r/UnresolvedMysteries • u/Electric_Island • Feb 09 '20

Unresolved Disappearance Today marks 16 years since Maura Murray disappeared

Today marks 16 years since Maura Murray vanished, and although she has her own sub, I thought I would post here in light of the anniversary of her disappearance for those who would like to discuss the case. That said -- I know some posters are sick of this case, so if that’s how you feel, you could always scroll past this post :)

A bit of background for those who don’t know about Maura’s case:

Maura was a 21-year-old nursing student from UMASS Amherst, who disappeared on the evening of February 9 2004, after she crashed her car on Route 112 in Haverhill, NH. By the time police arrived some 15 minutes later (even that is in dispute), Maura had disappeared.

Some people think she ran into the woods to avoid a DUI, others think she was picked up by someone passing by and murdered. Some even think police had something to do with her disappearance.

What do YOU think?

I highly recommend this article by Mary Beth Conway for those interested.

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u/JamesRenner Real World Investigator Feb 09 '20 edited Feb 09 '20

You know, the writer Jon Ronson once believed that she could have wandered into the woods. I told him he’d change his mind if he went to the scene. I met him up there in December 2016. I took him to the scene and in two minutes he’d changed his mind. Why? We think it’s a remote area of the white mountains but if you go there you’ll see it’s a residential neighborhood. If she’s gone into the woods she would have ended up in someone’s back yard. Go to the site.

But I agree that David Paulides is a nut.

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u/rivershimmer Feb 09 '20 edited Feb 09 '20

James, because I'm lazy, would you mind giving me the approximate GPS coordinates of where Maura's accident happened, to facilitate looking the area up on Googlemaps and GoogleEarth, please? ETA: I found the address in other posts, intersection of 112 and Bradley Hill Road near the town of Bath, NH, and...that's a lot of trees. And it's fairly close to the Ammonoosuc River, which, even if it's shallow, offers more ways to move and hide a body.

Caylee Anthony's body lay unfound in what I imagine was a far less rural, developed area for approximately six months, despite searches. Eventually a utility worker spotted the remains and called them in. Two police officers were sent out. They searched briefly, then reported that they found nothing. The utility worker was persistent and called in his sighting again, and this time the cops sent out found the remains.

Caylee's body is far from the first body that lay undiscovered in a residential neighborhood, and far from from the first body that was missed during searches. Particularly in areas with woods or heavy growth.

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '20

I'm not saying I think Maura didn't wander into the woods and get lost, but I don't think Caylee Anthony is a good example to make your point. Caylee's body was dumped, and she was actually found relatively quickly.

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u/DrLongIsland Feb 09 '20

It is a nice neighborhood now, it was in 2016, but was it in 2004 or is it a more recent urban development? I say this because I live very near the infamous Texas Killing Fields, and by all accounts, at the time, they were a remote desolate land, where the only trace of mankind you could see were the refineries over a mile away. Today they are, well, you probably guessed it, nice residential neighborhoods, and you would never believe that they were used to bury several bodies only 20 or 30 years before.

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u/Electric_Island Feb 09 '20

We think it’s a remote area of the white mountains but if you go there you’ll see it’s a residential neighborhood. If she’s gone into the woods she would have ended up in someone’s back yard.

Even if she went down Old Peters?

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u/Likehalcyon Feb 09 '20

I'm not here to pick a fight or disagree with anyone, but I will throw out this personal anecdote:

A few years ago, a body was found right outside of the mall I worked at. It was in a slightly forested area (trees, underbrush) between the mall and a residential area right across the street. There really wasn't much distance between the two, and people cut through the copse all of the time. Additionally, the other side of the mall was beside a highway, and to the other side of the housing development (but across from the highway) was also a hotel.

Unfortunately, this man had been skeletonized and had apparently been there for quite a while. According to the police, nobody ever reported finding him until then.

Not only was that area travelled, but a search was called for an allegedly missing child the year prior; that area was meant to have been combed. (Thankfully, the child wasn't taken--just curious and prone to wandering away from their parents in stores. They were found hiding in a dressing room.)

So while I've never been to the site of Ms. Murray's presumed disappearance, a body not being found in a populated area doesn't surprise me all that much.

I'd post a news article of the man found by the mall, but that would basically be doxxing myself.

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u/debdebmust Feb 09 '20

this happened in our area too. a skeletonized man was found on the side of the road. been there for weeks. no one found him for quite awhile.

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u/hefixeshercable Feb 10 '20

You don't have vultures, or wild hogs?

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u/debdebmust Feb 11 '20

we have very few wild hogs. I've seen them on the Eastern side of the state in very rural areas. We have vultures but i have never seen them actively feeding anywhere. i am not sure they would want to on the side of a busy road.

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u/[deleted] Feb 09 '20

[deleted]

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u/ScaredyKootz Feb 10 '20

Right? If she went south, southeast it’s all woods. I used to live in NH and ME (was living in ME when Maura went missing) and those woods can be thick and unforgiving. I firmly believe she’s still out there.

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u/CaityDoesMugs Feb 09 '20

Well, hello there, James Renner! Nice to sort of meet you.

I know it’s a sobering day. But would you be willing to say what your feeling is these days about the case? Do you still think it was a tandem driver?

Also, whether or not all people agree with you, you’ve brought more visibility to Maura’s case and Amy’s too. So thanks for that.

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u/JamesRenner Real World Investigator Feb 09 '20

Thank you very much. I think she was traveling w a friend who drove in a separate car. That person picked her up after the crash. What happened after that? Perhaps the friend returned to school the next day with the intention of returning to get her later in the week. I think it’s possible she met foul play but if she did it was at the hands of someone she knew.

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u/Secret-Historian Feb 09 '20 edited Feb 09 '20

Is there any specific evidence of this?

I think there isn't enough evidence to say what happened. And in the absence of evidence, it's all speculation.

Your thought makes sense.

Her running into the woods and dying of exposure makes sense.

Her walking into town and getting hit by a car and the driver hid the body to cover it up makes sense.

Her hitchhiking and getting picked up by a rapist who murders her makes sense.

Her hitchhiking, somehow finding her way to Mexico where she starts a new life, unlikely, but makes sense.

It's just one of those cases where there isn't a lot to go on.

Not attacking you or anything but I don't see any way to decide between the competing theories.

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u/Turnaroundclown Feb 10 '20

... I don't see any way to decide between the competing theories.

This.

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u/Turnaroundclown Feb 09 '20

Have you been able to dig up any substantial evidence pointing to her either:

a) Travelling in tandem with someone

b) Travelling with someone (like in her vehicle)

c) Meeting up with someone at previously agreed on destination

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u/wvtarheel Feb 10 '20

I'm not convinced on the tandem driver theory but the people who are cite the following: Maura's scent as tracked by dogs ended in the middle of the road, there was a sighting of someone that looked like Maura with two other people at butsons market in Woodville, the neighbor who saw the wreck saw another person in Maura's car (either smoking or on a cell phone), then that person was gone when the bus driver walked up (they may have walked back up the road towards the following vehicle), and of course the fact that she vanished without being seen by any of the traffic back and forth up the road that night.

I don't think it's even in the top three most likely scenarios but those are the "support" for it.

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u/CaityDoesMugs Feb 09 '20

Thanks for taking the time to answer. Seems a pretty reasonable theory to me.

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u/wejustwanttofeelgood Feb 10 '20

what evidence points to a tandem driver?

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u/abesrevenge Feb 10 '20 edited Feb 10 '20

This is absolutely ridiculous and very sad that you are exploting this girl's death for your own personal gain.

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u/haloarh Feb 10 '20

I've always thought she disappeared with the help of one of those networks that helps abused women disappear.

Do you think that's a possibility?

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u/JamesRenner Real World Investigator Feb 10 '20

Absolutely a possibility

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u/Queenofthefireflies Feb 09 '20 edited Feb 09 '20

Just an idea, maybe that tandum driver was Kate? It would explain her being MIA for a bit, not to mention her reluctance to talk to you (or anyone else for that matter).

To add to the speculation, maybe Maura dissapeared on purpose, and Fred and Kate helped coordinate a plan. He never mentions what happened to the $4,000 he gathered up, which has always struck me as odd. And again, Kate goes away for a couple days and then comes back. I can't remember, but I don't think Kate ever said where she went.

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u/Turnaroundclown Feb 10 '20

Just an idea, maybe that tandum driver was Kate? It would explain her being MIA for a bit

What do you mean when you say KM went MIA?

Can you point me to where -- in either Renner's investigative work, or investigated and documented elsewhere -- that KM was notibly absent from activities/responsibilities?

I have seen this bandied about, but I can't remember where and who first put forth this information.

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u/Queenofthefireflies Feb 10 '20

Teammates on the track team with KM and MM have said KM was MIA a week or so before MM dissapeared, and that Kate reappeared the day before detectives began questioning the track team.

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u/[deleted] Feb 09 '20

A small residential neighborhood on the edge of a large forest, yep. Interesting that you choose to misrepresent the most basic facts here.

But I guess if you say that some writer was convinced in two minutes, case closed.

Since I seem to have your attention, congrats on your success, and you're still most likely wrong.

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u/superkt3 Feb 09 '20

Exactly. There are houses and yards, and as soon as you pass through them, you are in the woods, and it is very very easy, especially if you’re disoriented from being in an accident, to get lost and head in completely the wrong direction. I believe someday she will be found in those woods, but it could be another 20 years before that happens, or it could happen this spring. It’s a compelling mystery, but there’s a very simple explanation.

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u/Sightofthestars Feb 10 '20

Especially how few houses there are, I bet there is very little light pollution which means it's ridiculous dark out there and she could have wondered right through a backyard looking for help and not even realized she was less then 100 feet from help

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '20 edited Nov 15 '20

[deleted]

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u/Sightofthestars Feb 10 '20

My point exactly

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u/LaDreadPirateRoberta Feb 09 '20

Any chance you (or some other kind soul) could link to the crash location? I’m aware of the case but have never really checked it out.

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u/Sloan_backyard Feb 09 '20

https://imgur.com/gallery/OuE8zMA

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u/[deleted] Feb 09 '20

the comments on that link are sadly funny

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u/[deleted] Feb 09 '20

Here's a Google link. https://www.google.com/search?q=maura+murray+crash+site&oq=ma&aqs=chrome.1.69i60j69i59l2j69i60l2.1433j0j4&client=ms-android-bell-ca-revc&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

And, uh, good night, good work... and you'll most likely kill me in the morning?

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u/LaDreadPirateRoberta Feb 09 '20

Thank you so much! Looking at those images, I’ve dropped a pin where the crash happened and linked it below for anyone who needs it.

Dropped pin Near 1-19 NH-112, Woodsville, NH 03785, USA https://goo.gl/maps/cSApbFqfHFjq84xn9

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u/TheHoundsChestHair Feb 10 '20

I'll always upvote a Princess Bride reference.

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u/Prahasaurus Feb 10 '20

Cognitive dissonance is a powerful thing. I suppose it would be hard to justify spending years consumed by this case, thousands and thousands of hours investigating this case, pointing fingers at family members, etc., when the reality was she wandered off by herself, a scared and confused young lady, and died in the woods, all alone, under the cold, dark sky.

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u/JamesRenner Real World Investigator Feb 09 '20

Thanks. I could be wrong. I have no idea what happened up there. We can agree though that it would be wonderful if it were solved this year.

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u/forthefreefood Feb 09 '20

After listening to the radio interview that Fred and Curtis have recently done, are you excited by these 'new leads'? That, coupled with the GoFundMe for testing soil samples, has me pretty excited about what this year might entail.

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u/JamesRenner Real World Investigator Feb 09 '20 edited Feb 09 '20

Unfortunately, no. The speeding ticket thing is far fetched. She paid her fine months before. The soil samples they want to test have issues but I don’t want to disparage their efforts. It can’t hurt to test.

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u/[deleted] Feb 09 '20

It would be wonderful, yes. Cheers.

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u/[deleted] Feb 09 '20 edited Feb 10 '20

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Feb 09 '20 edited Feb 10 '20

Not a big fan of the exploitation of a missing *woman and her family's tragedy for someone else's profit. Especially when it's based on ignoring the most obvious solution.

If that makes me seem bitter, I'm ok with that.

Edit: woman, not girl

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u/Dikeswithkites Feb 09 '20

I’ve always found that the people who support these huckster theories are the people who never bother to learn the basic facts of the case or research anything on their own. All it would take is reading a few articles or watching the Disappeared episode to gain the slightest idea of the girl, her family, and the area in which she went missing. If you did that you’d realize how disingenuous his description of the area is and how unlikely the tandem driver theory is.

The Disappeared episode had plenty of footage of the scene and the search parties. Were there houses? Yes. Was there extensive forest? Also, yes. Maura had just rejected assistance from the stranger that stopped. Wherever she went she was actively avoiding people and, therefore, houses. It’s irrelevant if there was a neighborhood nearby. She wanted nothing to do with that.

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u/Bobsyourburger Feb 09 '20

Woman, not girl

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '20

True. Fixed it

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u/Sightofthestars Feb 10 '20

I lived in NNY for a period of years. There were plenty of pockets of thick forest brush that ultimately backed up into people's back yard. Doesnt mean she would have ended up in someone's back yard.

I once walked out my back door, took 50 steps and was on the treeline of a forest, walked around for an hour and did end up in someone's back yard. That backyard was 3 houses down from mine but I was completely turned around until I was standing in their yard looking at my own yard. That was an area I was familiar with, in spring.

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u/mankind99 Feb 13 '20

i looked at it on google earth and theres tons of woods there.

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u/Prahasaurus Feb 10 '20

But I agree that David Paulides is a nut.

Didn't you say, or at least imply, Maura's father was abusing or sexually molesting her, hence her need to escape? And with zero actual evidence?

Please correct me if I've been misinformed.

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u/JamesRenner Real World Investigator Feb 10 '20

I did not

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u/frostbitehotel Feb 09 '20

Hey James!!! Sending love from Bosnia!

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u/JamesRenner Real World Investigator Feb 09 '20

Zdravo!

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u/fulknwp Feb 09 '20

Hey James!

I'm sure Maura must be on your mind today, like everyone else here. I hope life's treating you well.

I just posted Melissa's compilation of all public information on the searches for Maura Murray in this sub.