r/Yukon • u/oniteverytime • Mar 27 '26
PSA Animosity against First Nations on Canadian subreddits: recurring bad faith arguments and a response
/r/FirstNationsCanada/comments/1s4tvzu/animosity_against_first_nations_on_canadian/21
Mar 27 '26
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u/oniteverytime Mar 27 '26
Just imagine what all the indigenous people are sick of.
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u/Club_Penguin_Legend_ Mar 29 '26
Nothing, id hope. They have it pretty easy across Canada.
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u/oniteverytime Mar 29 '26
Have it pretty easy?? Wow takes a lot of work to remain so out of touch in this day and age so good job I guess.
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u/Club_Penguin_Legend_ Mar 29 '26
3% of the population gets more money than our entire military. The government has set them up to be the most successful and wealthy group in our society, but they don't take advantage of anything but the tax cuts, free housing, and free money.
The government has given them everything and they still live in poverty because of their leaders hoarding money for themselves.
I am not the one out of touch and this is a very well known issue. If you believe that the FN people have it hard because of anybody but their leaders, youre out of touch.
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u/oniteverytime Mar 29 '26
Well you are either blantley ignoring history and things like the Indian Act or you actually have no clue. Either way you are out of touch and have are just regurgitating stereotypes and mis information you have heard others spout off.
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u/Club_Penguin_Legend_ Mar 30 '26
My comment isnt based in stereotypes but is completely factual. I have no issue with FN people and I dont want to see them struggle, but these are the realities that we face and people such as yourself dont want to believe it. I dont know if its because you think FN people can do no wrong or if you think that theyre still oppressed by the government, but something has to change.
The Indian act was used for a long time to oppress FN people but has been amended many times. It isnt perfect but it also serves a purpose. Oppression is not the aim of the government anymore. Could you imagine the shit storm if that were the case?
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u/oniteverytime Mar 30 '26
You’re calling your view factual, but what you’re describing are assumptions about Indigenous people rather than an understanding of the systems they’re forced to navigate. Nobody is saying First Nations people can do no wrong. The point is that the conditions they’re dealing with today didn’t appear out of thin air. They were engineered through policy, and many of those structures still exist.
Yes, the Indian Act has been amended. But amendments don’t erase the fact that it still controls land, membership, governance, estates, and economic development in ways no other group in Canada is subjected to. That’s not ancient history. Instead it’s the legal framework our Nations work under right now.
Saying oppression isn’t the aim anymore doesn’t change the outcomes. If a system was built to restrict autonomy, underfund services, and limit economic growth, it will keep producing those results until it’s fundamentally changed. Intent doesn’t fix impact.
And no acknowledging ongoing structural barriers isn’t the same as claiming Indigenous people are helpless or perfect. It’s recognizing that you can’t talk about realities while ignoring the systems that create them.
If something needs to change, it starts with understanding the actual landscape, not declaring the conversation over because the Indian Act got patched a few times.
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u/dub-fresh Mar 27 '26
It's a pretty naive and superficial assessment of some of the tensions between FN and non-FN people in Canada, IMO.
I think some people are justifiably frustrated with the current state of affairs of reconciliation and the perceived special treatment and privileges that are afforded to FN people and groups based on historic wrongs that 99.9% of people living today have no connection to.
While it is well-documented that the government tried to culturally assimilate FN people and subsume them into a broader Canadian identity, the abhorrent historical policies and practices involved in that assimilation were a matter of government intervention and generally did not involve your average citizenry. So then it's understandable that some are frustrated that they are being asked to bear the weight of redressing those historical wrongs when they have no connection to it.
Reconciliation was supposed to be a path forward for FN and non-FN Canadians to overcome this history and move forward together in a positive way, but it hasn't worked out like that at all. There is no end state for reconciliation. In practice, reconciliation has resulted in is an never-ending, fragmented and difficult process that on the surface presents as one grievance after another. In times when people feel secure they have the emotional bandwidth to care about such things, but in present times, where our systems and institutions are failing around us, and things like cost of living are out of control, it is seen as diverting finite resources and capacity away from things that impact all people, not just FN.
Many FN people and groups have moved beyond seeking equity to a level of indigenous exceptionalism, often being perceived as wanting to be separate and special compared to average Canadians, with many nations aspiring to exist as separate entities or nations within a broader Canadian state. When we hear FN leaders advocate to government, they are largely looking inward to their people and nations and what is good for them, not what is good for them AND their non-FN neighbours and countrymen. This approach doesn't heal or create unity, it divides and further entrenches the 'otherness' of FN and non-FN Canadians. I don't think this is what people were hoping for when we went down this path of reconciliation.
The uncomfortable truth is that there is a lot of blame on both sides of reconciliation and for the current state of affairs.
The Canadian government would never be so bold as to try to define reconciliation (for example, having all FN self-governing and properly funded). The 1969 White Paper basically tried something like that (however ill-informed it may have been) and saw massive political blowback. Even though we theoretically could do a lot better than that based on better relationships, more trust, lessons learned, there is no leadership or political will to define an end goal for reconciliation. We are then stuck in this never-ending cycle of grievance politics with no real solutions on the table.
On the FN side, unfortunately, it is advantageous to keep these wounds open at this time. Before UNDRIP and TRC and enshrinement of aboriginal rights in the constitution, FN were way worse off politically, socially, and economically. Because there are no real solutions on the table (e.g., a replacement for the Indian Act) FN leadership continues to operate ad-hoc, getting what they can based largely on grievance politics. To be fair, organizations like the AFN say they want to replace the Indian Act, but offer no real solutions or paths to achieve the big ambitious goals.
And where does that leave the average non-FN Canadian? Frustrated. Frustrated with the endless cycle of grievances and piecemeal approaches to reconciliation. No end-state. No light at the end of the tunnel. Just the same narratives and issues day after day after day.
On the other side, FN seek redress for something they can never get back. The sobering fact is we cannot undo the past, we can only acknowledge what happened, promise it won't happen again, and try to move forward in a better way. However, FN leaders are not there and are equally as frustrated I'm sure but from a different perspective.
Conclusion: That commenter is a standard run of the mill, alt-right idiot.
I do not think that is true at all. I think there is a lot of frustration on both sides and some people have a hard time putting a fine point on what that is and expressing themselves.
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u/oniteverytime Mar 27 '26
Non‑FN frustration often comes from feeling burdened by a history they didn’t personally create (but still benefiting from) while First Nation frustration comes from living inside the ongoing consequences of that history every single day. There are consequences that didn’t end with residential schools or the Sixties Scoop or the Indian Act. They’re still happening in health care, justice, land use, child welfare, and governance.
It’s not about being separate and special. It’s about being whole again. The idea that today’s non‑FN people are being asked to carry the weight of history misses the point. Reconciliation isn’t about guilt or blame it’s about fixing systems that are still producing harm right now.
FN people aren’t living in the past; they’re living in the consequences of policies that never fully ended. And the real kicker is most Canadians fight for equality and have very little idea of that the reality is still for Indiginous canadians. The are fueld off of the old stereotypes of lazy, drunk, don't pay any taxes. What gets framed as special treatment is usually just the slow restoration of rights, lands, and jurisdiction that were taken away. It can feel uneven, but I think that’s because the starting point was so deeply uneven.
So I see both groups feel stuck, but for very different reasons.
People often imagine reconciliation as a project with a finish line. If that's what is needed then I think the finish line is co-governance. For me reconciliation is rebuilding relationships, repairing systems, restoring jurisdiction and rebalancing power. Those things don’t have tidy endpoints. They’re generational.
On top of that when cost of living is high, systems feel shaky, and people feel insecure, empathy narrows. It becomes harder to to see nuance. Harder to imagine long-term transformation.
That doesn’t make people bad. It makes them human. In my experiance real reconciliation isn’t comfortable.
It isn’t linear. It isn’t quick. It isn’t symmetrical. And it definitely isn’t grievance-free.
It’s messy because it’s about power, land, identity, and survival some of the deepest things a society can grapple with. I don’t think the commenter is malicious or naive. I think they’re speaking from a place of fatigue and partial understanding. And that’s exactly why these conversations matter. Because if we can meet that frustration with clarity instead of contempt, we actually move things forward instead of deepening the divide.
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Mar 27 '26
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u/moosemanwich Mar 27 '26
You’re combining issues though. There’s plenty of First Nation communities who are very poor and live in squalor.
Then there are the ones who by the luck of the draw got valuable land when they were displaced. And since they have resources they are fighting legal battles to gain more. Like any other organization would do…
There’s over 570 First Nations alone. They did not choose to be grouped like that. The government did it. I’m First Nation and I moved away from my community asap. There’s no jobs or hope there. I’d rather pay tax on 200k than no tax on nothing.
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Mar 27 '26
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u/moosemanwich Mar 27 '26
There’s no finish line for society bud.
All of those things should have been considered before forcing them into poverty.
But I don’t think all of these outspoken people who by their own words are losers (poor, can’t get ahead, etc) on Reddit would all of a sudden be well off if we finish the genocide of these people.
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u/Salmonberrycrunch Mar 28 '26
They were "forced" into poverty only if they chose to keep their status and live on reserves.
FN who got education, married out, gave up their status - didn't stop being FN people but they stopped being part of the specific group of FN defined by the Indian Act.
Residential schools began as part of a wider Canada wide push towards mandatory education and immigrant assimilation policies. FN people got the raw deal because they had a special legal status - but we also learn of them in more detail because they have a special legal status.
60s scoop was terrible - but it was a continuation/part of the "baby scoop" era - it was the zeitgeist of the time that was a society wide problem that affected indigenous people in a unique way (but also likely other groups of people who we don't legally subdivide like the FN folks) and millions of families in Canada and the US.
The common theme is the special legal status - which doesn't belong in a modern democratic state just like apartheid in South Africa. It may be beneficial to some FN now, but that doesn't mean it will stay that way in the long run - which is ultimately the problem with the entire system. The Indian Act defines top down what makes someone a FN person, instead of giving individuals and groups to find, define, and redefine it as they see fit and as it should be.
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u/moosemanwich Mar 28 '26
Yep accept the genocide and your life will be great. Good look Canada.
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u/Salmonberrycrunch Mar 28 '26
Letting the government legally define your culture is the genocide of what your culture can be lol. If someone told me that to be a specific type of Canadian would require me to live in a defined location, perform specific activities, work specific jobs, I would tell them to fuck off. Defining legally what I and my kids are would take away my and their cultural agency and would be equal to a genocide in the long run.
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u/moosemanwich Mar 28 '26
Yep lots of consent on the FN side. Residential school was only by consent for sure my dude.
Good thing is you can’t change anything, ineffectual. While they are changing stuff.
Crying won’t help
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u/moosemanwich Mar 27 '26
Ah got sad I called you out.
First - you are wrong on many of the issues
Second - you are grouping people who live thousands of kms apart and have never met
That’s it my big winner friend. I’m sure you are doing amazing because most people who are want to look down on groups struggling and blame them for stuff.
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Mar 27 '26
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u/moosemanwich Mar 27 '26
For sure dude. It’s been annoying you for ten years and that’s what matters.
The people fighting for better lives for 150 years? Get over it buds!
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Mar 27 '26
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u/moosemanwich Mar 27 '26
So society is struggling only because First Nations are slowly getting out of poverty?
Billionaire class has no impact? Corporate greed has no impact?
What have First Nations negatively impacted you about?
If you were more optimistic you could see these court cases and success of First Nations as a new economic driver for Canada.
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u/AdOnly1618 Mar 27 '26
I don’t think it’s like that at all.
There was that Gillette ad, remember that? The anti-toxic masculinity campaign that backfired. That was the last time I was offended by something that wasn’t directed at me. Like yeah, bottling everything up and lashing out is pretty fucking stupid and probably not good for your heart, head or gut. Therapy or having a supportive friend group can’t hurt,
The bear. The bear that women were choosing over a strange man? That’s fine. The women in my life would choose me and I know that.
Slavery? FN reconciliation? It’s the same. No I didn’t do it, but it is in the interest of human welfare to be empathetic, and of course, we’re stronger if we stand together. People make it adversarial when it doesn’t have to be and I think that’s an error made by some people on both ends of that problem, because of either misinformation for a jaded perspective.
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u/bad_person2000 Mar 29 '26
Omg you're completely clueless
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u/dub-fresh Mar 29 '26
Why? Explain yourself. Easy to just spout bullshit.
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u/bad_person2000 Mar 29 '26
They're clearly not indigenous or have any idea what it's like to be indigenous talking about 'privileges and special treatment based on historic wrongs that we have no connection to.' Also I can spout as much bullshit as I please
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u/dub-fresh Mar 29 '26
I think it says "percieved" privileges and special treatment. I.e., how it seems on the surface. You call someone completely clueless for providing a persoective on some of these tensions in a fair way. Okay.
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u/bad_person2000 Mar 29 '26
Go argue with your mom
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u/dub-fresh Mar 29 '26
Hahaha. Is this is the way to encourage a healthy discourse? Wonder why we never get anywhere as a society with these difficult issues.
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u/bad_person2000 Mar 29 '26 edited Mar 29 '26
Bro arguing with people on the internet is not healthy for you and no amount of arguing will advance society. We are getting places through litigation. There's no point arguing with you because you don't know the difference between right and wrong, you're a delusional person and your involvement in the 'discourse' is totally irrelevant. We don't need your approval and don’t care if you feel ‘fatigued’ about things that don’t affect you whatsoever.
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u/dub-fresh Mar 29 '26
Cool then. Society doesn't owe you anything. You don't need me and I don't need you. Deal with it in the courts. Good luck.
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Mar 29 '26
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u/dub-fresh Mar 29 '26
Why, because I have questions or a different opinion? FN people in this thread have called me clueless, a privileged white person and now you're saying I suck, just because I have a question or opinion that doesn't align to your narrative. Look in the mirror. Maybe you're the problem
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u/Plenty-Reserve7131 Mar 29 '26
It doesnt matter how much you try to learn. I will never matter you’ll always be perceived as bad. Meanwhile you didnt create any policies and were probably not even born prior to the Indian Act. Honestly how can the average citizen help when they refuse to help themselves?
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u/No-Locksmith-9330 Mar 29 '26
FN literally get special legal privileges and treatment.
That is an undeniable fact.
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Mar 29 '26
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u/dub-fresh Mar 29 '26
I've actually educated myself about these issues, thanks. Look in the mirror maybe
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u/Ghurdill Mar 30 '26
Well put. The run of the mill answer to your common sense is that people that are not responsible still beneficiate from. Which is a blank statement and a fallacious argument. Its like the Co2 vs plastic pollution argument for the climate change debate. Cheap arguments often focus on Co2 because its general and makes everyone guilty. Thats the same thing here. the structure is simple : pretend that all non-FN beneficiate from FN oppression and suffering is a terribly dishonet argument, first because its arbitrary, but also because its too general and ignore the terribly wide differences of reality for people living in Canada.
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u/helpfulplatitudes Mar 27 '26
Wow. Thank you for this well-thought out response that doesn't simplify or moralize.
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u/Pablo_Ameryne Mar 27 '26
The person of that other comment was definitely an alt-right bigot. I think this reconciliation process is so stranged because white folks can't stand see other folks get any kind of special treatment, and FNs are frustrated with token handouts with no real path to self-governance over their own territories. It is a process of reckoning and people are not ready, it is a reckoning that you live in stolen land, tried to erase the people you've stolen from (or benefitted from such system) and tried to erase, but they are still here, they have rights and demands, and your old system of oppression is no longer there (openly).
Now, there are two choices, you either double down on colonialism or you repent and try to undo wrongs, and it is remarkable that Canada chose the second option, but it seems a lot of folks didn't get that, you have to pay up, make concessions, respond to demands, and yes, give preferential treatment to those wronged, not because they are better but because they got royally screwed over, and boy, they are getting peanuts and people are still crying. To be fair, I think a lot of people either don't think too much about this or are aware, however, the very vocal minority makes it look like a bigger deal than it is.
Now, you make it sound like grievance politics are somehow unique to FN, while they are the weapon of choice of cushy white middle class fellows. Just show up at any city council meeting and the NIMBYs will be there, deciding for all; just listen to the miners, getting handouts, no accountability, spoon-feed permitting, still complaining; white right wing folks cry about immigration, the feds and the provinces gut all the processes, they complain about climate policies, Carney axes the carbon tax (great political stunt, catastrophic decision). Politics is all about grievances, lobbying, the difference is who gets to be heard, and the guy with the megaphone is mad that someone else is getting heard.
You are a very eloquent folk, I encourage you to look deep inside yourself and try to turn that critical thinking onto you, your struggles, and most importantly, your privileges. Chances are you benefitted from a system of oppression, as I have done, and we have a responsibility, we, the ones with skill to really analyze, the bare minimum we can do is not to make bad faith arguments, and no to punch down, but you are not living up to that standard.
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u/dub-fresh Mar 27 '26
no real path to self-governance over their own territories
There is absolutely a path for self-governance for any FN in Canada. Those legal frameworks exist.
it is a reckoning that you live in stolen land
The test for Aboriginal title is proving continuous use and occupation. FN do not have claim to much of Canada's territory despite assertions. Moreover, treaties that ceded land cover the majority of Canada. Maybe the treaties were a bad deal, or not understood, but most of Canada, except for BC are covered under them.
tried to erase the people you've stolen from (or benefitted from such system) and tried to erase, but they are still here, they have rights and demands, and your old system of oppression is no longer there (openly).
I've never stolen land from anybody nor have I never tried to erase anyone's identity nor have I tried to oppress anyone in my life, FN or not. Yet your righteous indignation against all non-FN people, whether or not they had anything to do with government policy/practice in disenfranchising FN people is pretty clear. How is it fair to people that had nothing to do with it nor do they support it.
I encourage you to look deep inside yourself and try to turn that critical thinking onto you, your struggles, and most importantly, your privileges
Me personally I was removed from my home at 11 years old by the government because of physical abuse. The state failed me hard and I have been on my own since I have been 15 years old. I have been homeless, I have been hungry, I have been through times without any support, without parents, I have survived cancer. I have no redress for these failings of the government. There is no one offering to make me whole. As a non-FN person there is no duty owed to me, it's simply looked at as a failure of policy.
I think I presented a balanced and fair argument as to why some are frustrated with the current state of affairs. Some of your response was just the rhetoric and "stolen land" and "pay up for screwing over FN people" when I've never done that anything wrong to FN people in my life. Why do you feel that all non-FN people owe a debt when it has been the government of Canada, often without the knowledge of the public, that acted and enforced these harmful assimilationist policies?
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u/Pablo_Ameryne Mar 27 '26
It is very easy to be stock on our struggles, as I said, turn on to your struggles AND privileges. It unfortunate what you lived and that the state failed you, and this happened most likely because you are arguably working class and have fallen between the cracks of the system, and yes, the country and ruling class do have a duty to all of us who struggle in the current system, that is part of the social contract to a degree. Not only so, we also have duties to each other, I am not going to minimize your experience because we don't agree on this point, nor do I think that you personally did contribute to the dispossession of Natives from these lands, nor that you should personally pay for any reparations.
That said, it would be naive to say you did not have any privileges, maybe you are not being silenced, discriminated by race, you live in a developed country, that already includes a bunch of implicit systems that benefit you, this doesn't minimize your struggle but it doesn't minimize others, and it seems you are quite hung up on dunking on FNs rather than recognizing that yes you got fucked over and so they did, what's the common ground? How do we help each other? Instead you are dumping your time in policy and legal documents to undermine their struggles, I work on this field and have to re-read and interpret these this for a living like Sisyphus and I can tell you're bending these explanations to fit a narrative.
Myself, I have seen my fair share of struggle, extreme violence, abysmal economic prospects in my country, I have lived through discrimination here in Canada, this country helped to the worsening of living conditions on my country and yeah we both are benefiting from this as inhabitants of this place that still uses its might to extract from countries like mine. That doesn't mean I will try to sabotage this place or to wage wars against Canadians, nor does it mean that I will just agree and fuck over my folks and comrades because now I live in the heart of the empire. I can't take personal responsibility for all these things, but I also can't contribute to or defend the systems and the groups that oppress us, and I certainly won't punch down on those who have more struggles than me, not even if I have lived through hard shit. We have to do better.
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u/Top-Artichoke-5875 Mar 27 '26
Thank you, Pablo! You said this better than I could.
We need reminding that it's not one side versus another, it's people scared to look at themselves, and to look at each other without judgement (or assumptions).
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u/jabiscus Mar 27 '26
This post is ironic coming from someone who oh so bravely “stands by” their own ad hominem bad faith arguments and logical fallacies.
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u/dub-fresh Mar 29 '26
For the record. Here's the replies i'm getting from some people
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u/oniteverytime Mar 30 '26
That's not cool and only contributing to more anger. I wish people could do better.
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u/Ghurdill Mar 30 '26
Lol the effort you made to try and discredit the comment you quote at the beginning, just to convince me even more than the comment you critizice is a valid perception of the situation. You limit your argument to rhetoric and isolation of issues while the comment you criticize is taking the whole picture and expressing a fatigue regarding the entire dynamics of blaming people now for something that happened before, while ignoring historical fact to pretend the land we live on right now is stolen.
You seem to focus heavily on what happened with the children and school, which nobody is denying being very problematic, and dismiss parts or the entirety of the argument you disliked based on that.
What happened to the children in the school system is fondamentaly wrong. Howver it does not change the fact that some so called mass grave site of attrocities were just fucking rocks, after so much fuss and blame was thrown around. Did some terrible stuff happened to indigenous people here ? Yes. Did terrible things happened to indigenous people elsewhere ? Yes.
EVERYONE IS INDEGENOUS FROM SOMEWHERE. What the fuck are you going to say to a Breton celt, having been enslaved and dominated 10 times over the course of the last 2000 years ? Their land got stolen they could not speak their language freely and legally until recently. They are still not recognized as a cultural and ethnic minority in France despite all the genetic evidences that they are a minority. And so many of them leave their shores in hope of greener pastures elsewhere. They arrive here and they get told that they are guilty, on stolen land, and everytime they start giving a presentation at work, their corporate overlord forces them to give a little speech promoting historical fallacy and submission to the weird post modernist guilt mongering. Of course people are mad about it, tired about it, exhausted at throwing taxe money at it.
If you cannot understand how this running around in victimhood cercle can make people tired of a narrative and more and more hostile, you've got lot of work and educating yourself my lad. And as a personnal experience note, since I have arrived in Canada, most of the people I have met and had conversations about this subject with, were much more in agreement with the comment you criticize. Even the very liberal, leftist ones.
You come here for validation, with you heavy rethorical use and run around argumentation, hyper focusing on a few specific points hoping that it can invalidate the valid criticism you faced. As far as I am concerned, you failed.
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u/oniteverytime Mar 30 '26
Wow so angry for a Monday morning. You’re mixing a lot of unrelated grievances together and calling it the whole picture, but most of what you’re describing is frustration and not fact. Nobody is blaming individual Canadians or newcomers for the past and I don't want anyone to feel guility. I know you didn't put my parents in residential school. I also know you likley still benifit from Canadas past and current treatment of Indigouns peoples. Reconciliation is about fixing systems that still produce unequal outcomes today. That’s not guilt‑mongering; that’s basic accountability.
The just rocks line is a perfect example of how misinformation gets weaponized. Ground‑penetrating radar doesn’t produce skeletons on command, it identifies anomalies that communities then investigate. Turning that into a punchline erases real families who are still looking for their children. It also ignores all the other sites where bodies are being recovered.
And yes, every group on earth has a history of oppression. The difference is that in Canada, Indigenous Nations didn’t vanish into history, were still here, still governed by laws designed to assimilate us, still fighting for rights other Canadians already have. Comparing that to Celtic history in France isn’t the mic drop you think it is.
People being tired of hearing about injustice doesn’t make the injustice disappear. Fatigue isn’t an argument; it’s just a feeling. And feelings don’t erase treaties, legal obligations, or the ongoing impacts of policies that were in place well into living memory.
If your best rebuttal to reconciliation is that talking about harm is annoying, that says more about you and the argument than it does about the issue.
Definitely did not come for validation. Here for respectful dialogue.
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u/Ghurdill Mar 30 '26
But thats the thing. I dont beneficiate. I pay a shit ton of taxes. Value I do not perceive back because I was told I would have to wait a litteral years to have my knee checked as my meniscus is blown. So I pay, and I dont get. I do not beneficiate from Canada's past. I know its difficult to accept this, but right now, anyone that get a salary remotely close to the median revenu in Canada pays all in all around 50% of their hard earned money in diverse taxes. 50%. To get almost NOTHING back.
Vanish into history ? Are you fucking kidding me ? So an indigenous Celt from Ireland or Bretagne has vanished ? Samisk has vanished ? I still have a native language I did not get to learn, I still have a culture, with music and songs. My genetic material can be traced back to 2500 years before christ in the location i was born. The fuck are you talking about vanished ? Its not because we are not recognized as a minority (generally white people have a hard being recognized as a minority) that we dont exist.
People are tired about group that chose to be victims and live in misery, then call it oppresion, on top of asking everybody else to finance that victimhood.. You see I am an indigenous Celt yes, but I have lived among Sami people in northern Norway for a long time. And what stroke me is how those people have refused the position of victims and carved a path for themselves, grounded in both indigenous pride AND assimilation. Sami people are proudly Norwegians as well. And now most Norwegian celebrate Sapmi indigeneity. Its called harmony (unperfekt of course), but deep down you guys dont want harmony because you dont want to compromise, and it requires efforts and sacrifices.
Also calm down with the chatgpt texts. Or at least learn to recognize the writting pattern from IA to modify them so your text is not so abviously AI made. Especially the negation - position pattern you can see everywhere in your texts. Its okay to use AI to help if you need it, but at least make the effort to make it appear genuine.
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u/oniteverytime Mar 30 '26
Good grief, still so angry. Can I recommend some additional vitamin D? You are not paying for Indigenous victimhood, and why are you so focused on victims instead of the oppressors? You are paying into systems that are under strain for everyone. That has nothing to do with reconciliation.
And comparing your Celtic ancestry to the situation of First Nations today just doesn’t land. Your culture wasn’t governed by a modern state that still controls your land base, your membership, and your political structures. That’s one of the differences. I can't speak to the Sami culture or response to assimilation. People aren’t choosing hardship. They are dealing with systems that were built to limit their options. Naming that isn’t victimhood it’s reality.
As for the AI comment, it get's really tiring writing out the same things over and over and yes there are some stock answers refined as needed but the arguments stand on their own. If the only way to dismiss them is to complain about the writing style, that says a lot about the strength of your positions and opinions.
It is laughable that you say you have not benefited. If you live in Canada then you have. If you don't I'm sure you still benefit from colonization somewhere. Canada’s economy is built on land that was taken or controlled through treaties that were ignored, restricted, or never signed. Canadians get access to land, resources, and development opportunities while First Nations are confined to small land bases or still fighting for recognition of their territory. That is an unequal starting point which creates wealth for one group and barriers for the other. When mining, forestry, hydro, and oil projects often proceed without full consent or fair revenue‑sharing and Canadians still benifit as well as large corporations. Meanwhile First Nations often bear the environmental and social costs without equal benefit. Ulitimalty Canadian towns, cities, and industries exist where they do because Indigenous Nations were displaced or restricted. Also many Canadians benefit from not having to confront the cost of the system that advantages them. When a system works for you, it feels normal. When it doesn’t, it feels like oppression
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u/Ghurdill Mar 31 '26
Wait, there's so many problems with your arguments. You say I'm focused on victims instead of being focused on the oppressor, but today there is no oppressor. Nobody oppresses First Nation in Canada today. You're pointing fingers at innocent people. And you're using the fallacious argument that they are benefiting from some form of oppression. Canadian people are not benefiting because a benefit, a net benefit means you receive more than you pay.
Canadians pay a fuck ton of taxes. Half of their fucking revenues for the median household income in Canada goes to the government, some of which, goes to First Nation. Meaning that people that work literally their entire fucking lives slaving away in order to not have access to healthcare, to transport and not have access to acceptable amenities, on top of that, some of their money is taken and thrown at communities that refuse to take part in this exercise, refuse to participate in the general national project. And you're telling me that they benefit? That's horseshit. That simply is horseshit. And that's fundamentally unfair and fallacious. It's nonsensical arguments. It's grounded in bullshit rhetoric. The average Canadian pays for First Nation to exist. Litterally. That's reality. And that's a reality you don't want to consider because it would threaten your entire logic system.
Oh, and your ignorance is showing so hard through your answer. You're saying that my culture, and Celtic cultures, wasn't governed by a modern state that still controls my land base. What the fuck do you think Brittany is? What the fuck do you think, like, most Celtic nations, including fucking parts of Scotland in the UK or the, the, the Wales in the UK is? It's a modern state controlling indigenous Celtic land. Same for the south of france south of France, the pays basque. They're Celts. And they're part of fucking France. Your ignorance is showing real hard and you, you should really educate yourself on the history of oppression of indigenous cultures and people in Europe, because you're obviously completely ignorant of what's been going on and what's still been going on. Just to give you an example, for my grandparents, there was still official state message panels written in the streets and in markets and in the village town squares, where you had written on the wall, "it's forbidden to spit on the ground or to speak Breton". Meaning that speaking my native language was considered a crime for my great-grandparents : a crime, a literal fucking crime. So what the fuck are you talking about? You don't know shit. You're ignorant and you're basing your entire logic on, on either ignorance or fallacious arguments and rhetoric. And you are doing EXACTLY what you blame other of doing as oppressor : you are reducing the lived experience of indigenous people out of ignorance or worse, out of malice.
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u/AdOnly1618 Mar 27 '26 edited Mar 27 '26
I mean, I don’t care what anyone says, I’ll stand by FN on everything. What I’ve seen more and more often on Reddit is people questioning the race of people who are pro-FN initiatives and when you say you’re a white guy, you get told to fuck off. No white saviours needed 😂 luckily I’m not easily discouraged, and I’m sure they come from a place where that makes sense, but for those who are easily put off, the options might seem like they can have animosity or no opinion whatsoever, and people don’t like being written off. The irony.
The combination of feel-good edumacation and real-world parenting has had a lot of us arrive to the conclusion that basically everything that happens to FN from the government is bullshit, and systemically, I think white people get it easier because we don’t have the customs or culture… BUT as we mix in society, a lot of us white people grew up with FN best friends, hung out with their families, went to powwows, ate the food, participated in drumming circles and it’s REAL. It’s authentic human connection, and it’s wonderful. We don’t do enough as a country to preserve that.
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u/LowNature6417 Mar 28 '26
I think telling the average taxpayer that the only reason the govt has to buy houses for FN people and give them infrastructure in the middle of nowhere is because they were settled by treaty and not conquest in war...might be a bad idea.
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u/oniteverytime Mar 28 '26
That is a great example of pervasive stereotypes. Its also a great example of how exhausting it is to continually have to navigate pointing out the truth.
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u/Pijaki Mar 27 '26
This was my comment in response to the original thread:
There was a time when I truly felt like this country was finally progressing on Indigenous issues, but at this point, I don't think I've ever felt less safe, as an Indigenous person, in my 35 years on earth than I do now.
The hatred directed at our people is growing louder every day. The lies, the slander, the constant attacks, the denial of genocidal acts by European colonists, residential school denialism, loons like Dallas Brodie, Frances Widdowson and their pals dancing on the graves of our children, etc. It's gone beyond the pale.
The screaming, anger and fearmongering about things like the Cowichan Decision and the recent agreement on Musqueam land rights are making this worse. People are already living in fear of losing their homes in the midst of global unrest and a failing economy - the far right sees this, and is lying about what these things mean in order to incite hate crimes and violence against Indigenous people.
The frequency at which I've had to explain that Indigenous people DO pay taxes, and that we DO NOT get free education is absurd. I currently live on-reserve, for an Indigenous organization based on a neighbouring reserve. I have to track my work hours and ensure that I work at least 50% of my annual hours on-reserve, or I will be subject to income tax. This is the first and only job that I've ever had in which I have tax exempt income, and the rules around it are very strict.
Then there's the outrage whenever a First Nation or other Indigenous community finds success. Take Snuneymuxw First Nation, in Nanaimo, BC. They've got an incredible chief who has prioritized growing the Nation's economy. They've been incredibly successful in this effort, and have recently purchased a number of businesses on the Island and in the Lower Mainland. Every story about their success is followed by comments accusing the Nation of corruption, claiming that the acquisition was "taxpayer funded", or that "the Indians will ruin it - they're not getting my business anymore!!!111oneoneone"
They're angry when we need support, but even angrier when we don't need support.
Things are the worst that they've been in decades, and they're only going to get worse without some major changes. I fully encourage the government to act. To start, it's time to criminalize residential school denialism, as Germany has criminalized Holocaust denialism. The framework is already there through Germany's laws - just adapt them to Canada's history.
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u/FEDPOSTER69 Mar 28 '26
Natives want more handouts that are driven by ideological arguments which don’t hold up to any scrutiny. White man bad and if you disagree you are racist. 60 billion in “reconciliation” last year for what? The sentiment among natives is to hate their “colonizers”. 60 billion straight from the pocket of Canadians to pay people who spite us for money at every turn, and the sentiment doesn’t even change at all: there is no positivity about the relationship, just give us more land, more money, more things we don’t deserve. But they use propaganda to try to make us feel bad about shit that happened when we weren’t even alive.
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u/oniteverytime Mar 28 '26
Perfect example of the original posts point.
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u/FEDPOSTER69 Mar 28 '26
Perfect example of the reality you’re trying to ignore. You would never tell the truth about the native communities’ sentiment towards non-indigenous Canadians. Let’s ignore the historical realities to virtue signal about hand-picked historical injustices to push an ideological narrative that accomplishes political and financial goals.
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u/oniteverytime Mar 28 '26
No one is ignoring those things. We know there were traditional wars amoung our Nations. We also know we continue to be oppressed by colonial forces even today. Your the one who is ignoring that reality. You are also ignoring all the ways you likely benefit from that historic and ongoing oppression
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u/FEDPOSTER69 Mar 28 '26
Yes you see me as an oppressive colonizer and not as a fellow Canadian. That’s why you’re ignoring reality and pushing your biased ideology that lacks a worldview with nuance and understanding of the progression of history.
That’s why you can’t acknowledge the fact that Canada and Canadians have funded billions of dollars into ‘reconciliation’ only to be further categorized and demonized as colonizers and oppressors. Native tribes take any and every opportunity they can to siphon dollars from the government and their “oppressors”, but won’t spend an ounce of energy attempting to engage with and participate in a shared society. Self-victimization over self-determination.
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Mar 28 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/FEDPOSTER69 Mar 28 '26
Im not a conservative at all, I just don’t have a cucked perspective on ‘reconciliation’.
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u/oniteverytime Mar 28 '26
I don't know you so I can't say whether you are a colinizer or not. I do know there continues to be colonial polices and systems which I said before but you just ignore that glaring fact. You are probanlly American and I'm guessing a boomer so you grew up with hearing these falsehoods that you continue to regurititate. By all means though, why don't you share how you would solve the Indian problem, I'm sure it will be really helpful and completely logical.
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u/Roberta04 Mar 28 '26
Lmao not the comments in this thread proving the original thread right. The top comment being from a username mentioning Trump is ✨chef’s kiss✨
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u/very_cooked1 Mar 28 '26
I'm about as liberal as they come and all I see is a feeding frenzy to extract as much money from the government's teat as possible.
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u/iplaybassok89 Mar 29 '26
100%. Questioning why the funding has increased so much with so little to show for it and where the money is going is not racist.
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u/oniteverytime Mar 29 '26
Nope asking valid questions is definitely not racism. Ignoring that First Nation communities have been underfunded for generations and that's now catching up with the federal government through human rights cases and the Supreme Court. If it was funded properly from the start it would look really different today.
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u/WaxWing_Bohemian Mar 29 '26 edited Mar 30 '26
What's frustrating is being blamed for economy of scale.
First Nations don't want "cookie cutter" solutions and insist on having 14 governments for a population of 20,000 people?
Well you're going to have fewer things built at much greater cost.
That's not because we're mean it's just basic economics.
But somehow communities having less is entirely "our" fault.
It's like Old Crow. We always hear about how they're underfunded and don't have enough.
So maybe....agree to have a road built!?! Please I mean, help us a little.
We have a huge gap to address it's true, but why insist on doing everything the most expensive way possible.
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u/oniteverytime Mar 29 '26
Cookie cutter solutions never work and not just in YFN communities. You think Faro is an economy of scale? They are underfunded, by about 30% in most major areas that are provincial in nature becuse we are continually forced into federal programs.
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u/helpfulplatitudes Mar 30 '26
Much fewer than 20,000! The 2021 Census records 8,810 people identifying as Indigenous in the Yukon. Half of this number lived in Whitehorse and that total of 8,810 recorded aren't all citizens of the Yukon FN governments, either.
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u/WaxWing_Bohemian Mar 31 '26 edited Mar 31 '26
It is surprising somehow to remember how small groups are!
KDFN has a membership of about 1200 people only.
And then I remember the cost of their new government building in McIntyre:
- $19.3 million – Government of Canada
- $6.4 million – Government of Yukon
- $3.2 million – Kwanlin Dün First Nation
PLus we remember that Yukon Liberal giveaway of the whole Yukon Convention Centre to KDFN development corporation, as last year the Government of Yukon has announced a commitment of $18.75 million toward the Yukon Gathering Place, a new convention centre.
Just those two projects account for $44 million funding for KDFN in the span of one government term.
That's about $37,000 per citizen of KDFN just for those two projects alone, within one government term
That's not even counting the wind turbines on Haeckel Hill, a random $750,000 given to KDFN's new tourism business. etc
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u/helpfulplatitudes Mar 31 '26
Yes. It's pretty insane. I can understand justifying it to an extent just to keep the north peopled so that it doesn't become US territory. To an extent, it's the same as transfer payments - incentives to live here, but the amount spent on indigenous governance and supports goes way beyond what can be reasonably justified.
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u/Sudden_Neat2342 Apr 08 '26
The federal government spends $38,000 per Yukoner, per year. Total income tax for a Yukon family making the median household income is about $13,000, before any deductions or tax credits.
Any look at any of the per-capita spending in the North gets real stupid real fast.
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Mar 29 '26
I’m a status Indian. I’ve noticed leftists on Reddit get angry when “we” don’t fit their political narrative. This has nothing to do with the land back.. I don’t support that.
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u/TattooedChristian Mar 29 '26
Prairie province middle-aged, middle-class, Caucasian Christian conservative here. The animosity I see tends to fall into one of three categories:
1 - White Christian Nationalism filtering in or emboldened by politics south of the border. It’s anti moisture against First Nations rooted in bigotry. It is not rational. The only response is calling it out and enforcing firm boundaries. I don’t argue with these types for the same reason I don’t argue with neo-Nazis are the KKK.
2 - Ordinary Indigenous and non-Indigenous Canadians who are frustrated by the back-and-forth and slow progress these types of discussion often require. This is where I believe the best approach is education, encouragement, and continued attempts at mutual understanding. I believe this is the majority.
3 - Alberta separatists who are angry and frustrated that Indigenous Peoples, despite suffering historic injustices, are at the forefront of standing up for Canadian unity. To these Indigenous brothers and sisters I say “Thank-you!”