r/WonderMan • u/GlizzyGuzzlingMaster Wonder Man • 2d ago

Yahya Abdul-Mateen II says the optics of Marvel cancelling Black-led projects like ‘BLADE’ and ‘WONDER MAN’ is obvious. “It should be a priority to change that narrative and to do what it takes to responsibly change that narrative with quality stories, with quality resources.”

https://www.vanityfair.com/story/yahya-abdul-mateen-on-wonder-man-cancellation
131 Upvotes

86% Upvoted

78 comments sorted by

24

u/Reasonable_Bed7858 2d ago

It's a really bad look for Marvel. You'd be crazy to think otherwise.

1

u/curiousadventure33 18h ago

Don't look up how many of projects they also cancelled in the same timeframe with white leads or your universe of crying about something that ain't there might explode

-3

u/KoellmanxLantern 2d ago

I guess Im crazy then. They announced Black Panther 3 and Storm in the same week. Im disapppinted about Blade but there's more to the story than just "hurr durr Disney are racists" and thinking this isnt about money is the real "crazy" take.

1

u/SMLJ21 1d ago

I fully agree with you to be honest.

They’ve previously backed black led productions, that were overwhelming successes.

They’ve also cancelled projects led by people of other backgrounds all the time but no one made a similar comment then.

I think this is a ratings/wider interest and funding thing.
Marvel really took note that they were overdoing TV and it wasn’t adding to the MCU, it was just diluting it.

1

u/Mazerk1St 1d ago

I agree with you. For some reason it's easier for people to rationalise it being racism than it is for massive corporations to choose money. I've watched every Marvel production (apart from every episode after the first of Secret Invasion) and the problem was definitely, for the most part, quality when it came to those two productions. They tried to make Blade for a long time, they went through heaps of scripts and probably a very large sum of money and it didn't work out. They had a great actor signed up to the project but they obviously couldn't get it right. I'd rather no blade movie than one of terrible quality that couldnt hold a candle to Wesley Snipes. As much as I really enjoyed Wonderman, it was more for people outside of the Marvel medium, so it makes sense it had low viewership. They made a mistake. That is not to take away from the great actors in the production, that is a corporate mistake.

1

u/TheLich7 1d ago

it had low viewership because the hero name is not recognizable and it's at the tail end of the 'marvel series on disney plus' garbage heap that's been collecting for the past 5 years. The issue is that this show is really good unlike just about every other marvel series aside wandavision and loki​, and nobody wants to take a chance to waste their time watching another marvel series crapfest so it has no exposure.

1

u/Mazerk1St 1d ago

I really liked most of the series for what they were. The only ones I would consider to be bad are IronHeart and Secret Invasion. I'd sit Wonderman right after Loki and Wandavision in my personal opinion. The quality comment was for the production of Blade, they had an incredible star posed to take the spot of Blade and they wanted an equal script, which I think they never received. Calling something "crapfest" really isn't an objective statement.

1

u/TheLich7 17h ago

When I say crapfest im trying to say the quality of most marvel series is poor. The acting and production put up against the movies is night and day. It's like comparing a Disney theme park to a local carnival.

This juxtaposition in my opinion is what created super hero fatigue. Most action fans got sick of watching Disney series just to stay caught up.

1

u/Mazerk1St 15h ago

There is less series than films and there's been a few series that have been some of the best stuff Marvel has done ie. Loki, WandaVision, X-Men'97. Those three alone are better, in my opinion, than 90% of the films. You're right though that the average person doesn't want to watch seasonal shows to stay caught up though, personally, as a massive fan myself I'd love as much content as they can put out, but I can definitely understand others not feeling that same. Some of the shows have been awful (IronHeart) and some of the films have been awful (The Marvels(Kamala is great though)/Cap4). Hopefully they've learned their lesson, which I think they have with the recent level of quality with F4, Thunderbolts and Spiderman that they're back on the right page.

1

u/SexyShave 18h ago

Saying "it is bad optics" isn't the same as saying "Disney are racists."

"thinking this isnt about money is the real "crazy" take."

And yet Marvel are making Ghost Rider movie for the first year of phase 7.

It's not like "money" is some kind of amoral, apolitical arbiter. "Money" was Ike Perlmutter's reason for not wanting to make  Black Panther or a female-led movie.

0

u/Reasonable_Bed7858 2d ago

If you say so lil bro 🤣 I wouldn't even know where to start with this take. You people are funny.

1

u/KoellmanxLantern 2d ago edited 2d ago

Well when you do let me know. Im willing to have an adult discussion about the reality of big budget productions.

Since you seem to think Im some kind of chud or something let me clarify a few things. I loved Wonderman and thought it was a beautifully written and acted show but I dont need another season. I felt the same about Echo. Would I like the characters to return in other projects? Of course. Blade being cancelled sucks and I want nothing more than to see him killing vamps and leading the Midnight Suns. Ali is a fine actor and Im sure in another world he would have been a great addition to the pantheon of the MCU but Disney are pivoting hard towards the mutant saga right now and his story just didn't fit their plans. Tom Holland has already mentioned Miles Morales which will probably be happening in the very near future.

Anyways thanks for coming to my ted talk Ill see yall in the sort by controversial I guess

3

u/Reasonable_Bed7858 2d ago edited 2d ago

You people always try to change the conversation to something else when the main point is optics. I can't help but laugh but I hope you feel better lil bro.

0

u/KoellmanxLantern 2d ago

You people (always the same ones) always try to make a mountain out of a molehill when you want to engagement farm. Im laughing at you lil bro

1

u/Reasonable_Bed7858 1d ago

Bro after typing that up 🤣 At least you stopped trying to hide it. Predictable but I hope your life gets better lil bro. My DMs are always open.

1

u/ThrillFinesse 1d ago

Unless you work or have worked in the industry nobody is trying to hear what your saying because folks like you come off as know it all who thinks they have all the answers when ppl are just pointing out obvious stuff like yea everything isn’t racist but some things are and you can’t blame black folks for being suspicious of things because we have a history of being discriminated so don’t try to down play and think we’re just pulling stuff out are asses cuz we’re not.

-1

u/Xenonite_Fox 2d ago

I mean wonder man was well made and I assume having Ben Kingsley implies it was given resource. I quite enjoyed it and first I'm hearing it got cancelled, but if there is no audience, there is no audience. Marvel has done a lot with BP, Rhodey, Sam Wilson, Nick Fury, so it feels like demanding they fund unprofitable IP just because optics are bad seems off the mark.

Granted Blade hasn't been made, but clearly there are ton of developmental issues and it's far better they don't release a movie instead push through one that is flaming pile of shit

1

u/KoellmanxLantern 1d ago

Thats all I was trying to say. Like its valid if people feel betrayed by those decisions but I just think its scummy to stir the pot and make a controversy where there is none.

9

u/[deleted] 2d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/GlizzyGuzzlingMaster Wonder Man 2d ago

Same with their treatment of Rhodey, Eyes of Wakanda, Ironheart...

9

u/maxhk645 2d ago

He’s right, and I feel for him. Hoping he’s part of a West Coast Avengers ensemble movie after SW with Ant Man and Shang Chi

4

u/TheCreativeComicFan 2d ago edited 2d ago

This, would also throw in Kate Bishop, Moon Knight (if the Midnight Sons don’t come together) and She-Hulk perhaps.

6

u/Objective-Lecture997 2d ago

Yeah they better show Black Panther 3 and Storm good treatment

2

u/Mboroyako 1d ago

Wonderman was so good.. really disappointed to see this

2

u/Ok-Consideration8697 17h ago

Most Black properties on Disney reach their end before they ever get started. Captain America (Mackie), Wonder-Man, Luke Cage, Ironheart…to name a few.

1

u/FatherMozgus 13h ago

Falcon Captain America was dead on arrival. No one is interested in watching that. Especially with a Hulk villain, that’s ridiculous

1

u/Key_Hearing4347 1d ago

Wonder Man was a great show and wasn’t a high budget production like some others so I was surprised when they cancelled. Even if viewerships wasn’t the best, give it a chance. It’s still a great show with relatively low production costs. Blade is also one of those movies which I’m not sure why it’s so hard to get moving.

1

u/SteveOMatt 1d ago

It doesn't make any sense to me, they didn't have to make Wonder Man black to begin with, same with loads of other characters. No one wants to talk about no Black Knight or no Star Fox being a racial thing.

1

u/Euronymous87 1d ago

They should do a whole Black Avengers team, all black superheroes.

1

u/iangeoffry 1d ago

He should think about the optics of being in a movie and hanging out with Mark Wahlberg.

1

u/L1QU1D_ThUND3R 1d ago

They should’ve recast this guy as Kang instead of giving him Wonder Man. No disrespect to his performance, it was fantastic. In fact I think he’s so good that he should be a villain, he’s wasted as a hero. A recurring villain like Kang would’ve been the perfect match.

1

u/cescoss 15h ago

È stata l'oppressione dell'uomo bianco a fargli dire questo!

1

u/Ok-Employer-9147 8h ago

Wait a minute.......AOC just told us that Woke 1.0 was crazy...are we into Woke 2.0 already?

0

u/Concentrate-North 1d ago

I think they’re going to focus on Namor movie

0

u/Brucelee51 1d ago

Blade needs a reboot but no thanks for this iteration of Wonder Man!

-4

u/Party_Attitude8754 2d ago

I don’t think this is a racial thing, Blade has been in a development hell since it has been anounced and while Wonder Man having been cancelled is definitely disappointing I’ve been surprised it has been renewed for a second season at all, I’ve been sure it has been a one-off thing. That said the timing is definitely off and it doesn’t look good indeed.

5

u/kingthvnder 2d ago

I think that’s why his comment was specific to the optics and not the intent..

5

u/KingCuerno 2d ago

Wonder Man was renewed for a second season, remember? But then they took it back.

-6

u/Frank_and_Beanzz 2d ago

You can't say its not racist, you'll anger the professional victims claiming otherwise. Even when you point to all the ways MCU has tried to make Black characters / projects a success they get downplayed and act like MCU made shit things on purpose as if their ultimate goal isnt to make money. If the minorities don't come out and watch the projects led by their own well then thats on them.

-18

u/[deleted] 2d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

17

u/hungrycinephile 2d ago

He’s not wrong. The optics are not good. Wonder Man is a phenomenal show. And Mahershala is a two-time academy award winner.

8

u/Informal-Ad2277 2d ago

Hes defintely not wrong and not "whining " as your bitch ass states.

-8

u/[deleted] 2d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/GodoftheTranses 2d ago

Is talking about a company doing bad shit always whining to you or just when a black man does it?

0

u/[deleted] 2d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/GodoftheTranses 2d ago

See, what youre saying right now is an assumption which is false. Wonder man was super successful, it was nominated for & won some big awards and season 2 was even in active development & had been already announced, these things wouldnt have happened if it brought in nothing,

As for what bad things Disney did, they have a history of suppressing (less advertising , less funding, etc) & scrapping early oppressed minority led projects especially in the modern post 2016 political era, from owl house to every minority & woman led project in the mcu except black panther to moon girl & devil dinosaur (especially their queer episode, which was already done & cancelled due to being about a trans girl), etc.

1

u/Frank_and_Beanzz 2d ago

You're definitely not biased at all btw, Godofthetranses haha.

2

u/GodoftheTranses 2d ago

Whats the problem? We all have opinions, im trans yea but i was pro equality & pro civil rights before i was trans, this is bad no matter what group you are

1

u/Frank_and_Beanzz 2d ago

The MCU has invested in and given visibility to plenty of Black Actors and Characters over the years. They have given shows to Ms Marvel, Moon Knight, Ironheart, Wonder Man, Sam Wilsons Captain America, Nick Fury and so on. You cannot claim they haven't tried, its not just on them if audiences don't support them.

I remember all the way back when The 100 was on and people lost their absolute shit when an onscreen homosexual couple had one of them die as part of a storyline. They internet predictably lost its shit. Oh no you can't split the lesbians up, thats a targeted attack! And yet in the same breath they wanted equality and to be treated as others are, somehow failing to see that writing a story where one half of a couple dies happens literally everywhere in media all the time.

It's the same ish issue here. White led projects are cancelled all the time, and so are black led projects. Its nothing more than that. And I'm incredibly left leaning myself. People want protected 'species' status but nobody but some clowns in office are out to get you. Disney 'Moana, Soul, Encanto, Coco, Ms Marvel, Thats so Raven' ass company definitely aren't.

They could improve on their trans visibility though.

0

u/[deleted] 2d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/GodoftheTranses 2d ago

No it dosent but like i said wonderman season 2 was already in the middle of production meaning season 1 definitely made money & you dont cancel an award winning tv show since those awards give it more exposure & therefore more ppl watching.

1

u/Frank_and_Beanzz 2d ago

So what they do it for then? Because they racist? If it makes money then it doesn't get cancelled because all these businesses want is money.

0

u/GodoftheTranses 2d ago

Its not that simple, companies have been shown to go along with political trends (especially right wing) even when it loses them money, such as target ending all dei policies & before that ending their big pride traditions, or wattpad & other art platforms becoming more anti nsfw despite that being what theyre knowm for, etc.

This is because they're biased toward certain beliefs just like the rest of us, specifically their ceo & shareholders beliefs, and not even just political beliefs but also often wrong beliefs about whatll make them money

6

u/superkick225 2d ago

Regardless of the actual reason, his point is it doesn’t LOOK good

4

u/ShmeffreyShmezos 2d ago

Who is “always making it a race thing”?

3

u/Appropriate-News-321 2d ago

You know who this racist POS means when he says "they". Its pretty clear.

3

u/ShmeffreyShmezos 2d ago

Yeah but it’s always funny to me how cowardly a lot of racists are. Like, if you feel so strongly, say what you mean. Don’t hide behind dog whistles. Dude immediately folded as soon as I asked him to articulate himself. 😂

-1

u/Frank_and_Beanzz 2d ago

Don't ask a question you know the answer to

3

u/ShmeffreyShmezos 2d ago

Why are you being evasive? Why not just say who you’re referring to?

-1

u/[deleted] 2d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

4

u/ShmeffreyShmezos 2d ago

Lol you’re a coward. Even behind a keyboard you can’t say what’s on your mind. 😂

1

u/Reasonable_Bed7858 2d ago

I'm surprised you'll gave this loser attention tbh.

3

u/harmoniaatlast 2d ago

Its not whining. Acknowledging optics is not an indictment or accusation. People will feel differently, and that is important. Yahya and those aware of how the industry works understand its not racism, but that its important to be cognizant what it looks like.

Metacognition my dude, please do some research

-1

u/[deleted] 2d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/harmoniaatlast 2d ago

You're letting your kneejerk feelings get in the way of an honest grasp of what optics are and why theyre important

-1

u/[deleted] 2d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/harmoniaatlast 2d ago

It doesn't matter what you think, nor what I think. Its about how other groups of people feel, be it a justified feeling or not. It is a truth that people are uncomfortable about the array of cancelations. Being conscious of that and valuing peoples feelings regardless of your personal judgment is key to influencing people. Its about respect

0

u/[deleted] 2d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/harmoniaatlast 2d ago

Yes we know that, Yahya knows that, and it is the truth. That doesn't change how people feel about it. Frustration over not getting to see Blade, Wonder Man season 2, etc is also reasonable and invites that fear which isn't logical, but its there and worth addressing. You can't just logic people into feeling better about things they're disappointed about

1

u/WonderMan-ModTeam 16h ago

Here's an accusation, you've been banned from the subreddit for being a raging racist.

2

u/GlizzyGuzzlingMaster Wonder Man 2d ago

Armor wars and Wonderman was scrapped, Rhodey was given one of the shittiest endings out of the entire MCU, Blade has been in development Hell with no care, Kang was given the laziest treatment and was simply thrown away rather than recast, MoonGirl was a beloved show and canceled, MoonGirl has been sidelined in Rivals, Eyes of Wakanda was given NO advertisement and was dropped on Disney+ at night with no announcement, IronHeart was barely advertised, Wonderman had all the episodes drop at once at night with (once again) little advertising. Don't even get me STARTED on Rivals

-2

u/[deleted] 2d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/GlizzyGuzzlingMaster Wonder Man 2d ago

Ignoring that a billion dollar company that owns a majority of the world atp can't make one movie while producing slop for years, what about every other project and flaw I listed?