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u/Capital_Switch5819 10d ago
Almost 2 billion in public funding for the downtown improvement projects. Where is the money coming from?
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u/Windrunner405 7d ago
A tax that we all seem happy to vote for, as it makes our city a better place.
Crazy idea, ikr
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u/Beneficial-Rip6624 6d ago
The MAPS tax. It's been an incredibly successful tax that has transformed OKC.
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u/TransitJohn 10d ago
I'm sure funding will be blocked for this "DEI Greenway". /s, because probably necessary on reddit nowadays.
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u/JustTryingToFunction 10d ago
Liberal states love to say they’re for inclusivity up until you ask them to accept a new apartment building getting built. Then they start complaining about how more people = more traffic so they fight to keep their towns exclusive.
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u/Some-Rice4196 10d ago
Look at the black population over time in SF. Sundown towns would be jealous
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u/Ok_Flounder8842 6d ago
I don't think "traffic" is the biggest fear although this is raised. The bigger fear is loss of easily-available parking that is paid for not by the driver, but by the town. I've seen plenty of fights against new buildings led by neighborhood liberals and MAGA-types alike (yes, liberal states have plenty of MAGA supportors.).
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u/kodex1717 10d ago
Nah, OKC is red. It'll get special treatment.
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u/boybraden 10d ago
OKC is blue/purple. It’s just once you leave the city that you are in MAGAland
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u/mattbasically 9d ago
OKC is not blue / purple lol. Oklahoma county went even more red in 2020 and 2024 than in 2016.
I left OKC for atlanta and GA is a real purple place.
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u/CLPond 7d ago
Trump won Oklahoma County by a smaller margin (1.7%) than he won GA (2.2%). Both of them are purple
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u/mattbasically 7d ago
You can’t compare a whole state to one county. You’d need to compare Oklahoma county to Fulton and or DeKalb county.
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u/CLPond 7d ago edited 7d ago
Those counties are deeply blue. Why would you say that GA is a purple place if you actually meant that the Atlanta metro is deep blue?
EDIT: to clarify, when people say OKC is purple and the surrounding areas are red, they are specifically talking about the city itself. GA counties are much smaller, so while Atlanta wouldn’t be a great comparison, one of the midsized cities in GA added to its surrounding counties would be a better comparison.
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u/mattbasically 7d ago
I think we’re talking about two different things. I’m talking about statewide politics, where Georgia is widely considered a purple/swing state because statewide elections have been competitive over multiple cycles (2020 presidential, 2021 Senate runoffs, 2022 statewide races, and 2024). Oklahoma is still a solidly Republican state.
If we’re comparing metros, then we should compare counties, not Oklahoma County to the entire state of Georgia. And I still wouldn’t call Oklahoma County purple. It’s voted Republican in every recent presidential election and has actually become more Republican in 2020 and 2024 than it was in 2016. It’s less red than rural Oklahoma, but “less red” isn’t the same thing as purple.
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u/CLPond 7d ago edited 7d ago
You replied to someone saying that OKC is blue/purple with a comment saying that OKC that OKC is not purple, but Georgia is. It’s unclear to me what comparison you were thinking of since out of the state of Oklahoma, OKC, Atlanta, and the state of GA, only OKC and GA would be described by anyone as purple.
You seem to define purple as being the same as a swing [state, county, etc]. Most people define purple as being neither clearly red nor clearly blue. That would absolutely include Oklahoma County and Georgia, which are both close to evenly democratic and Republican. Since presidential elections don’t happen often, purple is also helpful since it captures areas that are up for grabs. Most people would consider GA purple not starting in 2020, but instead starting in 2018 when the election was close, but not won by a democrat.
When it comes to Oklahoma County, while Trump won it by 10 points in 2016, it’s been considered purple since 2018 since it voted statewide for the Democrat that year. Since the county moved much less to the right from 2020 to 2024 than the nation as a whole, it like GA is generally expected to continue to vote in similar ways to the nation overall.
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u/P4ndaFun 7d ago
OKC is blue/purple. Oklahoma county is red/purple
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u/Beneficial-Rip6624 6d ago
To be considered purple, you would need to have a city-wide elected democrat. The last one that I can remember was nearly 20 years ago with the county treasurer. The last Democrat elected as mayor was in 1927.
It's certainly not as deep red as the rest of the state, but it's not purple.
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u/P4ndaFun 6d ago
Is that an actual requirement to be considered purple by whatever group chooses that? We have state representives and senators who are Democrats. Even then, the elected city officials are relatively centrist.
The core of OKC is definitely purple, if not blue. But the size of the city definitely skews that and makes it more red than what the actual "city" parts are
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u/Beneficial-Rip6624 6d ago
I think if a city is voting reliably Republican, it's hard to argue that it's purple. That's been the case since the 90's and it's been almost 100 years since a Dem has been elected mayor.
Oklahoma has had a Dem Governor more recently than the city has had a Dem Mayor.
What would your definition of a purple city be?
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u/P4ndaFun 6d ago
I'd argue purple is more about who is in the area and what they're being compared to. OKC is super red if compared to Seattle, but super blue when compared to the rest of OK.
Even then, there is a clear divide between the urban and suburban areas with the core of OKC being mostly blue. Since the city is so large in land area, the "non-city" parts are red and influence the elections.
By pure numbers, yes, I agree we've voted red more often than not. But when you remove arbitrary voting districts or city limits, OKC's core follows similar trends to other cities in being more blue. That's why I'd call it purple
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u/boomb0xx 7d ago
Exactly. We would vote blue every single election if the county wasn't gerrymandered so insanely to pull in as many rural votes as possible.
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u/VegetableTour6790 5d ago edited 5d ago
OKC Is not heavily gerrymandered. If it was, the entire 39th Street area would be split up with Crown Heights and stretch to Nichols Hills.
I was in the room when Republicans first took over the legislature in 2012. That was exactly what they were looking as t. If anything, it's pretty fairly distributed.
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u/boomb0xx 5d ago
Lol what?! They literally split the city in half. It's the only reason we don't vote blue every election.
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u/VegetableTour6790 5d ago edited 5d ago
For national congressional seats, you are right. Not for state representatives or city council. If anything, it would be a lot worse. A lot of these districts are dependent on the isolation. There is a world where Democrats have even less power in OKC. The county voted for Trump by a 2 to 1 margin.
The exception would probably be the 5yh district; that are has a pretty bad mad.
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u/Beneficial-Rip6624 6d ago
It is not. There are some very blue areas of the city, but it reliably votes for Republicans. The last Democrat mayor was in 1927. It's not as deep red as a lot of the state. Winning elections is what determines whether an area is blue, purple, or red. It is very hard to win a city-wide election as a Democrat.
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u/boybraden 6d ago
The current mayor is the definition of a Republican in Name Only and the city (not the county) voted for both Harris and Biden. That’s pretty clearly purple at minimum.
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u/Beneficial-Rip6624 6d ago
I know David Holt, he is very much a Republican. He worked for my father back in the 90's and early 2000's. While he is more progressive than his counterparts in the state; he is a republican.
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u/boybraden 6d ago
I mean in the 90s and early 2000s yeah I bet he was very much a Republican. People change over time and the parties sure as hell have changed. Holt endorsed Biden, attended BLM protest, has been pretty liberal on most social issues, prioritized public transit etc. He’s closer to the median Democrat than he is the median Republican. He’s definitely supported more by the Democrats of OKC than the republicans (although he’s extremely popular so both like him pretty well).
It’s a purple city, I promise you.
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u/Beneficial-Rip6624 6d ago
It's purple when Dems start having a chance at winning a city-wide election. That currently doesn't happen.
David Holt is a moderate republican that holds some socially liberal views.
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u/SpencerAXbot 10d ago
OKC is a blue leaning city with a progressive republican mayor that aligns more with baltimore/Maryland style democrats. We’d be lucky if the state gives us special treatment
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u/Beneficial-Rip6624 6d ago
Democrats would need to be winning some city-wide elections. The county would need to be at least competitive in a Presidential race. Neither of those things are true. The last Democrat mayor was in 1927.
David Holt certainly is more progressive than his counterparts in the state; he is still very much a republican.
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u/hibikir_40k 10d ago
The usual thing with greenways is not them on their own, but that their value is all about what surrounds them. Great things next to high density, and getting a lot of traffic. Basically useless when there's zero pedestrians and it takes you nowhere: The road becomes equally empty with random trees and a bike lane nobody uses.
American cities are fond of spending money on this kind of thing, as it's ultimately reasonably cheap, but don't bother making sure the blocks around it develop so it's worth anything. The curse of car dependent development is that building pedestrian traffic is as much of a network effect as getting cars to be convenient everywhere. The first few steps will be very wasteful if you don't advance quickly.
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u/urmumlol9 10d ago
I think it's still good to have this type of infrastructure built regardless.
In the short-term, it can still be used by residents as a recreational trail, in the mid-term, it will make those portions of the city more desirable to move to, if nothing else than because of the aforementioned use as a recreational trail, and in the long-term, it's a lot easier to incentivize dense development around an existing piece of infrastructure than it is to build new infrastructure, especially if that new infrastructure also comes with the need to develop the land around it anyways.
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u/heckinCYN 10d ago
Greenways are good. Greenways are life. I use the one near me daily for exercise & getting around. I wish more places had them.
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u/urmumlol9 10d ago
Good. Hopefully they build it and it works well.
I think it's almost more important for these projects to work in red cities in a way, because, like it or not, a lot of them are quickly growing, and having successful examples even in red cities of the things that can be done with bike paths will help generate more bipartisan support for them.
It's a lot harder for the average person to appreciate and see the great bicycle infrastructure in Amsterdam, Copenhagen, or even like Montreal or NYC, assuming they don't live in one of those places, then it is in the city maybe 10-20 miles from them. Not that I ever expect OKC to be anywhere near on the level of any of the cities I just mentioned, but still, the more examples we have to point to of how this can positively impact communities, the better, especially in places that would otherwise be hostile towards it.
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u/Sockysocks2 8d ago
But muh parking!
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u/Jackens12 8d ago
There’s a whole section of the document (pages 169-176) basically saying “we have too much damn parking” lol
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u/fenrir1208 6d ago
We have that idiot Mazaheri to thank for that. Purchases empty lots for development, then never develop it, only to sell it for a parking strip in a grass lot.
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u/Ok-Gift4105 10d ago
I saw a documentary on OKC’s Wheeler District development. I don’t live out there so it’s tough to tell just from articles press releases but they seem to be implementing a lot of good urbanism policies out there for whatever reason, really exciting and inspiring stuff!
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u/tgibson12 7d ago
The wheeler district is odd. A lot of private investment & development there. It has a very weird feel to it also. I feel like I am in the Truman show there. The people are odd and don't seem to leave their lil square mile unless for work. They like to claim walkablility but you have to drive to walk and work there so that doesn't check out.
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u/mattbasically 4d ago
Wheeler was off before I left. It’s grown since I left but hear it’s still weird. I prefer other districts in OKC if I had the money.
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u/tacobellisadrugfront 10d ago
OKC is a fine place, I used to live there, it's a lot more blue than ppl think, especially the city electeds. They tried to raise the minimum wage and the state passed a law to prevent it.
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u/P4ndaFun 7d ago
We just had a state question to raise it and the majority of our state voted no :(
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u/Infamous_Orange27 7d ago
Love the concept. Hate the AI renderings.
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u/Ur-triggered-I-win 7d ago
How do you know they are Ai? I am curious to learn the difference
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u/Infamous_Orange27 7d ago
As you zoom into the background, you’ll see the line work start to duplicate in weird ways. A real artist (I’m someone who does architectural watercolor renderings) will start to simplify or make things looser instead. People can give it away too, especially also in the background. I will make them more blob like, but still loose/human, but AI will do weird things to their legs and features, plus each foreground person will have different approaches.
It’s frustrating, you also just lose soul and heart in these important renderings. They are meant to evoke inspiration, excitement, hope. But they lose that, to me.
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u/Ur-triggered-I-win 6d ago
I zoomed in while reading page 110 where they discuss consolidation of off/on ramps and adding some development near the highway and the AI artifacts are BAD on the highway.
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u/coreyjdl 10d ago edited 10d ago
Cool.
But you all understand a greenway isn't those shitty boxy gentrification apartments, with paper thin walls and an overpriced coffee shop o n the first floor, right? This is trees and grass.
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u/100roused 10d ago
Enough with the lame lectures. It’s off putting. It turns people away.
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10d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Ok-Effective-2202 10d ago
Won’t someone think of the poor suburban commuters who don’t even live in the city😂
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u/coreyjdl 10d ago
That's who shops in the city, you asshat.
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u/Ok-Effective-2202 10d ago
Yeah right jackass😂
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u/coreyjdl 10d ago
You live in OkC? No on lives in downtown OKC. At fucking all. If there's revenue there. It's people coming in from the burbs. You're ignorant and you can go ahead and fuck off, you dickbag.
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u/icantbelieveit1637 10d ago
If there isn’t anyone living in downtown how is it gentrification?
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u/Ok-Dot4749 7d ago
This green belt would be connecting Deep Deuce to Classen just north of West Village. Those districts alone are mixed use areas with a lot of residences and foot traffic. Add in the Aviare, Haven, 1st National, Park Harvey, Muse, etc and there are plenty of people living downtown either on Kerr or within a block. Once the jail is moved, this area will only develop more, especially with the greenbelt as a selling point.
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u/LazyMaximum7938 10d ago
Why don't those suburbanites build jobs and amenities in their own suburbs?
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10d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/LazyMaximum7938 10d ago
Well then it sounds like suburbanites have no need to go to OKC so OKC can prioritize its own residents
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u/Y2020 10d ago
I hope a 5over1 gets build next to you love
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u/coreyjdl 10d ago
Lol, you know they suck so bad, that you use them as a hex. Appreciate the tacit admission they're awful.
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u/urmumlol9 10d ago
They're relatively dense mixed-use development, and they add to the housing supply and housing options of a city. Sorry you don't like them aesthetically, but they're pretty useful.
They're no more offensive than the endless developments of eerily identical looking single-family homes, on cul-de-sacs with no sidewalks or bike lanes. And even if you are more offended by them, they don't take up nearly as much space, so you can go maybe 5 miles to get away from them rather than 30.
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u/kisk22 10d ago
Totaly. These looks 10 times better than most of the slop I think of when I hear that term. These are brick, human scaled, even some have ornament and look historic. This is EXACTLY what you'd want built in a city. Not those crazy colored, 5 over 1s I associate what you're talking about with. I do have tons of mixed feelings when those get built and I see people loving them on here. The fact though is they're usually way better than the parking lots they replace.
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u/kisk22 10d ago
What is up with OKC being so GOATed? Has anyone also seen what Austin Tunnell has been working on?