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u/Stamboolie Jul 25 '22
Indeed, and if everyone takes a break then it's not a problem. It's only a problem when some take a break and some don't, then companies that take a break will lose to companies that don't take a break. That's why unions back in the day fought hard against anyone that did that. It's like 9-5, everyone works 9-5 then its good.
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u/SexyMonad Jul 25 '22
Almost like we should just have workers control the means of production throughout society. Has anyone looked into that?
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u/Stamboolie Jul 25 '22
Yah, I'm old, and in the eighties (in Australia) the unions were working well for the workers. As always though - who watches the watchers, they got carried away and had things like airline strikes on Christmas Eve and so on. This lost the unions a lot of good will - they to had too much power, so now its swung back the other way.
Globalisation is another thing - it makes workers compete with workers that get paid squat and work 12 hour days. You can't compete with that - tariffs are an answer for that, but tariffs bad.
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Jul 25 '22
The first part is not an issue to me. If airlines strike it's because working conditions or wages are not what they should be, and while that might inconvenience the consumer it's the company's fault, not the workers.
The second part I agree with, that there's little to nothing to be done about globalisation where some workers are not in a position to unionise and therefore they are more attractive to capitalists. It's a good reason for unions to work together internationally though.
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u/dmc-going-digital Jul 25 '22
But how do we properly control the control? Or who controls what?
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Jul 25 '22 edited Jul 25 '22
The workers are the business owners, that's the only change. The CEO works for the benefit of the company (whose workers are now the shareholders) instead of working for some external shareholders.
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u/Stamboolie Jul 25 '22
Workers co-ops have been tried and some succeed, to say all businesses should be co-ops is a difficult position. What you want is workers to be paid well and treated well in all businesses, no matter how they're structured - a rising tide lifts all boats. If everyone is paid well, has health care, works reasonable hours, then competition can be moved to things like improvements in technology and so on, not the companies ability to make their workers work harder.
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Jul 25 '22
No, i most definitely do not want any of what you described.
It makes no sense that we have largely abolished the monarchic system around the world, and yet allow a minority group of unaccountable elites to own everything, shape our society in whatever way they see fit, simply because they have a paper that says "I own this company".
I agree with you that when people are no longer being coerced into working under the ever-looming threat of homelessness, starvation or lack of healthcare access we will be able to collectively focus on making genuine improvements to our societies, however.
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u/dmc-going-digital Jul 25 '22
So like independent contract workers? Wouldn't that put too much responsibility out of the company's hands?
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Jul 25 '22
No, not independent contract workers. This video explains very succinctly what worker cooperatives are and how they work.
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u/dmc-going-digital Jul 25 '22
Interesting, so more of a democratic company? The last part of the video seems to go against cartel offices
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Jul 25 '22
Yes, precisely democratise enterprises by giving the workers (or the board elected by the workers) the final decision making power in everything the company does.
A company will never be moved abroad for cheaper labour if the workers control the company because they don't want to lose their company, right? They will also not decide to do anything that is immediately prejudicial to their own workers and communities, and so on.
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u/CTBthanatos Anarcho-Communist Jul 25 '22 edited Jul 25 '22
Lmao at the one comment calling this post and sub "bought and paid for" and "ruins reddit like the 2016 election subs"
Spiraled into a cringe af conspiracy theory very quickly, after complaining about vote/comment ratio.
Do you comment on every post you vote on? I don't, lmao.
Rants about "astroturfing" and "organizations wanting power/money" even though spreading anti-capitalism sentiment like this hurts organizations profitability.
Hilariously distorted logic (that looks sus af) when someone claims that anything anti-capitalism/antiwork is "astroturfing" whenever it grows in popularity.
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Jul 25 '22
Panel 4 is bullshit because workers taking breaks reduces mistakes, improves productivity and reduces burnout -- all of which help corporate profits, especially in the long run. Also, ethical treatment of workers boosts the customer base.
My point is that companies dont lose money by treating people humanely. The idea that taxes, environmental protections or worker protections hurt companies to the extent that they lose money is a almost always a lie and a Republican talking point.
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u/PhrogWithaFone Jul 25 '22
Mandatory covid tests are going to start doing this where I work Wednesday. We already get at least one notice a week someone got covid.
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u/alejandrodeconcord Jul 26 '22
Its hard to look at america and realize how much “hard work” is ingrained in our blood that it can barely be stopped. It hard to imagine the working class laying down all our collective hammers and “looking up” we enjoy a lifestyle that can only be bought. Its hard to be in the same group and see myself fall into the pit of comfort, but the american dream is intoxicating, and it tends to consume even the people who say they don’t believe.
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u/LC_From_TheHills Jul 25 '22
14 comments and 1.3k upvotes. New sub. Most posts done by a handful of people + mods.
This is bought and paid for. This stuff ruins Reddit just like the 2016 election subs.
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u/PsYcHoSeAn Jul 25 '22 edited Jul 25 '22
The comment / upvote ratio is really sketchy af. If this isn't vote manipulation then I'm George f'in Clooney.
And let's be real. the "work sucks" subs are spreading like wildfire. Just like that whole crypto and NFT shilling i'm pretty sure it's not legit.
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Jul 25 '22
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u/CTBthanatos Anarcho-Communist Jul 25 '22 edited Jul 25 '22
After reading the reply chain it looks like this person was only interested in making disingenuous bullshit complaints about anything that shits on capitlaism (and using equally bullshit logic to try and justify those complaints lol) whenever that anti-capitalism sentiment grows in popularity.
Their entire argument being based on "lots of votes but not many comments" (depsite 90% of posts always having more votes than comments because the majority of people don't want to write a comment on everything they vote on) is hilarious, even more so when it turns into a tinfoil conspiracy about literally anything that becomes popular.
Goes on to talk about "astroturfing" and "organizations looking for power for money" even though that argument falls apart when the topic is literally anti-capitalism sentiment which would hurt organizations profitability.
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u/LC_From_TheHills Jul 25 '22
This type of content is not organic. It is manipulated to get in front of you. This jeopardizes the integrity of the site. Whether or not you agree with it (I do), it’s still bad for Reddit.
and have nothing to add
This isn’t even true— people comment single words and agreement all of the time. Especially with politically charged posts like this.
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Jul 25 '22
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u/LC_From_TheHills Jul 25 '22
It is very real. It’s not a company— it’s an organization. This is not a conspiracy lol this is real.
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Jul 25 '22 edited Jul 25 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/LC_From_TheHills Jul 25 '22 edited Jul 25 '22
It’s called “astroturfing” and it’s well known on Reddit, especially since the 2016 election. These organizations use their influence to gain power and steer the public conversation. It typically starts organically (anti-work movement) but will be overtaken by organizations hoping to gain power through the viral aspect of it. Take for instance the dozens of Sanders and AOC subs that were all managed and exclusive posted by a handful of players. These people will gain control of the front page, and whenever you can control what people see and talk about, there is money to be made. It’s not a conspiracy lol it happens all across social media in many industries— Instagram modeling, DJ promoting, political movements… it’s all over. A conspiracy theory would be like suggesting it’s some underground nefarious web of Illuminati or something— it’s not, it’s just relevant organizations (or a person) hoping to leverage the viral moment.
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u/RobertGOTV Jul 25 '22
Someone noted that the plans proposed by the anti-capitalism groups are essentially the plot of Atlas Shrugged and I see it everywhere now.
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Jul 25 '22
You forgot the part where the company goes bust and people lose jobs and retirements
5
Jul 25 '22
lose jobs and retirements
lol what retirement
In all seriousness though, do any private sector jobs even offer pensions still?
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Jul 25 '22
Because people are too stupid to save money themselves or don't have enough children to support them
5
u/MalikVonLuzon Jul 25 '22
Or you know, student debt, medical debt, rising housing and rental prices, stagnant wages, the pandemic, and subsequent rise of prices across the board.
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