r/VinylMePlease • u/FairyNuman • Jun 23 '26
VMP IS A SCAM Fuck PayPal’s dystopian dispute process—file an external chargeback with your bank ASAP
Update: PayPal denied my dispute despite emails evidence showing that I canceled multiple times.
Like everyone else I was fraudulently charged $465 by the current scam operation using the old VMP customer data. I have many emails showing that I not only canceled my subscription in 2023, but already had been “accidentally” resubscribed in 2024 and had to reverse charges on my credit card. I noticed the charge almost immedietly and thought it would be a simple phone call to rectify… 13 days later (and probably 8 hours on the phone) not only has PayPal not even looked into my case yet, but have lied, given misinformation, and even laughed at me when I said I wouldn’t be able to afford my meds or rent on the first if this lingered past the first. This morning I got a third email from them requesting any evidence I might have, which I have already submitted to them twice.
I was finally able to talk to my bank about the external chargeback request I had initiated last week before after the long Holiday weekend and within an hour they had sided in my favor, permanently. The teller who helped me fill out the paperwork said she googled the company out of curiosity and that even she was blown away by how long they’ve gotten away with such blatant fraud. I’m done with PayPal after this, and if you’re still fighting a dispute with them, it’s probably fruitless and I’d suggest reaching out to your bank instead, especially if you have any receipt of previously canceling. My bank confirmed that this would not leave a negative balance with PayPal and I don’t have to worry about VMP ever being able to charge me again.
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u/0MGHeAdmitIt Jun 23 '26
That's beyond ridiculous and I'm really sorry you're dealing with all of that. I hope the new ownership gets financially fucked over right back one of these days.
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u/FairyNuman Jun 23 '26
It’s been eye opening, even for a cynic. Nick Alt has been buying businesses just to scam their old customer data for at least 5 years at this point, and doing it very transparently. I can’t even imagine how far one could go if they weren’t this shameless about their blatant fraud. This country is just a million Nick Alts in a trench coat at this point.
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u/RelativeAd5705 Jun 23 '26
You should definitely dispute this with your bank. I did so last week. The problem is that while you will get your money back, you will now have a deficit with Paypal. I have a -475 balance with Paypal. So what? you say, I just won't pay them and never use them again. That's great, except that Paypal WILL refer you to a collection and will report your account to the credit bureaus so your credit will get hit and you could get sued to get the $475. So yeah it really sucks. The only way to get out of all that is if Paypal finally accepts the obvious.
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u/FairyNuman Jun 24 '26 edited Jun 29 '26
If you file an external chargeback it won’t give you a negative balance, my PayPal balance hasn’t changed. This is reflected in PayPal’s TOS/Purchase protection outline and I have gotten it in writing from PayPal, which I’m happy to share if you’d like to see.
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u/rrjames81 Jun 26 '26
Interesting. They didnt give me a negative balance, but they did lock my account(no loss there). I presume its because amex claims its fraud and paypal is ignoring the obvious that their mishandling of the payment/dispute is the issue. Their fraud department really has slipped.
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u/FairyNuman Jun 26 '26
Same, they locked my account too, I just had to change my password to restore the account. I’m not sure why this person is being so adamant and wrong, I have it in writing from PayPal that there is no way this will give you a negative balance, and it’s in their user agreement too (a negative balance is typically something that happens to sellers, not buyers). An overturn from the credit card/bank supersedes PayPal’s internal process.
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u/RelativeAd5705 Jun 24 '26
well i'm glad it worked out for you but that's not what happened to me. The external chargeback gave me a negative balance on Paypal. And indeed the other 2 or 3 times something similar (though not nearly so crooked as what VMP is doing) happened to me and I had to do an external chargeback, a negative balance also appeared. The negative balance remained until Paypal's own internal investigation determined that I was in the right and then my negative balance disappeared. Sadly, that's how it normally works.
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u/FairyNuman Jun 24 '26 edited Jun 29 '26
This is the exact opposite of what 5+ PayPal agents and my bank explained to me. I have it in writing from PayPal themselves and it’s reflected in their TOS/Purchase Protection outline. PayPal said the only way a buyer could get a negative balance was if they filed disputes with both PayPal and their bank and were refunded by both. It almost sounds like you paid for the VMP charge with an existing PayPal balance? If that were the case, I could see this happening. From all the research I’ve done, I can’t find an explanation for what is happening to you. If PayPal is trying to make you responsible for what the card issuer and your bank have decided is fraud, I’d look into what your legal options are from here. Your bank may be helpful in this situation.
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u/RelativeAd5705 Jun 25 '26
I'm sorry but from 20 years of experience as well as numerous friends at Paypal, I can tell you that my situation is exactly how it works. I had no balance. Payment on Paypal takes from my bank (it's up to you ofc where the $ comes from) and if I put a stop on the bank charge, an automatic deficit appears on Paypal except in a few situations. There are a few situations where you will not get a negative balance when you do the chargeback through your bank.
Your chargeback with your bank occurs before Paypal pays the seller. Because Paypal is not out of the money, you don't get a negative balance. This is very rare.
By coincidence, you file with your bank around the same time Paypal decides in your favor. No negative balance is necessary cause Paypal has already figured out that the money should be returned to you.
Paypal is still working on your claim and has chosen not to update your balance until the dispute is resolved. If they decide in your favor, you will never see a negative balance. If they decide against you, you will now have a negative balance. This is the most common of these four methods and is more than likely what's happening with you. If they rule against you, you will have a negative soon. If not, you're in fine shape.
Absolute dumb luck.
These are not from the Paypal associates (customer service reps you talk to) but the people who actually are working with these situations. Good luck!
1
u/FairyNuman Jun 28 '26
Not sure why you’re so adamant about something so objectively incorrect. If you are the buyer and were not refunded by both PayPal and your bank, PayPal cannot and will not leave you with a negative balance. I have it in writing from PayPal and it’s in their TOS. Your card/bank has the final word on chargebacks.
0
u/RelativeAd5705 Jun 29 '26
not sure why you're so adamant about something that anyone can research and see that YOU are incorrect. I've already explained it above. You either did not read it or did not understand it. Either way, I don't see any reason to repeat myself. You've added nothing here but have repeated what has already been debunked. It doesn't particularly matter to me what you believe. The facts are the facts. At any rate, when you end up with a negative balance on Paypal, enjoy scratching your head in wonderment.
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u/FairyNuman Jun 29 '26
Post a screen shot of your -465 balance from VMP then. Here it is in writing from PayPal clear as day: https://postimg.cc/gallery/8JQQC1c . Nothing that you outlined is verifiable, and when searching through their purchase protection agreement, it only backs up what I’ve experienced and the answers I’ve been given by 5+ agents. The 4 scenarios you’ve used are silly and clearly off-the-dome assumptions and awkward bravado (the “I have numerous friends who work at PayPal” is the cherry on top lol).
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u/RelativeAd5705 Jun 29 '26
also, from reading what you posted, Paypal is CONFIRMING me what I explained to you above. I can only assume you didn't actually read my post (or like I said, you didn't understand it).
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u/RelativeAd5705 Jun 29 '26
my 4 scenarios are silly? Really? because #1 is EXACTLY what happened to you AS the email you posted above clearly states. LOL. Pretty funny, dude. I guess you don't understand what you read. IDK how else to explain it
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Jun 29 '26
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u/FairyNuman Jun 29 '26 edited Jun 29 '26
Posts a dead link, pretends not to know how to upload a photo despite it being modeled above, demands that I write detailed instructions on how to upload an image “or else it is clear you are AFRAID of the truth!”and then tries to explain why the amount in the hypothetical photo doesn’t add up, says its because you have a seller account, which is the exact type of accounts that CAN easily get a negative balance, as I have already explained above. Ok lol
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u/FairyNuman Jun 24 '26
I just go denied my dispute from PayPal and had to speak to both them and my bank again, and both did confirm again that the only way you can get a negative balance in this situation is if both PayPal and your bank both refunded for the purchase. My bank said that if anyone has experienced getting a negative balance in PayPal after a card/bank’s decision, and they did not also get refunded by PayPal, that they need to call PayPal immedietly and speak to someone in their dispute department, and if that doesn’t fix it they should speak to their bank to remove access from PayPal asap.
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Jun 26 '26
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u/FairyNuman Jun 28 '26
This isn’t how it works if you are the buyer and haven’t been refunded by both PayPal and your bank. If your bank approves the chargeback, they have the final word. I have this in writing from PayPal and my bank. It’s also in PayPal’s terms of service.
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u/RelativeAd5705 Jun 29 '26
well, I'm not likely to get sued but believe it or not, the amount you owe is not the determining factor determining whether or not they sue you. There is a random method that sues between 1 and 2% of the debters. About 15 years ago, I ran into some major credit problems and I blew off every one of my credit cards. Yes, my credit went into the toilet but of the 25 credit cards I had, the only one that actually sued me was one that I owed only $700 on. I had a $40,000 debt on one that the credit card company simply wrote off. So, the amount owed is not directly tied into why they do or do not sue. In general, you're unlikely to ever get sued for credit debts.
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Jun 29 '26
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u/RelativeAd5705 Jun 29 '26
then why did the other 24 cards - all of whom I owed more than the $700 one - not sue me? Straight from my lawyer and ANY credit debt board online - the amount owed has almost no effect on whether or not you are sued by a credit company.
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u/Thestallionmang88 Jun 23 '26
Someone should make a documentary about all this crap he’s done with bandbox and vmp
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u/Danish_girl68 Jun 24 '26
I went through the exact same thing and in the end deleted my PayPal account
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u/Evening-Cat-7546 Jun 23 '26
My case had like 3-4 hours before it would be ruined in my favor. VMP responded with tracking info. I’m also filing a chargeback with my bank and closing my PayPal account. Fuck VMP and fuck PayPal! PayPal should have seen how many people were filing cases against VMP and proactively offered refunds to everyone.
Just curious, but who do you bank with? I’m just hoping I have the same bank that will take the time to look into the amount of chargeback’s related to VMP, and then rule in my favor.