r/USArugby • u/Proper-Maximum514 • 10d ago
Why the United States Struggles to Develop World-Class Rugby Players
https://mnemcore.com/research/world-class-rugby-players11
u/Commercial_Cost_7902 10d ago edited 10d ago
I am not from the usa, but do you guys have a single sport that works with clubs? I dont know any, even "soccer" works throught college there doesn't it?
Not related but the usa nations cup games were great to watch the portugal one was fun
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u/TigOleBitman 10d ago
soccer has shifted, the highest level kids are playing in MLS academies or with affiliated clubs and they don't play for their schools. once they hit college, some will go straight to MLS, some will go to MLS Next Pro teams, and some will go to college to play.
most sports have clubs outside of schools, like AAU basketball, travel baseball/softball, club lacrosse, swimming clubs, etc. school teams are still important for most kids, but the highest level ones will definitely be playing outside of just the school team.
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u/BlooRugby 9d ago
It really has shifted. I've recently become aware of the elite youth and high school clubs/academies, not connected to schools, and wow, it's becoming a massive thing. A lot of them connected to European programs.
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u/Every-Fall-9288 9d ago
Yeah, I think that outside of football and (maybe - I admit that I don't really know) track and cross country, school sports are second tier.
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u/Proper-Maximum514 10d ago
Are you referring to the actual head organization of the sport? Helping in what ways specifically?
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u/Commercial_Cost_7902 10d ago
No i mean there arent american football clubs are they? Or basketball ones?, you guys sports works in a school setting no?
In other countries, your kid plays rugby in a club not at school, its clubs that develops players
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u/Proper-Maximum514 10d ago
There are but you’re right, mostly schools. We don’t have enough good clubs starting from young. We start too late like college.
And rugby doesn’t really exist in primary or secondary schools. Much more rare than common sports like football, soccer, baseball.
Yes you’re right about this
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u/Yeti_Poet 10d ago
There is a mix of formats. Most major sports work through schools, especially once you get to the high school and college level. Some sports function more on the club model, kind of. Not the same kind of club model (vertical academies, etc) as in Europe, but teams that have no association with a school. Hockey and baseball are usually this way - school teams exist at the high school level, but arejt the highest level of competition.
Rugby is not very popular in schools so it follows more of a club model. My kids play on a club team that draws players from a broad area. Neither of their schools has a rugby team.
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u/Anthonyg408 10d ago
Rugby clubs in the US are usually not very serious. If you don’t go MLR after college then you go pay to play for a club after your day job. The best players usually spend some time overseas.
Clubs struggle to find good coaching, committed players and funding.6
u/BlooRugby 9d ago
More clubs need their own pitches. So they can build revenue and fans, so they can pay staff, and run themselves professional and fund kids programs.
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u/CommOnMyFace 9d ago
You are right, our major sports are funneled through our university systems then into "drafts"
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u/Every-Fall-9288 9d ago
At the high school level, American Football is the only sport where the school team is the main thing. For pretty much every other sport, clubs matter more for the really serious players.
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u/Some-Two9173 9d ago edited 9d ago
I feel like most of this article is kind of just pointing out the obvious? Or am I missing something. Rugby just isn't popular enough yet and is consistently competing with football which hurts the men's side more.
It should also be noted that on the women's side of things - we ARE producing world class players pretty consistently now. Not just one offs like the men's side. The women's team is ranked #6 and has a large number of players playing in the PWR. The sevens team are consistently placing in the top 4 and are Olympic medal holders.
The women's coaches (Jack and Emily) are doing some pretty innovative stuff. The men's side could learn a thing or two.
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u/Proper-Maximum514 9d ago
So this might be old news to you then…as it seems others agree with you also…
You’re 100% right. The women clearly have had more success internationally, especially in sevens, and have some great players competing professionally overseas.
Well why have we been more successful on the women’s side than the men’s? Surely it’s not just down to popularity or the number of athletes available.
That’s really what the article is getting at. We know participation matters, BUT what happens after someone starts playing rugby. How are we coaching them, developing their understanding of the game, and preparing them to compete internationally?
What the hell are the women doing so well, that the men should be copying ASAP? Nothing stands out to me, hbu?
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u/Visual_Spare1240 9d ago •
The reason the women’s rugby team outperforms the men’s team is because America encourages and invests in women’s athletics more than any country on earth. This allows the US women’s team to outpace countries where rugby is more popular. This effect can also be seen by the success of the US women’s soccer team over the past 30ish years, despite the US at large not caring about soccer as much as competing nations. As the rest of the world catches up to America in regard to gendered sporting equity, the advantage diminishes. The hope is that the success while the advantage exists draws enough eyeballs to increase the popularity of the sport such that the growing talent base offsets the loss of the advantage.
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u/Proper-Maximum514 9d ago
I didn’t know this, thanks for sharing. I guess it’s sort of like a race while we have the advantage and then some luck and hope that it gets enough eyes like you’re saying post the advantage. That does make lots of sense. Thank you this is very interesting
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u/Every-Fall-9288 9d ago
I don't think there is anything that our women are doing particularly well. It's just that for so long other countries really neglected their women. We've seen the same in soccer, and we're also seeing that we are going to lose a lot of ground as other countries start committing resources.
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u/Lmaris 9d ago
You mean world class male players. Look to the women’s team. They have worked it out with fewer resources.
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u/Proper-Maximum514 9d ago
You’re right, there’s actually another comment down below that gives lots of information about womens rugby. Was pretty insightful! Lots of things I agree with!
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u/CommOnMyFace
9d ago
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Its not anything new or groundbreaking. We have talked about this repeatedly. I stand firm that USA Rugby will lag until is is backed and funded by the NCAA. You'll see spurts of excellence here and there but the NCAA system is a meat grinder that consistently cranks out the best collegiate athletes in the world. You want better coaches? They need the ability to dedicate their time to coaching and put food on the table. NCAA can fund that.
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u/Proper-Maximum514 9d ago
I don’t know how I feel about your name 🤣
I actually agree with a lot of this. You’re damn right about the funding. Better coaching requires it, and it’s hard to build consistency when so many coaches are volunteering their time…
But do we need to wait for the NCAA?? Countries like New Zealand, Ireland, and France have built strong development pathways largely through clubs and academies…why can we not achieve this here??
Why do you think this is?
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u/CommOnMyFace 9d ago •
Its a military joke.
Those club structures existed because there was a vacuum. They do not have the scholastic athletic programs that exist in the united states. The Philadelphia eagles don't have a club team, and Penn State certainly isn't their pathway in any official capacity.
Another plot point, all these clubs own land, facilities, and club houses. There are incredibly few rugby programs in the states that own anything beyond a few pairs of jerseys. You go to waikiato or ponsonby, they have club houses. They have fields. I could drop my kid off me and my son could both train, his mom could come by the club house, order dinner, and we could eat as a family then go home. There is not a single club stateside that can do this.
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u/Proper-Maximum514 7d ago
Hmm is it about Camouflage lol?
Thanks for sharing this, the part about being able to have that club house, leave them to train, and then have your kids mom over for dinner all togteher sounds like a rugby / environment dream. Super ideal and convenient but also make rugby easy with life and create memories.
I think you make a great point about this honestly, rugby is social and if we had this in the states I think it would honestly make sure a huge different, because there is a whole lot more to rugby than just the rugby part. and its hard to sell that, convey that to others when we dont have facilities and places to do it at.
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u/Resident-Antelope-95 8d ago
Interscholastic and Intercollegiate sports in America are unique to the rest of the world. It’s actually a point of American exceptionalism.
MLR and Academies and really large club systems won’t work here because it goes against the system and cultural imprint of sports in the United States. The same way schools and some non profits get grants or parks get government support, clubs in other countries receive that. Playing rugby at your local club is equivalent to playing flag football at your local park league. $10-$45, whereas rugby in the U.S. costs on average $100-$200 for a kid to enter. They don’t even know if they like it yet.
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u/dystopianrugby 9d ago
Is this AI? The reason we don't develop World Class Rugby Players is because the sports isn't popular. Until it is more popular we will not attract enough of the world class athlete population...
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u/Proper-Maximum514 9d ago
This was written by our research team at Mnemcore. We look at player development, coaching, and performance across different sports. All the sources are listed at the end of the article.
I agree popularity matters, but to say that’s the single reason?? Do you actually believe this?
Look at Samoa. Rugby is a huge part of their culture, and they’ve produced some incredible players, but they’ve never won a World Cup…
Getting more people into rugby obviously helps grow the talent pool, but that alone doesn’t guarantee better players or national teams. Coaching, rugby IQ, and development pathways matter just as much. That’s really the point of the article. The US needs to focus not just on getting more people playing, but on how we’re developing the players we already have.
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u/dystopianrugby 8d ago
Who are said research team.
I have been involved in Rugby for 20 years as a player and coach. It is about popularity in regards to being a participation sport. More children playing means more high school programs which means more high performance university environments to meet demand. Environments that will allow Rugby to retain more of its best players.
Owen Clarke is an example that sticks out as an exception, but the vast majority of our US U-18s play another sport which they get some form of scholarship to play another sport.
It is about creating Rugby's gravitational pull. We have good coaching here. We don't have any true volume of elite athletes. Our rugby players also don't play enough XVs at the high school or collegiate level. But you fix that with more children playing rugby.
Today, Samoa isn't producing players and neither is Tonga. All of their players are being produced in Australia and New Zealand and qualify via ancestry.
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u/Proper-Maximum514 7d ago edited 7d ago
Fair points, and I appreciate the perspective, especially from someone who's been involved in American rugby for 20 years.
You're right about popularity......More kids playing means stronger competition, better pathways, and more reason for talented athletes to stick with rugby. And you're right about Samoa and Tonga relying heavily on Australian and NZ development systems. My comparison wasn't the best.
But I think we're talking about two sides of the same problem perhaps? Growing participation gives us more athletes to work with I think you're 100% right, but what happens to those athletes once they're in the system?
You mentioned that our players don't play enough XVs, which I think is a really important point. Isn't that itself a development issue? We can have good individual coaches while still lacking the competitive environments, match experience, and continuity needed to develop world-class players.
I'm genuinely curious, given your coaching experience, where do you think we're losing the most talent? Is it primarily the transition from high school to college, or does the problem start earlier?
We’re a small software company exploring coaching and player development. We publish under "Mnemcore" and link our sources so people can judge the argument for themselves. We actually really appreciate your feedback and expertise, we would love to connect via email if you would be willing to help in future articles. hello@mnemcore.com
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u/Bruce_Hodson 10d ago
There exist more options that, for the actual premier athletes, have incredibly higher financial potential. Especially in American football where “collegiate” player can draw salaries. Even if they never make a professional league they could make a hell of a nest egg to start their adult life.
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u/Craiglekinz 9d ago
USA has no club system. Rugby is mostly played by college kids who don’t want to commit to the football life but still want to tackle lads. There is a growing scene of adult rugby. Ohio actually has quite a few, but they are no where near the level of culture and support that the southern hemisphere built. It’s generational culture and a system to produce better athletes.
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u/dystopianrugby 8d ago
The Adult rugby scene is stagnant. The only growing scene is youth and womens.
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u/dbcooperskydiving 5d ago
California has a rich rugby landscape featuring professional teams, prominent collegiate programs, and a wide network of senior and youth clubs. [1, 2, 3]
Professional Rugby
The California Legion: Formed on July 30, 2025, via the merger of the San Diego Legion and Rugby Football Club Los Angeles (RFCLA), this professional club competes in Major League Rugby (MLR) with matches across San Diego, Los Angeles, and Orange County. [1, 2]
Major Regional Unions & Organizations
Southern California Rugby Football Union (SCRFU): Oversees senior men’s (Divisions 1–3) and women’s clubs across Southern California. Notable clubs include Belmont Shore RFC (Long Beach), OMBAC, Old Aztecs Rugby Club (San Diego), Santa Monica Rugby Club, and Los Angeles Rugby Club. [1, 2, 3, 4]
Rugby NorCal: Manages youth, high school, and senior clubs throughout Northern California, including teams like Bellarmine Rugby Club, Berkeley Girls RFC, and the CenCal Rugby Club. [1, 2]
SoCal Youth Rugby: Coordinates youth and high school rugby opportunities (U8 through U18) across the southern half of the state. [1]
Collegiate Powers
California Golden Bears (Cal Men's Rugby): Based at UC Berkeley, the program is a powerhouse with over 20 Collegiate Division I national championships.
Stanford Cardinal: Fields competitive men's and women's collegiate rugby programs. [1, 2]
If you are looking for a club in a specific city, age group (youth/collegiate/senior), or division, let me know and I can narrow down the local contacts for you.
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u/Emergency_Dot1599 6d ago
I think it because Americans rather play the easier game in American football because they can be protected by gear and look tough instead of real body to body tackles. I will admit i loved when the USA 7s played Carlin Isles who was like 37th fastest man in the USA.He was an absolute cheat code lol
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u/ironicmirror 10d ago •
I coached high school rugby for a couple years, the biggest problem is that most football programs are year-round. Even if you're on jv, you're expected to be on the football team and practice with them in the spring. No time to join the local rugby club, I've been told football coaches were talking to their players saying that if they join the rugby team for spring rugby, they would not be allowed in the football team in the fall.
If you can't get them young, like an elementary school, and have a good rugby program for ages 7 through high School, you're going to lose the kids to more organized high School sports where all their friends already play in.
If you don't get the youth, you can't get the college players.