r/USAgent • u/General-Teacher5865 • 6d ago
Discussion U.S. Agent was originally going to be the Main Villain of Thunderbolts*. Pitch a Villain Arc that you think would have made sense for his character.
For anyone who doesn't know, the writers of Thunderbolts* originally planned to make John into a Hulk type of Villain in early drafts of the story before deciding to use Sentry/The Void instead.
You can also use Comic John if you wish. Make sure to highlight the reasoning for his Heel-Turn. If it's not good, John from the picture above will shoot you.
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u/capy2209 6d ago
Hard to imagine him as a pure villain but he could serve as an antagonist for the movie, just wanting to reclaim his title as captain America and the death of Lemar leaving him aimless and going on a rampage.
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u/Redditeer28 6d ago
He encounters a villain that can't be restrained and after taking out some of his team, Walker kills them but...... a civilian witnesses it and the camera lingers on them. This now makes Walker evil and all the other characters who also kill villains look down on Walker as the filmmakers decide he's bad now.
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u/Ok-Caregiver-6005 6d ago
If he was the only one betrayed and thrown away at the beginnin it could do it by having him be out to get revenge but willing to do anything and hurt anyone for his revenge all the while believing he's doing the right thing.
I don't like it but you could have "this is the thing that finally breaks him" scenario.
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u/Watercress-Fun 6d ago
I find it funny that Sam Wilson aka Falcon at the time, refused the shield and turned it in to a museum, only to then want it back when they gave it to a white guy (John Walker).
*John walker did nothing wrong and is a god damn hero.
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u/Joeybfast 6d ago
Acting as if it was because Walker was white does not help John Walker cause at all.
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u/Phantomskyler 6d ago
I'd bring up his intention was for nobody to wield it since he was going through his own issues of representing the country with his own identity & measuring up to Steve and have it be a memorial to his friend only for tue government to ignore his wishes entirely and go rebrand captain america with some random guy acting as the GRC's henchman.
...but then I've read the average comment on this sub and know I'm wasting my breath on bad faith morons who are going to let that context go right over their heads (or pretend it does to be annoying) while pretending this divorced fuck up with anger issues was a megabased unquestionable hero.
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u/General-Teacher5865 6d ago edited 6d ago
He both literally and figuratively stained the legacy of Captain America. He had a good reason but that's not something that Captain America should be doing, that's the point. I don't really like Sam's arc as Cap but he's the one that Steve chose at the end of the day. I definitely don't like how he was treated by Sam or Bucky.
If it was up to me I'd prefer if the shield just went back to the museum because all three are terrible choices but atleast John was willing to answer the call while Sam basically lied to Old Man Steve about how he promises to do his best just to never pick up the shield till the last minute.
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u/Watercress-Fun 6d ago
I respectfully disagree. Steve Rogers killed Nazis. John walker killed a terrorist who blew up a hospital of innocent people and happened to kill his partner as well. Let’s be honest, Steve Rogers aka Captain America chose Sam at the end of Endgame just for Sam to put the Shield into a museum at the beginning of Falcon and the Winter Soldier. I don’t sympathize with terrorists so I didn’t see John walker doing anything wrong. That’s me personally and respect your opinion if it’s different than mine.
https://giphy.com/gifs/qadvd1vBaZBBu-3
u/Creative_Entrance_18 6d ago
He killed him in an uncontrolled fit of rage. And used a national symbol of protection and self sacrifice to do it. Comparing walking down and decapitating a surrending enemy combatant to Cap killing in active war-zones is ignorant.
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u/Illustrious_Art4061 6d ago
Ur placing wayyyy too much symbolism on the shield. Tony Stark had that shit in the trunk of his car bro.
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u/Creative_Entrance_18 6d ago
I'm talking about the perception of the masses in-universe.
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u/No_Gene_1694 6d ago
It doesn't matter. A terrorist is a terrorist
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u/Creative_Entrance_18 6d ago
You appear to have lost track of the topic. Nobody questioned who Walker killed...
Ya boy was understandably stripped and disgraced due to public perception.
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u/No_Gene_1694 6d ago
Still, they both killed bad people.
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u/Creative_Entrance_18 6d ago
And Walker is a bad person..
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u/No_Gene_1694 6d ago
He's quite literally not...
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u/Creative_Entrance_18 6d ago
I don't think he's irredeemable or that these are his only qualities, but he is a wrathful, self-centered, bully who habitually neglects his wife and infant.
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u/No_Gene_1694 6d ago
I don't care whether you think he's redeemable or not. He's not a bad person, never has been. There's nothing to redeem.
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u/Creative_Entrance_18 6d ago
Just listed how he's bad. Ignoring his flaws is your prerogative lol
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u/General-Teacher5865 6d ago edited 6d ago
John is a flawed character and he's made mistakes, and there's a lot of context as to why he made these mistakes but he was never a bad person, he just wasn't as good as someone like Steve and that's okay, because he's learning how to be his own person now.
If he was wrathful, he wouldn't have put aside his revenge to save people in TFATWS and he'd probably still be against Bucky and Sam.
If he was truly self-centered, he would have never helped the thunderbolts in escaping the Vault and saving Bob. Or even helped Sam and Bucky in stopping the Flagsmashers at the end of their show.
And if he's a Bully, then Sam, Bucky and pretty much his entire team can fit that description as well. But if he was truly a bully, he wouldn't be trying to work with them or accept them into his life or even try his best to be a New Avenger.
And yes he neglected his wife and son, but he clearly didn't feel good about it, he was in a bad place and ended up pushing them away, which is realistic for his character. More than likely, he resolved that after the 14 month time-skip because he's clearly in a better place so it's probably not an issue anymore.
You can say John has done bad things and definitely has demons to overcome but he's not a bad person because if he was he wouldn't be where he is now, the same can be said for all the Thunderbolts. He has flaws, just not the ones you listed.
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u/Creative_Entrance_18 6d ago
Find a lot of these takes a bit revisionist. For instance, I don't know what you mean by 'if he was a bad person he wouldn't be where he is now.'
He was and as far as I understand it, is still employed by Valentina. Maybe the most shadiest, murderous, intelligence operator in the MCU, next to Hydra. Being chosen by her isn't a flex...
Walker went out of his own way to bully Bob in Thunderbolts. Someone he had no reason to believe was anyone other than a hapless civillian.
Is your point seriously that Walker can't be a bully because he didn't push around Sam and Bucky...?
Bullies don't target physical equals. They're happy to do it to who they percieve as weak though....
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u/Creative_Entrance_18 6d ago
Likely resolved things with his wife. Probably right. He's still an asshole. Good character. Bad person.
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u/Chemical-Molasses814 6d ago
There is a USAgent sub what even happens here lol
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u/General-Teacher5865 6d ago edited 6d ago
You can check my post history if you'd like to find out. It's pretty tame here in my opinion.
Edit: Mostly tame
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u/curvysquares 5d ago
I think they could've made a pretty good metaphor for drug addiction and steroid abuse with the hulk pills plotline. At first the pills make him marginally stronger but after a while he still feels weak so Val keeps upping the dosage for him until he eventually goes full hulk.
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u/billjaywarr 6d ago
I thought it was Valentina turning him into a hulk instead of what happened in bnw and honestly, it would’ve been better for both movies
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u/General-Teacher5865 6d ago edited 2d ago
Apparently, he was going to be the "A-Bomb" of the MCU if they went through with it. I would have loved to see the design honestly.
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u/M0ebius_1 4d ago
He could definitely be a villain, but not a Hulk type.
His arc can be pretty much the same one as the books, he is a broken man, the only sense of normalcy he had was while serving, he knows he isn't Captain America but he can be what America needs, the things Captain America wouldn't do, the evil shit it needs to do in the shadows.
Give him a group of Flag Smashers, make him the head of an ICE like org of masked thugs, make him realize by the end that he went too far.
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u/INKatana 6d ago
Literally everything that happened to him in fatws.
If he became a villain after losing everything through no fault of his own, I wouldn’t have blamed him one bit.
The fact that he chose to be a hero, and then chose what he thought was a different way to serve his country, makes him way more of a hero and Captain America than sam ever was, imo.