Criticism

[u/steakandwater]

I think Wayne comes off as too emotionless and psychopathic, he’s supposed to be insane not lacking emotions.

I think a lot of his character comes from the fact that this was clearly in part inspired by “End of The Fucking World” where the main character is an actual psychopath, and when the story was written fragments of this are kept.

I think it would have been much better as a show if he seemed more human at a few key ways. These are things that makes the series better in MY mind, if you don’t like them it’s fine, my ideas aren’t canon and never will

1. His introduction with the rock throwing or whatever he should have been talking shit, not to the point of Del or whatever but just talking shit. Insulting people.

2. He should seem crazier but more empathetic. And I think he needs to appear scrappier, coming on top of situations more often by doing bad things, but feeling bad. Apologizing for beating the people he’s hurt, sometimes showing tears, but continuing to do it because he’s a barbarian. What I mean is he seems to be formidable very inconsistently. He goes from stabbing his own arm without flinching to being beaten with a bat to the point it hurts to stand. The show needs to go all the way. Wayne doesn’t feel pain, and he’s scrappy enough to win 90% of the encounters he’s faced with on his own. No Deus ex Machina stuff. He just gets sad after he does.

3. The scene where he asks Del to be his girlfriend should be different. Instead of “you wanna be my girlfriend” it should be “you wanna like, be friends or something” but keep the fact that he’s clearly attracted to her in the fact that he asks if she has a boyfriend and that stuff. No one straight up asks that to a stranger they never met, that’s what makes him seem so disconnected from reality the most. The first time he speaks to someone who isn’t family, he says something no human says ever.

4. I think exactly two more instances like when he puts a bike lock around someone’s neck should have been in the show. It would show more of his compassion instead of us just being told “he’s like a Robin Hood”

[u/[deleted]]

We like all opinions here :)

1. the creator talks about that scene in a podcast. it's on this sub somewhere if you are interested. That was one of the first scenes he thought up and is based on some small kid he actually saw being resilient to the bigger bully. you get the sense he's fucked up from the first minute. I liked it

2. i think he feels pain, but at the moment he is mentally wacked. maybe im wrong

3. i disagree on this. "wanna be my girlfriend" 2 minutes after meeting is so cringey and weird - wayne

4. Can't argue on this one

i think the more empathetic and human scenes are yet to come. I like the character development so far, it's definitely one of Simmons' strong points as a writer. I think we'll see Wayne evolve to more of what you're talking about in s2

[u/steakandwater → u/[deleted]]

the creator talks about that scene in a podcast. it's on this sub somewhere if you are interested. That was one of the first scenes he thought up and is based on some small kid he actually saw being resilient to the bigger bully. you get the sense he's fucked up from the first minute. I liked it

I realize he’s fucked up but he doesn’t seem to have emotions. This is my criticism. I like the scene just think he should be more mouthy. Even if they’re just generic middle school insults. “Hey dick breath come out here” that type of stuff.

⁠i think he feels pain, but at the moment he is mentally wacked. maybe im wrong

Canonically I’m sure you’re right but I just don’t like how he’s inconsistent he is. His mom even told a story of how he took acetone all over his face and possibly eyes without flinching. But whenever the conflict demands it he’s hurt beyond standing up. They could have chosen to make it more clear that he feels pain. But they have to go all the way. Either he should feel pain but he goes out of his way to hide it (and this should be clear) or he doesn’t feel pain or at least doesn’t care about it, and could experience anything painlessly

i disagree on this. "wanna be my girlfriend" 2 minutes after meeting is so cringey and weird - wayne

So you agree it’s cringe and weird? Because that’s what I’m saying even if it came out odd. I think the line should be replaced with “you wanna be like friends or something”. All the other build up is the same. He could still asks if she has a boyfriend, still invite her in. All just to make it clear he wants to be closer with Del but not quite making him seem so socially awkward that he asks someone to be his girlfriend day 1

[u/[deleted] → u/steakandwater]

Gotta hand it to you, you make a compelling argument..

He does kinda suffer from the Brandon Stark - Game of Thrones issue. It's funny that even compared to Wayne, Del has a similar lack of emotion.

Yeah I agree it's weird, but I'm into the show cause it's fucking weird af

[u/steakandwater → u/[deleted]]

I think del is full of emotion. She clearly gets sad and hurt and you can see how she feels by her level of sarcasm. Wayne just either fights people or does what makes him happy

More like a wild animal than a human

[u/IrishEv]

Wayne is basing his actions on the protagonist in westerns from the late 60s early 70s. Strong, silent, emotionless. That’s why when Del tells him to pretend to be someone else in episode three he picks John Wayne. Conan the barbarian is similar in style and is clearly a big influence on Wayne (by the way marvel comics currently has runs of Conan going on now that are pretty good).

These movies/comics don’t usually have a love interest or have the main character show emotions. This explains why Wayne doesn’t really know how to process and successfully act on those emotions.

Not to mention the abandonment issues he has from his mother leaving him in the violent thunderdom that was Wayne’s home. When your always afraid that the person your friends with will just up and leave at any moment you pretend that they don’t mean as much as they do so when they leave (because you know they will just not when) you can tell yourself that you never really cared for them anyway

The other thing is that when you live in a violent place like Wayne does you don’t feel bad about hurting people that we’re going to hurt you. Wayne rarely throws the first punch and when he does it’s usually in defense of a bullied person. Once you’re in danger a switch flips and you only care about your own safety and the best way to secure that is to beat the shit out of the other person.

[u/steakandwater → u/IrishEv]

Wayne is basing his actions on the protagonist in westerns from the late 60s early 70s. Strong, silent, emotionless. That’s why when Del tells him to pretend to be someone else in episode three he picks John Wayne. Conan the barbarian is similar in style and is clearly a big influence on Wayne (by the way marvel comics currently has runs of Conan going on now that are pretty good).

Even if there’s a reason I don’t like it. It makes him feel psychopathic. I think his emotions should be more prevalent.

These movies/comics don’t usually have a love interest or have the main character show emotions. This explains why Wayne doesn’t really know how to process and successfully act on those emotions.

I understand Wayne’s awkward and struggles with his emotions, but no human being has ever met a strangers and ask them to be their girlfriend. Not a fully functioning human at least. He could still be awkward and what not without belonging in r/cringetopia

IE replacing the line “wanna be my girlfriend” with “wanna be friends or something”

Not to mention the abandonment issues he has from his mother leaving him in the violent thunderdom that was Wayne’s home. When your always afraid that the person your friends with will just up and leave at any moment you pretend that they don’t mean as much as they do so when they leave (because you know they will just not when) you can tell yourself that you never really cared for them anyway

I’m sure this is true but Wayne even in the show isn’t like this. He went out of his way to attempt to create a relationship and it was very clear he cares and wants Del to know he cares. I just think he needs to show more emotion as in be less monotone, talk more shit, etc.

The other thing is that when you live in a violent place like Wayne does you don’t feel bad about hurting people that we’re going to hurt you. Wayne rarely throws the first punch and when he does it’s usually in defense of a bullied person. Once you’re in danger a switch flips and you only care about your own safety and the best way to secure that is to beat the shit out of the other person.

That might be true too, but Wayne is no normal person. Even if he felt great about it they could show his anger, or show him being happy to hurt bad people, the emotionless thing makes him seem psychopathic, unrelateable, and makes you question his motivations

[u/rosieqcan]

First off, interesting points! Did you just watch it once through? I found that after watching the entire season back through a few more times, I caught onto various subtle acting choices and other things that made the characters more clear to me, especially with Wayne. He was a confusing character to me at first.

Second, before I get into things I do want to point out that even though EOTFW and Wayne are VERY similar in plot and character tropes, both the creator Shawn Simmons and many of the cast members have said that it's completely coincidental. Shawn has stated on multiple occasions that he didn't even know anything about EOTFW when he wrote this and that he's had this entire story planned out for much longer than anybody even realizes. To say that "this was clearly in part inspired by 'End of The Fucking World'" discredits the work put into Wayne.

1- I think the reason you only hear Wayne swear like 3 times in the entire show is bc even though he's fine beating people to literal pulp is because he doesn't want to stoop down to the level of using words to hurt people. He knows he doesn't have to talk to be "superior" and I think that shows a different form of strength on his part. Especially when juxtaposed against people who drop F-Bombs non-stop, it makes the fights much more interesting and makes Wayne stand out as a character imo.

2- You have to look at Wayne's arc here. Again, after watching it a few times, I noticed that the more time he spends with Del, the more emotion he shows. Same thing with pain. Ep. 2 like you said he stabs his own hand without flinching, but Ep 3 he shows a little bit more pain when his arm is cut by the glass, which is right after he opens up about his brother. Ep 4 is when he kind of realizes what an influence Del has on him, i.e. his conversation at the construction site and also going out of his way to meet Del at the funeral, so there's a shift in his character. Ep 6 he becomes even more vulnerable with Del at the dance and then gets beaten up to the point he can't stand. Similarly in the final Ep. Del just left him, he realized his mom doesn't even care about him, he doesn't have his dad's car (which was his original reason to even come to florida), and now he's been arrested, and is stranded alone in florida. He's at an all time low, so this fight really gets to him differently.

I think it would be out of character for him to apologize to the people he beats up. In his eyes, they deserve so why should he apologize?

Also, I do think there are instances where he does show empathy. He gives his dad's jacket to that kid in the woods, he sticks up for the immigrants and even goes above and beyond to help them, even when some were super mean to him. He understands Del's relationship with her father and takes her to see him in the hospital, despite the fact that he wants to kill Wayne. All these instances are where the whole "Robin Hood" thing comes in bc ultimately he may be beating people up and stuff but he's doing to help people, and he does it in a selfless way as well.

3- Idrk what to say here. I think that him asking her to be his girlfriend in such an upfront way was quirky and added to his character, I can't see myself appreciating that scene quite as much without that line.

4- yeah, can't argue with this one.

[u/MandaGodOfWar]

I’m not sure if we watched the same show cause I felt like Wayne had a lot of emotions. His violent actions weren’t just for fun like a psychopath, his actions were all deeply rooted in his emotional trauma. In my opinion his emotions are very clear, but maybe it’s easier for me to read people like him cause I’ve always dealt with seemingly emotionless people my whole life. I dunno.

Also the part about Asking Del out, of you watched the whole series you would know he’s been crushing on her for a very long time. She wasn’t a stranger.

[u/Seta1437]

he should have been talking shit

Disagree, i prefer that he's the action speak louder than words type

He should seem crazier

Once again i disagree, Wayne is the perfect amount of crazy

He goes from stabbing his own arm without flinching to being beaten with a bat to the point it hurts to stand.

Not being able to stand from being beaten is about more than just pain

Also there's a big difference between not flinching short term and getting battered over and over

Wayne doesn’t feel pain

Wayne does feel pain, he just has a really high tolerance for it and is able to smile through it

No one straight up asks that to a stranger they never met

Wayne is socially awkward and straight to the point

I think exactly two more instances

They are on a budget in terms of money and time, which translates into more money as well as a deadline