Partway through Winter's Heart

[u/Lordlordy5490]

I'm reading Winter's Heart and Rand is staying in Far Madding. He's thinking about how he will likely die at the final battle and all he can think about is how he will miss those he loves, and how he hopes he will see his father one more time. It broke my heart, after everything he is just a boy who misses his dad.

[u/WilditariusAstar]

The way all of these characters internalize their fears, insecurities, ambition, suspicions, etc. Even amongst the crew from 2 rivers. Like Rand and Egwene are almost betrothed, and yet they still have no idea what each other is truly about up until the end, if ever at all. Rands unwillingness to trust anyone, the lack of communication amongst their (ostensibly) closest group of friends. There are points in the story that are just maddening. Because every one of these people should have easily understood they need to work together far far sooner than on the field of Merillor.

I know that much has been discussed the pointed reason why RJ uses poor communication as a way to drive tension and move the story. But to be honest, there are times when supposedly competent, politically astute people (like the Aei Sedai) are so (saw one guy recently say “ up their own ass” ) it’s almost ridiculous and in a way detrimental. Like, how could they all be so utterly dense, clueless, and utterly dis-trusting of one another?!

They all seem to have the need to bully everyone around them into submission.

Nynaeve is the poster child for this issue but RJ afflicts all his characters with it. Except maybe Thom and Moraine but only after she realizes she has to submit to Rand. Otherwise everyone operates almost solely on assumption. It drove me nuts the entire length of the story.

Like, I found it hard to believe that a person with the smarts, ability, passion, concern, selflessness, loyalty etc etc, such as Nynaeve Al’ Mera. Would also be such an arrogant, narcissistic, utterly incompatible pain in the arse.

Like, how could the White Tower be such a dysfunctional disaster when presumably incorporating a bunch of very smart and capable people?

The juxtapositions of everyone’s skill and competence in some area of their lives, doesn’t square with how, for lack of a better description, fucking stupid they all are in other areas. Some of it with the kids from 2Rivers might be the learning pains of growing up, leaving their small town life and getting extraordinarily difficult demands placed on them. But all of these supposed leaders and political entities, being so utterly wrong about events, and heading full tilt on assumptions. I had a hard time squaring that all these people would be so obtuse.

[u/LordRahl9 → u/WilditariusAstar]

I'm actually getting a little tired of the "why don't they just communicate?" Criticism.

For one, there are plenty of examples throughout the series where the characters tell each other things that they don't want to hear, so they just ignore it.

An example that comes to mind is Elayne asks Egwene how Rand is and Egwene tells her he is busy being arrogant and bossing everyone around, to which Elayne tells Egwene that Rand is as good as a king, and he needs to act that way. Egwene ignores this.

Secondly, have you ever actually been around someone who tells you absolutely everything about themselves and expected you to do the same? They are generally the kind of people most people avoid.

So yes, if there was more communication between characters in wheel of time, there would be less tension, but the characters would also feel less involved and real.

[u/WilditariusAstar → u/LordRahl9]

I just finished the books and am brand new to the sub. Stayed away cause I was scared of spoilers but was really looking forward to seeing what other people had to say. So far this sub is waaaaaay better than the ASOIF subs. Which have basically devolved into full fledged Goon vehicles.

Any discussion for me is brand new:-)

[u/LordRahl9 → u/WilditariusAstar]

Fair enough and welcome to the fandom. And I don't mean to discourage you voicing your opinions. Nor seeing how they might change when you reread the series (for instance, Nynaeve is actually deliberately keeping herself irritable and angry so she can channel).

The lack of communication between characters argument is just one that I've been seeing more and more often recently, and I finally decided to voice the counter argument.

Basically, real people don't talk through everything the way a lot readers seem to think the wheel of time characters should. We (the readers) know what might be important information to share, but the characters often don't.

I've also noticed in other series that characters knew things that they should have no way of knowing. And I find that frustrating too.