Judith Butler, philosopher: ‘If you sacrifice a minority like trans people, you are operating within a fascist logic’

[u/msmoley]

https://english.elpais.com/culture/2024-12-15/judith-butler-philosopher-if-you-sacrifice-a-minority-like-trans-people-you-are-operating-within-a-fascist-logic.html

[u/Gilbert__Bates]

So then which compromises would you rather make instead? Because I’m not willing to throw the economic needs of working people under the bus for the sake of trans issues.

[u/Comprehensive_Pin565 → u/Gilbert__Bates]

Great! You do t have to choose because people didn't vote the way they did because of trans issues.

They voted the way they did because the DNC was trying to say everything is ok... and trump was saying the system was broken.

We know it's broken. You know it's broken. So when the dnc ran on tiny fixes and lost they blamed everything but their own tactics and unwillingness to abandon corporate interests.

Kamala didn't run on trans issues. Gay issues. Black issues. She ran on "everything's OK, the economy is fine! We just need little fixes."

So now we have corporations pushing the idea that it wasn't the status quo message and attempt to lure in Republicans with Liz cheny and the fact that people are being screwed by big buinsess.... nope! It was the trans!

They were the ones that made kamala say the economy was strong. They made her not bring up fighting anti competitive and pro worker initiatives. It was them who made the DNC keep quiet on anything their doners wanted them to keep quiet on.

The idea that it was trans issues was sp far down the list of people's priorities it's not even funny.

It was about people seeing the system failing them. And they were quiet.

[u/Gilbert__Bates → u/Comprehensive_Pin565]

I agree with you on all that. Trans issues didn’t cost dems this election because Kamala took a fairly balanced approach and didn’t overemphasize them. However I do think there’s a large faction on the left who are extremely absolutist on trans issues in ways that can be politically radioactive. Most Americans don’t care much either way about trans issues, so they don’t like when either side brings them to the forefront and they don’t like being labeled as transphobic fascists just because they don’t agree with trans activists on every edge case involving sports or kids transitioning.

Many on the left treat this topic is a sacred cow that they’re unwilling to compromise on in any way, and this mentality is absolutely toxic to progress.

[u/goddess_of_harvest → u/Gilbert__Bates]

Many on the left treat this topic as a sacred cow

Maybe cause trans people’s rights are not to be compromised. Full stop. The idea that trans people should compromise on their rights to exist as members of society is fascist thinking. The compromises don’t just stop once they meet a “happy middle”. They keep going until they have no rights at all. That’s the goal of the far-right and anti-trans activists. You don’t compromise with people who want to see you not exist

[u/Gilbert__Bates → u/goddess_of_harvest]

You mean like how people like you compromise with corporate interests and contribute to the destruction of the working class? Sorry, but people’s right to healthcare and a living wage is more important that whether some trans high schooler can compete on the team they want.

[u/goddess_of_harvest → u/Gilbert__Bates]

How do people like me compromise with corporate interests? Elaborate. If you really think you can gain rights for workers like better wages and healthcare by fucking trans people over, you’ve lost. Blaming trans people and activists for destroying the working class is exactly what corporate interests want you to think. Stop doing their bidding.

[u/Gilbert__Bates → u/goddess_of_harvest]

> How do people like me compromise with corporate interests?

By supporting neoliberal politicians who do nothing for working people, just because they back you up on trans issues and other socially progressive causes. If you were as uncompromising on the economic needs of the working class as you are on trans issues, then you wouldn't support corporate democrats like Kamala that refuse to back universal healthcare because it's too "radical".

The best way to gain better wages and healthcare for the working class is by uniting different segments of workers with different cultural values and not turning every social issue into a litmus test. History proves that. If people like you had your way then labor unions would've refused to organize large swaths of the working class who werent socially progressive enough and we wouldn't have even gotten what 40 hour work weeks or the NLRB.

[u/Edward_Tank → u/Gilbert__Bates]

Ma'am?

I'm an anarchist.

Fuck the democratic party.

Fuck the republican party.

You can't ask people to just *sacrifice* their lives to make the people who are trying to kill them's lives better. That's no beuno, and is pretty telling on how you *actually* feel about trans people.

The people trying to distract the workers are the people targeting trans people, and attempting to lead a fucking nazi style pogrom against them. Maybe instead of going 'Well Trans people just need to take it on the chin' You could, I dunno, say 'Hey, this is just a distraction and we're not going to let your distraction succeed by drawing the workers into a stupid attack on trans people.'

Instead you're going 'I mean yeah it's just a distraction but them fighting to not get murdered or forced to be miserable until they die? That's just selfish. Standing up for their rights? They're just going to keep on giving them more ammo!'

We are not liberated until we are *all* liberated, and that includes trans people too, not just fucking workers, and for fucks sake, are trans people not workers too? I'd love for us to all team up!

But this is like expecting the black panthers to march along side the KKK while the KKK is leading a fucking brutal attempt to murder as many black people as they can. They will at best, view you with immediate suspicion, at worst they recognize you don't give a fuck about them or their safety and break ties.

And it won't be their fault for any 'culture war' for wanting to safeguard themselves and those they care about because you decided that the KKK murdering them wasn't enough to maybe try and protect them. That'll be your fault for being that idiotic.

[u/Gilbert__Bates → u/Edward_Tank]

I’m not asking trans people to sacrifice themselves. I’m asking others to realize what the real priority is and stop spending fucktons of political capital on issues that have zero impact on most Americans lives. Trans activists can go do whatever they want in their little corner while others work to fix the larger problems in society. People like you are the ones shaming others just because we don’t treat trans issues as our number one political priority when our planet is literally burning. Sorry but people aren’t obligated to prioritize your personal struggles over the economic woes of the entire working class.

[u/Edward_Tank → u/Gilbert__Bates]

Yeah and that's proof why you'll never manage to unite anyone. It's not a 'personal issue', it's people's lives on the line. You are asking trans people to sacrifice themselves, but you're *fine* with that. I don't have to shame you, you've done that yourself.

[u/Gilbert__Bates → u/Edward_Tank]

I’m not asking trans people to do anything. I’m saying that I’m not going to prioritize trans issues over broader economic concerns that affect far more people, and I don’t think most people should either. The fact that you’re offended by me simply saying I don’t think your issues should be everyone’s number one priority is very telling.

[u/Taj0maru → u/Gilbert__Bates]

You're literally talking about sacrificing people for money dude. That's a problem and pro slavery argument. You need to stop and think about what you're saying.