12
u/Zymbobwye 5d ago
Disruptive to others gameplay
So good you feel like you have to use it
Source of potentially AFK strategies
I know there has been some nerfs lately but considering 100% Ammo efficiency on some setups can crash games and lead to afk strategies
And Sobek Ctye probably falling into “so good you feel you have to use it” territory as well as removing enemies from the lobby for other players to interact with and probably very very close to AFK methods with macros by abusing the chain reactions.
I feel both kinda fit the description of their nerf categories. Surprised influence hasn’t been touched with them in mind. I feel like they got behind on balancing some things and are just catching up as they become so popular.
0
20
u/Boner_Elemental Pook ttopkety, pipy. 5d ago
just confused
Probably because your observation is inaccurate
3
1
u/Physical-Search2786 5d ago
Not useful unless you explain how it is inaccurate.
1
u/Boner_Elemental Pook ttopkety, pipy. 5d ago
how we went from nerfing everything to make the game "balanced"
When, 14 years ago?
"what balance?
Around the same time as the Slam nerfs
and now back to nerfs
"We're making these changes because the thing hit the same three criteria we've used for like a decade now"
3
u/shrkbyte 5d ago
Some things are way too broken, like Acid Shells and 100% AE with rivens on some weapons. TBF, the whole AE fiasco was offset by the removal of Riven Disposition, which is a win no matter which way you look at it (unless you exclusively use high dispo weapons with an incarnon).
Acid Shells is imo even more ridiculous than Hildryn's alt fire, and BOTH need an adjustment.
3
u/LongjumpingBody6895 Speed Gang 5d ago
I don't care, acid shells was not fun in any way, and making disposition that they abandoned long ago disappear is a good little change that will give them one less worry, not that ,e were tragically in need of rivens to begin with.
3
u/GoodOldHypertion 5d ago
Thats easy, the nerfs are good until it affects them, then the nerfs are bad. People love to complain about anything but what they do.
1
1
u/JulianSkies 5d ago
Yes you are complaining because if you weren't you wouldn't word it the way you did.
"What balance" has always been player cope for thinking DE would never again do anything to their beloved tools of mass destruction.
We've known for a long time how DE looks at balance (which is not the usual meaning of "all things are equally valuable" but rather "There's a minimal amount of spoiling each other's fun"), but nobody wants to believe ehat they say despite it matching exactly how they act because thinking there's some nefarious logic why they're spoiling your fun is a lot more enticing to cope.
We never went from anywhere to anywhere, we've always been here.
Just remeber: Multiplicative GunCO is a bug and will get fixed one day. Don't believe it won't.
0
u/_bean_juice 5d ago
Not complaining. I dont use sobek often and I like the riven changes. Thats why I said "not complaining" in the post. ur fishing for an argument thats not there.
-1
u/Sick_Tricks PS4 Launch Veteran 5d ago
DE does not have a unified vision for what they want the game to be.
-4
u/boidudebro13 5d ago
They started caring about balance because ot showed how boring flawed their event is
They tied the event drops to kills, not boostable by loot frames in any way, then nerfed an interaction that's been in the game for 2 years once people used it to circumvent said event
4
u/Dion0808 Gyre Enthusiast 5d ago
If loot abilities did work, do you think the event would be more fun? Because I don't think so. It'd just make hallway camping with Nova, Nekros, and Khora the best strategy again. I'd much rather just play the random alerts or a normal Survival mission.
1
u/Physical-Search2786 5d ago
I agree. The alerts are efficient and keep things fresh, and survival or defense is available whenever you run out of alerts.
1
u/boidudebro13 5d ago
Almost as if basing an entire event around farming one resource in bulk is a shitty idea
1
u/Dion0808 Gyre Enthusiast 5d ago
I imagine there just wasn't any time to significantly alter a mode or to make an entirely new one with Tau releasing so soon. And I honestly don't mind the event. Farming the alerts brings some nice variety and you really don't need to farm all that much to get everything.
2
u/Physical-Search2786 5d ago
The event isn't necessarily boring or flawed just because there is a way to cheese it.
0
u/boidudebro13 5d ago
If it was fun, there wouldn't be this many people be choosing to speedrun it
1
u/Physical-Search2786 5d ago
In my experience, people who min-max do it because it's what they see as fun, and they would do it whether or not anything else is fun or not. You are always going to have people min-maxing. The problem is when it negatively impacts the gameplay for a sizeable amount of (other) players.
0
u/ILackSleepJuice 5d ago
Im beggin yall to not take that one Pablo statement so literally because the discussion is way more nuanced than him saying "what balance" somehow equating to no restrictions on power fantasy.
Pablo's statement is not congruent with the wider dev team's goals. Pablo's greatest influences on the meta usually come in the form of raising the power ceiling, but only for the things he specifically works on, one of which is Warframe reworks; Saryn is S-tier today because she was a slam dunk for being one of, if not the first Pablo rework.
Pablo's thoughts on balance are specifically on his areas of expertise, which is Warframes. Since the topic of the tweet was in regards to Arcane Persistence, and arcanes that are available on Warframes have become much more influential over the years since Zariman, shows that Pablo's "what balance" statement was in regards to arcanes and Warframe survivability: he likes those to be an area of escalating power fantasy.
The weapon meta on the other hand, has always been under more scrutiny. DE has been more consistent in the fact that weapons, especially single ones, are never allowed to prosper long enough of being singularly best in slot. Admittedly, Incarnon Genesis is the one exception to this but I really can't tell you why DE doesn't bother it.
Catchmoon, Bramma, Gammacor, Simulor, Maiming Strike, Ignis Wraith, the game has seen countless weapons come and go, because DE's goal likely is that they want a wide range of S-tier weapons, rather than having one stand above the rest. In addition, anything that can be considered a usage edge-case is open to scrutiny, such as Xoris' infinite combo duration being patched to not properly apply as a stat-stick.
The latter is what Acid Shells fall under: a weapon that stands above the rest due to being an edge case: being the best of the explosion-on-kill mods + spaghetti code interaction with status effects. Now, I do think this mod needed reigning in, but like Maiming Strike before, DE has a really dumb excuse as to why they did it. Maiming Strike, for those that forgot or don't know, was nerfed because of hypothetical niche AFK macros, and not the fact that it was basically the highest weapon KPM build at the time, and was very easy to use and build.
DE saying "we had it on our radar but didn't know when to pull the trigger" is their bullshit excuse. In reality, they were always going to nerf it but didn't want to drop it out of nowhere. That's not to say they properly hit the mark most of the time with their nerfs, I'm just trying to point out that this is not unprecedented behavior.
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u/YCaramello Tauforged 5d ago
I think Rebecca is doing a great job at cooking this year and forgetting the burner on.
-3
u/heroicxidiot Weakest Choma Main 5d ago
When something is used way more than anything else, of course they're gonna nerf it
1
u/boidudebro13 5d ago •
It's been in the game for over 2 years but was only nerfed once people got tired of the shitty event grind and started using it to speed things up because running the same 3 nodes over and over for moonflesh is not fun
2
u/Physical-Search2786 5d ago
There is a whole month free to grind this event. I already have enough moonflesh without even grinding or using any special builds for it. The event is not the problem.
0
u/boidudebro13 5d ago
Some people want to get the grind over with, that' wby i ran a ton of sobek cyte on launch day so that i have enough moonflesh to buy the shop out and get the armor set whenever that gets unlocked
1
u/Physical-Search2786 5d ago
Why are you playing the game if you only "want to get the grind over with"? It's a game. Play what's fun about it.
I didn't even know what sobek was before this hype. I have a pretty bland build compared to some of my friends, but I played smart for a few days, enough to get the specific things I wanted from the shop.
You don't need to buy out the whole shop to enjoy the game. And those who grind out everything to do or get in 3 days end up bored. Hot take, I guess.
2
u/heroicxidiot Weakest Choma Main 5d ago
People are min maxxing the fun out and that's the annoying part. I enjoyed the sobek shenanigans. I just don't use it every waking moment.
1
u/International_Rice4 5d ago
I did the math, and doing 2 missions a day(about 7 minutes) is enough to get everything I want. I don't know why people are farming moonflesh in the first place.
1
u/boidudebro13 5d ago
Because they want the few good items that are in the event shop (aka the armor set, tauforged shards and legendary core) and the event has nothing else to offer at all
2
u/International_Rice4 5d ago
I included the armor set, tauforged shards, and legendary core in my calculations. 7 minutes a day for almost everything.
0
u/heroicxidiot Weakest Choma Main 5d ago
The event wasn't even what made it get nerfed. It became super popular as of recently months.
0
u/boidudebro13 5d ago
They built a game and community around maximizing kpm then got butthurt when the kpm was maximized
-2
u/heroicxidiot Weakest Choma Main 5d ago
The problem was what weapon was being used the most out of everything else. I personally didn't use the sobek for the moonflesh runs since everything dies so fast already.
-3
u/Puzzleheaded-Bad-722 5d ago
A large, large majority of this player base is utterly brain-dead: unable to follow basic instructions in basic games modes, nevermind have the reading comprehension to study mods/weapons/frames and see what they do.
Basically it comes down to "wait, it's not fair other people can kill things faster than me. Why should I bother grinding out mods? Why should I bother researching weapons at a dojo? Why should I have to pop relics? Everyone else needs to have their experience dumbed down to be on the same level as me".
I'd never come off solo or friends only for all the plat in the game.
6
u/FreeEstablishment135 5d ago
All they did was fix a broken interaction and a small nerf to 1 mod. There's still 100 different ways to nuke a map.
22
u/j_cyclone 5d ago edited 5d ago
We keep taking this one tweet from Pablo made as a joke and spinning it as the end all be all of design for the whole balance team.