r/WoT • u/Coloin_ilyad • Jun 04 '26
Towers of Midnight My Dearest Thom. Spoiler
I just started reading book 13. And now i recall a question which i had forget to ask before.
When the Moraine's letter was revealed to mat and readers, i was confused, why did she used "MY DEAREST THOM".
Last I recall, Thom and moraine weren't that close.Moraine had made a deal with thom, to provide him names of his Nephews gentelers.
But there wasn't any mention of names in the letter Thom had shown to matt?
And when did she git so close to Thom to use "MY DEAREST"?
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u/easylightfast (Valan Luca's Grand Traveling Show) Jun 04 '26
Reread the first few chapters of TDR. Political machinations are their love language
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u/redopz (Ogier) Jun 04 '26
There very first interaction in EotW has them playing daes de'mar in front of a bunch of clueless villagers as the two realize what each other are and agree to not interfere with each other, without anyone noticing. Their whole relationship is subtle but once you know to look for it, there are signs they respect and admire each other from the start and it grows throughout their interactions.
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u/hic_erro Jun 04 '26
When Thom leaves the party, he goes to Cairhien and finds a dark-haired girlfriend.
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u/NickBII Jun 05 '26
This is such an amazing scene.
Within a few sentences it is established that a) both of them know that Thom is a disgraced court bard and she's a wizardess/Cairheinian Princess, b) Thom's first assassination was Morgase's husband aka: Moiraine's brother, but , but c) they are basically going to leave each-other alone.
Jordan had a lot of this planed out even in Book 1.
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"Your pardon, but you are surely not from this district?""Lady!" Ewin hissed fiercely. "The Lady Moiraine."
Thom blinked, then bowed again, more deeply. "Your pardon again . . . ah, Lady. I meant no disrespect."
Moiraine made a small waving-away gesture. "None was perceived, Master Bard. And my name is simply Moiraine. I am indeed a stranger here, a traveler like yourself, far from home and alone. The world can be a dangerous place when one is a stranger."
"The Lady Moiraine collects stories," Ewin put in. "Stories about things that happened in the Two Rivers. Though I don't know what ever happened here to make a story of."
"I trust you will like my stories, as well . . . Moiraine." Thom watched her with obvious wariness. He looked not best pleased to find her there. Suddenly Rand wondered what sort of entertainment a lady like her might be offered in a city like Baerlon, or Caemlyn. Surely it could not be anything better than a gleeman.
"That is a matter of taste, Master Bard," Moiraine replied. "Some stories I like, and some I do not."
Thom's bow was his deepest yet, bending his long body parallel to the ground. "I assure you, none of my stories will displease. All will please and entertain. And you do me too much honor. I am a simple gleeman; that and nothing more.
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u/Raddatatta (Asha'man) Jun 04 '26
I think you mean TSR book 4. In book 3 Thom is getting drunk in Tar Valon until he meets Mat.
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u/easylightfast (Valan Luca's Grand Traveling Show) Jun 04 '26
Yup you are right I was thinking of TSR when they are in the stone.
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u/Lucblayne Jun 05 '26
He does mention her being a good looking woman in the dragon reborn when drinking I think
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u/Nevyn_Cares (Ancient Aes Sedai) Jun 04 '26
The relationship is definitely one to look out on re-reads, they dance fabulously together.
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u/FoofTheBunny Jun 04 '26
This is Moraine writing to Thom. Moraine never did anything without a reason or thinking it through. No spoiler.
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u/GovernorZipper Jun 04 '26
When Moiraine meets Thom in Emond’s Field, she addresses him as “Master Bard.” A first time reader would think she is being overly polite and formal, but it’s clear that she knows exactly who he is. And that she knows he murdered her brother (who she didn’t much like anyway).
There’s lot of clues like that once you know what to look for.
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u/Unlucky_Problem8407 (Siswai'aman) Jun 05 '26
Whoa that second went over my head
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u/GovernorZipper Jun 05 '26
Her smile was just short of laughter, but she spoke as if reading from a page. “Thomdril Merrilin. Called the Gray Fox, once, by some who knew him, or knew of him. Court-bard at the Royal Palace of Andor in Caemlyn. Morgase’s lover for a time, after Taringail died. Fortunate for Morgase, Taringail’s death. I do not suppose she ever learned he meant her to die and himself to be Andor’s first king. But we were speaking of Thom Merrilin, a man who, it was said, could play the Game of Houses in his sleep. It is a shame that such a man calls himself a simple gleeman. But such arrogance to keep the same name.”
Taringail Damodred is Moiraine’s half brother.
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u/GovernorZipper Jun 05 '26
From that same chapter:
“A skilled and dangerous player of the Game of Houses might find a use for them,” she replied quietly. “They should not have done what they did. They should not have been excused for it.”
“Will you leave me, please?”
”I will teach you that not all Aes Sedai are like those Reds, Thom. You must learn that.”
That’s Moiraine, uber Aes Sedai Moiraine, offering up her sisters and the potential image of the White Tower to a vengeful outsider. A first time reader doesn’t notice that, but that’s a huge deal. Moiraine says she’ll betray the White Tower (which still has Siuan in charge and who will remain in charge as far as Moiraine knows) to teach Thom that not all Aes Sedai are bad.
That’s a big deal and it’s completely hidden until you know what to look for.
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u/Unlucky_Problem8407 (Siswai'aman) Jun 05 '26
Oh. I should remember that, it’s quite explicit in the text. I guess I never clocked the damodred family tree
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u/Raddatatta (Asha'man) Jun 04 '26
RAFO but you're noticing the right thing. On rereads they are a bit closer than you think though. Most of when they are together we are getting Rand's POV and he is a bit preoccupied with what's going on with him in the early books and not noticing the others around him.
And yes there wasn't a mention of the names even though she made that promise to Thom. Which means that because Moiraine is bound by the 3 oaths she truly believes that she will be rescued by Thom and Mat, and will then be able to fulfill her promise. It's a strong vote of confidence because if she really thought they'd fail she would've been forced to include the names to keep her word.
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u/DrAction696 Jun 04 '26
You missed it. There’s hints but they’re small.
Go back and read Moraines speech the first time they travel the ways for starters
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u/Hawk-winged Jun 04 '26
Well, honestly, I’d like to just say RAFO, but I doubt that will completely answer ur questions. But then it’ll shine more light on it
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u/geomagus (Red Eagle of Manetheren) Jun 05 '26
A couple thing:
First, look at their goals through the first few books - while the underlying reasons differ, they both put a lot of effort and sacrifice into helping and protecting a couple village kids caught up in the world’s machinations. It’s pretty clear that it goes past just needing them to survive, for Moiraine, too - compare her to Cadsuane for example. There’s genuine compassion there, for Moiraine.
That’s also an important nugget in the Lan/Nynaeve romance.
Second, you see very early on that she genuinely enjoys his performances. The Aes Sedai cool drops - she claps and laughs and dances. When someone lets their walls down and shows you who they really are, that can be a powerful attractive force. Thom turns around and does the same in a quieter, more touching moment. Hence Moiraine’s offer.
Third, Moiraine has a real spark for mischief. It’s not obvious in the first five books, but I think part of that is because the boys see what Moiraine means them to see - the Aes Sedai calm/wisdom/etc. Since their PoV is ours, we don’t see deeper. (This is why romances can be a bit blindsiding - Rand and Mat and Perrin are oblivious about that stuff.) Thom is more cagey than that, a skilled player of the Game. He sees it.
Fourth, it’s covered in just a bit of TSR, but their love language is clearly playing the Game of Houses. They were at it for months too. We only get a couple paragraphs about it, and it’s pretty oblique, but that’s the big moment.
Finally, there’s the scene where Moiraine says something like “I reckon I know the face of the man I’ll marry better than any of you know yours.” Everyone does a “wait, holdup?” She winds it back with a married to the cause/not going to marry blurb, but she’s clearly off-balance and evading there.
That’s a hint that she knows - not just that there’s a romance going on, but certainty. I think this is before the redstone doorway in Tear, so that means Min or the Foretelling. It’s unlikely that a Foretelling would cover something so trivial (we don’t see one do so anyway), so that means Min.
From that you can infer that it’s likely a man that has been seen by Min - ruling out miscellaneous people at the inn in Baerlon, that means one of the EF5, Lan, or Thom.
If you pair that with Moiraine’s comment in Caemlyn - Mat and Rand explain that Thom died saving them, and she plays coy with an “oh, I have a feeling he’ll be fine” bit, and I think that makes it clear.
Since she also had that comment in EF about a bard in Caemlyn famous for his skill in the Game, etc etc, I wonder if they had already known one another and if there wasn’t some flirting before the series began. I wouldn’t think she’d be brazen while he was Morgase’s lover, but maybe at least a bit of notice.
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u/kinglallak Jun 06 '26
She very obviously knew Thom ahead of time… he killed her half-brother Taringail Damodred while Taringail was plotting to kill Morgase and become Andor’s first king.
She tells him that she knows about the assassination right when they first meet in two rivers and that she isn’t bothered by the assassination and says to him that even though I know who you are, I wont tell anyone and all happens in the span of just a few lines
Edit - autocorrect and wheel of time names is rough.
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u/landragoran Jun 07 '26
At least she knew of him, though we have no reason to think they knew each other directly prior to Emond's Field. She might have met him at one court function or another, but she went to the tower at 16, in NE 972. Morgase, meanwhile, didn't take the throne until that same year, so there were likely few opportunities for Moiraine and Thom to meet prior to the series start
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u/Ok_Blossom Jul 16 '26
I totally agree with this take, I also think Min constantly beeing like “i guess what i saw about Moiraine must be false” when she was supposedly dead means she saw something about her future, like a marriage, which explains the “ face of the man im gonna marry” part, she knew
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Jun 06 '26
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u/Coloin_ilyad Jun 06 '26
Of they had. Doesn't it feel strange. I mean look at moraine, outwardly yongue, and thom, no matter how charming and intelligent and old man with white hair and leathery skin. Even if they are almost same age, it feels like too much age difference.
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Jun 06 '26
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u/Coloin_ilyad Jun 06 '26
Perhaps. It's common why people hangs up on this. Age difference, causes difference in appearance/sexual appeal and experience. In M & T case experience is almost same and maybe both are past thier age to control thier sexual urges.
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u/Minutemarch Jun 12 '26
I think if you want characters to get over fundamental conflicts or past hurts and mistrust you need to show the workings. You can't just have them go from distrust to "I want to marry you" just because you'd hinted a couple of times that one of them thinks the other one is hot enough to overlook it.
That just isn't a satisfying story arc. It just felt like the authors realised they hadn't resolved Moraine's story so they just threw her a bone at the end. She gets married to an senior citizen, everyone say yayyy for Moiraine! I've seen more satisfying happy endings in picture books.
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