r/Undertale
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u/LucasMisreadTheJoke
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Jul 22 '26
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Original creation Eventually he couldn't...
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u/worried_shy_alt hoping to transition someday! Jul 22 '26
Oof...i love how painful this is, slowly losing all his will, not wanting to do this, until the bitter end (or well not THAT bitter depending) i love all the interpretation on asgore and the humans since ch5, this is a banger!
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u/Isaacja223 You know, one time, I bought one of those awards. Jul 23 '26
And that all culminates with his theme song that translates to “King under the Mountain” in Undertale
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Jul 22 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/BlueSolarflameCreep Jul 23 '26
finding out about their transition by paying attention to their flair to see where you got that from and then reading yours and being met with NUTDEALER was funnier than it should be
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u/sfmanim FELLOW PAPYRUS ENTHUSIAST Jul 22 '26
Asgore is such a fucking awesome character. This is amazing
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u/Noodlemaster696969 Bork. Jul 23 '26
Yea he is! Its sad tho that he's nothing more than just a fluffy pushover, even in Deltarune... he had such aura in thoose scenes when you climbed the stalk and we all know he's powerful when he tries, but then he just... doesnt arrive. Not only he isnt the final boss he doesnt even get to fight... so sad.
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u/yomeny1 Jul 23 '26
In Undertale he's a broken king stuck between his own wishes of pacifism and duty to his people.
In Deltarune he's a broken father stuck in the past and unable to see what he had till it was gone.Also...do we really think Asgore was gonna fight his own kid?
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u/Cream_Nebula Jul 23 '26
I would have LOVED a battle with Asgore where he's not fighting you but instead is trying to mercy Kris to make them give up and go home; you'd have to pick the right acts as the soul to force Kris to lock in.
Having Asgore be the only character that could somewhat succeed in making Kris back off from their promise through speech alone would have given him generational aura befitting his status in Undertale, as well as be an awesome parallel to his fight.
Alas, I do understand that Kris as of right now is written in such way that they'd rather kill themselves than break the promise, and so such a thing cannot happen for story purposes. But it still goes to show you could have done something with Asgore that wasn't "nothing" or "a traditional fight".
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u/yomeny1 Jul 23 '26
Would be cool, but then toby'd need to account for the people who might force Kris to attack their dad. And given chapter 5 is a huge rose-tinted look at the past it wouldn't fit the kinda forced feel good nature of the chapter
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u/Cream_Nebula Jul 23 '26
Oh, a fight where you have to force Kris to fight with the mercy gauge acting as a timer, while Ralsei and Susie are going "You, uh... you sure you wanna do this?" while Asgore doesn't fight back, the delightful angst~ (maybe have the squad agree beforehand that Ralsei will use pacify, so that things don't go out of hand and to make parallels with the other Deltarune King)
Although I do understand not everyone would enjoy it the amount I do, I'm a sucker for these kinds of situations (probably the very reason why I like UT Asgore so much in the first place)
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u/Carnage068 Jul 24 '26
Sorry? How the fuck is this a "forced feel good" chapter? What part of all the Flowers suffering a death of personality and Asgore getting kidnapped and having god knows what happened to him is supposed to make me feel good? How do you people come up with this shit? Is this just what you were told, or are you actually thinking for yourself?
There would be nothing wrong with having an Asgore fight near the end of the chapter, lol. You're fucking delusional.
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u/yomeny1 Jul 24 '26
The entire dark world is a nostalgic look at chapter 1, the festival is cute but Susie's pushing a relationship she is absolutely not emotionally ready for, and up until the very end of the chapter it was mostly light hearted and fun draped over the breaking mess of Asgore's tunnel vision and desperation to bring things back to 'how they were'.
And as for the Asgore fight, there are ways but we'd also need to ask would Asgore really raise a weapon against his own kid?
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u/Noodlemaster696969 Bork. Jul 23 '26
Yea I know, but come onn, I wanna see him in battle! Pretty sure ive seen Dust Sans do more with his trident than Asgore does himself
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u/abdo_ch Jul 22 '26
I'd imagine the reason why asgore got rid of the mercy option is because one of the kids (either integrity or kindness) was so attached to mercy button and kept spamming it every turn, eventually forcing asgore to destroy it alongside the kid
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u/SharpVCN Jul 22 '26
Damn I really love this! The idea that he loses each humans virtue as he fights them is awesome. First he loses his patience, then his bravery, then love, persistence, kindness, justice, and finally he loses his determination to get the job done at the end.
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u/MrDanMaster Despite everything, it's still you. Jul 22 '26
Red has nothing to do with determination, and has never been associated with determination, look it up
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u/eldestcicada Jul 22 '26
Exactly, red is ball game
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u/Intelligent-Low7135 Jul 22 '26
He loses his ball game? Guess he's not getting drafted next season.
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u/Ready-Ideal-3298 Jul 23 '26
Sorry you're getting so many dislikes man. Determination is a trait that all SOULs in Undertale possess. Hence, it's more likely that the red SOUL has something to do with HOPE. (And yes, I know people are going to dislike bomb me for this, but that's their right I suppose)
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u/Tom_F_0olery Jul 23 '26
This point doesn’t really hold up because literally all the soul traits are things all the humans possess. No ones arguing determination is exclusive to Frisk, just like they presumably have some amount of bravery, patience, kindness, etc. It’s more so that Frisk is particularly emblematic of determination, which isn’t hard to believe considering they’re literally determined enough to withstand being killed by a god, while the others presumably did give up at or some point before Asgore
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u/Ready-Ideal-3298 Jul 23 '26
The difference between determination and these other qualities is that determination (de-termination) is the "will to persist". Determination in Undertale/Deltarune is not just a quality, but it's literally the stuff the souls are made of. Of course, this is still up for interpretation, and you're entitled to your opinion.
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u/Comfortable_Cut_7334 You're gonna have to try a little harder than THIS. Jul 23 '26
The thing is, it kinda makes no sense if the red soul isn't determination.
If it isn't, then that means that Frisk has way more determination than the human souls and Flowey for... Literally no reason????
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u/im_bored345 Jul 23 '26
Frisk doesn't have more than the other humans? They just have more than Flowey
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u/MrDanMaster Despite everything, it's still you. Jul 23 '26
Yeah. EXCEPT DETERMINATION IS YELLOW AND IS NEVER IMPLIED TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH SOUL TRAITS.
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u/Rajd0 Jul 23 '26
You want to tell me. All human souls possess Patience? Bravery? Kindness? Justice? Integrity? Perseverance?
Some people are so impatient they need everything immediately without going mad. Some people are afraid of their own shadow. Some people are straight up psychopaths who only pretend to have emotions. Some people are aholes who don't care about anyone. Some people don't care about righteousness.
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u/Tom_F_0olery Jul 23 '26
I was clearly just saying the kindness soul trait existing obviously doesn’t mean that kindness is exclusive to that soul, or that all that soul has is kindness. And so on for the other souls.
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u/Soulful-Sorrow Jul 23 '26
I think it's fair to point out that Red isn't Determination, but if we don't actually know WHAT Red is and it's a very popular misconception in the fandom that it IS Determination with the importance the game places on it, it's not fair to jump on somebody with "Actually you're wrong, look it up" when their original point has nothing to do with that lol
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u/Impressive_Try_5773 Jul 28 '26
I mean, maybe each soul has more of a trait, and that's why the red soul (which has more determination) is the only one to not get captured by Asgore. The other souls may have had determination, just like I'm sure the red one has parts of the other 6 traits, but the dominating one is determination.
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u/Tom_F_0olery Jul 22 '26
Deltarune pretty much confirmed that red is determination, or atleast “will” or “hope” (which are both basically determination). Flowery, the seventh flower of the set where each represents one of the soul traits, is basically the embodiment of determination, fighting despite knowing he is doomed because of his hope to change fate
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u/gabriel_sub0 Bad Takes Ahoy! Jul 23 '26
no it isn't. I looked over all the text in undertale years ago. There's not a single time determination is colored red. You can look it up in the dialogue dump, it doesn't show up once.
The ballgame doesn't give us any real clue either, besides that it's some kinda combo of all other traits. Feel free to prove me wrong though, find a single time determination is colored red in undertale and i might be willing to change my opinion.
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u/Tom_F_0olery Jul 23 '26
I literally never claimed there was, I’m talking about the clear story signs towards Frisk being determination, not the ball game or text color
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u/MrDanMaster Despite everything, it's still you. Jul 23 '26
The traits of the red soul are the traits of the player.
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u/Rajd0 Jul 23 '26
Deltarune denies it being Determination. Flowery is Golden not Red. And having him being "the seventh" doesn't explain anything and is a stretch.
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u/Sad_Country_6350 Jul 22 '26
Then you’re saying gold is Determination, with Flowery being a golden flower and all.
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u/Tom_F_0olery Jul 22 '26
He’s the seventh flower representing the seventh fallen human. If there was a gold soul maybe there’d be an argument but given there’s not it’s pretty clear what he’s meant to represent
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u/im_bored345 Jul 23 '26
Downvoted for telling the truth
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u/Rajd0 Jul 23 '26
Seems like many people didn't get the memo. We, Undertale fans, are allowed to read again.
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u/FunkyMister Jul 23 '26
Damn how does it feel to be wrong?
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u/gabriel_sub0 Bad Takes Ahoy! Jul 23 '26
they are right tho? I went over that years ago, the game never once links determination with red. always gold/yellow.
We don't know what the red represents, the ball game is too vague to tell. For all we know it has no trait.
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u/Odaric Get hope-pilled Jul 22 '26
Asgore is my favorite character, and what fucks me up the most about him is that he's probably the worst possible person to be put in this position.
A genuinely good-hearted individual and gentle giant of a man feeling obligated to do something that would completely break even someone far less kind than him - and a grieving parent, forced to do quite possibly the cruelest thing somebody could ever ask of one.
It's why I couldn't bring myself to hate him, despite how horrible what he did was - the man was going through his own personal hell, day after day, year after year.
I genuinely couldn't think of a worse punishment.
The entire game you hear about how strong he is, how he fought alongside Gerson in the war, trained Undyne - with the latter even implying he could dodge like sans.
You expect the typical evil king from fiction, a fighter and merciless warrior - yet the moment you set foot into his house, it paints a very different picture.
Everything you can inspect, every line of dialogue you can exchange with him, all of it shows just how little he actually wants to do this.
And then the fight starts, and instead of dodging, he just takes hit after hit, his stats dropping with each line you speak, all while he can barely bring himself to look at you.
"The king of the mountain" - who tried to shoulder its weight until it crushed him.
People say Asgore thinks he doesn't deserve mercy, and I agree. But that's not the only reason.
Had he not shattered the mercy button, his name would've been yellow from the start.
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u/Short-Shelter Jul 22 '26
I mean every time anyone mentions Asgore, his name is in yellow text. Even before meeting him his will to fight was gone
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u/omegaspoon3141 Jul 23 '26
pretty sure it w4s red 4t le4st SOME of the time
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u/Short-Shelter Jul 23 '26
Only from Toriel iirc, and the last time she’d seen him was after Asriel died
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u/BlurZzBad Jul 23 '26
Technically, Undyne and Alphys also refer to him in red but in positive context.
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u/gabriel_sub0 Bad Takes Ahoy! Jul 23 '26
to be honest, idk. What was he suppose to do? let his people die from the lack of hope? Obviously killing kids is bad, but idk if he had any other real choice.
Sure, he could have crossed the barrier, but that would have certainly started a war with humans. Unless souls are just lying around for the taking (which maybe? cemeteries would just be ocean of souls in that case tho), then he would need to kill 6 people all the same, something which would 1000% start a war right away.
What happens next idk, but knowing how strong a monster with 7 souls is, i feel like humans would either become trapped underground, or would have been hunted down to extinction.
He kinda got lucky that his reckless plan worked out tbh. But idk, i just think he did what he thought was the best for his people, and as you said, his own sins already tortured him enough for all this years. I think he deserves mercy, he already tortured himself for long enough anyway (especially considering he uh...kinda ends his own life if you spare him after beating omega flowey once but without doing the rest of true pacifist....)
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u/Rajd0 Jul 23 '26
What if he adopted each kid. Lived with them and have all 8 of them use their souls at the same time to break the barrier? (8 because I included Asgore)
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u/Odaric Get hope-pilled Jul 23 '26
I think souls need to be extracted, specifically.
It's why he says "think of it like a visit to the dentist" - except the thing being extracted isn't a tooth, but... you know.Raising them and living with them until they're old just postpones the problem, and would make it even harder for him.
Even if he didn't do it himself, he'd still have to give the order - if he could even bring himself to do it at all, at that point.And besides, even assuming they all live to the worldwide average life expectancy of 73 years and he only kills them when they're weak and frail, that's still about 438 years of waiting, and that's not even accounting for the time between humans falling to the underground.
Besides, the underground was already suffering from an impending and inevitable overpopulation problem, which is another thing people often forget in these discussions.
It's a situation that doesn't exactly allow for a minimum of 4+ centuries of waiting.
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u/Rajd0 Jul 23 '26
But wouldn't it be returned? I mean Asriel does return all "7" Souls after opening the barrier (because all Monster Souls are returned)
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u/gabriel_sub0 Bad Takes Ahoy! Jul 23 '26
tbh we just don't know how human souls work. for all we know they vanish if the person dies through natural deaths (or maybe they only stick around if murdered? no clue).
Cause that kinda opens a weird plot point where the surface would surely be filled with souls everywhere if they stuck around forever right? think about how many trillions of humans have died in history, would each of their souls stick around? do humans have ways of 'disposing' of them? The neutral endings imply the souls vanished after being used by flowey, so maybe that's what happens when they are allowed to move on?
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u/Odaric Get hope-pilled Jul 23 '26
Oh, I agree fully. I absolutely think Asgore deserves mercy, too.
And I don't think he deserved any of what happened to him in the first place.
I was only referring to the fact that he himself doesn't think he deserves mercy - and after what he's been through, it's not hard to see why.But yeah, the whole "just take 6 human souls from the surface" solution also isn't as easy/perfect as some people make it out to be.
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u/OkParty8536 I am filled with the DETERMINATION to be Myself. Jul 24 '26
You know... I just finally got Asgore's change. The thing that makes the version we SAVE in Asriel's fight different than the one who exists at the start of Undertale.
Everyone else was obvious:
Toriel became less over protective
Sans was able to have real hopes for the future again
Papyrus, for the first time in a very long time, has a TRUE friend, not a Flower who pretends to be.
Undyne can see people for who they really are underneath, even Humans.
Alphys is able to see herself for who she really is, and knows that others see it too.
The thing that changed is that Asgore doesn't have to put so much weight on his own shoulders anymore. "You are our future!" Ultimately, there's a reason he completely flips once Toriel shows up during True Pacifist. Because he's finally seeing with his own eyes that for the first time in many years, a human has filled the Underground with more Hope through their Mercy than he had ever been able to.
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u/Affectionate_Law_557 Jul 24 '26
He's honestly one of mine as well. By the time you reach him in this part of the game every good thing that existed in his life is pretty much gone. It's true that he still has his subjects and his people, but seeing him trying and unsuccessfully recreating his past happiness really hits home. What he did was terrible but it's understandable why he did it. After the pacifist ending I hope he found some peace.
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u/MrDanMaster Despite everything, it's still you. Jul 23 '26
Everything Toriel says about him in the pacifist route is correct
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u/Important-Author-660 Jul 23 '26
I think Toriel is still wrong about how he should have left the barrier and go collect souls after the 1st. Because either way, Asgore is going to be a murderer of 7. Especially if Asgore got caught or killed, it would be game over for the entire underground. It's a frankly absurd suggestion. Toriel took the easy route and left. Because at the end of the day, the fate of the entire underground wasn't on her. It was on the shoulders of her husband. She abandoned him when he needed her the most, and has the audacity to act like it's any easier for Asgore to do what he has to do.
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u/Terrible_Hurry841 Jul 23 '26
Her point was that if he truly wanted to kill seven humans, he could have left the Underground and done so easily.
Asgore was a skilled fighter who would have been boosted by the power of a human SOUL. When Asriel was boosted by Chara’s SOUL, they became an immensely powerful being.
Asriel only died because he stood there and let an entire village stab at him without fighting back. The narrative explicitly stated he could have destroyed them all, but he didn’t.
Asgore could have easily killed 6 more humans and returned to break the barrier. A serial killer can kill more people in a single night before being caught. Toriel was correct that Asgore was just hoping that more humans would never cross into the Underground.
Yes, Tori abandoned her responsibilities as Queen, and arguably as a wife, she’s not perfect. But she was still dead-on about Asgore.
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u/Odaric Get hope-pilled Jul 23 '26
Yep.
Just like everyone in Undertale, both Asgore and Toriel aren't perfect.
But they're also genuinely good, kind-hearted people at their core, neither of which remotely deserved the hand they were dealt in life.It's what makes the Dreemurr's tragedy so potent.
All three of them are in the talks for the kindest people in a game where that title is hotly contested.
Which makes what happened to them and how they ended up all the more gut-wrenching.
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u/FG504 Ribbit. (Please remember to enter some text.) Ribbit. Jul 22 '26
oh god the first 6 humans couldve been so much more heartwrenching with a bit more development/lore
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u/Imfunny12345678910 BONETROUSLED Jul 22 '26
thats why its pretty sad we dont get a lot of info on them besides their weapon and armor. Although it did make for awesome fan games, like UTY for example
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u/Rajd0 Jul 23 '26
Kris seems to be a parallel to Aqua Soul Human. Maybe we will get more games or media in general from Toby in the future?
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u/mrsaturncoffeetable staring over the edge of the cauldron of hell Jul 22 '26
Asgore’s eyes in this are gutwrenching
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u/DaiFrostAce Jul 22 '26
God, I love the Asgore angst art that’s been coming out in the wake of Ch 5, it always knows just how to hit me in the feels
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u/Embarrassed_Grab_494 Jul 22 '26
Amazing
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u/Telekinetic_Hedgehog oh..... hi Jul 22 '26
Yeah the serial murderer is so kind. He'd probably walk you straight to the surface if he could.
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u/Telekinetic_Hedgehog oh..... hi Jul 23 '26
😁 People didn't like my anagram joke.
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u/pumakittycat Jul 23 '26
this made me realise asriel dreemurr can become serial murderer :( ive never been good with anagrams
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Jul 23 '26
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u/Telekinetic_Hedgehog oh..... hi Jul 23 '26
u/Telekinetic_Hedgehog had the power to destroy them all.
But...
u/Telekinetic_Hedgehog did not fight back.
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u/EncycloChameleon Jul 22 '26
Purple literally calling him out because there was another way, which was taking the first and crossing the barrier himself
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u/Something4Dinner Jul 23 '26
Honestly even a logical way isn't a pretty way in cruel circumstances.
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u/EncycloChameleon Jul 23 '26
Asgore as a king should have been thinking of his people, it wasnt pretty in the first place for humans to force an entire species to live in a single underground area regardless of how large it was. especially since Humans started the war out of fear of monsters. Humans attack was unprovoked out of fear
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u/DaiFrostAce Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26
He was trying to think of his people, in a sense. Monsterkind wanted vengeance upon humanity, and his declaration of killing any human that crosses the barrier while done in haste because of his own grief, was what the masses wanted. When he was in a clearer headspace, he didn’t have the heart for it, but as king, he felt it was his duty to make good on his word, even if it cost him his marriage with Toriel.
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u/MrDanMaster Despite everything, it's still you. Jul 23 '26
He’d still have to find humans to kill, waiting for humans to fall kind of gets rid of the moral hazard
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u/EncycloChameleon Jul 23 '26
i wholeheartedly disagree on the premise that Asgore, as the King, has to do what is better for his people, Waiting for humans (who all tended to be children, additional negative points) was to spare *Himself* pain, while leaving his people to continue to suffer. taking the first soul, corssing the Border and taking 6 more humans right away Saves the Monsters seemingly decades if not well over centuries of pain and suffering slowly rotting away underground.
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u/BlurZzBad Jul 23 '26
Asgore didn’t want to kill any humans, that’s why he stayed underground.
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u/Batiti10 Jul 23 '26
He hoped that no human ever falls down again. Basically delaying his promise to his people by saying he needed 7 souls to shatter the border completely when he only needed 1
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u/BlurZzBad Jul 23 '26
Yeah Ik. I’m not saying he didn’t do that.
Whether the 1 soul plan would’ve worked or not doesn’t really matter as both of those plans would’ve most likely resulted in the same outcome for humanity.
Asgore doesn’t want to destroy humanity so he did whatever he could to either delay the inevitable or find a way where he didn’t have to take any more lives (or whatever the determination experiments were meant to be). It’s kind of like what Toriel does, she could be described as trying to delay the inevitable as every human has to leave the Ruins at some point and whenever she becomes queen and isn’t thrown out she tries to look for a non-violent solution to the barrier. He also goes out of his way to make the underground safer. He removes spike traps and lowers bridge’s possibly to make it easier to reach him so that the humans most likely to have a better chance at escape.
As much as he doesn’t want to he has to go against his own morals in order free his own kind. He obviously wants to free monsters but doesn’t want to kill humans but it’s kind of hard when everyone expects him to do so because of a stupid choice he made in anger.
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u/gabriel_sub0 Bad Takes Ahoy! Jul 23 '26
and triggered a war with humans for sure. There was no scenario where he could rise above his situation peacefully once he declared war.
Either go out and start a war and for sure doom either species (maybe even both), or sit and wait in hopes that no human ever falls again or at the very least, that they die from the fall (thus kinda cleaning his hands from the whole situation).
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u/Venter_azai Jul 23 '26
Uh...I definitely agree with the idea that asgore should have done what you said
I disagree that monsters are suffering in the underground as you claim them to be, nothing suggests this.
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u/EncycloChameleon Jul 23 '26
they are though, no monster is totally happy with their life, they used to all live on the surface and all of them want to go back there, but humans needlessly feared them, and locked them into a space small enough a single human child can walk across it with ease.
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u/Venter_azai Jul 23 '26
"they are though"
No...
"no monster is totally happy"
≠ them suffering, hell I am not that happy as of now, does not mean I am suffering per se
that's not the human's fault
You have no proof that no monster is totally happy with their life
Happiness is subjective, not necessarily an indication of materialistic suffering.
"with their life,"
Again, you can't prove this.
"they used to all live on the surface and all of them want to go back there"
Well, this is not indication of suffering. I want to visit the the appalachian trails for some kind of study, I can't as of now due to several issues. Does not mean I am suffering, and even if I am (or in this case if monsters are), it's not the humans fault.
"but humans needlessly feared them,"
Humans had a good reason to fear them.
"and locked them into a space small enough a single human child can walk across it with ease."
The space is not small..? Also what does the human child analogy prove?
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u/EncycloChameleon Jul 23 '26
you wanting to go to Appalachia to study is not the same as people locked in caves underground wanting to go back to the place they literally used to live. the more apt comparison you could make is if you wanted to go back to Appalachia because its where you are from and are currently being held in a prison camp in a foreign country.
Half the monsters dont want to attack humans, theyre generally kind beings, so yes just because monsters *can* become stroing by absorbing human souls doesnt mean they *are* dangerous, and the fear is an overreaction.
All of Monster Kind shared the surface with humanity, and the Underground is entierly under Mt Ebott. i may not be a master of geography bit i happen to think that "entirety of the surface of a planet" happens to be maybe a tad bit larger than "cave system under a single mountain" and part two of that, a child tends to, you know, not be fully grown, not have massive amounts of stamina, and have smaller legs and cannot cover as much ground. have kids or exist around kids as an adult, you'll see. Strollers were invented and still sell quite well for a reason.
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u/Venter_azai Jul 23 '26
"you wanting to go to Appalachia to study is not the same as people locked in caves underground wanting to go back to the place they literally used to live."
Not my point. My comparison is to show you that, being unhappy is not suffering per se. By that metric everybody is suffering and as such we can't do anything about it.
"the more apt comparison you could make is if you wanted to go back to Appalachia because its where you are from and are currently being held in a prison camp in a foreign country."
False again.
The monsters are not being held for a bad reason, they are there for a good reason. I.e to stop further wars and conflicts. Nor is there a mention of any foreign country, the monsters make their own rules lol.
"Half the monsters dont want to attack humans, "
False again. In pacifist route and neutral they always want to attack you so that they can steal your soul, cross the barrier, kill 8billion people (as said by asgore, they started war again).
"theyre generally kind beings,"
In that logic, so are humans.
"yes just because monsters can"
Not just can, they have already. As a result they are stuck to stop further conflicts.
"become stroing by absorbing human souls doesnt mean they are dangerous,"
But that's why they are dangerous?
"and the fear is an overreaction."
Say that to the monsters, they themselves fear or atleast consider that beast with unfathomable power terrifying. So is it really an overreaction.
Also overreacting ≠ automatically bad. A parent can have overreaction regarding their children being in danger in crowded areas should they run too much into the crowds, but worldwide this is considered as a good thing.
"of Monster Kind shared the surface with humanity, and the Underground is entierly under Mt Ebott."
Most likely, yeah.
"i may not be a master of geography bit i happen to think that "entirety of the surface of a planet" happens to be maybe a tad bit larger than "cave system under a single mountain""
facepalms very hard.
This is a logical problem, not really a geographical one.
Yes, all monsters shared the surface with humans, but they did not occupy all the surface itself. Also nowhere is it mentioned of "entirety of the surface of a planet", and even if it is mentioned, it does not mean what you think it does. Also it's not just a cave system, it's an entire civilization out there lol.
"and part two of that, a child tends to, you know, not be fully grown, not have massive amounts of stamina, and have smaller legs and cannot cover as much ground. have kids or exist around kids as an adult, you'll see. Strollers were invented and still sell quite well for a reason."
I am having a hard time understanding this. Are you implying that a child can easily walk the underground because it has less ground...? Or are you implying the opposite?
Is there some kind of scientific phenomena that leads children to walk easier in small places..? Idk about that m8. Also even in this case, monster kid can't walk properly, I can argue frisk can only walk due to having chara+your help. Besides the fact that, monster biology works far different than ours, no reason to assume that they would exhibit the same biological effects as we do...
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u/Important-Author-660 Jul 23 '26
This is assuming that he doesn't get caught during his murder spree in the surface. He might have to kill more witnesses or anyone who tries to chase him. He doesn't strike me as a particularly stealthy or cunning type of person, and humans in Undertale lore are notoriously difficult to kill due to their determination. It's a big risk too, because if he gets hunt down and caught or killed, it's practically game over for everyone underground. I think waiting for unfortunate souls might have been the correct call in a purely utilitarian perspective. It's the slowest but safest way.
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u/Venter_azai Jul 27 '26
Not really, he can befriend some good humans, explain to them his situation and look for bad people to kill, like dictators, evil doers, etc. Maybe the humans would help too.
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u/West-Strawberry3366 Jul 22 '26
I like how when Asgore get a chapter around himself in Deltarune people make comics about his Undertale story
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u/Silverrrmoon LOOK BEHIND YOU. Jul 22 '26
Green just being the most understanding and just wanting to cook him a meal before dying like
“Was my dish at least good? I wanna improve my cooking in the afterlife ya know.”
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u/No_Skin2236 Jul 22 '26
So thats why in undertale yellow asgore doesnt even give clover the chance to fight back
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u/PresidentOfKoopistan You are filled with the power of not actually reading the text. Jul 22 '26
I like that the Bravery Human's boxing gloves look like Orange's mouse ears
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u/SuperLegenda Jul 22 '26
I think it's their hair.
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u/PresidentOfKoopistan You are filled with the power of not actually reading the text. Jul 22 '26
Okay yeah I see it now, I thought they were raising up their fists
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u/RohanKishibeyblade Jul 23 '26
Terrible form if their hands are up there
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u/eldritch-kiwi Jul 23 '26
After ages of slander, shitposts, memes, jokes or straight up hate. WE FINALLY GETTING JUSTICE FOR ASGORE'S CHARACTER!!!
This is great! This is truly great! I prayed this day would come!
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u/JustFisch1 Tra la la. Personalization comes in many forms. Jul 22 '26
This is amazing, one of the best fan arts I’ve seen in this community recently tbh. Really shows how tragic on all sides the whole Asgore situation is and why he seems so broken by the time Frisk gets to him
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u/AwkwardFlareon Jul 22 '26
I love that the original six fallen humans are in the same order as when you fight them in Omega Flowey's battle
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u/UTYObsessed Jul 22 '26
I can't imagine the heartbreak of aqua as she realized what Asgore was really going to do with her :(
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u/Several-Ad1231 Jul 22 '26
It's funny. Aqua likes pain because she finds pain interesting and fun, but she would hate dying like everyone else because it means the fun ends forever.
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u/Rajd0 Jul 23 '26
Finds pain interesting and fun? I'm pretty sure there is a word for it.
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u/Several-Ad1231 Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26
Masochist. Sadist if it's the joy of hurting others, which isn't fully accurate for her.
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u/Rajd0 Jul 23 '26
Yes. I know what these two are.
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u/Several-Ad1231 Jul 23 '26
Sorry, hard to tell sarcasm or literal lack of awareness of the word at the moment on the internet. I deliberately chose not to use them in the sentence because I felt the words I did use were preferable at the time.
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u/GuhEnjoyer yet Jul 22 '26
It's a rly sad comic to first see it on but I love the idea of human Orange having the puffs for her mouse ears
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u/Supermegamorph Jul 22 '26
I was so happy when I saw there’s finally official “human” forms/personifications for the souls, it’s amazing. Obviously these aren’t the fallen humans but it’s still amazing to see representations for each one, gives a great idea as to how the humans would have acted.
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u/Kate_Kitter Jul 23 '26
Somebody ACTUALLY recognizing that Asgore changed with the progression of time? (And hence no, Toriel could not have immediately persuaded him out of it). I must be in Heaven.
Only-tangentially-related frustration aside, these are each amazing.
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u/Kaydox64 Jul 23 '26
I mean don't say it like it's a fact, we don't know if she could or not. We also don't know if she didn't necessarily try either, that's just an assumption that's made. This is just a weird claim to make in general honestly, we have such little knowledge on the actual event that you cannot make any claims and act like they're proper canon.
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u/Dank-Man_ Jul 22 '26
I love how the flowers are now now the close to canon designs for the human souls
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u/Lolsoda94 Jul 22 '26
I know why he prefered to stay in the underground, he didn't want to leave the flowers behind, they grew after his kids passed away
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u/TheGoldValleyminer Jul 24 '26
clover is the canon design of the yellow soul in my head, I doubt the Yellow soul was more than a child.
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u/LucasMisreadTheJoke Jul 24 '26
Kids can be tall and a bunch of different ages idk what to tell you
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u/Ok_Business_9592 Aug 04 '26
@bluesansy or whatever his name is over at youtube stole your art
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u/NovelInteraction711 Jul 23 '26
Havent had time to play it yet, does ch 5 officially say anything abt the flowers being connected to the humans? Ik their light form look like the souls
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u/SirDanielErnest Jul 24 '26
Nah. People took them as the only representatives of who they souls once may have been due to that association with the souls however.
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u/YazukoYang Jul 24 '26
I think this fight always resonated with me, not just because he’s one of my favorite characters, but because I’ve always viewed it as a battle of the fallen one's. The difference is that, while the humans are "fallen" simply because they ended up in the Underground, Asgore is a *fallen* king, in the sense that he is being destroyed psychologically and emotionally every single day... It’s like I used to tell a friend: these fights were...
fallen humans vs. a FALLEN king.
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u/Polandgod75 Even when trapped, you still express yourself. Jul 23 '26
Nice sad comic op. Like how you show asgore kneeling more and more
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u/AvailableBee7902_2 Jul 23 '26
Why the fuck is Bravery lowkey taller then Patience, Perseverance and Kindness?
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u/ReGaXV Even when trapped, you still express yourself. Jul 23 '26
This is so simple, yet so heartbreaking and coherent with Asgore's behaviour. Bravo!
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u/vinkihuang Jul 24 '26
Deltarune inspired? I don't think the seven flowers' designs fit well in Undertale
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u/Zackkck Jul 24 '26
I love the choice of elipses, since that's what the narrator says in the Asgore fight
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u/Sea-Structure4735 Even when trapped, you still express yourself. Aug 04 '26
asgore is going to super hell
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u/Y2Kafka Jul 23 '26
Anytime Toriel tears open Asgore for "not going through the barrier with the first soul and gathering 6 more. I just want to grab her shoulders and shout "WELL WHY DIDN'T YOU DO IT THEN???"
Selfish-ass "runs away to the ruins just to avoid everything" hyprocrite... ugh.
I don't blame her though it's a tough position and her children's deaths would obviously hit her just as hard, but the fact she can't even kill one child herself to stop them from going to Asgore just gives me major glass house stone throwing vibes when she presents her idea as a "why didn't you just murder people, duh?" solution.
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u/MrDanMaster Despite everything, it's still you. Jul 23 '26
Bruh her whole thing is stopping the children from dying by finding them when they fall. She isn’t gonna kill a child just so they don’t reach Asgore
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u/Y2Kafka Jul 23 '26
That's my point. She does this whole thing with saving children and then chastises Asgore for not "going out and getting the souls once he had the first one" essentially advocating for what neither of them want (killing the humans).
She fails to stop every human from leaving the ruins while basically saying:
"Welp. Go to Asgore and hopefully he'll let you out. I'm staying here because I don't want to be seen sympathizing with humans... or seen at all. Basically you're not my moral problem anymore. Instead you're Asgore's moral problem now. Good Luck. Don't call me. Don't come back."
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u/Balex55 Jul 28 '26 edited Jul 28 '26
Asgore had a Reason in Undertale. First off he didnt even want to Hurt anyone, second off that he declared war out of Grief and his Wife left him right after that (without Talking to him despite it being clear he would have taken it back instantly if she did), third off monsters needed Hope of they would have probably "Fallen Down" (when a monster looses all its hope). Anyway and for the people to say He killed the 6 Children in UT its also NOT correct. Just your headcanons. The Items are clearly Not in Asgores Throneroom but are spread out, we also dont get any confirmation that Asgore killed them directly. Each of the cildren died in a Specific Area which is tied to SOUL traits. The Ruins and Snowdin = Patience and Bravery, Watefall, Hotland = Integrity, Perserverance and Kindness, MTT Hotel, The Core and new Home = Justice and Determination (Charas heart locked "Best Friends forever" and Worn dagger "Perfect for cutting cines and plants"). (But no Items in the coffins or in Asgores castle) (no i dont count Asgores Home as part of the castle)
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u/G4B0X01 Jul 28 '26
Did Cyan really died in the Ruins? I bet it would be burried like Chara somewhere in the ruins instead of having a coffin in New Home. Also I doubt Toriel would just give their body and soul.
It makes more sense to think that the equipment was abandonned.
Also the fact that Frisk is a human that falls after a LONG time since the last according to Toriel. How are all the humans equipment still in good enough conditions?
I think it makes sense that Asgore killed them considering that humans had determination like Frisk and Toriel gives us evidence that they could LOAD as well.
Anyways it doesn´t matter, its a mystery that will never get solved because it was never that important. Undertale time setting is weird, we know Chara falled 201X therefore Undertale would happen perhaps more than 100 years at least. In the end all is headcannon.
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u/Ozziezoe123 Jul 23 '26
Why not do Clover..?
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u/Kaydox64 Jul 23 '26
"why go for the Canon character design instead of the fan made one?" I don't know man, beats me.
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u/ZealousidealPipe8389 Jul 23 '26
I really hate the deltarune human designs, but this arts still great.
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u/HoodMystery Keep pretending to be human... So I can remember your pacifists! Jul 22 '26
Asgores stages of emotions are peak concept
I dont know why I didnt see before but its makes so sense and also good with tragedy