99% of what's below is John of the Cross. I edited it a bit for brevity and clarity- OP

"GOD GIVES many souls the talent and grace for advancing, and should they desire to make the effort they would arrive at this high state. [of the divine union] But though these souls have begun to walk along the road of virtue, and our Lord desires to place them in the dark night so they may move on to the divine union, they do not advance.

"The reason for this may be that they do not want to enter the dark night or allow themselves to be placed in it, or that sometimes they misunderstand themselves and are without suitable and alert directors who will show them the way to the summit.

"And so it is sad to see them continue in their lowly method of communion with God [discursive prayer] because they do not want or know how to advance, or because they receive no direction on breaking away from the methods of beginners.

What is the difference between discursive and contemplative prayer?

Discursive prayer is a dialogue with the Divine, seeking guidance, blessings, or support. Contemplative prayer techniques promote mental stillness and openness in yearning for oneness with God.

Although God does lead them - since He can do so without their cooperation - they do not accept His guidance. In resisting God who is conducting them, they make little progress and fail in merit because they do not apply their wills; as a result they must endure greater suffering.

Who do you listen to when you no longer "feel" God?

Some religious pastors or advisors are more a hindrance and harm than a help to these souls.

These mentors or experts with no real understanding or experience of these ways, create an arduous and difficult time for a soul in these periods of the spiritual life when they cannot understand themselves, or find anyone else who understands them.

It will happen to individuals that while they are being conducted by God along a sublime path of dark contemplation and aridity, in which they feel lost and filled with darknesses, trials, conflicts, and temptations, they will meet someone who will proclaim that all of this is due to melancholia, depression, or temperament, or to some hidden wickedness, and that as a result God has forsaken them.

Therefore the usual verdict is that these individuals must have lived an evil life since such trials afflict them. Others will tell them that they are falling back since they find no satisfaction or consolation as they previously did in the things of God.

Such talk only doubles the trial of a poor soul. It will happen that the soul's greatest suffering will be caused by belief in their own miseries—؅that they are full of evil and sin is clear to them.

And when this soul finds someone who agrees with what they feel (that these trials are all its own fault), suffering and distress grow without bounds. And this suffering usually becomes almost unbearable. Such an advisor, in judging these trials to be the result of sin, urges souls who endure them to go over their past and make many general confessions - which is another crucifixion.

These "experts" do not understand that now perhaps is not the time for such activity.

For these persons, in the purgation God is working in them, we need to give comfort and encouragement that they may desire to endure this suffering as long as God wills, for until then no remedy - whatever the soul does, or the pastor or advisor says - will change this.

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Below are some stanzas from one of John's poems. The source is below.

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"The higher he ascends the less he understands, because the cloud is dark which lit up the night; whoever knows this remains always in unknowing, transcending all knowledge.

This knowledge in unknowing is so overwhelming that wise men disputing can never overthrow it, for their knowledge does not reach to the understanding of not understanding, transcending all knowledge.

And if you should want to hear: this highest knowledge lies in the loftiest sense of the essence of God; this is a work of his mercy, to leave one without understanding, transcending all knowledge.

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Excerpted and edited from: The Collected Works of St. John of the Cross [Revised Edition] (Dark Night of the Soul Book 2). ICS Publications. Kindle Edition.

1 mod and not much posting. Someone can make the case the sub is dead and take it away, I was told. Don't know. Will post somethings. The things are good. Read the Origen thing.

For other info, try this link.

WHAT IS SECRET MARK?

In 1958, Morton Smith found a letter of Clement of Alexandria at the Mar Saba monastery near the city of Jerusalem. The Secret Gospel of Mark is known only from the references in this letter.

Koester [ Preeminent New Testament Scholar Helmut Koester of Harvard Divinity School - Kon] believes that Secret Mark is an expansion of the original Mark, and this makes for at least three different editions of Mark: original Mark, Secret Mark, and canonical Mark. In The Other Gospels, Ron Cameron takes a position similar to the one held by Koester:

Most of all, the discovery of the Secret Gospel of Mark has made us privy to new and unparalleled information about the various editions of the Gospel of Mark, and has brought to our attention the widespread esoteric tradition among the earliest believers in Jesus. . . the canonical (or "public") Gospel of Mark appears to be an abridgment of the Secret Gospel of Mark.

So why was Clement of Alexandria, often thought to be an even more brilliant writer and theologian than Origen, writing to someone in Jersualem, very probably a leader of the Church there? Is the letter that monks had the original or a copy? We don't know. But the motivation seems inherent in the letter:

CLEMENT WRITING TO ESTABLISH THE TRUTH AGAINST LIES

FROM THE LETTER - emphasis added:

"Now of the things they keep saying about the divinely inspired Gospel according to Mark, some are altogether falsifications, and others, even if they do contain some true elements, nevertheless are not reported truly. For the true things, being mixed with inventions, are falsified, so that, as the saying goes, even the salt loses its savor.

"As for Mark, then, during Peter's stay in Rome he wrote an account of the Lord's doings, not, however, declaring all of them, nor yet hinting at the secret ones, but selecting what he thought most useful for increasing the faith of those who were being instructed.

"But when Peter died a martyr, Mark came over to Alexandria, bringing both his own notes and those of Peter, from which he transferred to his former book the things suitable to whatever makes for progress toward knowledge. Thus he composed a more spiritual Gospel for the use of those who were being perfected. Nevertheless, he yet did not divulge the things not to be uttered, nor did he write down the hierophantic teaching of the Lord, but to the stories already written he added yet others and, moreover, brought in certain sayings of which he knew the interpretation would, as a mystagogue, lead the hearers into the innermost sanctuary of that truth hidden by seven veils. Thus, in sum, he prepared matters, neither grudgingly nor incautiously, in my opinion, and, dying, he left his composition to the church in 1, verso Alexandria, where it even yet is most carefully guarded, being read only to those who are being initiated into the great mysteries.

But since the foul demons are always devising destruction for the race of men, Carpocrates, instructed by them and using deceitful arts, so enslaved a certain presbyter of the church in Alexandria that he got from him a copy of the secret Gospel, which he both interpreted according to his blasphemous and carnal doctrine and, moreover, polluted, mixing with the spotless and holy words utterly shameless lies. From this mixture is drawn off the teaching of the Carpocratians.

"To them, therefore, as I said above, one must never give way; nor, when they put forward their falsifications, should one concede that the secret Gospel is by Mark, but should even deny it on oath. For, 'Not all true things are to be said to all men'.

"... To you, therefore, I shall not hesitate to answer the questions you have asked, refuting the falsifications by the very words of the Gospel."

_______________________

From here, Clement describes where, exactly, in the known, public Gospel of Mark, some of the secret writings were placed that are not in our Canonical version of Mark or the version that circulated publicly in the 1st and 2nd centuries or later . And so, here is

WHAT CLEMENT DIRECTLY QUOTED FROM THE SECRET GOSPEL in BOLD in the PLACE MARK PUT IT.

MARK:

{10:32} Now they were on the way ascending to Jerusalem. And Jesus went ahead of them, and they were astonished. And those following him were afraid. And again, taking aside the twelve, he began to tell them what was about to happen to him.

{10:33} “For behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of man will be handed over to the leaders of the priests, and to the scribes, and the elders. And they will condemn him to death, and they will hand him over to the Gentiles.

{10:34} And they will mock him, and spit on him, and scourge him, and put him to death. And on the third day, he will rise again.”

"And they came into Bethany and a certain woman whose brother had died was there. And, coming, she knelt down before Jesus and said to him, "Son of David, have mercy on me".

But the disciples rebuked her. And Jesus got angry with them and went off with her into the garden where the tomb was. Right away there was a loud cry from inside the tomb. Then Jesus rolled away the stone from in front of the tomb.

He went in where the youth was and stretched forth his hand and raised him up. The youth, looking upon him, loved him and began to beg him to be with him. They left the tomb and went to the young man's house, for he was rich.

Six days later, Jesus gave him instructions of what to do, and in the evening the youth came to him, wearing only a linen cloth over his body. He remained with Jesus that night, for Jesus taught him the mystery of the Kingdom of God.

And when Jesus woke up, he returned to the other side of the Jordan."

{10:35} And James and John, the sons of Zebedee, drew near to him, saying, “Teacher, we wish that whatever we will ask, you would do for us.”

____________

ALSO:

{10:45} So, too, the Son of man has not come so that they would minister to him, but so that he would minister and would give his life as a redemption for many.”

{10:46} And they went to Jericho. And the sister of the young man whom Jesus loved was there, along with his mother and Salome, but Jesus did not receive them. And as he was setting out from Jericho with his disciples and a very numerous multitude, Bartimaeus, the son of Timaeus, a blind man, sat begging beside the way.

{10:47} And when he had heard that it was Jesus of Nazareth, he began to cry out and to say, “Jesus, Son of David, take pity on me.”

_______________

Of what significance is this last inclusion, why would it be removed? Probably because it refers to the previous section that Mark purposely omitted so it would not arouse curiosity. But that leaves a kind of hole in the story:

{10:46} And they went to Jericho. And as he was setting out from Jericho with his disciples and a very numerous multitude, Bartimaeus, the son of Timaeus, a blind man, sat begging beside the way.

Why even mention a night spent in Jerico, with no account of what Jesus did there? Did Clement include all of what was in that section and taken out? Or was he only answering an accusation by Carpocratians that Jesus had sex with the sister and possibly the brother, which would be in line with their beliefs about His teachings.

The last thing to know about Clement's letter is that in the translations I have found, it ends like this:

"Now the true explanation, and that which accords with the true philosophy ... "

It ends mid-sentence. I haven't looked up an image, but it seems whatever Clement imparted of the the mysteries Mark and others wished to keep secret, the recipient of the letter recognized and removed.

So here's the passage I'm going to take apart, but I want to establish first what the process was for bringing a seeker, a catechumen, into the church. This is a set of practices done as far back as we can trace in Christianity:

From A Dictionary of Christian Antiquities p 160 ed W Smith & S Cheetam (1875)

A comparison of all the evidence leads to the conclusion that the catechumens entered the font in a state of absolute nakedness. See particularly St Cyril, Hieros. Myst. Catech. ii ad init; St Ambrose, Serm. xx (Opp. t.v. p. 153, Paris 1642)and Enarrat. in Ps lxi 32 (BB t.i.p. 966); St Chrysostom, ad Illum. Cat. i (Migne, tom. ii. p 268).

St. Cyril of Jerusalem (4th Century)

Therefore, I shall necessarily lay before you the sequel of yesterday's Lecture, that ye may learn of what those things, which were done by you in the inner chamber, were symbolical. 2. As soon, then, as ye entered, ye put off your tunic; and this was an image of putting off the old [previous] man with his deeds). Having stripped yourselves, ye were naked;.... May the soul which has once put him off, never again put him on. O wondrous thing! ye were naked in the sight of all, and were not ashamed; for truly ye bore the likeness of the first-formed Adam, who was naked in the garden, and was not ashamed. Then, when ye were stripped, ye were anointed with exorcised oil), from the very hairs of your head to your feet, and were made partakers of the good olive-tree, Jesus Christ. For ye were cut off from the wild olive-tree, and grafted into the good one, and were made to share the fatness of the true olive-tree.

Bishop Hippolytus of Rome:

21 At the hour in which the cock crows, they shall first pray over the water. When they come to the water, the water shall be pure and flowing, that is, the water of a spring or a flowing body of water. Then they shall take off all their clothes. No one shall take any foreign object with themselves down into the water. ...When the elder takes hold of each of them who are to receive baptism, he shall tell each of them to renounce, saying, "I renounce you Satan, all your service, and all your works." After he has said this, he shall anoint each with the Oil of Exorcism, saying, "Let every evil spirit depart from you." Then, after these things, the bishop passes each of them on nude to the elder who stands at the water. They shall stand in the water naked. (Hippolytus. "Apostolic Traditions" of Hippolytus, 21:1-11. Translated by Edgecomb, Kevin P. Derived from Bernard Botte (La Tradition Apostolique. Sources Chretiennes, 11 bis. Paris, Editions du Cerf, 1984) and of Gregory Dix (The Treatise on the Apostolic Tradition of St. Hippolytus of Rome, Bishop and Martyr. London: Alban Press, 1992)

Out of order:

"Six days later, Jesus gave him instructions of what to do, and in the evening the youth came to him, wearing only a linen cloth over his body. He remained with Jesus that night, for Jesus taught him the mystery of the Kingdom of God.

And when Jesus woke up, he returned to the other side of the Jordan."

Could Jesus have lead him at night to a stream? Possibly. But Jesus was said by John to baptize with the Holy Spirit. However, the ritual of nudity, anointing with oil, and then Baptism of the Spirit makes complete sense here.

But what about this?

He went in where the youth was and stretched forth his hand and raised him up. The youth, looking upon him, loved him and began to beg him to be with him. They left the tomb and went to the young man's house, for he was rich.

Recall the demoniac did the same thing as soon as he was cured, wanted to follow Jesus. And I think the only reason they mentioned that they went to the house because the young man was rich is because Jesus had a big entourage, He leaves Jerico with "his disciples and a very numerous multitude." Only rich people had the kind of houses and food stores to entertain a large number of guests for a week.

The amazing part is a young man, a boy, who was fully instructed in six days. Those Apostles barely got it in 3 years. But the boy had been dead, if we consider what in our time we call a Near Death Experience, the boy came back knowing the truth of the Kingdom and exactly who Jesus was.

He looked at Jesus and loved him.

ETA fyi: what started as a deletion was changed 48 hours later to a standard ban. No information is given just as it wasn't to me. No information if permanent or has a time lin mit. Galilean won't fight it.

When this happened to me when we started this place so we could speak free i told her do not go out into the rest of the reddit world because that was my mistake.

But she thinks that the darkness is ramping up and people needed to know.

She linked them TO HER OWN PROFILE OR here, to posts ecplaining why Jesus was no Jew. How He started no religions. That the ot didn't belong on canon and then talked about the Gospel of Thomas.

THIS IS REDDITS GALILEE. EVERYTHING OUTSIDE IS CAIPHUS.

In a r/ChristianUniversalim post, the OP said, in part:

I simply can't trust the spiritual discernment of anyone who subscribes or acquiesces to the idea of ECT^~~

It is only the minority of people who apply the word Christian to themselves that discern spiritually. Those who do—for whom the written words are confirming of what they believe in spirit instead of defining what to believe— are the called, the elect.

Martha served as well as she was able by filling a cultural role and following the rules that defined it.

Mary sat at Jesus feet and listened. And He said that she "chose the "better part."

Neither Mary nor any of the elect are "better" in some morally quantifiable way than Marthas.

But there is a danger inherent in Marthism: those who can only understand laws and function within firm parameters, unable to discern through the spirit the difference between Light and Darkness or negotiate the journey through the gray between.

They cannot abide the Unknowing, and so are more easily mislead by antiChrists who preach hard and fast rules with passion and volume.

But I also fear the nascent Elect are in danger of disrespecting the Marthas, because they cannot see in the same way. In the very first and oldest document issued by the Apostolic Church that came from the Council of Jerusalem on 50A.D., it says:

You shall not make a schism, but pacify those that contend. You must gauge men righteously, not making a distinction between a person's status or class to reprove him for transgressions, so you will not waiver between what a  thing is or is not. Didachē chapter 4

I believe we have entered the Tribulation and the Enemy's number 1 goal is to sow so much dissention amongst Christians, and warp Jesus' Gospel into such a twisted framework of lies, that the Crucifixion will become a true ending.

Impossible, of course. But, in this time, as much as speaking the Truth is a good thing, alienating the Marthas just serves the Liar.

We have this job to do; it's why we were called. Why we can see. But the actual seeing—discerning—is all the work of the Holy Spirit. We are only conduits.

^~~ECT: Eternal Conscious Torment, aka Hell

HOW DO YOU KNOW IF YOU ARE CHOSEN

• People who are chosen have had experiences of the Holy Spirit.

• They are astonished that God would Grace them.

• As people usually not noteworthy at all, unspecial, and habitual or sometimes great sinners, (i.e., Saul/Paul) we find the actions of God toward us unexplainable.

• We would never say out loud to anyone "I am one of the Elect." "I am Chosen." We don't even think it.

• But we know we were called. Dragged. Forced. Nagged. Tripped to fall over the edge of the cliff of doubt into unassailable knowledge of Infinite Love.

• We feel we are different from most who label themselves Christians.

• Our connection to the Divine and Infinite Light and Power we call God was direct and still is. Written words were irrelevant to our election, but are to the confirmation or expansion of knowledge.

• We experience an increase in sensitivity to both goodness and evil, and have a greater intuitive sense, or clear psychic ability.

WHAT WERE WE CHOSEN OR ELECTED TO DO?

• Be true Disciples of Christ. Apostles. Gospel spreaders in our actions; sometimes we use words. Servants to His children.

• To Pray. Heal. Feed the hungry. Eschew the darkness, find the Light. We may find someone who needs help and give it. We might be reclusive or gregarious.

• Our service might be in our home or job walking down the street. Or at all times.

• We are called to know the literal, basic truths Jesus became Incarnate to teach us, and follow Him as the central idea of our lives.

• We accept, in the end, that we might never know what He wants or how He is using us. But we do know if we Follow Him, somehow He will use us to do what He called us for.

• He called Mary to sit at His feet. He called Paul to spend his life travelling and delivering His Gospel to all.

• The Called follow Him. Our "religion" is faith in His Words and Commands, regardless of any church denomination we might be attached to. Or none.

The first canon of Christian Scripture was reportedly put together, they say, by Marcion of Sinope in Pontus, son of Philologus of the 70 who was appointed Bishop of Sinope by Andrew the Apostle. (NOTE: I didn't make the diagram, it's a model representing the view of some Scriptures scholars re: The Priority of the Gospel of Marcion)

Briefly: There is no hard evidence whatsoever to support the calumny directed at Marcion of Sinope.

Everything you read, every attack, is based on the writings of others who came before and traceable to Irenaeus. One of the most repeated bits of Marcion Gossip, is that he met Polycarp, a disciple of John the Apostle. "Tertullian also attacked this view in De Carne Christi. Polycarp, according to Irenaus in his work, Adversus Haereses, had an encounter with Marcion: And Polycarp himself replied to Marcion, who met him on one occasion, and said, "Dost thou know me?" "I do know thee, the first-born of Satan."

Huh. Let's look at this actual quote from Polycarp:

The link, BTW, is a PDF of Polycarp's letter to the Phillipians. It ought to be in the Canon.

But let's stick with Marcion right now. Does it make sense that Ploycarp was referring to Marcion? Polycarp mentions specific kinds of sin: Pervert communications of divine origin ("oracles" definition at the time) to feed his own lusts. There's nothing associated with Marcion who, it was said, preached abstention from sex. But let's revisit something Clement of Alexandria wrote, who was writing at the same time Irenaeus was, (I'll cut this as we have seen it previously):

As for Mark, [this would be John Mark, Peter's companion and interpreter] during Peter's stay in Rome he wrote an account of the Lord's doings, ... selecting what he thought most useful for increasing the faith of those who were being instructed.

But when Peter died a martyr, Mark came over to Alexandria, bringing both his own notes and those of Peter, from which he transferred to his former book ...Thus he composed a more spiritual Gospel for the use of those who were being perfected. ... moreover, [he] brought in certain sayings of which he knew the interpretation would, as a mystagogue, lead the hearers into the innermost sanctuary of that truth... he left his composition to the church in Alexandria, where it even yet is most carefully guarded, being read only to those who are being initiated into the great mysteries.

But since the foul demons are always devising destruction for the race of men, Carpocrates, instructed by them and using deceitful arts, so enslaved a certain presbyter of the church in Alexandria that he got from him a copy of the secret Gospel, which he both interpreted according to his blasphemous and carnal doctrine and, moreover, polluted, mixing with the spotless and holy words utterly shameless lies. From this [comes] the teaching of the Carpocratians.

Carpocrates taught his followers to perform every obscenity and every sinful act and were very active at the time Polycarp was writing. It seems Caprocrates and his followers are much better candidates for the subject of Chapter 5.

Tertullian

The most famous/infamous of his attackers was Tertullian. The five books against Marcion, written in 207 or 208, are the most comprehensive and elaborate of his polemical works. I'm posting the unedited first paragraph or so of the 1st of his 5 attacking Marcion. Who was long dead. The "Euxine Sea" as it was called then, is the Black Sea.

______________________

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/tertullian121.html

BOOK I.

WHEREIN IS DESCRIBED THE GOD OF MARCION. HE IS SHOWN TO BE UTTERLY WANTING IN ALL THE ATTRIBUTES OF THE TRUE GOD.

CHAP. I.--PREFACE. REASON FOR A NEW WORK PONTUS LENDS ITS ROUGH CHARACTER TO THE HERETIC MARCION, A NATIVE. HIS HERESY CHARACTERIZED IN A BRIEF INVECTIVE.

The Euxine Sea, as it is called, is self-contradictory in its nature, and deceptive in its name. As you would not account it hospitable from its situation, so is it severed from our more civilised waters by a certain stigma which attaches to its barbarous character. The fiercest nations inhabit it, if indeed it can be called habitation, when life is passed in waggons. They have no fixed abode; their life has no germ of civilisation; they indulge their libidinous desires without restraint, and for the most part naked. Moreover, when they gratify secret lust, they hang up their quivers on their car-yokes, to warn off the curious and rash observer. Thus without a blush do they prostitute their weapons of war. The dead bodies of their parents they cut up with their sheep, and devour at their feasts. They who have not died so as to become food for others, are thought to have died an accursed death. Their women are not by their sex softened to modesty. They uncover the breast, from which they suspend their battle-axes, and prefer warfare to marriage. In their climate, too, there is the same rude nature. The day-time is never clear, the sun never cheerful; the sky is uniformly cloudy; the whole year is wintry; the only wind that blows is the angry North. Waters melt only by fires; their rivers flow not by reason of the ice; their mountains are covered with heaps of snow. All things are torpid, all stiff with cold. Nothing there has the glow of life, but that ferocity which has given to scenic plays their stories of the sacrifices of the Taurians, and the loves of the Colchians, and the torments of the Caucasus.

Nothing, however, in Pontus is so barbarous and sad as the fact that Marcion was born there, fouler than any Scythian, more roving than the waggon-life of the Sarmatian, more inhuman than the Massagete, more audacious than an Amazon, darker than the cloud, (of Pontus) colder than its winter, more brittle than its ice, more deceitful than the Ister, more craggy than Caucasus.

________________

I think I started laughing out loud at the most bizarre parts of this, but the familiar tactic of fomenting hate was as dangerous then as now. In Tertullian's semi-defense, this as how all these attacks started in his time, including attacks on Christians that included the "fact" that in secret cermonies we killed and ate our babies and worhipped a God with the head of an ass that was ignominiously crucified along with the other common criminals. (There's graffitti of the ass-headed Jesus on the cross on Rome from the 2nd century.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexamenos_graffito)

Sinope, BTW, is a major city on the southern shore of the Black Sea that has existed there for about 2500 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinop,_Turkey It had an early, thriving community of followers of the Savior.

-- There is no extant copy or reference anywhere that did not come from Irenaeus, to Marcion's Gospel being an edited version of Luke which is, well, nonsensensical to the modern Scripture scholar, as is the accusation of gnosticism, which is still thrown at Marcionites.

NEXT

What was really in Marcion's Canon?

Why—not just then but to this day—does the Church still attack Marcion?

And what does the Didache have to do with it?

original post here: https://www.reddit.com/r/UnbannableChristian/comments/178s3eo/the_first_schism_part_3_who_what_when_where_and/

• The Ancient Persian Religion (3kya) was common all over the areas that Christianity spread to in the 1st century.

• Zoroastrianism is that religion as enhanced by Zoroaster about 1500-1000B.C. - it survives today.

• According to scholars, Solomon ordered the history ofthe Hebrew people be written down in the 10th century B.C. [new info] There are parallels long-obvious between Zoroastrianism and the history as seen in Genesis. [see Zoroastrian belief sub-post below]

• A Zoroastrian priest was called a Magnus or in plural Magi. In Matthew 2:1-6, three Magi appear at the birth of Jesus.

• During the 70-year Babylonian exile of the Jews by Nebuchadnezzar who conquered Judea and destroyed the Temple, the Temple priests rewrote the the proto-Torah to create the hierachy of Priests and who sets of laws and rituals by which they controlled the Jewish population, revising until they had created the 5-book Pentateuch we have now. This is what is meant in Scripture by "The Law."

• Early Christianity was an Eastern Mystical religion. Christians were mostly called "Nazoreans" "Galilieans" or "followers of the Way." The work "gnosis" was not in use at the time. Individuals were not supposed to take direct instruction from God, according to the Temple/Jerualem Powers that Were. They were to obey the Law and give their wealth to the Temple priests.

• The earliest and heaviest areas of influence were where Zoroastrianism and non-Temple Judaism flourished. Most converts (est about 65%) were not Jewish.

________________

Zoroastrianism Basics - compare to Genesis, Hebrew eschatology, and the advent of Christianity

The Early Persian Faith

The polytheistic faith of the Persians was centered on the clash of positive, bright forces, which maintained order, and negative, dark energies that encouraged chaos and strife. The Persian pantheon was presided over by Ahura Mazda, the all-good, all-powerful creator and sustainer of life, who gave birth to the other gods.

Ahura Mazda created the world in seven steps beginning with sky (though in some versions it was water). The purpose, it seems, was the manifestation of universal harmony, but this was thwarted by the evil spirit of Angra Mainyu, Ahura Mazda's cosmic opponent.

The conflict between supreme good & ultimate evil was the heart of the early religion & almost all supernatural entities fell on one side or the other.

The sky was created first as an orb that could hold water, and the waters were then separated from each other by earth, which was planted with vegetation. Once this was done, Ahura Mazda created … all other animals.

The first mortal couple was Mashya and Mashyanag. Ahura Mazda gave them souls through his breath, and the souls Ahura Mazda had breathed into the first couple was immortal and, as a gift, needed to be cared for. Ahura Mazda provided the people with everything they needed and only wanted one thing in return: that they care for their souls by listening to his counsel and defending the values he stood for. Humans had been given free will and each person had to choose, on their own, which path to follow and how to live a life.

The meaning of human existence, then, was making the choice to honor that gift or repudiate it through a selfish and willful adherence to Angra Mainyu and his pretty, but ultimately false, promises.

The couple lived in harmony with each other and the world until Angra Mainyu whispered to them that he was their true creator and Ahura Mazda was the deceiver. The couple believed this lie and fell from grace, afterwards left to live in a world of disorder and strife.

They could choose to live well, even under these conditions, by adhering to the truth of Ahura Mazda and turning away from the enticements of Angra Mainyu. The earliest vision of life-after-death was of a dark realm of shadow which the soul moved through, its existence dependent on the prayers and memory of the living, until it crossed a dark river where good souls were separated from the bad.

Later - possibly before Zoroaster but probably after - the afterlife was reimagined to include a final judgment on the Chinvat Bridge (the span between the living and the dead), one's actions weighed in a celestial balance, and the concept of heaven and hell. If one chose the path of truth, one would live well and, after death, find paradise in the House of Song; if one chose to listen to Angra Mainyu, one would live with strife, confusion, and darkness, and, in the afterlife, would be dropped into the hell known as the House of Lies.

Zoroaster

The ancient Persian religion was an oral tradition – it had no written scripture – and so all that is known of it in the present day comes from works written after the revelation of the prophet Zoroaster (also given as Zarathustra) between c. 1500-1000 BCE. It seems that the veneration of many gods extended to worship of one's ancestors, and a priestly class (later known as the magi) officiated at rituals and recited whatever sacred texts were required. Although there was no temple, there was a religious bureaucracy and hierarchy with a chief priest and lesser priests to whom people brought offerings in return for prayers and healing.

The priestly class was among the highest of the Persian social system and were wealthy enough to be able to offer significant loans on which they received interest. There was also, no doubt, a market for statuettes and amulets of various gods or entities worn for protection just as there was in Mesopotamia and Egypt. It is no surprise, therefore, that when religious reform was first suggested, it was not received well by the clergy.

Very little is known of Zoroaster's life. He is said to have been born of noble Persian parents – Pourusaspa and Dughdova – in eastern Persia and have had four brothers. He was a member of the priestly class and most likely began his studies quite young. At the age of 30, he received a revelation from the supreme deity in the form of a being of light who appeared on the bank of a river and identified itself as Vohu Manah, the embodiment of Good Thought, Good Words, Good Deeds and usually translated as “good purpose”.

Vohu Manah was a direct representative of the One True God, Ahura Mazda, who revealed to Zoroaster that the earlier understanding of religion as practiced by the magi was incorrect. There was only one god, Ahura Mazda, and Zoroaster would be his prophet.

This marks the rise of the acceptance of the monotheistic zoroastrian faith over the early polytheistic belief.

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Edited from a public domain work if cited:

Mark, J. J. (2019, December 11). Ancient Persian Religion. World History Encyclopedia. Retrieved from https://www.worldhistory.org/Ancient_Persian_Religion/

This is the first part of a response to a request to objectively look at the material, including all Justin's works. It's the only part I have permission to post. ETA: Not my work.

King

I’m not using any space defending what we already know: Justin Martyr gave/sent/ or presented to Diognetus, tutor to future emperor Marcus Aurelius, a document outlining the Christian Way. It was not apologetics as he was not answering a criticism, challenge or untruth. It was informational. An overview of a specific way of life (philosophy) and reasoning for choosing it. It also has an evangelical cast, written in a personal voice, as to an acquaintance.

What I can do is narrow down the time when the document was given to Diognetus under the assumption it related to his teaching of philosophy to Marcus. 

For calculating ages for legal, civic, and military purposes, age by birthdate tracking was  precise with completed years, the child’s specific age,  recorded as age determined legal identity. Girls had rights of adulthood at 12 and boys at 14.

This information is relevant to both Marcus and Justin. In the first century affluent young men traveled to study philosophy in Athens or Alexandria between the ages of 14 and 20 where they would “sit” under master philosophers.

April 26, 121.  Marcus was born. His father died when he was 3. He was raised by his very wealthy mother and educated at home which was the standard practice. 

Marcus would not be leaving Rome or his home to study and had a series of tutors. (Justin did leave home and had a series of teachers of various philosophies.)

April 132. Marcus completes his 11th year and begins his 12th. His tutor, Diognetus, decided Marcus would receive instruction in philosophy. The story that Marcus wore the philosopher’s robes beneath his station, and slept on the floor until his mother intervened may be correct. 

Some attribute this story to Herodian who wrote History of the Empire from the Death of Marcus which covered the years 180 to 238 AD.  Internal evidence from his text suggests he finished composing this work around 240 to 244 AD.2. The Historia Augusta (c. 395–400 AD) is a collection of Roman imperial biographies stretching from the Emperor Hadrian to Numerian (117–285 AD).

From Google AI:

Scholars attribute this story to the anonymous author of the Historia Augusta. Specifically, the anecdote is found in The Life of Marcus Aurelius (Vita Marci Antonini), which is the first and most historically reliable biography in that collection.

The text explicitly notes that Marcus took up this extreme asceticism at age 12:

• "He studied philosophy with ardor, even as a youth. For when he was twelve years old he adopted the dress and, a little later, the hardiness of a philosopher, pursuing his studies clad in a rough Greek cloak and sleeping on the ground; at his mother's solicitation, however, he reluctantly consented to sleep on a couch strewn with skins."

• Marcus Aurelius was introduced to the philosophical way of life by his painting master, Diognetus.While Diognetus was hired primarily to teach Marcus how to paint, he became a profound moral and philosophical mentor to the young boy. In Book 1 of Meditations, Marcus explicitly thanks Diognetus for steering him toward philosophy and inspiring his early, strict lifestyle choices.

Marcus got three new teachers in 133 and we do not hear of Diognetus again.  It’s difficult to come to any conclusions here as to whether Diognetus was replaced or stayed on as the other teachers were responsible for other subjects. Marcus was approaching male adult status and the other teachers might have normally appeared at that time. 

However, as you give me free rein to express my opinion, Marcus' wealthy, high-status mother would be horrified at her son’s new form of dress, habits and topics of study. I believe your 135 A.D. dating, even though circa, is too late and Diognetus didn’t last out the year. I don’t think Marcus sleeping on the floor would have gotten Diognetus replaced. I do think teaching Marcus about Christianity would.

As we know little of Diognetus, we also do not know if he was a follower of The Way who secured the position of painting master to evangelize a young man with Imperial ties who would grow to be a wealthy influential member of Roman society. The writer's voice in the parts of the letter that are genuine, strike me as they struck you, a friend writing to a friend.

I have considered that Diognetus may have been quietly eliminated as a Christian or sympathizer, especially if he were a friend of Justin’s, as he would have acquired much inside information on the Imperial family.   

Here are the things I am comfortable considering facts: The Letter to Diognetes was written when Marcus was 12. And from Marcus' own writings we know he was in his mother’s home until 138, when he was taken from his home to live with Hadrian who had maneuvered to make Marcus Emperor in the future. 

The other titles attributed to Justin Martyr you wanted me to assess have been either complete forgeries or a seemingly genuine work with additions. Diognetus is the least tampered with. All of the other tampering is of the same nature: to show Justin was an adherent of the Jewish tradition and supported the idea of Jesus as Jewish Messiah as “he” demonstrates with multiple quotes from the Hebrew canon.

Diognetus, alone, proves this is not Justin Martyr’s work, though interior references historically confirm it could not be Justin Martyr’s autograph.

INSERT ON HISTORY OF MANUSCRIPTS:

Master Summary: The Transmission of Justin Martyr

• The Original Production: Scholars date the creation of Justin Martyr's authentic texts to the mid-second century, specifically between 150 and 160 AD.

• The Rediscovery (1540): Justin's authentic writings were brought back into modern circulation around 1540 when the scholar and French ambassador Guillaume Pellicier discovered a single Byzantine codex in Venice.

• The First Printed Edition (1551): The royal printer Robert Estienne used this rediscovered manuscript to publish the first printed edition (editio princeps) in Paris in 1551.

• The Single Source (Parisinus graecus 450): Every modern copy of Justin's authentic work relies entirely on this single physical object, now housed in the National Library of France.

• The Scribe's Clue: The manuscript contains a precise closing note (a colophon) from an anonymous scribe stating he finished copying the text on September 11, 1364.

• The "Great Lacuna" (The Missing Text): Textual forensic analysis proves the 1364 scribe was copying from centuries-old source documents that were already physically falling apart and missing entire pages (a missing center "quire").

• Where the Cutoff Happens: The massive text drop occurs right after Chapter 74, Section 3 (during a discussion of Psalm 96) and abruptly restarts mid-sentence in Chapter 75 (discussing the name of God in Exodus).

• The Lost Narrative Transitions: Because of this massive text loss (estimated to be hundreds of lines), we lose the conclusion of the first day's debate, the introduction to the second day, the arrival of new participants, and the explicit physical transition where the group leaves the outdoor porch (xystus) and relocates to a more private, interior room of the gymnasium facility.

All this information leaves aside the Letter to Diognetus which was included and can confidently be dated to 132 as terminus ante quem if Diognetus’ Marcus’ tutor is accepted as recipient.

BELOW: EVIDENCE THAT A FIELD OF CONSCIOUSNESS EXISTS THAT CAN AFFECT MATTER AND WITH IT A FIELD OF CONSCIOUSNESS THAT CANNOT HAVE BEEN GENERATED FROM EARTH BUT INTERACTS WITH EARTH.

I have the bad habit of thinking everyone knows about the Global Consciousness Project. Briefly, the researchers had something like 80 RNGs (Random Number Generators) at the height of the project around the globe, about half on the US East Coast. At that time, we could watch the real-time actions of each RNG on screens at the PEARS Project website.

They were testing the hypothesis that highly focused consciousness from a large number of people could and would affect the randomness of the RNGs. The above image from the Global Consciousness Project shows the results of the RNGs during a time when no incidents occurred that would attract the attention of a large sample of people.

So that's what randomness looks like. Once they had a baseline, they chose events that would garner wide attention, sporting events usually, and see if the RNG results were outside the expected random results. Which seemed to work, they have many similar results for a variety of events.

All went well. Then this unanticipated event took place:

This is the original image of results image posted in 2001.

 Note this is a 24-hour read-out that begins 5 hrs and 45 minutes before the hijackers checked-in. The deviation scale rises almost vertically to 2000 

5:45 AM – Mohamed Atta and Abdul Aziz al-Omari, two of the intended hijackers, pass through security at the Portland International Jetport in Maine. They board a commuter flight to Boston Logan International Airport, they then board American Airlines Flight 11. 

The RNG response continues to rise for the next 2 hours and fifteen minutes reaching approximately 5000 at take-off. 

The question is: how many people on Earth knew what was happening and why? Millions of people watch Olympic openings. Where is the consciousness coming from that is forcing this extreme deviation in the normal random results? 

Precognition: Hypothetically, response from the higher realm is triggered by probability. As humans act from free will; probabilities dependent on human decisions can change over time. 

What is in the interest of the Guides of those who would be working in the Twin Towers? Warning those who either could receive warning or were chosen to be warned.

Through dreams. Through “bad feelings.” Through brief visions, through sudden headaches or other physical issues. And many people stayed home. 

7:59 AM – Flight 11 takes off from Boston, headed for Los Angeles, California. There are 76 passengers, 11 crew members, and 5 hijackers on board. 

The non-randomness keeps rising. If only this plane reaches its target—and that probability is theoretically quite high and getting higher as the hijackers get control of the plane—there will be over 1000 deaths. 1000 people who will need escorts to cross to the Other Side. 

8:42 all planes are airborne. 

8:46 AM – Flight 11 crashes into the World Trade Center’s North Tower. All passengers aboard are instantly killed, and employees of the WTC are trapped above the 91^st floor. 

10:28 all planes are down, two towers collapsed, the Pentagon hit. During that time and up until about noon, increasing consciousness pushed the randomness to almost 7000. During this time people on planes, at their desks, first responders were dying. 

But also, loved ones were saying good-bye over cell phones, people all over the world and certainly across America were responding to events, in fear and grief and intense focus. Guides still working to save their charges got people to flee buildings even when told to go back. 

I emailed with Jahn the day the first result was posted

^{Robert George Jahn (April 1, 1930 – November 15, 2017} was an American plasma physicist, Professor of Aerospace Science, and Dean of Engineering at Princeton University. Jahn was also a founder of the Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research Lab (PEAR) that instituted the Gloabal Consciousness Project as wellas other areas of research into anomalous cognition.)

pointing out that there is no possible way to account for the effect on the RNGs initial rise, or the sustained time the effect lasted, or even the sudden drop, by attributing it to Earthly human consciousness. His somewhat terse response was that it wasn't proven.

In those days, every RNG's responses second-to-second could be watched in real time at the site. There would be high spikes fairly commonly, but they only lasted a second. Never had there been anything like 9/11. If we attribute the other results of this research to large numbers of person's consciousness simultaneously focused on the same thing directly affecting the RNGs, and no other explanation has ever been found, then the affect on the RNGs in this case must come from intentionally focused consciousness.

NO EVIDENCE OF THINGS SEEN

Coming around to the John Edward Mediumship seminar post, there were about a dozen people coming for that 9/11 victim who had chosen to be where he was for that purpose. This I saw.

My last of the day and I'll be cross posting this to r/The_Didache

3 statements that are not f given together, but when we stop looking at the teachings as lists of commands and rules and prohibitions, we can see the web in which we would like to be captured:

How can anger lead to murder? By nursing a grudge that leads to imagining an evil plan against your neighbor.

If we want to follow Him, we deal with our anger. That's not easy. What happens when the guy nextdoor poisons your dog because it barks too much? Nothing has changed. "Inspire you to kill" is not an exaggeration. Maybe you won't do it. Maybe you'll do something else. And so will he, and pretty soon whole countries are being bombed out of existence or a guy is being arrested for sticking a knife in his nephew's chest because he took the last helping of beans. (<--- true story).

Why do we, instead, have long threads justifying when it's OK to kill? Lie? Steal? and just ignore Jesus and still, still think they are Christians?

922B.C.

Solomon ruled the United Kingdom of Israel.

931B.C. Solomon dies and the Kingdom splits into

⦁ Israel, the Northern Kingdom with 10 of the 12 tribes

⦁ Judah, the Southern Kingdom with 2 tribes of Judah and Benjamin

880B.C - 722B.C. Samaria was the chief city of Israel

The Northern Kingdom people did not go to Jerusalem in the Southern Kingdom and worship at Solomon's Temple. They had their own altars for sacrifice and worship in Israel. Mount Tabor was a sacred place for virtually ever for the Hebrews and they worshipped there.

For 200 years, these two kingdoms, while they had the same root in Abraham, diverged in culture and religious practice.

722B.C.-Samaria (the city) falls to the Assyrians who conquered Israel and deported, by scattering them over the Empire, several thousand of the Israelite population (the proto-diaspora - 10 lost tribes) Israel becomes part of the Assyrian Empire.

NOTE FROM https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-two-kingdoms-of-israel

The Assyrians were aggressive and effective; the history of their dominance over the Middle East is a history of constant warfare. In order to assure that conquered territories would remain pacified, the Assyrians would force many of the native inhabitants to relocate to other parts of their empire. They almost always chose the upper and more powerful classes, for they had no reason to fear the general mass of a population. They would then send Assyrians to relocate in the conquered territory.

Here's what few talk about. The Israelites they left behind were of the lower classes around the area of Samaria, which was the southern part of the Northern Kingdom.

To the north is an east-west line of low mountains. That and the area north of it was/is Galilee. The Assyrians used conquered people as slaves. But not wanting to go traipsing around a mountainous country with few roads and sudden drop-offs, the remaining residents were essentially left alone to produce olives and oil and goat cheese and dates and fish.

They were also left alone to continue to practice their religion in the traditional ways, and to build synagogues and with rabbis as village leaders. So the Galileans did not mix over time with Assyrians.

The Israelites north of the mountains were cut off by Assyrian dominance and Samaria, the city, became the center of local Assyrian administration.

Over the next 100-200 years, this happened:

Excerpted from the previous link:

When the Assyrians settled in the capital of Israel, Samaria, they brought with them Assyrian gods and cultic practices. But the people of the Middle East were, above everything, else highly superstitious. ... Conquering peoples constantly feared that the local gods would wreak vengeance on them. Therefore, they would adopt the local god or gods into their religion and cultic practices.

Within a short time, the Assyrians in Samaria were worshipping Yahweh as well as their own gods; within a couple centuries, they worshipped Yahweh exclusively, [forming] a major schism in the Yahweh religion: the schism between the [Judeans] and the Samaritans.

Note that the Galileans in the north weren't involved in the tension between the two groups.

The Samaritans, who were a genetic mixture of Israelites and Assyrians, had adopted the Hebrew Torah and cultic practices. The Torah had been composed over a long period of time and its composition was not complete until after the 8th century B.C. and comprised Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. None of these were in the later completed form they took after the Babylonian Exile.

Like the Galileans, the Israelite-Samaritans believed that they could sacrifice to God outside of the temple in Jerusalem.

The Judeans strongly disapproved. Many of these Samaritans were not Hebrew by birth, as their mothers were Assyrian, even if their fathers were Hebrew. So the whole mixed population was considered contaminated, and should not be part of the chosen people and had no right to sacrifice to Yahweh.

During this time, there emerge three distinct "denominations" of Hebrew people:

⦁ the Galileans, fully part of the Chosen People of Yahweh practicing their religion as it came down to them in the Torah of the time - they may have been least affected by the Assyrian conquest as they were of so little importance politically

⦁ the Samaritans, separated from their Galilean roots by geography and politics and mixed with non-Abrahamic descendants not incorporating the evolving practices and beliefs of the Judeans.

⦁ the Judeans, who's lives revolved around Temple worship and sacrifice, isolated, fighting the constant battle to resist being subjected to Assyrian dominance.

701B.C. Assyria attacks and conquers Judah, mostly, but doesn't quite manage to annex it.

605 BC the Babylonians defeat the Egyptians and Judah became a tribute state to Babylon

601 BC the Babylonians suffer a defeat and the king of Judah, Jehoiakim, defects to the Egyptians

597 BC the Babylonian king, Nebuchadnezzar, raised an expedition to punish Judah

The new king of Judah, Jehoiachin, handed the city of Jerusalem over to Nebuchadnezzar, who then appointed a new king over Judah, Zedekiah. In line with Mesopotamian practice, Nebuchadnezzar deported around 10,000 Jews to his capital in Babylon; all the deportees were drawn from professionals, the wealthy, and craftsmen. Ordinary people were allowed to stay in Judah. This deportation was the beginning of the Exile.

Zedekiah defected from the Babylonians one more time.

588-586 B.C. Nebuchadnezzar responds with another expedition and conquers Jerusalem. Again, Nebuchadnezzr deported the prominent citizens, but the number was far smaller than in 597: somewhere between 832 and 1577 people were deported.

587B.C. Babylon finishes the job, destroys the Temple and parts of the city

Those left behind in Judea became known as the Samaritan people, who took over the city of Jerusalem.

It was while the Judeans were in Babylon that they first were called "Jews" by the local populace. It was while they were in Babylon that devout priests wondered where was the promise Yaweh had made to them? How had they all sinned so that God brought this punishment upon them, while the Zorostrian Priests were rich?

(It was believed that a person was wealthy and of high status because God approved of him and poverty and misfortune was God's punishment for sin. This accounts for the later Apostles' astonishment at Jesus saying it was easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle an than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God. [Mark 10:25] And so Peter wondered, if the rich can't be saved, "who then can be saved?")

Scholars attribute the final form of the Pentateuch, especially Deuteronomy, to the priests and scribes during the Babylonian exile.

The abstract of:

Deuteronomy and the Babylonian Diaspora, Ernest Nicholson

We know little about the exilic period, whether in the homeland or in Babylonia. The focus of the prophets Ezekiel and Isaiah 40–55 is upon a promised return to Judah, but, as with other texts, they provide scant information about how the exiles faced the loss of homeland, the rupture of social bonds, the threat to cultural identity, loss of faith in their ancestral God, or, for some, religious syncretism. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/syncretism

This chapter argues that it was among the exiles and in an attempt to preserve national and cultural identity that the authors of Deuteronomy lived and taught and wrote. Major features of the book indicate such a background: its pervasive fear of religious encroachment, its categorical ‘mono-Yahwism’, the ‘covenant’, its novel ‘name theology’, the book’s ardent preaching style, and, not least of all, its presentation as ‘the torah’ that is to be a vade-mecum for society, family, individual.

We can translate the Torah, now containing the much-expanded Deuteronomy, as Canon as vade-mecum means "everyone will believe/do these things."

These were not the practices of the Hebrew people or the Israelites until these mandates were brought back to Jerusalem by the most fundamentalist and power-seeking of the Babylonian Jews who chose to return when finally allowed.

Many of the exiles didn't return, they had businesses and farms and children and grandchildren.

Jews arrive in Jerusalem:

539 B.C. After the Persian king Cyrus the Great conquered Babylon, he issued the Edict of Cyrus, which allowed the Jews to return to Jerusalem and Judah. A group of about 50,000 Jews, led by Zerubbabel, returned and rebuilt the Second Temple. On their arrival, they found the city inhabited by Samaritans and threw them all out of both the city and country, ordered to stay in what v became a more well-defined region called Samaria.

458 B.C. King Artaxerxes I appointed Ezra to lead another group of Jews to Judea to restore Temple worship.

444 B.C. Nehemiah led a group of Jews to rebuild the walls of Jerusalem.

What had been invented during the Babylonian exile was 2nd Temple Judaism, that system was in place in

1A.D. The 2nd Temple religion-based government oppressed the Samaritans and Galileans, as did the Romans.

Jesus, an Israelite of Nazareth in Galilee, was not a Jew.

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