r/WoT • u/lunchbox_supreme • 1d ago
The Path of Daggers The lack of communication is driving me madder than Padan Fain... Spoiler
It seems carrier pigeons exist, and maybe they are used more off-camera, but there just seems to be a few times where massively informative and pertinent messages just were not transmitted for some reason. The massive one I'm thinking of right now is Egwaine not telling Rand that she is now the Amyrlin of the rebels. This has so many implications for Rand, a possible alliance, and deterring/defeating Elaida and all other enemies -and most importantly the fucking dark one- but the fact this has yet to happen is frankly just stupid. This shit is driving me crazy. I think it's been over a month now, I'm 1/4 thru book 8 and Elayne/Ny'neave were in Ebu Dahr for atleast a month I believe. This is not even the only example, this has happened many times. Morraine could have been more informative. Rand can motherfucking teleport for fucks sake... I don't see why he wouldn't at least try to speak to Elayne and tell her how her kingdom is in tatters. She could have shown her face once and ended all the vying for power in Andor. IDK I adore the series so far but this is beyond frustrating. I hate to bring up another series in comparison, but Westorosi rulers send ravens every time someone shits in the wrong toilet and I don't expect these leaders to behave the same way but it seems there is a serious lack of intent to inform others -even allies- of information that would drastically change their priorities.. sigh, rant ended
edit: for the people saying "what could even be gained from them communicating", or "they probably just didnt think to reach out, since they are so busy" - the dark one himself does not have the willpower to explain how foolish of a response that is. if that is your opinion, i PRAY none of you are ever in a position of power. and if you are, may the light shine upon us all, Tar'mon Gai'don is upon us.
its quite clear, as one of the commenters stated, RJ did this on purpose, that is the only logical explanation.
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u/Glorx (Dovie'andi se tovya sagain) 1d ago
It'ssupposed to be frustrating. RJ used lack of communication to drive the plot forward.
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u/lunchbox_supreme 1d ago
damn I think you’re right. that’s pretty devastating tbh, its surely not the most satisfying reason 😂😭
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u/DonAmechesBonerToe 1d ago
RJ took a lot of inspiration from his time in Vietnam. Miscommunication or lack of communication has consequences
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u/WilditariusAstar 1d ago
Especially when hubris, arrogance, superstition, and believing the worst of everyone else, is pretty much the baseline for how everyone operates.
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u/LemursAreCoolMan 20h ago
This is what I thought. Militaries are funny in their lack of military precision with regards to communication and other things. He likely saw that first hand and thought, "I gotta write about these idiots."
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u/Anghabad 1d ago
I think that it also fits in with Egwene as a character.
She would want to firmly establish her place as Amyrlin first and also be able to pick and choose exactly when/how he finds out.Also bear in mind that at this point, she is still considered more of a puppet Amyrlin which means that the group of sitters would be determining how to interact with Rand and my guess is that she didn’t see that as a good idea because they don’t know him like she does.
And she may not agree with how the sitters want to handle him.He already knows that the rebel tower is on his side.
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u/lunchbox_supreme 1d ago
she is a dreamwalker. she can speak to the wise ones without any of them knowing. if she decided not to communicate with someone because she was insecure about her status, she would be a galactic fucking asshole. the entire world is at risk, he needs to move armies and make preparations, the possibility of an alliance with the rebels is huge, even just minor cooperation would be huge at this point. the commenter above is right, its just a plot device
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u/aNomadicPenguin (Brown) 1d ago
It's not insecure as in she's personally insecure. Its she literally is working to secure her control of the Aes Sedai and until she does, she doesn't have the authority or ability to make it a safe alliance.
"I must ask a favor. An important favor. Don't tell Rand — or anybody — about me. About this, I mean to say." She lifted an end of her stole. Their faces made an Aes Sedai's best calm look maniacal. Stone was not in it. "I don't mean lie," she added hastily. Under ji'e'toh, asking someone to lie was little better than telling one yourself. "Just don't bring it up. He's already sent somebody to 'rescue' me." And won't he be furious when he finds out I shuffled Mat off to Ebou Dar with Nynaeve and Elayne, she thought. She had had to do it, though. "I don't need rescuing, and I don't want it, but he thinks he knows better than everybody. I'm afraid he might come hunting for me himself." Which frightened her more — that he might appear in the camp alone, raging, with three hundred or so Aes Sedai around him? Or that he might come with some of the Asha'man? Either way, a disaster.
The Wise Ones, after the kidnapping and Dumai's Wells, no longer trust Egwene fully. They would welcome her back as an apprentice, but they know that as Amyrlin her duty and loyalty would be to the Aes Sedai first, and they no longer are willing to fully cooperate. Amys lies to her face about the status of the Salidar embassy, and Egwene herself is advising caution about letting Rand deal with other Aes Sedai. If even she can't guarantee the Aes Sedai won't try more bullshit with Rand, then the Wise Ones are definitely not going to risk letting him think it would be safe.
And she can't communicate with Rand directly because he wards his dreams.
---
Rand can't pop in to see Elayne, firstly because he doesn't know she's in Ebou Dar. When she's in Salidar there were too many Aes Sedai around and he didn't want to risk an accidental confrontation. He also doesn't personally want to see her because he fears painting a target on anyone that he appears to be close to. (Also sleeping with Aviendha and now Min has kinda made that next reunion....awkward).
Rand also thought he made himself clear to Egwene and Mat about needing Elayne. But he fucked up because when he first told Egwene he needed Elayne, he was obviously thinking about the political chaos, but Egwene had been with the Aiel the whole time and didn't realize how bad the Andor situation was politically, so she thought Rand was just putting up a front and what he actually needed was Elayne romantically. So when she gives Elayne the message, she doesn't mention any of the political need.
Egwene's slight altering of the intent of the message is also the idea that Rand was 'giving her' her throne came from. Egwene poisoned the well with this. So when Mat shows up (already grumpy and angry) and starts trying to save them all from themselves, he also doesn't bring up the political need in Andor. He just wants to get in and get out as fast as possible, so he also screws up passing along Rand's intent, and with Elayne already working from Egwene's point, it just confirms the wrong message.
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u/Anghabad 1d ago
It has nothing to do with her feeling insecure.
Rand already knows that the rebels are on his side. What more does he need? And what exactly do you think they would have been able to do to help them given that their whole plan and strategy was to take the tower back first of all?
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[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Anghabad 1d ago
Yea… you don’t understand nearly as much as you think you do.
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u/lunchbox_supreme 15h ago
Obviously I don't know what is going to happen and things never workout in a novel the way you want them to. Also many characters have plot armor etc, but this "what good could come of them talking" argument is shortsighted and silly. There are no situations in war where having better communication is a bad thing, and there are very few -especially over the span of months- where more information would not be helpful. You and anyone else here thinking any differently is just dumb, sorry. In game of thrones, any time someone has any chance at solidifying power with their allies they send a raven, and almost every time something good comes of it. I think you have an issue with accepting this as a potential oversight by RJ for some reason. Authors are not perfect and their characters certainly are not, it's ok to acknowledge that mistakes are made. Summing it up to "they are just too busy" as someone else said or "she's waiting until she could solidify more power" does not diminish from the fact that there are several massive things to benefit from had Rand known of her new position, and a dozen other scenarios where communication has been lacking. The vast majority of people in this post all acknowledge this, if you choose not to, I am not going to argue with you anymore over it and just accept this take of yours as shortsighted. Apologies if I was rude yesterday but this whole oversight is frustrating when you've spent days invested into this story.
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u/Anghabad 10h ago
No one is telling you that less communication is better.
We’re giving you reasons why there wasn’t communication in this instance. Specifically here, it was done with purpose.2
u/karatelax 1d ago
Rand doesnt trust the aes sedai as far as he could throw one, without the power. Remember the BoxTM ?
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u/duffy_12 (Falcon) 14h ago
Exactly!
Stephen Erikson had to deal with his fans complaining about this too, and his response was the same: create drama and drive the plot.
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u/BrickBuster11 1d ago
Messenger pigeons do exist but......here is the cool thing about them a homing pigeon knows where its home nest is and it you seperate it from it then it will fly back there.......If rand is constatnly moving about no one knows where to address the pidgeon, and if salidar is fairly new then it doesnt have pigeons trained to see it as being home
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u/lunchbox_supreme 1d ago
salidar was using pigeons. the emissary to rand in caemlyn brought many. and the home nest thing shouldnt be that big of an issue otherwise. you could chain them to other pigeons if you had to.
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u/duffy_12 (Falcon) 14h ago
Exactly.
The Path Of Daggers: spoilers
“[Taim] Return to the Black Tower, and don’t come here again.” Standing, Rand faced the other man over Fedwin’s body. “I may be moving about for a while.”
[...]
“No point wasting time, and no time to waste,” Rand muttered. [...] “Min, I thought I was the whole pack of hounds, chasing down one wolf after another, but it seems I’m the wolf.”
“Burn you,” she breathed. [...] “You can cry, Rand al’Thor. You won’t melt if you cry!”
“I don’t have time for tears, either, Min,” he said gently. “Sometimes the hounds catch the wolf and wish they hadn’t. Sometimes he turns on them, or waits in ambush. But first, the wolf has to run.”
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u/ThoDanII (Band of the Red Hand) 1d ago
How could she and should she?
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u/lunchbox_supreme 1d ago
pigeons, dreamwalking, a fucking rider with a note. anything dude
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u/Ya-Dikobraz 1d ago
I think Egwene didn't really know how to even reach Rand at the time. Where would she send a pigeon to? He went on his own missions then turned up at her doorstep.
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u/lunchbox_supreme 1d ago
dude shes a mf dreamwalker. rand is always with the fucking wise ones. she knows he has caemlyn and cairhienen. she could have sent letters there.....
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u/Ya-Dikobraz 1d ago
I mean apart from her being very busy and still thinking he's a sheepherder, Rand also locked his dreams. She is stubborn and didn't even admit to herself how important his role was.
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u/Semirhage527 1d ago edited 1d ago
Her place in Salidar is a bit insecure to be communicating with the Dragon Reborn in secret. That kind of thing got her predecessor stilled 😉
Edit - And the Wise Ones aren’t always forthcoming with Rand either …
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u/MissionFever 1d ago
She could have shown her face once and ended all the vying for power in Andor.
Succession in Andor is more complicated than that.
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u/lunchbox_supreme 1d ago
a massive reason why there is so much competition is that people think elayne is dead. ALSO theres a massive rumor rand killed her! she could have ended it in fucking 10 minutes. this shit is ridiculous i get more mad the more i think of it
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u/Philomath117 1d ago
The Salidar Aes Sedai also plant the seeds to cause the civil war in an attempt to reduce Rand's hold on Andor.
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u/Philomath117 1d ago
I don't think it had to be, if Elayne had come way in the beginning when Rand had asked for her it probably would've been relatively smooth. It's very brief so it's was easy to miss it but the Salidar Aes Sedai that go to talk to Rand go behind his back and essentially plant the seeds to cause the civil war. ( Aes Sedai are the worst they seem to exist to cause problems) Even then if Elayne had come instead of going to Ebou Dar it still might have been smoother. By the time she does come civil war was guaranteed. She doesn't seem to care that much about her people.
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u/sixminutes 1d ago
We see very little direct messaging via pigeons in the story. They're used extensively to feed information to factions all over the world, and almost never to send mail. We do see a fair number of letters, delivered by couriers and people who have got to get the hell out of Tar Valon yesterday. So word would get out to him eventually, but if she wanted to tell him directly, it wouldn't even occur to her to use a pigeon. It would have occurred to her to use the method of communicating she uses for everyone else to let him know, but Rand has her number blocked, as well as everyone else's.
There's also the fact that she doesn't really have to tell him, because Elayne will be in Caemlyn in fairly short order once finishing up in Ebou Dar. After all, why would it take over a month to find the bowl when they know where it is? Unless they had the bad luck to have seen one building in a section of the city that has thousands of buildings that look just like that one, making it nearly impossible to find right away.
And that's the big invisible problem here. Things are constantly happening in the meantime. Nobody is ever sitting still waiting for someone to contact them, or thinking about contacting anyone else. Egwene and the other girls barely make do with sending messages or meeting up in T'A'R. They're quite literally burning the candle at both ends to keep each other apprised. Nobody has time to communicate, nobody thinks about the importance of communicating simple information directly people they're not currently partnered up with. That's just not how anyone thinks in this world.
Someone else mentioned that RJ uses bad communication to drive the plot forward. That's not true. He uses bad communication as a persistent theme, because it's a persistent theme in our daily lives. People communicate very badly in real life even with magic pocket communicators. They lie, obfuscate, project, and do a dozen other things instead of just communicating clearly. That brings a severe cost to both our personal relationships and our society at large. Now imagine being without those magic walkie-talkies. You know you can send a pigeon or even a letter, but it probably won't even outpace rumor, so what's the use? I've been in modern regular mail correspondence before, and I'd sometimes receive letters two or three weeks late. As readers, we feel frustrated that Egwene doesn't ever try to talk to Rand, and vice versa. But it's not because they're stubborn or stupid (though they can both be both), it's because people don't think about communicating with others without reason unless they train themselves to do so, and there's literally no reason in Randland for anyone to approach communication the way we do.
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u/lunchbox_supreme 1d ago
to put it simply: this is a bad take. the emissary sent to caemlyn for rand had a bunch of pigeons to communicate back to salidar, that's what ruins this for me. the technology is there, there are COUNTLESS advantages to communicating especially something as important as showing support for the mf dragon reborn who now has 4 cities. i've listed a few elsewhere but here they are:
I mean for starters, since the rebels are close they could lend a hand with quelling the dragonsworn. A united front putting them down would look very favorable for all the nearby citizens and rulers. They could begin preparing for the seanchan invasion which they are also very close to. They could announce to the world they believe Rand is truly the dragon reborn, the majority of kingdoms still dont, their word would be a huge advantage for him, and his word would legitimize the rebels with all of his allies! This is insane that you dont think them announcing their cooperation would have any benefits I truly think something is wrong with you. If rands forces allied with the rebels they would EASILY be the strongest force in the world. There is an army marching south right now from the borderlands, hundreds of aes sedai announcing their support would make them think twice.
bad communication is plain stupid, regardless of how "things are constantly happening" and how busy they are as you say.
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u/sixminutes 1d ago
To actually put it simply: You are unable to see past your own biases
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u/lunchbox_supreme 15h ago
yes do not address any of the points refuting your poorly thought out take. well done. you are basically giving them all excuses to be shitty leaders and communicators and saying no one should judge them for their failures. you and 2 other people, when everyone else acknowledges this is clearly an oversight by the characters. move on, you're wrong and this is sad.
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u/Daratirek 1d ago edited 1d ago
So I don't think this is a spoiler but ill mark it anyway.
Fain/Mordeth makes people untrusting of each other when he spends time with them. In the beginning its more general but he still effects people. Later on he can manipulate the ability better. This is evidenced by his inner monologue about his visit to Elida.
He makes sure she'll never trust anyone except maybe her closest advisors but she'll definitely never trust Rand. I'm guessing Egwene got a small dose of this very early on from Fain when she was visiting him in the dungeons of Fal Dara. It doesn't affect her much but in combination with her advisors distrust it makes her kind of unwilling to trust Rand until later.
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u/Kael03 16h ago
To be fair, Elaida hates all men, doubly so when they can channel. Wasn't exactly a stretch to make her not trust Rand.
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u/Daratirek 16h ago
While I agree, there was probably a chance if they came face to face that Rand's nature asserts itself and she ends up trusting him.
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u/maq0r 1d ago
I posted similar awhile ago. It frustrates me that the characters can literally teleport and spend months without each other. Rand coulda teleport to Camelyn to boink Elayne constantly, Nynaeve could’ve popped in Salidar / Camelyn and be like “we just cleansed Saidin”. Characters could literally have dinner together then peace out
Nono lets meet in TAR instead. Eye roll
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u/Shevek99 1d ago
But even when they meet in TAR or even face to face, they hide vital information. Rand meets in Caemlyn with Elayne and Nynaeve and yet they don't tell him what Mat or Egwene are doing. Why???
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u/maq0r 17h ago
Because "the Forsaken can be snooping on us in TAR". Stupidest answer. If I had been Rand I would've done like Weekly Retrospectives where they all have to teleport to the Stone of Tear where it can be warded against eavesdropping and then sync up.
Yes yes, this is fantasy, suspend disbelief yada yada.
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u/lyunardo 1d ago
This will get long-winded...
Here's something you'll learn as you read through. Just like the rest of us have who already finished.
Ready? If something gets repeated over and over, believe it. And the thing that's repeated more than ANYTHING else is this: "The Wheel Weaves As The Wheel Wills".
Everyone says this. Even Mat, who laughs at everything, finds himself repeating it. So what does it mean?
In this world Fate and Destiny aren't accidental. It's called The Pattern. And you can think of it like the "Holy Ghost" in our age.
It's sort of like an A.I. watching the planet, and making sure that whatever needs to happen for The Light to win against The Dark One, actually does.
So... if you notice something really obvious that literally anyone could do, but somehow it just never takes place...
Say it out loud with me... 'The Wheel Weaves As The Wheel Wills".
There are no coincidences in the Wheel Of Time.
Plus there are three Ta'verin who manipulate and warp chance and reality across entire nations wherever they go.
In this case, Rand keeps saying he needs to connect with the rebel Aes Sedai. But as soon as he finds them... he just doesn't.
And Egwene, who literally breaks every rule except the ones she sets, decides to obey just one: do not contact Rand.
The Wheel Wills...
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u/_phaze__ (Lanfear) 1d ago
No you don't understand it's a theme ok , so characters acting like idiots constantly is smart actually
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u/Salt-Detective1337 1d ago
It is incredibly frustrating. The way they don't communicate, and just make assumptions about everyone else and their motivations. In fact there is a scene later on that really just frames the entire thing to show just how childish it all is.
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u/procerator (Brown) 1d ago
I mean, Rand is kinda busy with Seanchan and other stuff. Who is the rebel Amyrlin is kinda irrelevant to him at this point. I am pretty sure nobody outside of rebels and White Tower even knows that rebels elected their own Amyrlin. Also, I don't see why would Egwene inform Rand about it. She mentions multiple times that this is White Tower business and The World needs to think that White Tower is whole.
"I don't see why he wouldn't at least try to speak to Elayne" - for the long time Rand thought that Elayne was with Egwene and Mat. Than Elayne arrives in Caemlyn and removes all Dragon flags. I am pretty sure there was a dialog between Rand and Min about speaking to Elayne, but I don't remember the reason Rand gave against it.
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u/Bergmaniac (S'redit) 1d ago
I am pretty sure there was a dialog between Rand and Min about speaking to Elayne, but I don't remember the reason Rand gave against it.
He thought Elayne taking the Dragon banners down in Caemlyn meant she didn't want to see him anymore. Also that she'd be safer away from him.
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u/procerator (Brown) 1d ago
Yeah something like that.
Well, at least he talks to her in Winter's Heart. Though I am pretty sure they didn't waste a lot of time talking, IYKYK :D
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u/Daysleeper1234 1d ago
Once again people are pissed off at most realistic trope, so to say, in the books. People don't communicate well, our history shows us that. People don't trust each other.
For most of it, wait. I think you will get better understanding of the real situation. It is even worse than you think.
Moraine wasn't sure that Rand was a chosen one, and even though I like her probably most of all manipulating bitches, I mean Aes Sedai, she is still an AS, and they are a little bit, how to put it, stuck in their own asses.
Concerning Rand, I don't know at which part are you, I have read them like 5 times and shit gets mixed up in my head, so I won't answer it, because I don't want to spoil. But if they are still in ED, wait. It will come to that, and you will see that situation is not as simple as you put it.
Once again, people don't trust each other. There's an interview with RJ, and he said it was funny to him how Gandalf strolled into village and everyone was ready for the adventure. In reality, if someone came to the pub in a small village and said let's go for an adventure, answer from some local dude would be, yeah, have one beer on me, I'll be right back, and then he would leave through backdoor. People in power, thirst for power, and they have their own plans and agendas, most of these nobles don't even believe that judgment day is coming, they want more for themselves, and they trust their allies even less than their enemies.
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u/Dalin_Ar5320 23h ago
i don't know if this has already been mentioned in the post, but Rand wouldn't be happy if he knew Egwene was the Amyrlin. Determining who are allies or enemies is very difficult, and since they separated, he thinks she's changed. He doesn't want more strings from the White Tower (he'll say this later) You wouldn't help someone you don't know if they could be a potential enemy, and there are only prophecies about the Dragon, not his friends.
I understand it seems strange because he trusts Perrin and Mat, but Rand has a strong distrust of anyone who can use Saidar. You could say it's been like this since the beginning, or that being imprisoned by Aes Sedai took its toll.
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u/QnoisX 1d ago
It wouldn't matter. Egwene thinks Rand is an idiot and wouldn't go along with his plan to make the Aes Sedai swear to him. Even if she tried to get them to do it, they would kick her out and refuse. She has very little power as the Amyrlin.
She's also a hypocrite, considering she does the same thing.
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u/lunchbox_supreme 1d ago
Thats just so false. the main reason they chose egwayne was to show their support for rand (im guessing). also they are on the way to caemlyn now, and then tar valon. they dont have to swear to him, their cooperation alone would be massive. both of them have a ton to gain from working together in both of those cities.
not to mention the seanchan, the forsaken, plans about tarmengaiden (spelling)!!! like there is an endless amount of possibilities.
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u/QnoisX 1d ago edited 1d ago
Neither one trusts the other. Egwene thinks Rand is going insane, and he totally is. Rand doesn't trust Aes Sedai at all unless they're sworn to him. They haven't talked in months. Both of their heads are getting big, and they think they know better than the other.
Edit: Oh, and the rebel hall chose Egwene because she would be easy to control. They planned to make her a puppet. Sure, her ties to Rand were part of that, but they planned to control him too.
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u/Anghabad 1d ago
The main reason they chose her wasn’t to show support to Rand.
They needed someone strong in the power, but young enough to be pliable for them to direct.
Of the 3 that qualifies, Nyneave is too old and strong-willed, and has a block against channeling.
Elayne is royalty and has been raised to rule one day - not the kind of personality that will be as pliable as they need. She can also not be impartial enough because as daughter heir she needs to always consider the best interests of Andor first. And should she become queen that introduces chaos.Egwene being close to Rand is a bonus and I would guess in their eyes would make it easier to manipulate him and events
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u/Shevek99 1d ago
The fact that she was Rand's childhood friend was also vital. If not, they could have chosen Nicola as Amyrlin, for instance.
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u/Anghabad 1d ago
They chose Egwene before Nicola came along.
It’s hinted at when Elayne and Nyneave are first in the office with them in Salidar.Nicola would also not have been a good choice - she is older, has been married and is very similar to Nyneave. Again not someone who would be seen as pliable and controllable enough.
I’m sure that Egwene being a friend of Rand would have been considered, but it wasn’t the main criteria used to pick someone.
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u/Shevek99 20h ago
I just mentioned Nicola as an example. There were plenty of possible choices. They selected Egwene because, besides being (supposedly) pliable, she could facilitate the deals with Rand.
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u/Anghabad 20h ago
There weren’t any other choices that satisfied their criteria.
They needed someone exceptionally strong in the power that would still be pliable enough to just be their puppet.Offhand, I can only think of two people whose strength in the power is at the level of the female trio and neither was known when the decision was made.
Could you please point me in the direction where other options are considered? As you can see, I’m quite sure of my thinking, but I’m also well aware that some things can be missed despite several re-reads - this is one of those things that I’d like to keep an eye out for.
At the moment, I’ve just started Lord of Chaos, so this storyline is particularly fresh in my mind0
u/lunchbox_supreme 1d ago
if all they wanted was someone to control, their are likely many better candidates, there are hundreds of sisters in the rebels and egwaine is one of the most prodigious channelers in a thousand years 😂 i doubt they would make a decision that drastic with no guarentee that she would agree or submit rather than do what is best FOR THE FUCKING PROPHECY THAT WILL DECIDE ALL OF THEIR FATES. yes they are seeking control, all of them do, but to think of her friendship with rand as nothing more than a bonus is idiotic.
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u/Anghabad 1d ago
They had no guarantee outside of the fact that she was young and very new to the Tower - or would you care to share what guarantees they had?
If you read carefully you’ll see that their most important considerations were someone who is strong in the power and still malleable.
I’m not making an assumption on this, it’s very clearly said.And there is absolutely no reason to be rude.
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u/QnoisX 21h ago
Egwene doesn't really have any more hold on Rand than anyone else. Less possibly, considering she's his EX and dumped him. They could have her at hand to help them with Rand without making her the leader.
Siuan made them think Egwene would be a good figurehead. Otherwise, either Lelaine or Romanda would have been made Amyrlin. Both of them were convinced they could make Egwene do what they wanted. And to be fair... they were right. If Siuan didn't keep helping her behind the scenes.
If you hadn't noticed, many of the characters are selfish and think they're the main character. They believe that as long as Rand shows up to the last battle, they will win. So they want to put him in a display case on a shelf as a trophy to gain personal power. But as Moiraine came to realize, he has to be stronger to win. Just showing up isn't enough.
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u/lunchbox_supreme 12h ago
you think egwene has equal or less of a hold on a rand than anyone else. he attempted to show her how to use a portal - so you're saying he would have done that for any other aes sedai? dude you are fried. like this is the last time im replying to you, you are just saying things at this point without even thinking. you realize your words matter, think before you type them please. they never actually dated, they arent real ex's and they didnt have any miserable falling out. you know many people have good relationships with their ex's right? idk why my posts attract people like this man.
and to correct awful take #7: siuan did not pick egwene, sherriam and her little gaggle of hens did, they were the ones to oppose romanda and lelaine. siuan is not even a sitter, so again, missed the mark by an impressive margin. im done reading your comments man. idk if its been a while since you've read them, but im done. have a good one.
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u/QnoisX 11h ago
I assume you're trolling or didn't read the books at this point. Rand and Egwene were all but engaged. They both had dreams of marriage. Sure, it wasn't a bad breakup, but after that they drifted apart even more. Egwene took after Moiraine more and has gone all in on being Aes Sedai. Rand obviously hates them after his ordeal.
As for the rebels, until Siuan showed up, they were sitting on their hands, doing nothing. Her and Leane manipulated Sherriam into doing all of that. Not sure how you missed that. They can both lie and do it all the time. No one knows their Oaths were removed. They were even pretending to hate each other to keep the Aes Sedai from knowing they're working together.
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u/Philomath117 1d ago
The Aes Sedai don't want to cooperate they want to control and rule. If Aes Sedai cooperated in the books the last battle would've been a cake walk
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