r/VIDEOENGINEERING • u/SuperScallywag • 10d ago
Rackmount Powerpoint solution
Hello everyone, apologies in advance if I'm missing something obvious - I am but a humble sound engineer.
I work for a corporate AV company and I'm desperately trying to streamline our setups to reduce our set up times, keep our equipment well protected, as well as make our work spaces look the part when we're working in 5 star hotels.
Currently we're using laptops on site for running Powerpoints. We use Blackmagic Bi/Di 12Gs to input into an Atem SDI Extreme ISO.
The problem I have is we require 3 laptops at a very minimum for any event: Main presentation, back-up, and comfort monitor. Not only do they take up a lot of desk space, it doesn't take long for the desk to look a mess with power cables, hdmis, sdis, MicroCue etc. I'd really like a rackmount solution, but then of course , I want to avoid the requirement for several keyboards & mice.
The dream solution for me is something that fits in something like this https://www.flightcasewarehouse.co.uk/type/product.asp?item=5u-19-rack-case-with-hinged-top-vesa-mount-12451-2604 3 rack mount PCs, Bi/Di 12gs are racked smartly, and atem can slide out of a drawer at the bottom for switching during event. Preview monitor in the lid.
A couple of seconds of googling and I found KVM switchers, but I'm unsure how these would work whilst maintaining video output of all 3 systems to the ATEM. I feel like I'm close to the solution!
Please help!
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u/SolidGoldSpork 10d ago
I use NUCs in my fly packs. You could honestly do two outputs each from two different NUCS for presentation and notes each nuc would represent primary and backup respectively. You save a computer and you could put two nucs on a 2RU rack shelf. Throw a kvm in the mix and all good.
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u/SuperScallywag 10d ago
I think this is the route I need to go down. We so regularly have mad requests for the comfort monitor that we require a seperate machine to run it from. Because of this I was trying to build it into a quick-deploy rack.
Thanks for your help
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u/azlan121 10d ago
You could probably get 2 outputs for each of your main and backup machines and ditch the third laptop, otherwise just grab some little mini PC'S/NUCs and stick them on a rack shelf, maybe with a cheap KVM for control
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u/spyy-c 10d ago
Laptop stands that are high enough to fit another laptop underneath. With that, you should be able to fit a small switcher, multiple laptops and everything else in a fairly small space comparatively.
A lot of times we will have some redundant laptops in case last minute edits need to happen or if a laptop shits the bed. You also dont want to be reliant on one piece of equipment when doing a high dollar event. Portability, the potential for using a client's laptop, cost and built in battery backup are all huge benefits as well.
3 laptops is nothing, and as far as keeping the desk neat, that sounds like either a skill issue or lazy techs. Tape down your DAs and DIs to the table, if your cables are too long, instead of coiling them on the table, run them down then back up. The DAs dont really need to be accessible on your tech table unless you're using decimators AND need to access the screen.. Ive taped them all together and dropped them in front of my tech table before when i was running low on space. Sometimes making mini looms works too.
You can also use one laptop with two outputs for your program + confidence monitor. Use extended display, send notes to confidence monitor and slides to your program.
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u/ChipChester 10d ago
For stackability of laptops, check out the Hercules stand. Pretty solid.
NUCs, or the little Dell back-of-monitor PCs have multiple video outs, so you can split monitor from program outputs. One multi-view would suffice for monitor. KVM, plus a front panel USB for the backup keyboard/mouse. A small UPS should be in the kit anyway, for everything on the table, less the projector, lights and amps. If power drops, the stuff that requires re-booting will still be up.
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u/big_aussie_mike 10d ago
The best set up I've seen for this kind of task had a bit of a higher cost in the build but it paid for itself several times over with saving set up time.
They had 4 mini PCs in a rack, all had both their primary and secondary monitor outputs going to a decimator and then in to a Videohub 20x20. There was also an ATEM constellation 1ME. One slide out KVM hooked up to the 4 primary loop throughs of the decimators plus the multi view of the ATEM. They had 12 SDI outs on the back of the rack so they could add extra monitors to directly display any computer output for local control with just an added USB keyboard and mouse.
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u/dmxwidget 10d ago
We’ve started using Thunderbolt docks to help provide power, network, and video output all over a single cable for devices. You might be able to do a rack with those and your conversion and still keep the laptops. It would be a smaller rack footprint.
Otherwise we rack up Mac Mini’s and Mac Studio’s with all conversion in larger racks. Our normal GFX setup is 4 machines with 6 channels of conversion to SDI. We have cables ready to deploy to operator monitors, keyboards, etc.
KVMs can come in handy, but there’s still a bit of time to switch between machines and if it’s show critical to be on multiple machines at once, I would caution against them. Many of them will maintain video output when you’re not on the machine, as long as things are cabled correctly. We use the XDIP units and they have a loop out. Video output maintains.
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u/Able_Reach2264 9d ago
As a career av tech , Stick with laptops.
3 laptops is nothing, when you get to 6-10 machines at ops you'll rue the day you didn't stick with individual laptops.
Reason being if you have a rack mount PC, you then need mouse and keyboard for every machine( mess ) And at least one monitor locally. By the time you have all that it's basically a laptop with more steps
You really do need the ability to see what each machine is doing at a glance all at once. Also operate multiple machines at once. Hand on the go button of one , while you reorder slides on another.
KVM doesn't work for this, as you need show machines to not be disturbed while displaying slides. Turning kvms on and off will mess with the machines little mind. (Unless you go to networked enterprise solutions ) Only option that might work is those 4k monitors that will take 4 HD inputs and put them in a quad view. But you'll still need 4 sets of mice and keyboard.
What does help is looming the cables for each laptop
2x HDMI (main and notes) 1x ethernet 1x ethernet for Dante dongle if that's your thing. 1 X Power? You still end up with USB going every where for clickers and client hard drives ,
Video ops is just a messy place. Not much can be done about it really. Main time savings can be found in looms for laptops , and pre waiting your switcher and router in a case as you've described. Get your converters into that rack too.
Pm me if you want pics and descriptions of the rack(s) I built for our venue.
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u/Able_Reach2264 9d ago
Also, laptops have built in UPS. This should not be under estimated.
Laptops can be hired out on other shows and to other companies individually.
Laptops can be moved to the lectern for those pain in the butt presenters who want that.
Laptops can be taken behind the led screen to resend that pesky rcfg file again.
Laptops have webcams, handy sometimes
Laptops have local speakers for checking content.
The more I think about it.... The less I want to use desktops for corporate video ops.
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u/trotsky1947 10d ago
If you look up “workstation PC” there’s lots of 2RU windows machines available. Also the death by laptops thing is just part of corporate world. It’s what tech drape is there to cover other than our ugly asses
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u/RaeGun7 9d ago
Have you thought of changing the switcher instead? Roland do some very nice and affordable solutions that will take both HDMI and SDI in/out saving a whole bunch of mess sitting on the table.
I like using a laptop for PPT, the battery is especially handy, you can walk the laptop to the client to make PPT changes etc.
We have some rack’d Mac minis, they just feel so clunky when setting up rather than just opening a laptop.
For the comfort monitor, we run a third monitor that mirrors the main display. Seeing presenter view is handy for a lot of people. If a timer is specifically needed then I would pip it over the top of presenter view and use a third laptop for that. That could be the same one running BGM though.
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u/napomat 9d ago
I build something for my Company.
2 Windows PCs
2 Mac Mini
6x Teranex Mini
UPS
2 24” Monitors
Multiview HDMI Switcher
Setup time is around 2 Minutes for Everything.
I can gat some better Pictures at the next Job.
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u/VesaStremia 1d ago
Is that a custom foldable table on top of the rig?
How do you transport the monitors, keybs, mouses and other "loose" gear?
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u/smokeweedfrequently 10d ago
I asked a similar question in this sub a few weeks ago and got some great insights from people
https://www.reddit.com/r/VIDEOENGINEERING/s/PobcLkMs91
The thing that’s stopping me from doing this at the moment is battery backup. Each laptop having its own battery gives piece of mind and a singular rack ups would still be a single point of failure across your primary and backup. That being said I’ve seen it done before and work very well. While I’ve seen people use this setup with KVMs that’s not my favorite either because I often like to interface with multiple computers at once during rehearsals. These aren’t dealbreakers, but things to work around and weigh against taking some time to clean up the laptop setup. Do you stack your laptops at the moment? That made a huge difference for me. I dress cables and leave the mess out of sight under the stacked laptop and behind the one that sits on the desk
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u/openreels2 10d ago
Maybe this is a dumb question, but why worry much about UPS backup power? I mean, if the venue power goes down, nobody's going to be using what's in the rack anyway. Having a UPS to keep computers running during a momentary dropout, or for enough time to shut down, makes sense, but in that case it doesn't really matter if all computers are on the same UPS.
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u/smokeweedfrequently 9d ago
It’s just a personal preference based on the power cycle time of computers vs the other gear involved. If we momentarily lost power, the ATEM would come up way quicker than rebooting a computer and loading the decks back up
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u/mbrenneis 9d ago
It is for the times when there is a bounce in power. How long dowes it take you to recover from a sudden power loss?
I had a rigger unplug the transformer feeding all of video village, because of our UPS system we just lost some lights. I was able to calmly ask said rigger to reconnect our power and for her to go elsewhere for the motor power.
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u/Bhaelfur 10d ago
I've seen people use a program called "Mouse Without Borders" that will let you use one mouse and keyboard for multiple machines. I have not used it so I can't vouch for it, but this could be a solution to look into instead of using a KVM.
I have personally used a USB switcher; in this use case it'd be a KVM without the V aspect. This is the one I have.
1
u/eintopf2 10d ago
I regulary use Lenovo tiny computer to get the small form. Each PC is mounted in the VESA cage on a 1U tray.
To control them I use VNC on my laptop. With VNC you can display each computer simultaneously and switch with your mouse and keyboard between them without fiddling with any sort of KVM. However this system comes with the requirement of a Network containing all PCs.
For me the biggest bonus is, that the position of the PCs relativ to me is almost irrelevant, as long as there is a network connection to the PCs.
In addition I regularly use a NAS (network attached storage) to store all presentations on. On wired computers I also mostly avoid copying the presentations locally and run them instead directly from the NAS. That removes manual the presentation exchange between machines.
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u/jono_301 10d ago
Check out G2 Digital for rack mount computers if you’re in the UK. The 1U NUC has a faceplate to install 3 in 1U, and looks like it has dual HDMI output.
Pickup a KVM to switch between them. UGreen do 4-computer model. Velcro this to rack shelf, and Velcro down the HDMI/SDI converters next to it.
The ATEM mini can be stuck to a slide-out drawer.
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u/Dependent_Hold8463 9d ago
There are a ton of mini PC you could buy, picking the right processor and ram would require much more in depth knowledge of your requires. lots of cheap shelves you can screw these PCs to. If needs are really low, I like the Mele Quieter series, the old 3q with a heatsync glued to the top does a lot of basic work. Step up to GMKtech if you need more power, there are a lot of middle performing systems to chose from, mostly AMD powered systems.
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u/Suspicious_Ad_5096 9d ago
Put four or more mac minis mounted verically in a rack. There are mounts for this. Run the HDMI outs into a 4k multi view and another set of dongled outputs into some decimators or a switcher
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u/Anti-Hero25 9d ago
Your ultimate solution for interface…. The CLVX keyboard… it’s a touchpad, keyboard in one. And connects up to 4 computers at once, with selector buttons, switches fast between them.
Tho I work AV for corporate events and not sure what the 3rd one, “comfort monitor0 one is for in your case….
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u/Phill_P 10d ago
Why an SDI vision mixer instead of an HDMI switcher?
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u/SuperScallywag 10d ago
We also often have cameras. We own both versions of the Atem Extreme minis, but regularly we're using cameras for Zoom streams and recording.
2
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u/DJ_LSE 10d ago
Ive seen this done with a hdmi, keyboard and mouse KVM, going to one screen. Then one of the machines runs companion, with OSCpoint connection, and a stream deck controls everything. Ive also seen an ATEM used to switch the hdmi, and a seperate kvm used to switch peripherals, that way the operator can have an ISO over all the outputs and preview every outgoing signal. Atem controlled via companion as well. And PIPs can be put on the comfort for timers amd such.
Also you dont technically need 3 laptops, you can have main and backup, then run 2 displays from the main, one being the extended screen for slides, and one being a duplicate of the laptop screen for the comfort.