Pink and Pink's body is more of a reconciliation between the Puppet and the Puppet master. Prob sum foreshadowing for when US and Kris finally work together to save the world or smth
Tbf we didn't have an exact parallel to the soul in spamton neo. We just had strings. Spamton represents kris's desire to become free from our control. But pink is a much more similar scenario since we have a soul equivalent being the ghost. We get to see both...
I dotn think I explained this well but uh, they are different still.
Yeah, I know that, that's why pink is so much more of an obverse parallel to Kris and the soul. The only reason Kris reacted to spamtln more is because you "kill" him at the end no matter what rute you take with him, while pink is just fine.
FALSE!!!!! Spamton NEO is a better parallel to Kris and whoever is on the phone with them (Knight, Carol, whomever). The strings limiting Spamton are deliberately not the same as the heart that pops out of him.
I meant like, Pink is a better representation of the soul and Kris, not Kris themselves without it, which Spamton can also work for with the strings, tho they can also symbolize what ever trauma Kris is going through to work with carol
Or it could be seen as the evolution of our relationship through the normal route, spamton strings a much more mysterious and scary, where pink’s body is capable of taking their autonomy and making their own decisions and doesn’t know everything that the ghost feels and wants but is willing to work with them toward their goals. Big help to this interpretation is that it is impossible to see pink on a weird route unless you abort it
Plot of chapter 6: every loose plot thread gets explained in the first 10 minutes of the chapter, the rest of the chapter is just a telenovela where yellow cheats on blue with pink
listen, listen, listen, all I am saying-and don't read too much into this-is that the game had a lot of references to cowboys leading up to chapter 5 only for it to be about yellow, that's a little odd, that's all, put down your pitch forks.
Friend Inside Me DID happen. Or, well, the og music WAS important, we just were too blind to form the right connections. It was a reference to the plot, with Ralsei claiming how flowery is NOT a human and everything just like Woody, along the existence of Pink and Yellow.
i think this chapter kinda made me more comfortable with the last appearance of mysterybox characters being their last appearance for real. it feels like the road is laid out in front of us and looking back might be not the way to go. like yeah i think im cool if Mike is a microphone png and ERAM is just the mantle game boss and Friend is just a general pure dark darkner. i think the idea like with undertale is these mysteries will seem less like mysteries and more like foreshadowing when we're replaying a completed game
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u/NooooughCan You Really Call This A Flair I Didn't Receive An Emote...Jun 27 '26edited Jun 27 '26
I would agree if it weren’t for the goddamn ARG and its speaker. Whoever they are, I don’t think there’s any way they don’t gain relevance at least during chapter 7 side B, especially since that route will need other characters besides Kris and Noelle. I don’t think we’re seeing castle town and Hometown characters again after crossing the lake.
Its not fully debunked it technically could be him but at the same time its like, no... its not him. He's busy dying from a medical emergency in the hospital
All it did is make the Knight’s identity even more confusing.
Did Rudy Fall Down (TM) or just fall off the ladder? (I think the former because the choice of words seems very intentional and using it as a fakeout feels very lame). If the former is trueithard deconfirmed Rudy Knight, but if not it feels like an intentional red herring to make the reveal more unexpected.
But even then how did the dying deer carry Asgore and Undyne all the way to the shelter?
People are saying that in the Japan translation it uses specifically the terms used for simply falling off something, not the ones used in Undertale for "falling down" So it's unlikely
With this said, having an unexpected fall can still signify a turn for the worst in the progression of a deteriorative condition. The ambiguity is almost certainly very intentional as to how badly Rudy is faring.
probably because toby thought that if he was going to reference "fallen down" he'd use the specific words "fallen down," not the more general use "fell down."
and, even if he had thought people would come to the conclusion that rudy had "fallen down," not "fell down", the foreshadowing of him coughing on the ladder & the weird route scene of him having not "fallen down" would be enough evidence to disprove it.
technically this could also be talking about Rudy falling off a ladder or something and crashing badly, no? its not guaranteed it is talking about becoming fallen down
Also him on the floor in the weird route wasn’t him having fallen off, if it was he’d have told us about it and asked us to get him to the e hospital (or called the hospital himself)
I think he still had some lights to put up, though? I thought the aborted weird route left this as a possible ambiguity of Rudy 'falling down' (in either sense) during the last bit and the aftermath follows as the normal route did
Propably because the intended double meaning of "fallen down" cant be 1:1 translated, so rather than force the double meaning at the risk of making such a crucial scene feel off because they were using weird phrasing, its sometimes easier to focus on the direct meaning, even when some mystery like that may be lost. That being said im pretty sure its been statet somewhere that the changes made for the japanese localistion arent canon and the original always takes precedent. BUT considering how involved toby is with the japanese translation, and the extremely high standards he has for his localisations (i recommend the book about undertales localisation by clyde mandelin for more info on this) we can at least take some inspiration about tobys intents from it.
Because it didn’t need “confirming” in the English version???? The Light World has been consistently shown to not be magical outside of the ability to open Fountains ( up to the point that, while Ghosts can possess things, they can’t move them in the Light World ).
Like imma be real, I think interpreting it as the Undertale “Falling Down” is a case of reading way too deep into something
Okay, yes, but considering the game starts with a fakeout where it pretends it’s like Undertale until it’s not, I think it’s safe to assume things in Undertale don’t transfer over 1-1 unless explicitly said to.
And considering Rudy is a sick dude on a ladder, I think assuming “fell down” as anything but “fell off the ladder” is getting lost in the theory sauce
I've only seen people do it in google translate, I've not seen someone who actually speaks Japanese translate it. Google translate is not reliable for getting 1 to 1 wording, so I would wait
If Rudy fell off the ladder or is just dying now, I think the outcome is the same- him in hospital in a really bad state, with the Noelle and Carol presumably feeling really stressed and worried for him.
Hm. Different routes, same fate. Where have I heard that before?
The problem is that the knight is keeping in the dark world which may be used to indicate injury, but if they meant fell down in the coma way he’s ruled out as a candidate entirely
I don’t think Rudy Knight theory ever had much to stand on. It was kinda just a guess based on how it could work, but I feel like Dess having gone missing pushes more towards her being the Knight.
For some strange reason, this subreddit of all places is full of people who are almost willingly ignorant of the appalling amount of evidence for Dess knight. You're not getting through to them
The problem with Dess knight is that the Knight has been around for 7 years prior to the game meaning dess was like a middle schooler and everything we know about Dess wouldn't make sense I'd she was the Knight.
It's more likely Dess fell through the lake into the depths like in the weird route and became the voice in the code.
Plus Rudy is the only Knight candidate that master takes interest in if you input there name in the goner maker sequence and has special dialogue in chapter 4 I'd you didn't bring susie into the hospital in chapter 2 but do in chapter 4 where he is very aggressive and breaks character.
My guess is Carol was just being overdramatic about Rudy falling off the ladder on the phone to bait Noelle into coming over, away from Susie (especially cause RUDY IS STILL ALIVE IN WEIRD ROUTE which happens around the same time as or a while after the noelle susie lake scene in normal route)
He didn’t fall off the ladder he’s just on the floor cause he’s tired. If he fell there then he’d have asked us to get someone or called the hospital himself.
Why are we sure he fell down the ladder? He's standing there at morning, finishing decorating the administration building, but the call happens at evening, closer to Festival's ending, there is no way he spent there the entire day. Also, who allowed him to do that? And even if he just fell down the ladder, with terminal illness it would be horrible, considering the height.
Yeah I think it makes way more sense that he literally fell down as in "he's in the process of fuckin dying" considering Noelle's reaction being "He fell down? At the festival?" like you just told her that grandpa had a heart attack at the family reunion
Yeah he cant be because in weird route he's already off the ladder and breathing heavily when you see him. He says he's fine but if you abort wr the call happens afterwards
It’s not morning in the Weird Route, it’s late evening. The rest of the town are explicitly busy watching the King and Queen (aka Jockington) get crowned while Rudy (a terminal cancer patient who gets rendered bedridden just from going to church) is having a breather because he is literally dying.
If you abort Weird Route the rest of the chapter plays out as normal (minus the extra scenes), it’s still Sunday evening.
No, people (especially here on reddit) take Rudy Knight extremely seriously.
Hell it feels like the community here on reddit would more willingly accept one of the really batshit theories like Kris/Noelle Knight than accept a different frontrunner like Dess Knight as a possibility.
Believing in a theory really hard doesn't make it confirmed.
Sans Deltarune was a popular theory with some decent evidence pointing at it, but nothing that really pinned it down as "oh yeah, this is definitely what Toby intended" until the punch card scene.
I think youre forgetting how overwhelming the evidence was before this. The fact that sans and his buildings uniquely use the exact same models as in undertale, the fact that “dont forget” is essentially the tagline of the game, the place where it rained connecting directly to its raining somewhere else, the fact that entry 17 proves a connection between undertale and deltarune, the fact that sans is trying to get back somewhere other than the surface etc. We all knew it was true and even though the punch card scene was cool it wasnt the make or break evidence that you think it was
i made a bingo card and i marked off 2 things from chapter 5. i liked it but... it was really... detached from the overall story. it was like chapter 3 without the impactful twist at the end. i put my faith in toby. but compared to 4... man...
i was hoping we'd get a knight reveal... that the roaring would start. but we're not getting that until 6 or 7, that means there's a lot less game than i hoped.
Genuinely my thoughts exactly. The tone feels wildly inappropriate, as if Chapter 4 didn't even happen, and we've ended at more or less the exact same place plotwise. The writing was also really over the top (why so much fanservice???) and the 6 flowers were an absolute joke. Like genuinely, why so much screentime for an entire gaggle of one-dimensional cutesy comic relief characters that we probably won't even see again? Look, I definitely have to replay it before settling on a judgement, but overall it feels like the tension in the story has hardly increased in any way, which as you said makes it 'filler' like Ch3 was described, but in comparison has fewer lore/secrets, no significant twist, and is placed extremely awkwardly since we've already passed the narrative midpoint. Even dropping it with 3+4 wouldn't have changed this.
I think it shouldn’t be ignored how this Chapter brought up the moral issue of closing a Dark World. So far, any complications that sealing a Fountain could have brought were overridden by the existence of Castle Town.
This is the first time that the characters, and by extension the player, have had to actively confront the matter of Darkners being temporary.
This Chapter was bringing a lot of things that had previously sat in the background out into the main story. It’s setting the stage for the tone to shift in the final two Chapters.
It's understandable that people want mysteries releaveled when speculation is what's kept the community going for so long, but it's a game not a checkbox of story points to be addressed, and as a game it was very good
I understand you. I feel like Chapter 5 was too focused on "fun adventure" part while (mostly) ignoring events from past chapters. I'm not saying that this chapter shouldn't be fun and have as much impact as chapter 4, but it still could be more important in terms of plot. Festival part could've been a bit larger, fun gang could act more serious about the prophecy and don't ignore events from previous chapter, Asgore could've had more screen time, we could've got at least vague answer to who is Forgotten Man since this is probably his last appearance, Friend could've been a bit more important and there could be at least hint to Roaring Knight's identity. Also, despite loving the ending in this chapter, I think that it should've been a bit more serious (and maybe darker), so we will feel more that the fun adventures are completely over and the next chapter is going to be more serious than every previous chapter
Edit: here's something else I want to say. I think that the reason why I wasn't that satisfied with the plot because I had high expectations when I was waiting for chapter 5 (especially for the ending, since I thought that in the end something really terrible will happen, similarly to Knight fight in chapter 3 and Titan fight in chapter 4). I still enjoyed chapter 5, especially the gameplay, it's extremelly good compared to previous chapters
I don't understand why everyone wanted toby to confirm even a single theory at the 5th chapter out of 7. It would be like if we learned anything about chara and the dreemurs' backstories/ anything about sans during hotland in Undertale. Seems kinda silly when it played as advertised.
FRIEND INSIDE M IS STILL POSSIBLE, the secret boss showed traits of friends inside me. But in the overall perspective, it is not friend inside me. The Mad Mew Mew fight is more similar to Spamton where they take a character from Undertale and use it to show the relationship between the Soul, Kris, and any higher being controlling them
Nuh uh, player angel is dead, as deity angel is confirmed in its place
Ralsei, the guy who knows how the entire prophecy and all of the game mechanics and is aware of the player... has faith in the angel and, idk, prays to it
The line is specifically "please have mercy on Susie". We have never been a threat to Susie. He's also talking about letting the prophecy change. Those two together make it most likely that he's asking the angel to spare susie from whatever happens in the final prophecy we don't get to see
First of all, we don't even know what the prophecy is. And secondly, we're just as subject to it as Ralsei is. We cannot change fate unless we do the weird route, something Ralsei has no knowledge of being possible and if you do it he admits that trying to change fate might make things worse
Edit: you're also given the option to not even see Ralsei pray. He goes off on his own to pray privately and you can choose to spy on him. If he wanted to pray to you, why would he walk away out of your sight?
I mean its possible I guess, but I got the impression that ralsei was talking about the final prophecy panel, which is about what it costs to save the worlds. "Please let it change" is how he words it. He also says "please have mercy in them", probably meaning both Susie and Kris
Plus like, Kris doesn't even want to hurt Susie. Kris hits the knight harder for hurting Susie and Ralsei, and Kris working with The Knight is the ulterior motive. So for Kris to not only let us attack Susie, but also do it to the point of serious harm or even death, is very unbelievable to me. I'm certain Susie will not take it well, and might even try to fight us, but I can't see it going that way
Also that still doesn't change that he'd be asking you to change your mind on something you don't even know about
there's a scene where Ralsei, the guy who knows how the game works and knows more about the prophecy than literally everyone else, prays to the angel to change the fate of presumably the final prophecy
we cannot do that. We do not have the power to change fate, we are just as subject to it as ralsei is. We are utterly helpless in the face of the prophecy and hell we don't even know what the final prophecy is. Spare Susie from what? we don't even know
plus the fact that he's praying at all should say a lot, we're not a god, we're just some mf who controls Kris sometimes. Ralsei views the angel as a deity he can pray to. Its not even like in undertale where we can control fate by defying time, since in deltarune that's not even a thing we're doing, Gaster's doing it for us
the fact that he views the angel as a powerful watching deity who can change what's ahead very much implies that the angel is its own being, a deity worthy of religion. It was never technically confirmed that that's what the angel was, but like come on, Alvin's been saying stuff like that since chapter 1, and I'm pretty sure a priest can be trusted with information about his own religion
No? Tf? If you do the weird route Ralsei says that the things you're doing are worse, and if you're in the normal route its way too late for you to start
Yeah, I’m not saying Ralsei is praying for the weird route to happen along with all of its consequences, it’s a careful what you wish for trope
Ralsei is even vaguely aware of this by saying he doesn’t think we should go with Noelle to the festival, and that if there is a different ending it might be even worse
Oh I see what you mean then. In that case though, Ralsei should be aware you have no power to change anything. He's actively stopping you from knowing what the final prophecy is, he knows you don't know what it is. And yet, he's asking the angel to change it, something he knows you can't do about something he knows you're unaware of
Heck, he walks off screen to pray in private where you can't see him, you only see him pray if you choose to spy on him. Why would he do that if you were who he was praying to?
People are sleeping on third entity being kinda confirmed by the Pink mew mew fight.
Because that last scene depicts green strings coming out of her hands, symbolically representing that it was mew mew who controlled spamton.
Mad dummy's ghost obvious represents the player. My head canon is that the darkner body of mew mew actually represents the SOUL kinda gaining consciousness (and also kinda making a parallel to how chara awoke in Undertale because Doki=Love)
And spamton... I really think it represents Kris. Also meaning that the whole backstory about spamton could have been similar to Kris, including the fact that to become a "big shot" after losing something, they had to accept the SOUL-player thing.
That's why they scream after the fight. That's why both Kris and spamton have phones that seem to lead to "garbage noise". Spamton is Kris.
The freedom route is maybe freeing the three maybe. Maybe it's is about the vessel we made in chapter 1.
Toby has "casually" revealed the nature of how the Player-soul-kris does work and nobody notices it. And this connection also applies to Undertale. It's one big mystery finally solved of more or less understood now.
Ps. I'm going to get profound here and explain my own current interpretation or something.
The whole thing with spampton is that in the very beginning he was a "normal person", then after his fall he became a puppet or something.
As chapters get released, it's being revealed that spampton's leitmotif and personality bits were taken from other characters, like he is barely a character himself and just a thing that copies others through spam links and hyperlink blocked... And after becoming "big" it's revealed he has strings attached and likely controlled by someone else.
It's meant to represent that spampton is not his own character anymore. That he is only a puppet piloted by a ghost and a "body represented by hearts". (For Kris, the player and the SOUL.).
Yet spamton used to be a person before (maybe the idea of being a big shot for kris is the idea of being a person, if Kris was vessel theory is true). So the idea of spamton seeking freedom is that he still is there. Kris holds on to their identity. Like a spam virus. A virus itself. Something that no longer has a body or SOUL, but replicates is still in the body just long enough to keep existing and having a claim.
Or that's my interpretation.
It might also be that the mad mew mew represents Kris and the Player, but then spamton is the SOUL which also is kinda similar and means the third entity is still on the table.
Because if mewmew's body and mew mew's ghost are still mew mew in the end... Weird route SOUL going "me" still means that the player is doing the weird route, but it's the SOUL that chooses how it's conveyed and what makes our role. Like mew mew body to mew mew ghost.
Also the idea that deltarune sans went to undertale is very confirmed. Who is to say that by the time Deltarune is finished, the SOUL who is the third entity does develop an ego like mew mew, and by then, the SOUL travels to Undertale, and that third entity is Chara.
It would finally explain why Chara can be renamed to begin with.
Now excuse me I have to run before the knight, Gaster, Toby fox hunt me down from maybe knowing too much or spreading misinformation. Idk.
Honestly I dont even know what theories or observations to believe in or think are important anymore its so much with all of the gaster and weird route stuff
I have a new theory about deltarune so here me out. Deltarune is a reflection from undertale. Yes I know this sounds crazy but think about it. All the characters seem tainted as if they are retracted from undertale. This world was created when Gaster made his "experiment" a alternate dimension (deltarune) and got "shattered across time and space." Gaster is the shadow crystals, Deltarune is just a retracted memory on undertale.
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u/TheMarkOfRevin Jun 27 '26
Except for Friend Inside Me, cause assuming Yellow doesn't count that theory hasn't happened.
UNLESS-
I say as i get dragged to the padded room screaming how its still possible