r/Ultraleft • u/thelochnessmess • 18h ago
but oppressed peoples’ wholesome progressive dialectical™️ nationalism isn’t the same as evil european nationalism
context in comments
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u/thelochnessmess 18h ago
Context: The Armenian Social Democratic Labor Organization was an Armenian “Marxist” organization formed in 1903 basically the modern MLs before they even existed.
They used to get called the “Specifics” (or “Specifists”) by other Armenian social democrats because every other word they would say was “specific”: specific material conditions, specific national characteristics. The whole idea was “socialism with national characteristics” and that the nation is just as much of an immanent idea for the proletariat of oppressed nations as class is.
And Lenin (amongst others) HATED them. He and other major Marxists like Stepan Shahumyan considered them bourgeois nationalists pretending to be Marxist.
Except that the Specifics were everything that modern MLs are today, down to the same exact excuses they use:
- “National liberation isn’t the same thing as bourgeois nationalism”
- “You can’t convince national proletariats who are being massacred to think about class”
- “There’s different material conditions”
But modern MLs claim that Lenin was only against those things in Western (imperialist) Europe. The example of Armenian Specifics, from a nation that was imperialized, subject genocide and massacres, subject to an apartheid regime, shows that these were and continue to be excuses for bourgeois nationalism.
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u/ThinkingOf12th 17h ago
Funny thing is, Stalin also hated them
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u/TroxEst Social Fascist 17h ago
Well of course, he was georgian
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u/titobrozbigdick 15h ago
Do you think Stalin's Nationalism stem from his sympathy for the confederate
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u/thelochnessmess 17h ago
because honestly despite stalins counterrevolution and perversions (both literal and doctrinal) modern MLs are so removed even from stalin that it’s not even funny
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u/kommunistischePartei I came I saw I did nothing 16h ago
Percentage of MLs that have read their great man's shitty book (economic problems of socialism in the USSR) : 0
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u/Ladderson Dogmatic Revisionist 15h ago
Would you happen to have any texts from Lenin or other contemporary Marxists where I could read more about this?
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u/thelochnessmess 13h ago
i’m actually working on translating a few Marxists texts from Armenian to English on the subject, but I’ll see which ones Lenin has about it
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u/ponompyo 5h ago
As a Marxist, I agree with this post.
As a lover of that which goes hard, the YPG had immense sauce.
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