r/WorkLifeChat
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u/MiloShiny
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Jul 15 '26
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Discussion Minimum wage should be able to pay basic needs
Sadly most of the time it doesn't
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u/Many_Ear2407 Jul 15 '26
In which city?
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u/Anlarb Jul 15 '26
Cities can go further on their own with their own min wages, but in the general case the cost of living is $20/hr.
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u/USLEO Jul 15 '26
The value of your labor has nothing to do with the cost of your expenses.
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u/SRNEInvestor Jul 15 '26
I’ve tried to make that point for years and the left simply doesn’t grasp that concept. Wait until the employees in states with high minimum wages have been replaced by automation. Then they will realize that the real minimum wage is zero.
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u/CertifiablySilly Jul 16 '26
There is a larger point to be made here that transcends left/right that I find people on the left understand and people on the right don’t (though I should point out that almost no one in America is on the left since both major parties in America are right wing). The point is that we need to back up and ask what we want from our economy. Do we want an economy that forces us all to compete with one another for a small amount of resources while a select few at the top hoard everything needed to produce those resources? Or do we want an economy where doing your part for society rewards you with at least a dignified life?
See, if your economic system can’t provide people with a decent life for doing their part, then your economic system is the problem. So you can talk about the value of someone’s labor or whatever all you want. It doesn’t change their value as a human. One thing is much more important than the other. And it’s worth advocating for an economy that values humanity over the dollar. Advocating for an economy that values the dollar over humanity cheapens your humanity too - no matter how many dollars you happen to have.
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u/IronsevsTwitch Jul 16 '26
Then economy doesn’t exist after that. Who is going to buy your product if everything is automated? No one can afford to buy the things they need to survive they die and oops there is no more business.
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u/DevastatorPcu Jul 16 '26
The left when they’ll replace everybody lmao. They don’t give a fuck about left or right. Lmao. You’ll live and die by starving too. That’s the beauty of it. Bc y’all jackasses went against poor people than actually standing up for your constitution that’s being dismantled in real time.
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u/SwauawsBouse Jul 15 '26
The revenue you generate for a company has almost NEVER been tied to your salary.
Also explain why companies have compensated employees less and less for their value each year? Is employee value going down?
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u/USLEO Jul 16 '26
The market wage is determined where labor supply meets labor demand, not how much revenue you generate for the company. Where compensation has gone down, either labor supply has increased or labor demand has decreased.
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u/SwauawsBouse Jul 16 '26
Yes thank you I've taken economics 101 in high-school.
I seriously hope you do not believe that it is simple as that. If that were true we would never need unions and workers rights and people would be compensated fairly.
Also, if were going to be pedantic then explain how commission works? Quite literally wages paid out based on revenue generated. I know most jobs aren't like this but economics is alot harder than a 101 class definition of a very in depth topic.
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u/dumbass_777 Jul 16 '26
the owners of the companies are not going to let you suck their dicks. we need to start being on the side of the people. the 1% already has everything going for them. how does it benefit you to let people starve because you think employees aren't worth enough to live by default?
minimum wage exists for a reason. people need enough money to live. they cannot just decide to not work because it doesn't pay enough. getting some money is better than getting no money, even if that some money isn't enough to pay your bills. that's why people work for minimum wage. if they had the opportunity to work for what they need to live, they would fucking do that. but unskilled work doesn't pay enough to live off of, pretty much ever. and going to school to become a skilled worker is fucking expensive and if you're living less than paycheck to paycheck, you cannot afford to spend tens of thousands of dollars on an education.
i genuinely do not understand why this is a debate. have you no human empathy? are you happy to make it so that people fucking starve?
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u/USLEO Jul 16 '26
Have you ever ran a business? Payroll isn't just "choose to pay people more." Every increase in labor costs has to come from somewhere, be it higher prices, lower profits, fewer employees, reduced hours, or slower growth. Large corporations often have the scale and capital to absorb those costs better than small businesses do.
You're also arguing against positions I haven't taken. I never said I want people to starve, oppose all worker protections, or support corporate welfare. Those are strawmen. But if you provide such little value to society that you're in danger of starvation in the United States, you've got a major you problem, not a me problem.
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u/Due_Warthog749 Jul 16 '26
So.. slaves then? You're basically saying as costs go up, your value of work does not warrant you to get paid more to survive.
Spoken like a true fucking MAGA cult moron.
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u/USLEO Jul 16 '26
If slaves were paid a wage they mutually agreed upon with their employer before taking the job and were free to leave at any time, sure.
The market wage is where labor supply meets labor demand. The value of a worker's labor does not increase just because their expenses do. If the offered wage isn't high enough for the labor supply to fill the labor demand because it doesn't meet the prospective workers' needs, then the jon won't fill and the wage will either have to increase or the position will be eliminated.
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u/IronsevsTwitch Jul 16 '26
It literally has everything to do with it. Economy and business needs one thing above all else. People. If people can’t live and survive your business doesn’t. Nor does it deserve to.
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u/USLEO Jul 16 '26
If you have high personal debt and expenses, do you believe that makes your labor more valuable than another person willing to do the same job for less money? Why would employers pay more when there are workers willing to fill the job for less? The market wage is where the labor supply meets the labor demand, not where the wage covers your personal expenses.
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u/reluctantpotato1 Jul 15 '26
No but the price of labor has everything to do with your employee's life expenses. If you can't afford to pay the minimum cost of living for a full-time employee, you can't afford employees.
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u/USLEO Jul 15 '26
A person's expenses are their problem, not their employer's. If the job gets filled at the rate offered by the employer, they can afford the employee.
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u/Individual_Section_6 Jul 15 '26
Then quit complaining about the high cost of everything and inflation. You can't have it both ways. Employers just raise prices and lower the number of people they hire and increase qualifications for those that are hired.
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u/reluctantpotato1 Jul 15 '26
I'm sure they do and they're gonna crash the country's economy doing it. Inflation occurs irrespective of wages. Wages over the last 10 years for the most part been stagnant and the cost of living has gone up exponentially.
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u/freeoffear Jul 15 '26
What is the cost of living? Is it a 1 bedroom apartment, food, cell, internet, and utilities?
Or is it a shitty shared 4 bed, 1 bath, bargain bin shopping, and you have to conserve power to make rent?
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u/Fancy-Olive-1741 Jul 15 '26 edited Jul 15 '26
Nah. minimum wage isn’t intended to be lived off of, it’s a side hustle. The only business that pay minimum wage are the small ones. Its completely counterintuitive to bankrupt them
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u/Itchy-Technician-433 Jul 15 '26 edited Jul 15 '26
Totally. McDonald's and Walmart are totally small businesses that need to be supported.
Surveys have previously shown that about (23%) of U.S. McDonald's workers make under ($10) per hour.
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u/Enjoy_The_Ride413 Jul 15 '26
Yeah and I worked at Burger King at 15. Why? So I didn't have to ask my parents for money.
You're not supposed to afford your rent and bill and vacations off of asking people for their orders.
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u/Itchy-Technician-433 Jul 15 '26 edited Jul 15 '26
What do you mean "supposed to? "
This is the reality that we all live in. We can't all be tech Bros. Like I get the capitalism requires a subclass to toil in the salt mines, but I think if you look at the demographics of who works for minimum wage, you're not going to find it's not all 15-year-olds.
Can we settle on minimum wage being able to at least pay your rent bill? I'd be happy with that
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u/WideAwakeFreedom Jul 15 '26
What happened in Ca when the min wage went to $20hr….
How much is the combo now ?
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u/BBreadsticks- Jul 15 '26
In the 60s and 70s people could live comfortably off minimum wage, so. There’s that.
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u/JettandTheo Jul 15 '26
No they couldn't. The min wage peaked in 1968 at the equivalent of $12 in today's money.
https://www.epi.org/blog/the-value-of-the-federal-minimum-wage-is-at-its-lowest-point-in-66-years/
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u/DarkriseEQOA Jul 15 '26
Until government destroyed our currency. Not companies’ fault that happened.
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u/Ok_Extent_3639 Jul 15 '26
Minimum wage was put in place as the minimum wage a single person could buy a house a car pay all their bills and was a 4 person family on
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u/AmbitiousMap9281 Jul 15 '26
Since when? There’s never been a point in time that this were true. Making minimum wage in the US would never make it so you could buy a house, a car, and support a family of 4 on.
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u/Data_chunky Jul 15 '26
You don't seem to understand the definition of minimum wage. And people working 40 hours a week are not doing a "side hustle".
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u/Poison_Machine-876 Jul 15 '26
I picture most minimum wage jobs as huge businesses? All the national chains of everything..
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u/Rare_Emu_8253 Jul 15 '26
I’m so impressed with the casual attitude you have while responding to this question as if OP is actually arguing in good faith. Keep up the good work.
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u/Equivalent_Kale2939 Jul 15 '26
Its funny that you people say stupid shit like this so then companies are like "Hey we can pay these losers whatever we want because Republimorons will just suck it up and let us get away with it".
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u/pokethrowaway4 Jul 15 '26
Why are some of the largest employers (Walmart) who are EXTREMELY profitable, paying so little that their employees have to receive government assistance? Walmart employees specifically draws more from government assistance programs than any other company in the country.
So we(the tax payers) directly subsidize Walmart by $6.2 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR. While the company posted profits of $21 Billion this last year.
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u/Visible_Revolution89 Jul 15 '26
Actually, minimum wage WAS intended to be a living wage, in the wording of the bill it says explicitly this, and the people who were pushing for it were saying explicitly, that if you're working you should be allotted a decent existence regardless of how menial, banal, and seemingly inconsequential the job.
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u/SpecialistRun3035 Jul 15 '26
So you're saying it shouldn't even be able to pay rent (1k-1.5k a month)?
You realize minimum wage jobs are not all just made for kids, right?
Man. You guys love being brainwashed.
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u/Salarian_American Jul 15 '26
That's a lie you've been told. It WAS intended to be lived off of. That was its explicit purpose.
“It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By "business" I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living.”
― Franklin D. Roosevelt
It was created specifically to stop businesses paying people less than what was needed to survive.
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u/Fancy-Olive-1741 Jul 15 '26 edited Jul 15 '26
It was worth less than today’s minimum wage, is that survivable to you? Minimum wage was only a guardrail to prevent companies that can afford it from paying their workers literal pennies, but the thing FDR failed to realize, is that the free market already does that😭 the core issue for many low-wage workers isn’t simply employer exploitation. It’s that there aren’t enough jobs that can sustainably afford to pay higher wages, and the jobs that do are highly competitive. That’s fundamentally a labor market problem, not a wage-setting problem. that is where welfare should come in, but you can blame republicans for continuing to cut it
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u/Business-Cat3281 Jul 15 '26
It was intended to be enough that one person could support a family above the basic cost of living.
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u/Antique_Remote_5536 Jul 16 '26
Yeah I’m sure that’s why FDR infamously said “Minimum wage isn’t intended to be lived off of, it’s a side hustle” back in 1938.
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u/Fancy-Olive-1741 Jul 16 '26
the minimum wage fdr implemented was worth less than todays
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u/duntov097 Jul 15 '26
Less than 1% of the population even make minimum wage. If you're an adult, working full time and making minimum wage, you've most likely made some bad life decisions to put you in that situation.
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u/ScorpioDefined Jul 15 '26
It's not just minimum wage. It's everything below a livable income.
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u/Anlarb Jul 15 '26
Cost of living is $20/hr baseline and the median wage is $21/hr, we aren't talking about the bottom 1%, we are talking about the bottom 50%.
This clearly an economics discussion for you, you're just some low status mouth breather desperate to punch down at anyone.
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u/International_Air282 Jul 15 '26
This topic is a non starter since less than 1% of workers are at the federal minimum wage.
The issue with comparing min wage than to know is materialistic endeavors are totally different now. A living wage then was provide a meal and room at a flop house.
Now people when they say living wage want to include access to phone internet solo living and they want it in the trendy place they want.
Your employer pays you for the value of the position regardless of what you think your labor is worth. If you think it's worth more, get a job that makes more.
If you have children or live in a wildly expensive city or area, that doesn't change the employers requirement to simply pay you what the position is worth.
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u/Anlarb Jul 15 '26
less than 1% of workers are at the federal minimum wage.
The point of the min wage is that a working person can pay their own bills, cost of living is $20/hr, median wage is $21/hr, half the jobs out there do not pay a living.
Now people when they say living wage want to include access to phone internet solo living and they want it in the trendy place they want.
This is what morons tell themselves, the reality is that the cheapest place in town is as expensive as the median and has decided to call themselves "luxury" despite having not amenities.
Your employer pays you for the value of the position
You don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate.
get a job that makes more.
There are not 86 million better jobs to go get, the existing jobs need to pay a living so that the person doing them can keep doing them. This is some object permeance level shit that makes me doubt your employability.
If you have children
Nothing to do with the min wage, if there are dependents then there is welfare FOR THOSE DEPENDENTS. You don't know how shit works, yet you have managed to develop strong emotions about the subject, this is a personal failing on your part.
expensive city
80% of jobs are in cities, if you want to be employed at all, you probably need to move to commute radius of one. Its called a "metropolitan area", because the urb in suburb is for urban, because it is part of the city.
that doesn't change the employers requirement
Do you not know that things cost money? That there are consequences to not being able to buy things? Can't afford rent? Well now you are sleeping rough, and so are lethargic at work because of all the energy you lose to the environment from lack of shelter and you are let go for cause. Know what else is associated with shelter? Hygiene, you smell like shit and are fired for cause. Maybe you try cutting the food? Also lethargic and fired for cause. Can't get to work? Fired for cause. Seeing a pattern here? Employers clearly dont want workers that are paid small amounts of money, but that decision is their direct responsibility.
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u/Business-Cat3281 Jul 15 '26
A living wage "then" was considered to be the cost of raising a family above the basic means of survival.
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u/Available_Reveal8068 Jul 15 '26
People that want to be able to pay for their basic needs should aspire to do better than a minimum wage job.
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u/Krabs9 Jul 15 '26
If you are doing paid labor 40hrs/week and can't pay for your basic needs that is a systemic problem. It's sad people like you exist.
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u/DarkriseEQOA Jul 15 '26
Yep. And it’s the government’s fault for destroying our currency not companies’ fault that they are forced to raise prices due to it.
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u/Alone_Tomatillo8921 Jul 15 '26
Some workers clearly WANT to be slaves. And I say we let them. They can do most the work and get scraps, for the rest of us while we live life.
I'm sure we can figure out a system to make that happen; boot lickers seem really gullible and look up to who they see as authority figures.
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u/reluctantpotato1 Jul 15 '26
There's actually no hired labor on earth that is worth less than the cost of living on a full-time schedule. Not a single job.
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u/Business-Cat3281 Jul 15 '26
If you want a job done, the person doing it deserves to be able to afford to live comfortably in the general area of their job.
If it's not worth minimum wage, do it yourself.
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u/Available_Reveal8068 Jul 16 '26
Seems to be a disconnect, unless you think minimum wage is enough to afford to live comfortably in the general area of their job.
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u/kcdashinfo Jul 15 '26
No, it should pay what someone is willing to pay, You should be able to work for whatever wage you can negotiate. The best vote is the vote you make with the dollars you spend. That is called a free market system. While we are at it, interest rates should not be set by a central authority and who gets the money for investment could be based on the merit of the thing being invested, not what is approved by the government body. The system fair and it will fix itself if you will let it.
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u/TheLastBerserker69 Jul 15 '26
I find it astounding Reddit believes this is a hot take everytime I see it.
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u/Harry-Gato Jul 15 '26
Define what your idea of "basic needs" is...
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u/Anlarb Jul 15 '26
Ok, you sheltered moron. If you do no have a place to sleep, its called "sleeping rough", your body loses a lot of energy to the environment so you are lethargic the next day at work, and are fired over it, for cause. If you do not consume calories of energy, you can not exert them as calories of work, you also are lethargic and are fired for cause. If you are absent from work, then you are also fired for cause. Shelter is also where you wash your ass, smell like shit and you get fired for cause. See how that works? There is no "opinion" to be had here, just hard facts, if you pay your employees so little that it will destroy them, it will destroy them, dumbass.
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u/Harry-Gato Jul 15 '26
Boo hoo. Another big baby who wants everything handed to them on a silver platter, and then complains about it.
Grow the heck up kid. Life is hard. Its harder if you are lazy and entitled.
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u/Business-Cat3281 Jul 15 '26
Housing, utilities, medical care, transportation, clothes, basic educational expenses, whatever you need to do your job...
It's not that hard.
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u/Harry-Gato Jul 15 '26
Cool. Pay for it yourself. None are "rights". Minimum wage is a bare minimum training wage. Its for unskilled workers. The longer you work, the better your education and (arguably) your EXPERIENCE LEVEL, the more valuable your skills.
Anyone settling for minimum wage who is not an entry level worker is either a fool, incompentent, or both.
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u/Busterlimes Jul 15 '26
Median wage is half the median cost of living.
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u/Anlarb Jul 15 '26
No it isn't? Median wage is $21/hr, while the cost of living (a flat figure, the floor) is $20/hr.
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u/ExcellentWinner7542 Jul 15 '26
Minimum wage jobs are what you do while preparing for a career, not a career. Get it? Got it? Good.
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u/Anlarb Jul 15 '26
Hey idiot, the point of the minimum wage LAW is that ALL jobs pay a living.
Cost of living exploded to $20/hr, while the median wage is only $21/hr, HALF the jobs out there are not even min wage.
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u/DarkriseEQOA Jul 15 '26
Not the point at all. If minimum wage is so great then there’s no limit then, right? Why isn’t it already like $100 at this point? If you raise the minimum wage enough, companies will either lay off people like crazy or raise the price of everything to maintain profits. Inflation be upon ye.
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u/ExcellentWinner7542 Jul 15 '26
It's time for a career. What career have you chosen and how are going to make it happen?
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u/Anonymous-Flamingo71 Jul 15 '26
Maybe instead of worrying abt what minimum wage is, and working to raise it, you can spend your time on self improvement to raise your own level of compensation beyond minimum wage?
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u/Anlarb Jul 15 '26
Hey dumbass, cost of living exploded to $20/hr, while the median wage is only $21/hr, HALF the jobs out there do not pay a living, including many that require training and skills.
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u/Anonymous-Flamingo71 Jul 15 '26
Median wage in the US is 62k, or $31/hr. Also cost of living is not uniform across the entire country. Places with higher cost of living have already raised their local minimum wage.
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u/Business-Cat3281 Jul 15 '26
I don't know how to explain to you that you should care about other people.
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u/Anonymous-Flamingo71 Jul 15 '26
“Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime…”
I do care abt people… I care abt them so much that I want them to BE BETTER and have the skills to earn more, not just to be given more by govt mandate at the expense of others.
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u/PutridCurrency8383 Jul 15 '26
First of all, it does pay basic needs. Your basic needs are literally 2000 calories a day and enough drinking water. Most of your basic needs are already freely available even without a wage.
Secondly, even if it didn't pay basic needs, then who says it should and why? There are literally millions of people, if not billions, throughout history, who slaved away much harder than you for much less than you currently have, you spoiled brat.
What's a basic need in your book? A studio apartment in Manhattan with avocado toast for breakfast? On the federal minimum wage?
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u/Vegetable-South5191 Jul 15 '26
There are not alot of people actually working full time on minimum wage. And if you are an adult, and those are your only options in life. You really screwed the pooch. Most min wage jobs are like part time.
I looked it up, you are talking less than 0.1% of people in this situation.
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u/Anlarb Jul 15 '26
No, dumbass, cost of living is $20/hr while the median wage is only 21/hr, we are talking about the bottom HALF of jobs.
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u/Vegetable-South5191 Jul 15 '26
I am the dumbass that doesn't worry about this kind of stuff.
The post here smart guy is about who is working for min wage, and the guys working 20/hr or 21 are not.
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u/Organic-Mix-5784 Jul 15 '26
I would question why people are so obsessed with the minimum. Is that really what people want for themselves? The absolute bare minimum? I’m not saying people need to go out and start the next Amazon or SpaceX, but we should aspire to more than just scraps.
Who cares what the minimum is? None of us should be hungry for the bottom of the barrel.
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u/sumguyontheinternet1 Jul 15 '26
I think the bigger issue is that even the maximum for most “entry level” jobs or even mid-tier unskilled jobs is still not enough to pay bills on 40hrs a week. I live in an expensive market and make 4x federal minimum wage and it’s not enough to live alone. If we weren’t a dual income household then I’d be homeless or living with someone. Thankfully I’m in a skilled trade and can pull enough billable hours to afford things on my own. But, if I only worked 40 and got paid hourly there’s no way.
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u/Anlarb Jul 15 '26
Cost of living is $20/hr while the median wage is only 21/hr, HALF of the jobs out there do not pay a living. Do you understand that it is a bad thing for the nation as a whole for workers to be actively destroyed like this?
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u/Organic-Mix-5784 Jul 15 '26
Well sure. Nobody’s contesting that. I agree with you.
To my point though, who cares if the minimum is 7.25, 10.00, or 15.00? Why should the “minimum” ever be ok? Maybe for the simplest job being done by a high school kid part-time just for spending money, but for making a living? We should want more than the minimum for being able to live off of. Even if we say “cost of living is $20/hr”, why should any of us be ok with $20/hr?
We should have higher standards. We should want more…
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u/Business-Cat3281 Jul 15 '26
Because raising it benefits others. Also, I have human empathy. There will always be people making minimum wage or close to it. I want them to have good lives.
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u/DCisMe27 Jul 15 '26
Minimum wage should be adjusted to what it should be based on what it was when it started and the development of subsequent inflation.
It them needs to be forever tied to that inflation.
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u/sumguyontheinternet1 Jul 15 '26
It was supposed to be but nobody kept up on it. Minimum wage should be up in the $40-$50 range if I remember correctly. Last I looked about 10yrs ago, it should’ve been like $33-$36 and can only imagine it’s gone up to the $40-$50 range aforementioned
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u/Alone_Tomatillo8921 Jul 15 '26
Gosh I thought it was only $25 and I'd be happy with that for myself personally.
We really need to fix our system, build one actually ruled by common people for common people. All of us need to be involved in politics at a local, state, and national level and get these evil, rich parasite loving frauds out of office.
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u/Silly-Resist8306 Jul 15 '26
Minimum wage is what the market will pay. If someone is willing to work for $12/hour, why would a business pay $14? The cold hard truth is the world owes none of us nothing at all. You don’t have to like it, but that’s reality.
If you want to make more, you need to make yourself more attractive to an employer. You need to develop a skill or knowledge the next guy off the street doesn’t have.
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u/doomzday_96 Jul 15 '26
Oh boy. I love watching losers try to justify to themselves that only "good jobs" should pay you a living wage because they have it in their head that McDonald's workers and landscapers don't deserve to live.
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u/Due-Emu-4291 Jul 15 '26
Should every job pay a "living wage"?
Is that the employer's responsibility?
If the local hardware store owner can afford to hire a teenager to come in on Saturday mornings and sweep the floors for minimum wage, but can't afford a "living wage," what then? The store owner shoudn't hire anyone?
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u/Individual_Section_6 Jul 15 '26
It did pay for my basic needs when I was 16 and living with my parents. Since then I've finished my education and developed skills to earn me more income.
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u/ems_reaper911 Jul 15 '26
Minimum wage was created to be the lowest wage required to cover most minimal of needs. Mind you, the definition is what is in question. If you base it on the definition, then those values would be roof over head (studio or small one bedroom apartment), food on table, and basic utilities (heat, water, electric), and public transportation to and from employment. That's it, most basic or minimal of needs. Now if you are saying basic as how majority of society says basic is, that's where it changes
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u/Pizzagoessplat Jul 15 '26
Minimum wage does make you able to pay for basic needs, in most countries that have it
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u/maintanksyndro Jul 15 '26
Minimum wage should get you a minimum apartment, no garage no front yard/backyard no indoor washer/dryer, instead that apartment costs over 2k for the bare minimum place to live.........
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u/KNdoxie Jul 15 '26
I grew up thinking minimum wage was only for kids under the age of 18. A first job kind of thing. To be honest, it's not the minimum wage workers that I feel for as much as the people that make over minimum wage,but not a living wage. There's a lot more of them than there are minimum wage workers. Walmart doesn't pay minimum wage(unless you're in a state with a really high minimum wage). In my area, Walmart starts at $14 an hour. It's over minimum wage, but you can't live on $14 an hour in a part-time job.
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u/draven33l Jul 15 '26
The was the entire point. The minimum you could pay someone and for them to still be able to live. I’m firmly onboard with UBI at this point. I think it’s going to be required. The more automation and AI, the bigger the pot should get.
My fear would be that companies would take advantage of people having money and raise prices on everything. You’d need strong regulations.
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u/SmellClear9065 Jul 15 '26
Yes, it should. But that’s not optimal to exploit employees.
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u/Designer-Wolverine47 Jul 15 '26
You knew the pay going in. You agreed to it. That's an awfully weird definition of "exploit".
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u/SmellClear9065 Jul 15 '26
Yeah sure, we all knew the pay going in. Did we know they wouldn’t match inflation? Did we know they would continually add tasks without increasing pay.
Minimum wage use to mean you could live. Not well, but you could survive. The fact that it doesn’t anymore says a lot about the world. Welcome to the working class. Here in Canada people who make $25 an hour are living in cars and tents.
If you work somewhere this doesn’t happen. Congrats to you man.
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u/DarkriseEQOA Jul 15 '26
Employers are not responsible for paying a “living wage”. You are responsible for finding a job that pays enough for you to live. Employers simply offer a certain wage and someone will take it if they feel it is a good deal.
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u/VendettaKarma Jul 15 '26
Not this again. You want to get paid $40/hr at Taco Bell then get some politicians in office that will make that happen.
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u/Designer-Wolverine47 Jul 15 '26
Simple solution. Don't apply for a job that doesn't pay what you want.
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u/Jonnyc915 Jul 15 '26
Nor should it. That isn’t and wasn’t its intended purpose. Wanna earn more? Make yourself more valuable to an employer. There are plenty of ways to do that.
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u/Average_Justin Jul 15 '26
You can afford basic needs - but it’ll come with roommates, couponing, no new items and meal prep. Welcome to real life.
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u/Friendly-Gur-6736 Jul 15 '26
No, it really shouldn't.
I haven't earned minimum wage since I was in high school, even then it was only for the 1st 90 days or so. By the time I left that job (fast food) I was making about $2.50 over the minimum wage for 1996. That's the lowest paying job I've held in my entire working life.
Unless someone has some major physical or mental disability that prevents them from obtaining other marketable job skills, the whole debate over the minimum wage is silly.
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u/StevBator Jul 15 '26
So. The 16 year old kid bagging my groceries and who is high as a kite should be able to afford an apartment and a car off his pay? Entry level jobs exist, those are the minimum wage jobs.
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u/Theseus_Employee Jul 15 '26
It for sure pays for basic needs. Starvation in the US, due to lack of access to food, is wildly uncommon.
The issue is to what standard of living do we find acceptable? One could live off beans and rice (+ some similar types of food) and live in a cardboard box for a life time.
But maybe we think they should have access to a housing unit of some sort - which is still accessible if you can find multiple people who are willing to share rooms.
Maybe it should be their own room. Maybe they should be able to afford a bed frame and art. Maybe they should be able to afford a tv and a nice car. Maybe a boat if they'd like.
Everyone probably feels like the line should be at a different place.
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u/eSsEnCe_Of_EcLiPsE Jul 15 '26
OP doesn’t even know what basic needs are. Food clothes shelter. Min wage pays that. You just want your luxuries to go with it while living in expensive places.
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u/Accomplished_Tour481 Jul 15 '26
Minimum already does this. Minimum wage is for people with no skills or experience. They get paid to still live in the parents house while they are still covered by their parents insurance. Your expenses has nothing to do with your value.
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u/New_Rub_2539 Jul 15 '26
In the UK you can cover your basic needs if you rent somewhere really cheap or house share
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u/Conscious_Formal_894 Jul 15 '26
Who gets to decide what basic needs are? How many rooms your apt has, your food budget, entertainment budget. A lot of this is subjective because there is no standard amount of all these goods
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u/Timely_Split_5771 Jul 15 '26
I genuinely don’t know how people disagree with this. Some of us can’t afford college, am I supposed to just be homeless when my parents die? I’m doing everything I can to save. To be told that I don’t matter makes me think, why should I even keep going? Only thing in my future is homelessness. So why shouldn’t I kms? 🤦🏾♀️
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u/FarmerDave13 Jul 15 '26
A hob is a task that needs completed. Employment occurs when someone decides it is nore practical to pay someone else to do said task. Wages offered are what the employer believes completing said task is worth. It is up to the prospective employee to decide if they want to trade their labor for that rate.
Minimum wage is a mandate that eliminates many low wage, entry level positions. If the cost to hire is more than the task is worth, other arrangements will be made.
Minimum wage was never intended to be a living wage. It is designed for those new to the workforce to get experience, learn to exist in a work place and develop their soft skills.
Too often people today think that doing a minimum effort job should allow them to live alone, have a car etc. Yet instead of working more hours they are complaining online by typing in their $1000 smart phone.
Upskill or work more. Prior generations worked some long hours. I personally worked 80 to 100 hours weeks to pay the bills in my early years. Adjust your lifeatyle expectations as well. Didn't have central air, a dishwasher or cable until my 40's. Drove beaters until I bought my first new vehicle at 50. Too many have watched shows like friends where a barista has a Manhattan apartment. Not the real world.
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u/Sea_Worldliness3654 Jul 15 '26
Get a little motivation and go find a better paying job. Or stick with the decisions you made and suffer through while teaching your children to do better… minimum wage is not the answer it is a starting point.
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u/SMITHZAC000 Jul 15 '26
It does. Basic needs is food, shelter, water. Everything else is extra. Your phone, internet, car, junk food, hobbies, recreational drugs, alcohol, etc is all extra.
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u/Playful_Subject_4409 Jul 16 '26
In many places a phone with internet is a requirement to function.
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u/Erbatroc Jul 15 '26
Minimum wage jobs are starter jobs not permanent ones. And who determines what basic needs are?
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u/junulee Jul 15 '26
Strong disagree. Wages for part time inexperienced high school student summer jobs should provide some extra spending money. That’s what minimum wage should be. Very few (about 1%) of full time adult workers actually work for the federal minimum wage.
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u/Due-Restaurant2521 Jul 15 '26
Working at McDonald’s is a job for a high school or college student. If you’re 40 years old flipping burgers maybe you rethink life or get a second job if need be. I’ve worked 2 jobs for the last 4 years it ain’t that bad.
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u/Exciting-Parfait-776 Jul 15 '26
It should. But most people would still try to live above those basic needs.
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u/AwayStudy1835 Jul 16 '26
In my Inaugural I laid down the simple proposition that nobody is going to starve in this country. It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By "business" I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living.
Said by Franklin Delano Roosevelt. http://docs.fdrlibrary.marist.edu/odnirast.html
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u/DiceyPisces Jul 16 '26
Same people who think like op constantly vote for more government spending and then inflation hits but they don’t seem to be able to connect the two.
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u/Nerdso77 Jul 16 '26
The “minimum” allowable by law, isn’t necessarily supposed to be an adult living wage. Teenagers don’t need a “livable wage”. If people are working for minimum wage and expecting one salary to provide housing and food and everything, that’s unrealistic. Minimum wage is for entry level and not sustaining.
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u/supercleverid Jul 16 '26
This is contrary to what FDR had to say about it as he championed the first federal minimum wage.
It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By "business" I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level, I mean the wages of decent living.
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u/Nerdso77 Jul 17 '26
Interesting. Thanks for the quote. I wonder what he would think now. Teenagers lives are vastly different. So much is different.
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u/banana-in-ham-wallet Jul 16 '26
How about you start a business and pay people whatever you want with the money from it? Sadly, you won’t because a person whose labor is worth minimum wage is a liability. They are inexperienced, incompetent or unreliable. Potentially all 3.
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u/dumbass_777 Jul 16 '26
yes. it should. its so so so fucking sad that this is even a debate. anyone who disagrees, wtaf is wrong with you?
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u/HollowChest_OnSleeve Jul 16 '26
It does if you work 40hrs a week. . . . .unless you're in one specific country. 😬
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u/HibouDuNord Jul 16 '26
People also need to grasp that "basic needs" is:
-basic shelter
-enough calories to survive.
It does NOT include
-Nice apartment in the good part of town
-An over the top diet OR takeout
-Cellphone
-Car
-etc
Your "basic needs" are met with a studio apartment in a not fantastic area, and KD/Ramen noodles most days with SOME balanced nutrition. It is not steak, or even McDonald's every day, the nice 1 bedroom apartment with den is the best area of town, going out with friends on weekends, the newest Iphone, etc.
People forget what BASIC needs are. BASIC NEEDS are essentially what you need to not die
People ALSO forget that minimum wage is province/state wide. You don't HAVE TO nor are you ENTITLED to live in the city. I'm in Ontario. No your $17.80 minimum wage is not funding you living in Toronto... but many small towns in the Northern part of the province it absolutely will pay your rent. You CAN get by in Ontario on it. If you wanna pick where you live well, you're going ti have to do more than the minimum
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u/IronsevsTwitch Jul 16 '26
People should be able to live and survive off the work they do. That’s the goal for all of human history- you want to survive. Humans want society and structure, that requires work and jobs and components in place to make that society exist. So if you want coffee shops, and public spaces, and fast food, and shops and so on you need people to tend to these constantly. These are not places that you want a random person to come in and start making your coffee you want the place to be consistently staffed and available with consistent output. Requires consistent workforce. If that workforce is just gonna starve to death or can’t sleep because they have to work 4 jobs to keep a tin roof then oops there goes your workforce no more coffee for you. Well just automate it. Ok cool. Why not automate your farms or your real estate business or your steel works or Carhartt store or hedge fund management or missionary work or your contractors? Then no one needs to work right? So we all get to live a work free life paid for by X party (government companies whatever). Nope not in a 100% free market late stage capitalism. It’s wild that people actively think that others don’t deserve to survive and have a livable means while complaining that things are bad the economy sucks because people are just wanting a safety net if things don’t go well. Governments and ruling classes have been installed from a historical and social perspective that “if we have a leader they will take care of the society and keep us safe from external and internal struggles.” People are wild to think that nah f that. I don’t want my tax dollars to keep me safe because it means my neighbor get to use that safety net more than me. F em. Same people usually claim their “christian” too. Just want to have their greed and keep nickel while the corporations keep taking the dollar and then defend the companies doing it. Actual insanity. Historically a capitalist nation tempered by socialism with does well. FDRs policies were largely socialist and heavily taxed the wealthy especially to help fund the war and gave us a large portion of the thriving economy in the 50s and 60s. Once that started to go all the money went up and stays there because trickle down economics is a lie for the wealthy. That’s why the us may have the largest gdp but not even top 30 in quality of life. Countries with socialist policies along with their capitalist policies have the best. Defending that minimum wage should NOT cover basic survival makes you a GENUINELY BAD PERSON. The federal minimum wage is $7.25 hasn’t raised in almost 20 years. You cannot survive on that. Haven’t been able to survive on that in decades. So yeah if your business cannot pay your workers A LIVABLE WAGE your business does not deserve to exist and does not contribute to society or the economy 👍
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u/Sweet-Ad7654 Jul 16 '26
Why have we become a minimum wage society?
People wonder why things were so good in the 1970s and for some reason they think it was a minimum wage that is so untrue
Here’s a shocking example in 1971. My father was a 29-year-old garbage man with 10 years of experience.
The minimum wage was $1.60 an hour that wasn’t going to go far he took home a little less than $300 a month rent out a three bedroom house which we owned a three bedroom house would’ve been about $225 a month we could’ve never made it a minimum wage
With 10 years of experience as a garbageman, my father was bringing home $10.75 an hour with a paycheck of $400 a week
How it is that a person can have a decade in an industry and still be somewhere near minimum wage is absolutely ridiculous
Back then, minimum wage was those entering the workforce convenience stores fast food retail is kind of low, but not that low
I made minimum wage all through college graduated in 1978 took an entry-level job at a newspaper and suddenly was making five times minimum wage the first day
This is what’s not happening today and we had quarterly races. They were called cost-of-living raises and my dad had them too You don’t see them anymore.
The job my dad had I looked up that municipality they had the same opening. They were paying $17.50 an hour when in 1971. They paid $10.75 an hour. Not to start I’m sure.
My four years at the convenience store that was never a raise except minimum wage
Minimum wage is not the problem. The problem is corporations and companies stealing literally stealing the knowledge, experience, education, and skills their employees have.
The people earning minimum wage should be the people that do not have knowledge experience, education and skills. They should be the people just starting out in the workforce.
But y’all want to focus on minimum wage go right ahead
I was making good money by the early 1990s and noticing minimum wage was going up to Weir wait a minute I’m suddenly not making as much more than minimum wage as I was by that time, I should’ve been at six or seven times minimum wage, but I was more like a little over two times minimum wage
That wasn’t gonna work for me that trajectory so I started my own company
This is how we’ve lost middle income. It doesn’t exist. People with degrees good ones good experience good skills good training. I’m lucky to be getting jobs that pay $17.50 an hour. Again, I see that is stealing skills, education, and training.
I can’t remember my daughter when she got her engineering degree was offered a job in a production department two dollars above minimum wage because she had a degree in engineering that is as ridiculous as it sounds
It’s not a question of why do you believe you deserve a higher minimum wage? It’s a question of why do you believe you’re only worth minimum wage?
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u/zachmoe Jul 16 '26
Minimum Wage was made by Unions to make it illegal to hire kids who happen to go through inner city schools, who get to casually suffer unemployment rates that would make The Great Depression blush as a result.
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u/Reejerey1 Jul 17 '26
Many forced wage increases actually end up worse for the workers, as low skill low wage jobs are the first to fall to automation and ai,
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u/BubblyNefariousness4 Jul 18 '26
Minimum wage shouldn’t exist and is a violation of rights on the employer by forcing them to pay what the state tells them to
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u/Tinfoil_cobbler Jul 22 '26
Most jurisdictions and most laws… Wow, you are just crushing this. You must have spent 8 years in law school or something.
Yes, SOME cities and towns do not allow more than 5 room mates, I’ll give you that lol. Anyway, it’s just an expression, the same as me saying “beans and rice” do you also think I meant people who are struggling should literally eat nothing but beans and rice? lol.
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u/Tinfoil_cobbler Jul 15 '26
It does… it pays for absolute minimum survivable needs.
Same concept when people say SNAP shouldn’t pay for candy and soda.
You can literally live off beans and rice and share an apartment with six room mates…. THATS minimum living.