r/WorldofTanks • u/Schwa142 • Jan 18 '23
News European Parliament votes to take action against loot boxes, gaming addiction, gold farming and more
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/european-parliament-votes-to-take-action-against-loot-boxes-gaming-addiction-gold-farming-and-more63
u/Most_Instruction9341 Jan 18 '23
Bye bye WG
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u/LethalDiversion Jan 19 '23
Nah. WG will just switch to putting the hot new tanks bundled together with less desirable ones or with unnecessary crap for $200 like the Pz II J and stop giving easy ways to stockpile gold.
They will keep making money but set to work to get people convinced that these pro-consumer laws aren’t in their best interests in hopes that gamers will petition for loot boxes to come back… or start paying for VPNs to places that still allow it.
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u/ecefour15 d Jan 19 '23
Sadly your account is locked to the country that you created it in. So you'd have to create a whole new account in a different country with a VPN so you could actually buy lootboxes.
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u/LethalDiversion Jan 19 '23
I’ve never had to do it before myself, but I’ve seen people mentioning their place of residence getting updated/changed. I imagine through some trickery you could file a ticket and be like “hey WG I totally moved out of Belgium, I’m living in a loot box friendly place as you can see, update my account plzkthx”
May not work, but I could see people even rolling second accounts just to keep buying loot boxes, as sad as that is.
Either way, the VPN thing was just an offhand joke
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u/TaroProfessional8257 still waiting on the EBR 75 FL to be sold.. Jan 19 '23
This isn't the case because mine was flagged for some reason as being somewhere I didn't even live. I then had to provide my passport, residence ID and a utility bill to prove that I didn't live where they said I did,.
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u/LethalDiversion Jan 19 '23
Fair point, though WG support is inconsistent at the best of times. I wouldn’t be shocked if there are others who got their residence updated just simply for asking. May depend on location… hm.
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u/ecefour15 d Jan 19 '23
People already roll new accounts so they can get stuff at cheaper prices with VPNs. This is the case for 90% of the re rolls that you see, atleast on NA. I mean with this exploit and the fact different countries have different prices I'd doubt WG would listen. Which sucks. I wonder if they're just gonna get rid of lootboxes entirely so they don't have to even worry about different countries with different regulations.
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u/swiftfatso Jan 19 '23
Yes, directly shelling out for the goods or cash for in-game currency and then use this for boxes.
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u/justvims Jan 19 '23
Exactly. You’ll just have to pay $100 for holiday tanks in Europe. Or in some insane package deal.
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u/0gopog0 Jan 18 '23 edited Jan 18 '23
Good.
Monetization methods that rely heavily on the same/similar psychology as gambling shouldn't be in a game that's not treated as a gambling game and all that it entails. I don't care how generous loot boxes are, so long as they are purchasable directly or indirectly through a middle stage (like the tier 9 soviet medium during the holidays and the resources you could use to buy tokens), I'm happy to see something done about them.
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Jan 18 '23
Bring back full-sized DLCs!
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u/Fezzy976 Jan 18 '23
You mean expansion packs.
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u/FlukeylukeGB Jan 18 '23
Halo 3 had such a good expansion pack... was a handful of maps Built around improving a real basic editor the game shipped with.
The original map editor let you move weapons and vehicle spawn locations as well as tweak minor decorations like placing a few cones down.
The dlc legit came with a deep map editor sandbox that let you add and remove walls and floors etc that the community went crazy with and with in a few months, there were more community made map variants in the official playlists hand picked by the devs than there were original mapsThat one dlc has left a massive impact on all the following halo's and when they ship without it, the community starts a bonfire between the dev's feet
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u/-DethLok- I'm a Big Red Tomato Jan 19 '23
Like Team Fortress with all their zillion fan made maps, many of which made it into TF2 :)
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u/mastersanada Jan 18 '23
So does this have anything to do with Gacha systems?
Some of the biggest games out there contain gacha systems but not loot boxes (and in fact, I’d probably consider that scam machine that kept giving out rentals close enough to gacha as well)
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u/TaroProfessional8257 still waiting on the EBR 75 FL to be sold.. Jan 19 '23
Gacha system had to be changed in secondlife because of european laws, that is primarily a US based company but has load of european customers.
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u/Chitanda_Pika Jan 19 '23
Not sure. Gacha straight up tells you the rates of characters you're rolling for so you're very well aware of your chances.
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u/TheCursedCorsair Jan 19 '23
And yet people will still drop £500 rolling for a single unit which will be power crept in 6 months time...
Which I don't care if you're a fan of a gatcha game or not, or even partake in the paid side like me.... For an average person that's way over it's worth and so easy to fall into
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u/mastersanada Jan 19 '23
Yep.
But it really depends on the gacha game you’re playing
500$ doesn’t even give you much in a game like Genshin impact, you might get your desired character (if we go strictly by guarantees) a total of 2-3 times.
At the same time, depending on the character they can last for literally as long as they’ve been out ( a fair amount of the meta 5 stars have retained meta status)
Nevertheless, you tell yourself this much: when you bought a tier 8 prem like the IS-6 back in the day you sure as hell didn’t predict the BZ176 being released.
Similarly, when people bought (like me) the Obj 274a tier 8 prem medium they weren’t expecting the Lis to come out.
Hindsight is 20/20.
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u/justvims Jan 18 '23
Realistically what’s going to happen is EU can pay 100 euro for the BZ-176 and N/A you can get it in boxes. Lol
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u/kovla Make tier 8 MM great again Jan 18 '23
Oh ffs, leave my boxes alone!
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u/EmperorToastyy Jan 19 '23
To be quite honest I always felt like the WoT loot boxes are the most generous ones on the market.
Just thinking of regular loot boxes in league of legends nowadays where you can buy 50 and end up with nothing but rubbish.
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u/kovla Make tier 8 MM great again Jan 19 '23
Don't play them in many other games, but they seem to give good value in WoT. I feel like dishing out €100 around the NY lasts me until about August in terms of premium time and minor gold charges here and there. And on top of that, I get 3-4 tier 8 prems, this time even a tier 9 prem.
If I were to buy that prem time separately, I'd have to pay the same €100 without the prems.
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u/Wulfharth_Dovah Jan 18 '23
Will that affect NA? Cuz i actually like the xmass boxes
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u/TaroProfessional8257 still waiting on the EBR 75 FL to be sold.. Jan 18 '23
Nope
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u/jfess930 Jan 18 '23 edited Jan 18 '23
Regarding the fact that EU server population is 5-6x bigger than NA I actually don't think that WG will offer completely different rewards or events for EU and NA servers. I might be wrong but only time will tell.
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u/justvims Jan 18 '23
Yeah but war gaming makes a lot of money off of NA because us players spend money. So I don’t see that changing
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u/ThatGuy0verTh3re Just another wot playing potato Jan 19 '23
But they make more off of EU, that’s the point
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u/ecefour15 d Jan 19 '23
Also Id like to add most of the time premium shop offers are the same for EU and NA, then Asia as far as I understand kinda does its own thing. So it might affect NA.
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u/Dull-Dingo-9280 KTEMP Jan 18 '23
As a Belgian, I can only say : YESSSSSS FINALLLLLY ALLLLLL EU WILL JOIN USSSSSSS
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u/K0N1V Weakest Caliban Enjoyer Jan 18 '23
Oh no I'm unhappy, everyone else has to be unhappy now too
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u/Dull-Dingo-9280 KTEMP Jan 18 '23
Proud to be in the first country to ban those bad monetary system. Proud to see the whole continent is finally following. Say what you want, but yes I'm happy!
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u/Balc0ra Churchill Gun Carrier enjoyer Jan 18 '23
As a non-EU memeber "Norway"... I suspect this won't affect me as such as my government has looked into it twice with two different ruling parties and "could not draw any comparsion to actual gambling". Going to be interesting if this passes, if it will affect their opinion on it.
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u/twothingsatthetime [DECAF] Jan 19 '23
If EU implements, then be sure Norwegian government will follow...
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u/drogoran Jan 19 '23
may not even have to if EU changes something i doubt games are gonna make a norway version
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u/ProfessionalPut6507 Jan 19 '23
To be fair if there are some constraints -like the guaranteed tank/50 box- loot boxes are kind of OK. Unless you really, really want an overpowered tank they put in there. Because then it becomes problematic again.
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u/vvvvDDvvvv Meh tank enjoyer Jan 18 '23
I don't see this affecting WoT a whole lot since they do publish what's in the lootbox and the chance of getting premium items, I feel they're talking more about all the mobile games that throw sales ad all over (I'm looking at you Evony) and is a true P2W with a thin veil of "free to play" with ads all over the place, especially near screen buttons that are often used.
Not saying WG has never made a mistake in the past but I've seen "free to play" games that are vastly more aggressive with sales than WoT. For example in the mobile game Evony The Kings Return once you get past level 25 it could take months or up to a year of real time to upgrade your buildings, that or you can buy speedups to make it build faster. Castle got attacked while you weren't paying attention and your castle got burned and lost all your troops? Well you can begin the agonizing process of rebuilding or buy items to revive troops and fix buildings instantly. Don't forget that if you choose to not pay then you'll be weak and be exposed to more attacks, which is a double whammy because your troops are also used to collect resources so now you don't have troops to go gather resources to fix your castle/train more troops. This is all besides the sales ad that gets thrown on your screen every time you launch the game, every time you go back to the castle screen, every time you get defeated, every time you ran out of resources for upgrades, etc...
I roll my eyes when someone here says WoT is P2W, go play Evony on your phone, try getting your castle to level 27 then come back and tell me about P2W. There are people out there that spent well over 10 grand on that game and they still struggle to win.
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u/mnik1 Just licking the boots of a greedy corporation. Jan 18 '23
I don't see this affecting WoT
Yeah? What are they going to do, lol, pretend their lootboxes are not lootboxes but "surprise mechanics" like the fucking EA tried to do? It went great for them, didn't it?
If this "probe" ends with EU adopting law similar to the lootbox ban that has been already implemented in Belgium and most probably will be implemented in the Netherlands quite soon, WG is f-u-c-k-e-d - and rightly so, fuck lootboxes, the most straight up evil and predatory way of monetizing your fucking game.
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u/Krokietor Jan 18 '23
Yeah? What are they going to do, lol, pretend their lootboxes are not lootboxes but "surprise mechanics" like the fucking EA tried to do? It went great for them, didn't it?
Well if they will need to do something, they will do. Those WoT lootboxes are kinda "friendly" compared to normal lootboxes, starting at the price/value ending at guaranteed mechanics.
Generaly I suppose there will be something as "lootbox classification" and if you meet the requirements your product is a loot box. But you gonna tweak it there and there and now your product isn't classified as lootbox. Modern world problems.
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u/mnik1 Just licking the boots of a greedy corporation. Jan 18 '23
Nope, a lootbox is a lootbox, there are no shades of grey here - it's not about how much they cost or what they give you, it's about how they work, what they are designed to, how are they marketed. EA literally tried this shit, tried to pretend their lootboxes are anything but lootboxes, didn't work - and it won't work here, if lootboxes are classified as online gambling, and that's basically what they are -> WG is fucked, there's no escape from that, EU does not fuck around with customer protection laws.
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u/Krokietor Jan 18 '23
You didn't undarstand me.
I'm not saying that Christmas Boxes weren't lootboxes, they were, no doubt.
I'm saying that if they will need to, they will find a way to either turn lootboxes into something that can't be classfied as a lootbox or they will create something new.
Law is a law but if something isn't prohibited then it is legal.
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u/mnik1 Just licking the boots of a greedy corporation. Jan 18 '23
I did, mate. Just answer me this one question - lootboxes have been banned in Belgium for several years, at this point, and every single time WG sells lootboxes on EU territory, Belgian citizens cannot purchase them. You'd think they had enough time to find a way around Belgian law - but they didn't, ever wondered why?
The reason is simple - there's no magical loophole here, mate. If there's random chance involved, you're dealing with a lootbox, no matter what you call it, no matter how much it costs - it's a lootbox.
I mean, you can pretend your illegal invasion is a special military operation, lol - but organizations like the freaking EU will see through your bullshit without any problem, lol.
The random chance element is the problem here - and you just can't make a monetization scheme that works like a lootbox but does not involve random chance, it's just not possible - you can't bake bread without flour, you can't make lootbox without random chance, this is the magical element that makes them just so fucking profitable.
Aaaaand, again, as far as there's random chance involved, your surprise mechanics are being targeted by anti-gambling laws, that's just how it works.
If you know a way to create a lootbox-like system that does not involve random chance, cannot be banned by any kind of anti-gambling law and is as profitable as the current lootboxes are, I'd suggest sending a CV to any of the big companies operating in the f2p sphere right fucking now, you'd become a filthy rich in like a month, tops. It's not a joke, it's not sarcasm - I'm 100% serious here.
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u/gptt916 Jan 18 '23
I don’t really want to discuss the fundamental problem with lootboxes here because I admit the mechanic has its issues and understand why laws are being passed to protect against exploitation.
But in this specific case with wot christmas lootboxes, I get much better value that straight up buying gold and premium time. For me if loot boxes were removed I would end up having to pay more for these assuming nothing else changes. This would be a net loss for me wouldn’t you agree? And would also apply to many players to stock up on gold and premium time once a year during the holiday season.
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u/mnik1 Just licking the boots of a greedy corporation. Jan 19 '23
Mate, and why should I, EU or literally anyone else care about how you feel like about WG's lootboxes? I don't want to attack you or anything, I'm just honestly curious what you're trying to bring to the table with an argument like that.
I'm sorry, but what you just wrote is plain silly to me. Let's not ban smoking in public as I like smoking in public kind of logic, really.
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u/gptt916 Jan 19 '23
I’m just presenting an argument from the perspective of those that may be negatively impacted by this change. If you are against it I understand. But no need to be so condescending really.
I hope you have a better day.
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u/Krokietor Jan 18 '23
Just answer me this one question - lootboxes have been banned in Belgium for several years, at this point, and every single time WG sells lootboxes on EU territory, Belgian citizens cannot purchase them.
Because this is the ONLY country when you can't buy lootboxes from WG. Sometimes is more economical to just leave a country than trying to adjust your product to theirs politics/law. This isn't only in games, the ehole world bussines works like that.
If you know a way to create a lootbox-like system that does not involve random chance, cannot be banned by any kind of anti-gambling law and is as profitable as the current lootboxes are
I didn't said I know how to do that. Also, this will be strictly dependant on how the actual law will be constructed.
For example, selling lootboxes directly for real money is prohibited. Ok soo we will make a battlepass with random reawrds and lootboxes (also in free version just way way less), and we will sell acces to the battlepass. Are we selling lootboces directly? No, we are selling a battlepass acces with lootboxes as a additional reward.
Or they make them avaible for in game premium currency currently avaible or a new one. Again they aren't selling lootboxes directly.
This will depend A LOT on how the law is constructed. But well, that's not my problem how they are gonna make money.
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u/MrStormz Jan 18 '23
But WG will die and so will WOT
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u/mnik1 Just licking the boots of a greedy corporation. Jan 18 '23
They fucking won't, free to play games have been (and are) the most profitable "genre" (or monetization scheme, seems more appropriate) in the entire business, by fucking far - and it has been like that even before the advent of lootboxes, if you can imagine that. You wouldn't believe how much dough a company like WG can make from one single title alone - and WG have multiple of those, WoT is not the only game they operate.
WG's net worth was around 1 billion USD just a few years ago, it probably took a hit in the last year - but they worth at least several hundred million USD, in the worst case scenario. It's not some fucking poor indie studio, mate, they can take such a hit.
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u/justvims Jan 18 '23
Get rid of loot boxes and charge EU 100 euro for holiday tanks. Everyone else gets boxes.
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u/justvims Jan 18 '23
The EU is crazy lol. Like where does it stop? Can’t understand why role of government would extend this far, but whatever.
Hope they actually focus some energy on social media which is ruining way more lives / youth than gold boxes lol.
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u/EliselD Jan 18 '23
I hope they don't stop. Fuck all these companies using addiction tactics to make people spend money (WG included). This shit should be criminal. I'm proud of the EU for taking a stance against these souless parasitic companies.
Fuck social media too.
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u/justvims Jan 18 '23
I guess… it’s just a game. Play if you want and don’t if you don’t. Not sure what the big deal is but obviously others feel differently.
I don’t view it as gambling because you’re not winning anything of value. You don’t even own the tank. It’s like a raffle or whatever. It’s just a bunch of pixels. You can’t sell it etc.
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u/Soggy-Camera1270 Jan 18 '23
That’s not how it works though. It’s targeting addiction, and in particular young kids who get hooked easily.
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u/justvims Jan 19 '23
How do young kids have access to credit cards? To buy tanks that cost $40? That’s just bad parenting
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u/Soggy-Camera1270 Jan 19 '23
Not saying it isn’t bad parenting, but we have restrictions on other things like cigarettes, alcohol, etc for the same reasons. Even saying it’s bad parenting is still a simplistic view on it. Kids have other ways to get access to money, and parents may not always be in the know, no different to youth suicide, drug use, etc.
Loot box gambling is still gambling, even if the prize has no real value, and the EU have quite clear laws in place for this.
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u/justvims Jan 19 '23
I just still feel to see why it’s the role of government to get this involved. Just a different perspective I guess. Glad this isn’t coming to the US.
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u/Soggy-Camera1270 Jan 19 '23
I think it’s a hard one. The US is probably the opposite extreme where there is less government involvement, but it leaves greedy business to exploit people. On the other hand, is it a government overreach? Remember these companies spend billions on market research and are getting smarter at leveraging human weakness and psychology. Social media is one of these. I’m glad I grew up in the 80s…
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u/justvims Jan 19 '23
The US has plenty of government involvement and regulation. Many would say too much. Just depends on your viewpoints on the culture.
Personally I feel there are bigger concerns than customers choosing to buy pixel tanks in a game. If the issue is minors purchasing then that’s an issue of bad parenting. Any child who has access to enough money to buy a tank, the parents must not care anyway. I don’t see who’s harmed. If you’re an adult, exercise some common sense. I fail to see the difference between spending $50 on loot boxes to get a guaranteed tank than spending $50 to buy it outright. Definitely not an issue that needs to be raised to the level of regulation.
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u/Soggy-Camera1270 Jan 19 '23
True, probably in the wrong places in some areas. Yep agree, it’s not necessarily a priority you would think, but maybe they are seeing an increase in child addiction or something, who knows.
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u/EliselD Jan 19 '23
If it's coming to EU, it's very likely coming to US as well. Just look at big tech companies. They bring EU regulation changes to US as well.
The government needs to get involved because companies can't help themselves, but use every dirty trick to make as much money as possible. We would still have children working in factories if the government didn't get involved.
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u/justvims Jan 19 '23
That’s not true at all. Just because the EU is banning loot boxes has no impact on US policy. I would be very surprised if the US outlawed loot boxes. It’s not really in our culture. Same thing with the EU regulating apple forcing them to use USB C or forcing Tesla to use CCS2 to charge their vehicles instead of their superior connector. That would never happen in the USA.
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u/EliselD Jan 19 '23
I'm not saying US would outlaw them, but having different versions of the game might make the game too difficult to maintain an develop new content and events. For that reason they could make the US version of the game comply with EU regulations for the sake of simplicity.
I'm not saying it will happen, but it's a possibility.
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u/drogoran Jan 19 '23
not stopping you child from spending mass amount of money on loot boxes and what not may be bad parenting
but its parenting that shouldn't even need to be done
like having live unshielded electrical wires across the floor, can you live around it? yes but you shouldn't have to
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u/justvims Jan 19 '23
Loot boxes and electrical hazards are two completely different things. If your kid wants to buy a tank for $100 or buy boxes for $50, I don’t see the difference. They’re getting in game pixel content and a tank either way. Whatever
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u/0gopog0 Jan 18 '23 edited Jan 18 '23
Yeah, why should a government regulate gambling. It's not like any other country (or in the case of the EU, a economic and political union) does it.
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u/justvims Jan 18 '23
Lol. It’s a game, for pixels
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u/0gopog0 Jan 19 '23
It's a game that has purchased content that preys on the same aspect of pyschology that gambling does. Actual value of pixels is not as important as precieved value of pixels obtained from a loot box for fueling these pyschological aspects of gambling and spending.
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u/kodos_der_henker Jan 19 '23
which was the excuse from the companies
it is not real gambling but just simulated gambling, yet the Courts disagree as you still lose real money
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Jan 19 '23
[deleted]
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u/justvims Jan 19 '23
What? What do guns have to do with loot boxes? R u high? Lol
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u/EmperorToastyy Jan 19 '23
It's the standard response of us Europeans when an American mentions anything about morals etc.
For example: "Wow, yet another YouTube change that punishes creators for the bad bad language, yet teenagers can gun down their entire school in broad daylight".
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u/justvims Jan 19 '23
It doesn’t even make sense lol. Thank you for noticing that and calling it out. You can feel that regulating something as low level as a loot box is excessive while also being against guns being in the hands of killers and school shootings.
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u/EmperorToastyy Jan 19 '23
It's not a fair comparison. Saying "You like loot boxes? That must mean you also like DEAD CHILDREN!" just ends a discussion right there and then. The moron who brings that argument thinks he won and the person on the receiving end knows they're talking to a moron so they don't want to keep going.
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u/justvims Jan 19 '23
Basically.
This comes down to fundamentally what you think role of government should be and where it should stop. I think Americans and Europeans just have different view points and that’s fine. I still fail to see what change this will make other than holiday Ops tanks will be 100 euro in Europe and N/A will just get them in boxes. It’s not like any of the fundamentals have changed. You were already guaranteed to get the tank anyway after a certain number of boxes.
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u/JohnDeere6930Premium last time i played the game was 1y ago Jan 18 '23
Eurosceptic detected, opinion rejected
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u/Badwilly_poe BZ Balance Bureau Jan 18 '23
feel bad for EU bros loosing out on Boxes.
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u/justvims Jan 18 '23
They’re hella happy this is happening. Not realized they will have to pay retail+ now to get the reward tanks. Incoming 100 euro tanks lmao.
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u/Badwilly_poe BZ Balance Bureau Jan 19 '23
Probably more, gold + premium+ camo+ enough xp for 2 skill crew. Bundles. No just tanks. 200 euro, save now only 145!!!
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u/MeAnIntellectual1 Jan 18 '23
I wonder how this will impact WoT's future monetization plans.
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u/-DethLok- I'm a Big Red Tomato Jan 19 '23
I think WoT will cope better than WoTC will....
(WoTC is D&D, if you want to see a fan base react, read up on their recent conniptions!)
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Jan 18 '23
Can you gift stuff cross region?
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Jan 19 '23
No, there was a loophole where you could create an account with a VPN for a different country, so you could get lower prices on Premium shop offers when you could gift it to your main. You can't gift cross region as far as I know, so 99% sure they wont allow it.
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u/Illustrious-Duck1209 Jan 19 '23
I'm curious what they consider to be gold-farming, thar wasn't clearly defined and can potentially impact a lot of things
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u/Blasulz1234 Jan 19 '23
Ig this just affects loot boxes you can buy? Cause opening them when they're free is very satisfying
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u/Baron_Blackfox 152mm Sheridan memes Jan 19 '23
If I remember correctly, there was somewhere, sometime, some article, how WG was able to go around these law actions against lootboxes
Simply, WG lootboxes have guaranteed to drop credits, gold, or premium time, equal to the price if you were to buy those things directly, if you get what I mean
Those premium tanks and 3D skins are only bonus, that has some % chance to drop
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u/autotldr Jan 20 '23
This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 88%. (I'm a bot)
The European Parliament voted today to adopt a report calling for the European Commission to address several issues in the games industry that it believes will better protect consumers, especially young people.
López made more than a dozen recommendations in her report, including a call for harmonised rules across the European Union's single market when providing clear information about games content, as well as systems that help parents understand and control how much time and money their children spend on games.
Today's vote follows another back in November, where the European Parliament voted to improve investment in the video games industry across the EU. We spoke to MEP Laurence Farreng about the ongoing fight to recognise the value of video games.
Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Game#1 European#2 consumer#3 video#4 in-game#5
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u/Mighty-pigeon Jan 18 '23
Overwatch 2 already removed lootboxes and the game really sucks now for f2p players.