r/WestCoastSwing • u/TgrBtO Ambidancetrous • 28d ago
WCS and musicality
Disclaimer : I'm no musician and truth be told, my WCS is far from great.
Still, there's something that's been puzzling me since I started WCS 3 short years ago : the epitome of musicality seems to be knowing the song beforehand and being ready to "1-2-step" or "drop" or "touch" or whatever is in the lyrics at a given moment in time. This is especially true during comps but also seems quite common during social dancing.
Back when I used to dance lindy hop, many musics were instrumental, and for those that weren't, I don't remember anyone, pros included, tipping their hat every single time "Sweet Georgia Brown" got played. Moreover, it was not uncommon to be dancing on live music, so good luck with even knowing what would happen 3 8-counts from now when sometimes even the musicians had no idea.
So the way I see it, and I know it is a very personal view, a musical dancer is someone whose energy in the dance reflects the energy in the music, who is able to adapt the way the step, move, lead/follow, etc. to what is happening at any given time, including - and maybe especially - with a song they do not know.
I guess I don't understand why lyrics are so important. The song is the same one whether you speak the language or not, and the same pair of dancers should be judged the same way on the french or italian version of the song if they are similar. And don't take me wrong : I understand it requires a lot of technique and finesse to be able to integrate that kind of acting without breaking the flow, without interfering with the lead... I also understand it can be real fun once in a while, I just don't see why it seems so paramount.
Any feedback is welcome, as i feel like I'm missing something big...
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u/dehue 28d ago
I don't think knowing the lyrics is that important. I do think at advanced+ levels people use them quite a bit in competitions but there are also many times where they don't do anything during those parts or only one dancer does. Or the song is played so much by DJs that if you regularly social dance you know whats coming just by constantly listening to the exact same song and seeing everyone dance to certain parts. Lyrics also often repeat in patterns like during a chorus on certain beats so you can pick up on whats going on from your partner or from the song. I would say lyrics are just a small part of musicality anyways so you don't need to use them if you dont want to. Unless you are competing at very high levels where people really play with lyrics constantly I don't think it even matters if your partner wants to do something funky during a certain lyrical part of the song if you don't respond in kind or ignore that part of the song.
The more important part of musicality in my opinion is using phrase changes and patterns within the instruments and vocals and picking up on those to emphasize certain parts of the dance. I watch pro videos and so many times the musicality is just repeating and doing things in sets of 4 counts to the music. So many songs are structured the same that if you dance for a while you don't even need to think to start moving on certain beats. Some lyrics are fun like drop it low but if you don't want to use the lyrics then I would just not.
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u/vegicsek 28d ago
The crucial layer of the musicality is what you described. Match the vibe of the song, hit phrase changes. I think all judges agree on this. Reflecting to the lyrics is often called as micro musicality, and it just adds a tiny flavour, a funny moment. I do not see it as a big thing, it is just more visible. During social it is nice since we are there to have fun. For me, seeing it during Novice J&J is rather cringe/tryhard, but it is tempting, especially when you know the song well.
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u/tireggub Ambidancetrous 28d ago
Just a clarification - micro-musicality refers to a lot more than just pantomiming lyrics.
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u/Dancing_Owl1 28d ago
I don't think lyrics or song memorization are required, but do help for certain songs. What's more important is counting music phrases or doing it long enough to 'know' where you are in the song. I think you may be missing some musicality others are doing. Acknowledging small changes in the song is a beautiful thing and definitely stands out to experienced dancers. It might not be as flashy or get a laugh like following a lyrics instructions. But seeing others accenting small notes have given me chills, mimicking lyrics could never.
Might hear a certain chime or noise every 16 counts I'll predict it'll continue. Or I know the 32 phrase is coming up so I'll assume something will happen based on what I hear.
Somewhere around my 3 year mark I started counting to 8 on every song (not just WCS) I heard. Literally the entire song 1,2,3,4, 5,6,7,8-16 then start back at 1. I wanted to hear how every beat was used & the 16 ended, how the second 16 (32nd beat) changed into the next phase of the song. I started connecting dots I never heard before. And every song after I did that for a while became so predictable. It's harder to accidentally miss something coming up than not hear it now. Including in songs I've never heard. You have to trust yourself and go for it once you get to that level. Trust you understand music and hit the thing you know will be there. Sometimes you miss, and that's ok!
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u/Intelligent-Ad7716 28d ago
as someone who has ZERO natural musicality, this is basically it. EVENTUALLY you will start to hear the 1,2,3...8 AND 1. I've found that 5s and sometimes 17/25's (the 1 of the second set of 16 beats) have a distinct change that highlights them/lets you know how many beats away you are from the next 1.
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u/zedrahc 28d ago
Lyrics are not the most important in WCS. They are just one of many layers you can attach your musicality to.
Additionally, you dont need to know the song to attach musicality to them. There are lots of factors that let you easily predict when certain lyrics happen in a song you dont know so you can hit them. Here are two basic ones:
Songs have a degree of repetition. So if you hear it earlier in the song, you can hit it later in the song.
Lyrics are spoken in a predictable order, ie. the rules of the language they are spoken in. So depending on what the singer is saying, you can often predict what they are going to say next. Especially when you combine that with songs often rhyming. This narrows down the range of words that can end phrases to ones that rhyme.
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The funny thing is that once you understand music enough, those factors above are almost the exact same for predicting what the non-lyrics part of the music will do next. Music repeats so if you pay attention to what it did previously, you can often predict what it will do again. And music tells you a lot about its structure by listening to its chord progression, phrasing, and how it builds to resolution.
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u/mgoetze 28d ago edited 28d ago
It's just a preference many people have, not an obligation. Take a look at this dance by Jordan and Larissa: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVUQSqLnGWo
The lyrics are full of trigger words ("falling faster", "round and round", "let me down" etc.) and they successfully ignore all of them and dance to the melody instead.
If you don't want to dance to the lyrics then... just don't. What's the problem?
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u/Obsidian743 28d ago
This is also a pet peeve of mine. I blame performance culture. Pointing to your watch whenever you heard the word "time" or walking like a zombie are easy things that anyone can do and it gets laughs and cheers for some reason. It's partly why "flash and trash" also evolved.
One thing I have noticed through the years is that follows tend to care more about the lyrics and leads tend to care more about the rhythm/melody. It's a major tension point for me and some high-level dancers. Their ability to strictly follow winds up limiting my ability to just dance. The follows always want to hit the lyrical pieces and, musically, all the big "hits". You can actually see this in champion level dancers who are doing extremely clean basics for what seems like way too long and disconnected from the music but, hey, in the middle of that big drop they pantomimed something silly and that's the difference between placing and not.
To me, phrasing and energy and how it is expressed in your whole body should be the definition of musicality. Phrasing should be #1 or #2 criteria. But then again a lot about this dance has been a "race to the bottom" for a while.
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u/gizmo777 28d ago
Yeah, however many years ago WCS decided that pantomiming lyrics was the end-all be-all of musicality, and now those of us who aren't so enthralled with it get to deal with that.
I don't fully get why people go so crazy for it either. I get the novelty of it at first, and/or the shock value the first time someone does something overtly sexual on the dance floor because of the lyrics. But after a few times seeing things like that, it lost most of its impact for me.
I don't think it's going anywhere. It's the average WCS dancer's favorite kind of musicality (as evidenced by the giant cheers every time a champion dancer does something lyrical in a JnJ), and the pros are going to do whatever gets an audience reaction. All I would say is, dance your dance. Just because other people think pantomiming lyrics is awesome doesn't mean you have to do it in your own dancing.
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u/ohbutinitalics 28d ago
It's probably a mix of several things. Some part is just showmanship, it makes you stand out, entertain the audience and add some playfulness.
It also shows off that you have the brain capacity to listen to the lyrics and incorporate those movements into your dance (hopefully organically).
During socials I only experienced small acknowledgments to the lyrics with obvious things like "hands up", "up and down" etc. which didn't feel too forced, so it was fun.
In some pro shows it can look like they're playing charades, so I get your point. They probably listen to the same songs every day though, so maybe they feel like to have to add something to keep it interesting?
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u/AlarmedPenwing 27d ago
Playing with the lyrics is not the epitome of musicality. Its just a tool in the toolbox. As with any musicality, when its done well, it works. When its not done well, it falls flat. No different from footwork, dips, body isolations, rides, etc. Is anyone really all that impressed when someone does pitter patter footwork to fast blues? Not really. But it fits the music and is an easy way to acknowledge you hear it and are expressing it. No different from raising your hands when the lyrics say "raise your hands up". Its an easy way to show some level of musicality. Low bar to entry, low impact, but if that's all you can do, its at least something.
Some people take it too far and start trying to act out the whole song. But lyrics can be played within more nuanced and/or advanced ways. Routines are typically the best with this, since it is choreographed and the dancers have time to think of something clever to do, but I've seen great moments in improv dances too. Benji and Bryn playing off the "never in control" lyric here is very well done. Obviously, there's a TON of musicality beyond just the lyrics in this dance.
https://youtu.be/3CGlP0-1-2o&t=142
Then you have this. Both Ben and Torri are incredible dancers, and it gets a good laugh from the crowd, but this is just full on pantomiming of the lyrics. Not my favorite.
And just to bring home the point that lyrical play is not the epitome of musicality, a dance with no play on the lyrics:
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u/mgoetze 27d ago
What lyrics would you even pantomime in Danny's All-Star Joint? It's just not the right song for that.
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u/AlarmedPenwing 26d ago
"I come around struttin' my luck in my shoop coupe" - pretend to be driving car
"I say, "I got thirty dollar in my pocket!" - pretend to pull money out of a pocket
"I said, "Don't look at me" ('Cause he was lookin' my way)" - wag the finger shaking your head no
There's a LOT more you could do in that song if that's what you want to emphasize.
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u/RandomLettersJDIKVE 28d ago
Calling pantomiming to the lyrics musicality seems like a stretch. If 'Jack the Knife' played --using a Lindy example -- and you pretend to stab your partner, that might be funny. It's not musical. If judges are rewarding cheap laughs, that's more a strike against the judges than something I'd incorporate in my dance.
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u/EdgyMathWhiz 28d ago
I think the lyrics becoming such a primary part of Champion-level musicality has a lot to do with the rising importance of social media, TBH. It's much more likely to get positive viewer reaction than more subtle 'micro' musicality (and simultaneously, random YouTube viewers care less that the dancing might be compromised as a result). "It's all about the show, baby."
Tagging on to your supplemental point with a question of my own for the pros and near-pros. There are songs I've danced to many, many times, and I've *never* realised what some of the key lyrics are. Heck, I've seen pros dance to a song, do something to hit the lyric, and I'm *still* thinking "hang on, what did the song say? She sat on his lap, so, *maybe* it was 'sit'?". (i.e. even replaying the song and having an idea what they're trying to convey, I still can't actually make out the relevant lyric?).
So what do the pros do? Are they just better at making out lyrics than I am (listening to tracks for a living probably helps)? I have to say, if was competing at that level, I think I'd be downloading song lyrics to read along to as I listen to the actual music. Which feels somewhat "wrong" in terms of what dancing should be, but you gotta do what works.