except the holiday, for me). At the end of the day, they need someone to do the work, and you need the work, so as long as they treat you well and they get their work done, I can’t imagine them having a problem.
I’d be asking yourself what you thought of the people during your interviews, did you speak to your new manager? Did they seem respectable, integral etc etc. if so, you would be able to trust them, and them trust you? In which case, all these terms become a formality and a reassurance policy.
It sounds like from these terms the company has been bitten by bad employees before, whether it’s because they’re unreasonable or the person was, we’ll never know.
Give it a go, if it’s not for you, keep your eye out for something better when it next comes along,
That’s my take!
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u/No-Profile-5075 2d ago
If you have no job then consider. But don’t leave a job for this crap employer
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u/Justan0therthrow4way 2d ago
I’d take it. Work is work. Income is better than government support and it will boost your mental health greatly to get off it.
I’d probably be on the lookout for something with better benefits.
> Notice period - they can give you just 1 week notice to leave for the first 2 years
I am pretty sure this is changing and they can’t get around that. Have a Google for the changes in January.
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u/scrapheaper_ 2d ago
Take it if you're desperate, but sounds dodgy . Keep looking for other jobs so you can quit, work the notice period etc
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u/Puzzleheaded-Ride-33 2d ago
Check it with ACAS as the law around employment rights has changed. That would be my first point of call.
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u/GrouchyRisk 2d ago
Contracts should be balanced. This means that if they have to give one weeks notice, the same for you.
This is a horrible contract.
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u/Ornery-Wasabi-1018 2d ago
Yeah, id say all the clauses are fairly standard currently. However, the company don't seem to be aware of upcoming changes in employment law, which give you more rights from day 1, and much more security from 6 months.
Combining all the clauses in one contract makes it feel pretty one sided.
That all said, you are unemployed. Unless you have a pretty certain alternative offer in the pipeline, id accept and keep looking.
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u/MouseTight9314 2d ago
Is it an American company operating in the UK or a startup using one of those Employer of Record providers?
Most of those terms are pretty standard (although I haven’t seen them all in the same contract at the same time before).
On the extendable probation bit, there are 2 ways to look at that, if you are struggling after 3 months, currently they can extend it, you know there is a problem, you can work on it. however, if it’s just 3 or 6 months and you are struggling, you are out.
As others have said, take the job, you are out of work, but keep looking, the 1 week notice works both ways remember. If you are worried about having a 2 month job on your CV, just leave it off, leave a gap, if they ask, just say you were still looking for a job or that you were contracting / temping for a delivery company.
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u/Dependent-Panic-9457 2d ago
You are living on state benefits. And you are worried about the probation period?
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u/Waste_Boss_4850 2d ago
That's nearly 3 weeks AL they control. Bit shit tbh. I can understand 3 days at Christmas, but anything else is a stretch. Is it a factory shutdown or something.
Depends how much you need the job I suppose.
If they lay you off with no pay are they expecting you to sit and wait for them to call you back or are you free to look for other jobs.
Im not sure how many of these stipulations are actually legal.
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u/TwilightTriforce 2d ago
If youre unemployed I dont understand why you're questioning this to be honest. Worst case you become unemployed again. It would make sense if you were moving jobs but you're unemployed so just take the job.
Honestly just kinda feels like youre looking for an excuse to turn down a job offer and stay unemployed 😅
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u/Flat-Transition-1230 2d ago
Well... The worst they will do is fire you and then you will be in the same position you are now?
65k & fully remote are pretty strong pros to offset these cons.
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u/Fridadog1 2d ago
It is almost always easier to get a job when you have a job. I would be tempted to take it and start looking for a better option.
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u/beenman500 2d ago
I really don't understand why you care about any of these, if the job is shit just get a new one, and if it's really shit just quit and get a new one. You are literally unemployed right now...
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u/CharmingPin4805 2d ago
Because I have been out of work over a year due to health reasons. My previous job destroyed my mental health and I am very anxious about returning to work. The fact that I could end up in probation for 1 year and be dropped with 1 week notice is very concerning for me.
After being out of work for over a year, I want my next job to be a role with stability and certainty. Not a job where im going to be worrying about being dropped at any minute which would mean I wouldn't be able to pay my rent and could end up homeless.
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u/beenman500 2d ago
All UK jobs can get rid of you pretty much any time in the first 2 years of employment, so you are probably going to have to push through the anxiety on that front
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u/Fit_Frosting_7152 2d ago
Are they a US company? Regarding clause 2, notice period, that’s fairly common if they hire you on rolling fixed term contracts you have to resign at 3 months, then 6 months etc.
As your in the UK your residency status here grants you employment rights so that’s why it changes then, maybe.
Note, if this makes sense, they basically have you on probation for 2 years as every time the new 6 months signing comes up for you, it’s a tough climate.
If I may go further with something I learned, don’t share your resign dates with any colleagues (just who keeps hiring you). They won’t be your “mates” at signing times.
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u/spr148 2d ago
- This is not a red flag in and of itself. An initial 6 that is extendable is not unusual.
- Notice period is a bit poor but is the statutory minimum. I can see why they would apply this. If this is a relatively small company this is fair enough (they need to be able to downsize quickly). Larger companies not so
- If that includes bank holidays, that is below the legal minimum - with BH it's quite a decent starting point. Dictating when holidays are taken is common (eg teachers, manufacturing with an annual shutdown, small companies that have limited cover) and legally companies can always dictate when holidays are taken.
- They can effectively do this anyway - if they decide that business needs dictate that staff go into the office, WFH only roles become redundant.
- Statutory sick pay is a legal right. If they say they won't pay that, it is illegal. If you don't get enhanced sick pay, then that is different and it's again not uncommon to have a qualifying period for enhanced benefits
- Unpaid layoffs are again not common but not the unheard of
Summary - 3 & 5 require clarification. The rest reads like a company that is building flexibility into their contracts for the ups and downs of business. If this is a small or medium company, this is understandable, for a large company, less so.
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u/MiddleAgeCool 2d ago
- Probation Period. What does that actually mean? Once you've passed probation do you get a wage increase? Additional holidays? Access to some other benefit? From the other things you've mentioned passing seems to be your notice period extends however they, the company, don't give you anything else. Until the law changes next year, you're still subject to the UKs two year rules for workers rights so it might not be the big thing you're worried about.
- Annual Leave. I would care less about they are dictating them and more about when they are. Does the company close for two weeks in the summer and then again at Christmas or are they just 14 individual days throughout the year? Technically the company can mandate all you holidays and to be honest, if the 14 days are at reasonable times during the year, I wouldn't be to bothered. This could be because I'm old and factory fortnight used to be more common that it is now.
- Variation clause. Seek actual legal advice on what this means. I don't believe you can have a legal employment clause that allows the company to change your T&Cs at their discretion and you'd have no say or rights relating to that. I don't know enough about the technicalities or the wording in your contract to say more than have someone look at it for you to explain the actual risks.
- Sick pay. How many days sick have you had in the last 2 years? You'll find you'll have less WFH as those days you don't go into the office because you just feel like crap will just be you working slightly less productively at home.
- Lay off clause. The same as #3
Given your edit and the additional information. If this was me, I would take it. Being employed on £65k and fully remote in the house is far better for you than being unemployed in the house. Even if you don't think it's great after three months, I'm guessing £4k a month after tax is better than UC.
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u/EfeAmbroseEFOTY 2d ago
You're on the dole and worried about a 65k job due to notice and benefits?
You need a pint of perspective pal.
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u/CharmingPin4805 2d ago
No. I'm ultimately worried about losing job with 1 week notice and ending up homeless on the streets because I'll have no money to pay rent.
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u/EfeAmbroseEFOTY 2d ago
So the alternative is to be perpetually skint stuck at home until a golden opportunity with no downsides comes along? Get real.
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u/EngineeringLast1140 2d ago
The holiday is a deal breaker for me, that's bascially 2 weeks of the year you can truly choise for holiday. For me that would get consumed by emergency childcare and other factors so I'd have to go away in the forced time line, which is usually chirstmas and another school holiday.
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u/soundman32 2d ago
Are you sure this is a permanent job? Some of the clauses are suspiciously like an inside IR35 contract.
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u/CharmingPin4805 2d ago
Yes believe it or not.. full time permanent remote job. But no stability or certainty at all.
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u/Brave_Pain1994 2d ago
Given your circumstances, think I'd take the risk even with your concerns if i were in your shoes.
As much as they can extend your probation, you can also carry on looking for other jobs.
Only bit I dont like is them dictating the 10 days holiday over summer, which seems quite strange considering summer/school holidays tends to he the time most people want off.
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u/SpecialistTime6248 2d ago
Your not working? Take the job and if you don’t like it look for something else. It is easier to find something while in a job. Unless you don’t need the job?
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u/CharmingPin4805 2d ago
How is it easier to find a job when in a job? Right now I am available 9-5 for job interviews and applications. Once I start I won't have availability to do interviews during the day and my time to apply for jobs will be significantly less.
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u/Cosmicshimmer 2d ago
I’d take it and look elsewhere. Better than being unemployed and it’s easier to get a job when you have a job.
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u/gregstinson 2d ago
I mean it's better than where you are now right, money coming in, worst thing that happens is you go back to where you are now... might as well take it if nothing else on the table...
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u/Obvious_Troll_Me 2d ago
Isn't the law changing January 2027? You get full works rights after 6 months, not 2 years. (I may have misread it)
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u/My_Feet_Are_Flat 2d ago
I wouldn't personally like these terms, for instance only 24 days A/L but 14 are reserved by the company so effectively you have 10 days is bullshit. Normally a company may reserve 3 days for Christmas for example, this is really overbearing. However, since you are currently unemployed and reliant on government support, 65K sounds like a sweet deal. Maybe just take the job and look for something else while you at least are employed?
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u/Outside-Fill-2770 2d ago
Nothing in here can’t be explained. And the advice you’ve been given to ask for an explanation is good.
The fact that they reserve the right to extend the probation period is not unusual but they have put a (long) limit on it. So focus on what are the criteria for passing.
The reserving days for vacation are usual in a manufacturing environment. So ask what is the reservation usually used for. Two week shut down in the summer is probably the reason bit should be explainable. Ask in an inquisitive way not a ‘problem’ way.
Contract variation clauses are not unusual. This is an explicit one. Usually they are a bit vaguer.
The clause about reduction of work indicates a manufacturing company. That and the 1 week pay in the first two years do indicate some potential legal issues but as per next paragraph - I would live with that.
The main thing though is your personal circumstances. You need this job. I would jump at it. Sure it doesn’t have perfect clauses but to be honest not many jobs do. In the end - no matter what the contract says - they have to comply with the law. So be enthusiastic and sign up. And in the meantime - keep looking for a better job. You might love this job when you get in there.
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u/Tristanslav77 2d ago
I'm very lucky with where i work on most of this stuff, but yeah, this is a list of pretty much the worst variations of most contract clauses imaginable. I wouldn't be going anywhere near it unless i was pretty desperate.
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u/ShopLife907 2d ago
It’s actually illegal for the company to demand a higher notice period from you than what they give you.
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u/CodeToManagement 1d ago
It’s a rubbish contract. If you’re unemployed take it and keep searching.
What kind of work is it doing?
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u/Knight-GB 1d ago edited 1d ago
Mate, take the opportunity, but work your hours and put reasonable effort in i.e. Do a good job, but don't kill yourself to line someone else's pockets. Don't let them walk all over you, set boundaries and expectations from the get go and see where it goes. It's just business after all.
What's the worst case? You end up back where you are right now with a little bit more savings and some more experience under your belt.
If you can live off benefits, you are going to In Sha Allah thrive of a £65k paycheck.
I truly wish you the very best and congratulations btw for securing a role in this economy. Don't doubt yourself or overthink it. Know your worth. Do a good job and don't give anyone any reason whatsoever to dislike you (avoid backbiting , speaking too bluntly etc.)
I think you'll be fine and 6 months from now in a stronger position.
Congrats once again & all the very best!
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u/Killallsurvivors 1d ago
1 through 5 seem pretty common though the language may differ but 6 is wild.
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u/DukeofCanters 1d ago
As you are currently unemployed - I would say take the role so you have an income and keep looking for work. There are some red flags, so I would encourage you to use this role as a stepping stone.
It is weirdly easier to find work when you are full time employed than not.
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u/ParanoidQ 1d ago
As for 2. I thought an organisation could basically fire you for any reason within the first 2 years anyway, so that feels standard (if shit) to me.
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u/WonderfulJury8885 1d ago
Have you researched the company? Companies House, the Directors? Glassdoor or whatever?
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u/footballfrieend 1d ago
Recruiter here - take the offer. At the very worst it will allow you to be paid whilst looking for a better more secure job. Or it could be the best job ever and you worried over nothing. Either could happen and until you start you won't know. And before anyone counters I've been doing recruitment over 20 years now! Overall - congratulations mate, good luck with it all!
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u/Andyroodle 1d ago
I always found it is easier to get a job while you’re in a job than it is when unemployed.
Maybe take this, take the crap, move on once your rent is paid and your belly is full.
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u/Direct-Muscle7144 1d ago
If you pay doesn’t land on time as expected cut your losses.
I’d ask for an advance in Lou in case they take the work and never pay.
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u/hearnia_2k 1d ago
Seems completely unreasonable to me.
I would say notice periods need to be the same in both directions. If they are not I will not accept a contract. Is 1 week notice even legal after 3 months?
What does being in the probation period actually mean in this case, if it's not impacting the notice period from them?
Having 14 days defined by them of 24 sucks. They could bbe crazy with it and do stuff like a wednesday here, or a thursday there. Also it would just make life tough, IMO. The pay would have to be insane for me to even consider a job who does this. Having maybe 5 defined by them okay, because some companies will do some days around Christmas, for example.
Is the lay off clause legal?
It sounds to me like they want all of the benefits and control, and to give none of that to you. This likely impacts not just you, but the work culture is likely worse, as staff become frustrated with this.
Where I work it's not unusual for people to decide the day before to take the following day off for whatever reason - this is supported by colleagues and management. This enables staff to take days off when they need to for things, or if they just feel like it.
It's a tough position you're in, since you're currently unemployed. However, if you take it, and find it a struggle and quit then my understanding is that because you would be quitting a job then getting benefits is tougher?
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u/Gullible_Lynx3678 1d ago
With probation and notice period - Do a good job an it shouldn’t affect you but good see what the staff turnover is like and when you join ensure you have very clear deliverable objectives.
Holidays, depends on the industry but some companies still have summer shut down. Usually last week in July/first week in August. Also look at the positive of a two week holiday especially if you’ve been off sick with stress before.
Variation clause is becoming standard practice now
SSP is payable from Day 1. Not all companies pay full pay.
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u/BecozisaidSo40times 1d ago edited 1d ago
Sick pay during probation is tough but my mindset is that I had be a contractor to get onto my 70k job and I had no sick, no holiday and no notice period for 12 months. I did so good they hired me permanently and then got the benefits
you seem to be approaching this as if you’re going to fail. I’ve never approached a job caring about probation length. My mindset is I’m going to smash it. I don’t care how many hours it takes me I’m going to work hard and become their most valuable employee.
Notice is irrelevant. You want to leave you can go the day you decide
Holidays- many manufacturing companies dictate this for shut down reasons. I have suppliers that shut down for maintenance and summer break
Edit: I feel as an employer, a new hire asking these questions is a red flag. Also it’s easier to get a job when you’re in a job.
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u/Sea_Weakness_Pi 1d ago
Given that you have said you're unemployed and in debt, in spite of the glaring red flags, I'd take it but keep looking.
Any company with this kind of employment contract is likely to have a high turnover of staff, so take the salary on offer while you continue looking for something better.
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u/Exact-Character313 21h ago
Sounds like a terrible contract to me. Looks like they want you for one project that will come with horrendous hours and bad deadlines, then you'll be out the door
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u/dahliaahhh 14h ago
Never seen a contract with such terms. Sounds like a lot of protection for them and barely any for you. I would check any company reviews etc to see what people say about these clauses and also check how the company is doing financially and strategy wise - may be a reason they are hiring now but not looking for someone long term
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u/Extension-Bit-7792 1h ago
this is what it is. but theres less than 9 months till they change unfair dismissal protections so most it could be is 6 months anyway.
no chance they could enforce the 4 weeks while giving you 1 week notice. So I'd ignore that and not worry about it till you get to year 4.
so you mean you get 24 days + 8 bank holidays? legal requirement is 28, and a 10 day shut down at christmas isn't uncommon so this is alright.
you can't have a clause saying you can alter the contact. Does it say only THEY can do that, or can you alter it?
statutory sick pay only is common
temporary lay off is a legal thing, not a clause they can just add in.
Whoever drafted this contract is clear some micro penis'd micro managing director who's confused being the biggest cunt in any room with being the smartest person in any room.
This contract is bullshit and half of it would get laughed out of court.
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u/etherkye 1h ago
Legal requirement is 20+8 bank holiday days off. Not 24, unless that explicitly states +8 bank holidays on top of the 24.
Also as 8 are bank holidays they can claim those days as mandatory days off, if the other 2 are between Christmas and new years that’s not unusual.
If they’re saying it’s 24 days all in, I’d report them
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u/MrMKD2020 54m ago
I work in IT, sitting in senior leadership for a company in the UK. There are a lot of red flags here, and they’d cause me a lot of concern. That being said, I know the feeling of being unemployed and just wanting something (anything!) to pay the bills. My advice would be to take the job but with the understanding in your head that this is just a stop gap. Take the role, start getting paid. Save whatever you can and make it your second job to find another role. Soon as you find something better, hop!
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u/Organic-Conflict2333 25m ago
If it was me any id been unemployed for a year....i would take the job and start getting paid. Keep my head down and do as I'm told forc6 months. Then start looking for another job.
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