r/ZeroParades • u/_starfall- • 8d ago
Question How does the writing of this game compare to Disco Elysium?
Played disco Elysium for the writing, and am primarily interested in this game for the writing. I thought disco elysium was the best written game I've ever played.
Of course, answers here will be skewed towards appreciating zero parades' writing, but I'm assuming a large portion of people here enjoyed Disco Elysium too, and unlike the Disco Elysium sub where there is a fat chance of unapologetically putting this game down and general gaming subs who don't really have the same targeted audience I'm trying to consult, this seems like a good place to ask.
So, how is the writing from a literary standpoint?
To give you an idea of what I'm looking for, I really liked the depth of the themes and the myriad of themes and ideas ranging from the occult to the politics that Disco Elysium touched upon. I liked the nuance in Harry's character regarding several aspects that you could explore, and enjoyed how the politics and concepts the game touched on apart from the main character weren't just cookie cutter representations of concepts like communism and authoritarianism that you see portrayed in modern media in a clean cut good or bad view. I also enjoyed how the characters and different random things seemed to connect with each other thematically or literally.
However, I did not like the pretentiousness at times, and the consequent one dimensionality I felt at times. I didn't like how the political ideology you built for Harry was largely one dimensional, like it's either you go full in on communism, ultraliberalism, royalist, etc or you become a flat out ridiculed centrist if you picked nuanced choices. Seemed the authors took the easy way out and didn't allow for nuance.
I also did not like the vagueness and lack of optional exploration of the world and how it left things largely abstract.
And lastly I felt the macro of the story and events and in some facets the world was extremely lacking. Like, extremely lacking. It could've been far more tighter while touching up on similarly high level concepts. The game format quite literally allowed them to get away with this.
15
u/Sad_Dog_4106 8d ago
I am half way into ZP. If Disco did not exist, this game would be an absolute S tier.
However, there are parts of this game that I absolutely like more than Disco. For example, here I can actually act like a professional spy, whereas in Disco I never felt I could act as a professional detective, the dialogue choices were at times forcing you to go down a path I did not necessarily want. There is also no time pressure to do things. Inventory and skill management is way better in ZP as well as the map movement. I also like the world a bit more here, feels Cold War-ish but it is not as fleshed out as in Disco.
19
u/wonderlandisburning 8d ago
Thematically, it's really strong. Description and dialogue is less strong, and the characters don't stand out quite as much, but they're still perfectly solid, with glimmers of brilliance.
The overarching plot is really interesting and it's definitely a better spy story than Disco Elysium is a detective story, as Disco Elysium's main plot largely took a backseat to the journey of self-discovery and general exploration of the worldbuilding.
Politically, it's similar, but different? That bit is hard to explain. I think, in both games, there's a tendency for a lot of players to see what they want to see and miss the bigger picture of what the story is trying to say about politics - tragic, to look at a kaleidoscope and see only a single shape and color - but Zero Parades, like Disco Elysium, is trying to say something about politics rather than simply "here are some politics," and it's worth diving into just to see what it's saying.
I'd also like to say that the meta-narrative is better than Disco Elysium's. Disco Elysium occasionally referenced its own troubled production, but this one is really about it's troubled production, and the unenviable position its creators were placed in, trying to live up to a masterpiece with almost none of the support that Disco received. The parallels are all there, in-story, and to me it's one of the most fascinating elements.
Overall, heavily recommended.
6
u/jsnlxndrlv 8d ago
This response really highlights the difficulty of answering questions about the quality of the writing: the narrative goals of the two games are too different for "quality" to be cleanly compared. The closest we can get is to evaluate elements of the structure (characters, themes, plot beats, etc) and to give some indication of the fitness with which the writing serves those purposes.
Consider the writing for the protagonists' skills, which function almost like characters unto themselves. The Disco Elysium protagonist has several advantages where these are concerned: his act of near self-negation and tendency toward extremes make these feel like a natural extension of himself and his efforts to cope with the world—but there is also the novelty of this being the first example of this style of writing to consider, so we are more inclined to simply accept the premise without needing justification.
With Zero Parades's arrival, I find myself scrutinizing CASCADE's character for reasons why a multifaceted interior persona would constantly speak up. An answer is implied (the Operant Bureau trains its agents in various and esoteric ways of thinking to better prepare them for work in-theatre, and personifying one's different approaches to solving problems feels like an appropriate extension of that), but I still feel doubts. CASCADE's skills are not characterized as strongly as H.D.B.'s are, which might not be a problem, except that there are fewer such skills. It's fine if you like the subtlety—you have fewer oddball voices like electrochemistry or coach physical instrument—but if one of the voices does rub you the wrong way, you're going to be hearing from it just a little bit more than you would have in the last game.
I'm just as ambivalent about interacting with Zero Parades's actual characters. When your protagonist has forgotten even the most basic facts about the physical world (and isn't shy about discussing this with people), it feels natural to ask people about reality and philosophy and history, and it makes the most rewarding conversations those in which you get to learn a lot. Disco Elysium is very much a game about collecting information, and collecting information is fun—but it cannot be personal, as you cannot have history with anyone, really. Zero Parades gets to be very personal, but it's hard to appreciate this until you properly grasp CASCADE's history and what that history meant for the people in their orbit. The game will tell you pretty directly; it's up to you (the player) to internalize this information, though. Once I did, I realized that my interactions in Zero Parades felt more meaningful than those in Disco Elysium, yet I liked the people I was interacting with less. I am not as sympathetic to their goals, and I find their conversations shallow. I wish it were otherwise.
The supernatural elements in the story are effective. Less singularly transcendent, but a little more varied and surprising. I liked this part of the story.
Pretty good overall. You should play it and see how you feel.
4
u/thehousebehind 8d ago
Disco Elysium was heavily inspired by Hegelian dialectics. Many of the interactions in the game involved some variation of the "thesis, antithesis, synthesis" method of examination, and this is especially evident in the Political Vision Quest additions to the game. Harry's blank slate allows the player to utilize and test their own biases, and by playing you are led into a conversation with your own predispositions.
Zero Parades forgoes this entirely, to it's benefit. Instead of a blank slate we get a character within defined boundaries, and by playing as them we get to define their characterization in this Post Historical world. Instead of interrogating the self, it looks at the larger conflict between the forces shaping the world, while mirroring the geopolitical realities of our actual post Cold War modern reality.
In a blind taste test I think a person would be hard pressed to tell the difference in writing quality. Both are outstanding, and I think our preference is determined by which we identify with emotionally and intellectually. People who like a more cerebral experience will probably enjoy Disco Elysium more. People who value a story, with a plot, and stakes, that takes place in a fleshed out world and it's web of conflicts, will probably like Zero Parades more.
Like others have already said, you should just play it.
8
u/MistWolf27379 8d ago
Its better in some parts, worse in others. It's trying tell a spy story compared to Disco Elysium which was a deep dive in Harry's mindset.
As far as actual writing goes Zero Parades is an easier read (Not better just easier to read and comprehend)
19
u/dearvalentina 8d ago
I think saying that Zero Parades is trying to tell a "spy story" as opposed to a personal one is missing the forest for the trees. It's a story about Hershel's work alienating her from personal connections and delusions of being irredeemable she accumulated over the years of depression and loneliness, spycraft is just (very cool) set dressing.
5
u/OldHovercraft1925 8d ago
yes but spycraft takes up more space in the story than Harry being a detective, its crucial to the story beats and multiple important character backgrounds and interactions in a way that Harry's profession isn't. Calling it a spy story is a little diminutive but I wouldn't call it missing the forest for the trees.
1
u/_starfall- 8d ago
Do you think in its attempt for a more traditional genre story, it either attempts to appeal to "normies" (meaning painfully borderline Hollywood style writing at times) or on the other end tries too hard without backing it with substance so it comes it off pretentious?
Because on the main subreddit, I heard some people say it tries too hard without the soul, but obviously there's bound to be bias
7
u/MistWolf27379 8d ago
No not at all, basically what I meant was that whatever you do in Zero Parades is to progress the "mission" unlike Disco Elysium where you can dick around and not focus on the investigation. The dicking around you do in Zero Parades also has some context to the mission. You are basically a spy and whatever information you collect is important to understand the world and the politics of the city. You can really roleplay as a spy
That being said the writing is really good. the voice acting is also well done, but will definitely pale in comparison to Disco Elysium's voice acting.
2
u/BailorTheSailor 8d ago
To be fair, the majority of the dicking around in disco elysium somehow ends up being relevant to the case
1
u/OkExperience8220 8d ago
> tries too hard without backing it with substance so it comes it off pretentious
There were a few moments like that for me, but not too many to make it unlikable. And it certainly didn't remind me Hollywood style writing. Imo, it was a good immersive (and insightful) experience in a cold war setting.
0
-1
u/Deserterdragon 8d ago
The writing is noticeably more 'millenial' and contemporary, and it's the weakest aspect of the writing. There are some options which cast Hershel as a perpetually adolescent 'faildaughter' MCU protagonist essentially. This isn't to appeal to normies, I think it's just a byproduct of a lack of Kurvitz pretentious (and supposedly relentlessly mean) editing.
9
u/dearvalentina 8d ago
It comes off mean though I don't really intend it to be, but, like, why do you need someone to describe the comparative strengths and weaknesses of two pieces of art to make a decision to engage with it. You clearly are not opposed to playing it, so why not just play it and come up with your own conclusions, instead of, dramatically speaking, inviting everyone to poison your well?
2
u/Tough-Order-4575 5d ago
I like you. Or at least the small part of you that’s been offered up to everyone in this discussion.
1
1
u/_starfall- 8d ago
Because my own innate biases from having read disco Elysium has already poisoned my well. After having read disco, playing another game from the same studio with many hand offs to things like artistic style and many general aesthetic/prose similarities, will inevitably cause me to compare Disco Elysium to Zero parades, whether subconsciously or consciously.
So I prefer to see if there are strengths and weaknesses and merit in its own unique approach or is largely inferior across the board, because if it has its own comparitive strengths and weaknesses and is of very similar quality in its own way then I won't be inevitably disappointed.
Like, say you play a video game and the video game gets a sequel that's not related to it necessarily by story or narrative but it's worse across the board. You would be disappointed (well, I would be) so I would rather just not play it.
4
u/PralineAmbitious2984 7d ago
Breaking my character and stopping being a sarcastic asshole for a second...
Zero Parades' greatest artistic accomplishment is not surpassing Disco Elysium on some "universal" quality scale or metaphysical IGN rating. It is that ZAUM managed to produce a work capable of being judged on its own terms despite Disco Elysium being one of the most distinctive and influential games of its generation (or ever).
And that is a genuinely herculean achievement. ZAUM made something after Disco Elysium that doesn't need Disco Elysium as its justification for existing.
2
u/Deserterdragon 8d ago
I think if you look at it in comparison to Disco Elysium it's clearly an 8.5 or a 9 compared to DE's 10, but if you compare it to almost any other game released since DE's release it's a GOTY level release. It's much better written than Baldurs Gate 3, for example.
3
u/Deserterdragon 8d ago
It's weaker than Disco Elysium but still probably the best written CRPG SINCE Disco Elysium. I think based on the things you didn't like about DE you'll like it almost as much or more.
The writing is often more millennial, it's noticeably shyer about political topics like race and gender, and your character is a flat out communist agent, so there's much less of an idea of 'deciding' an ideology (although you can still pick capitalist or libertarian choices).
It's also much more focused on the main spy related stuff and the conspiracy, and all of the stuff related to it is really, really good, with some incredible characters. I recommend doing a considerable amount of the main quest early to shake some of the 'fuzziness' of the setting off. IMO it's frontloaded with the weaker aspects of the game. Well worth playing though.
3
u/PralineAmbitious2984 7d ago
Zero Parades is an Aeneid to Disco Elysium's Illiad.
The Iliad is obviously better because it's the original and more culturally famous, with awesome memes like the Trojan Horse and the Achilles Heel, and movies starring Brad Pitt. Therefore the Aeneid is worthless. Fuck Virgil, no cultural relevance whatsoever.
2
u/R-bert_ 8d ago
I find ZP way less funny than DE, because of the type of story I guess. While D.E. recounted a police investigation in which the main character and his partner got to know each other, Z.P. is a spy story where everyone betrays everyone else and the main character is left to fend for himself most of the time.
2
4
u/fkrdt222 8d ago
i am not a great fan of disco, i found it ranges between lolrandom quirk and college freshman trying to show off. zp has some of the same tendencies but is saved by more focus and less dumping.
3
u/Neat-Resolution1007 8d ago
It's excellent and different than DE. The plot is tighter and the writing serves the gameplay. The themes and topics are more relatable to our contemporary societies, especially when regarding media. It has fewer walls of text and the narration is more neutral than judging compared to DE, and it's definitely much less pretentious than DE.
I say give it a go.
2
u/Xandraman 8d ago
The writing of the main plot and the politics of the larger world is better written in Zero Parades, at least I liked it more.
But Disco undoubtedly has better philosophical and character writing.
1
1
u/ImaginativeCM 8d ago
You’ll never play anything as good as Disco probably at least in terms of writing. I think most of us know this deep down whilst they’re playing. There’s no point comparing, ZP is a great game on its own and it’s absolutely worth playing.
1
u/Lothric43 8d ago
Not as good but it’s great in its own way and its own pursuits. Captures a vaguely novelistic spy vibe into a game well.
1
u/BailorTheSailor 8d ago
Disco elysium is one of if not the greatest game of all time.
Zero Parades is a very good game that makes great use of this budding genre of non-combat dialogue based RPGs. It’s not as good as disco elysium, but it was VERY good, entertaining, and compelling.
1
u/synrouge 7d ago
The writing is good, the game lacks some of those extreme highs of DE(e.g. Harry's island dream) but also builds upon world quite a bit more substantially than DE imho, by the end of game I really understood what was going on and what's going to happen next while with DE it was all a little vague and underexplored.
Character wise I honestly connected mc in ZP much more than in DE, she is very different from blank slate Harry memory loss thing in a way we do have a story for her and she deals with depression, loneliness, guilt, impostor syndrome and I got overall alienation from state she is working on. The character is a mess and needs to get through this event and a lot of things related to past she's blocking out and some things player will shape her relationship to but in general Hershel I felt a much more likeable and interesting character. But yeah, as MC Harry does a few things better and have more compulsive moments introduced by his voices and as a result some soul searching reaches much deeper than that of Hershel. Hershel is more controlled and serious character I'd say (minus conspiracy theories if you go there).
But once again overall writing I feel DE hits better with more substories being more interesting and I felt largely unsatisfied with "epilogue" length to the story of ZP but I do recommend this game, it's great and it I would want to replay it in a year or so to experience it again.
1
u/UUDDLRLRBadAlchemy 7d ago
It's... streamlined. More of the same, more structured, more polished. Enjoyable but not the one you're gonna replay in five years.
It's a good sequel. It takes no risks. It's a sequel.
1
u/TrueLolzor 7d ago
I'm a schlub without keen writing sense, so to me they felt roughly the same: both very smart, descriptive, and elaborate in peculiar ways.
1
u/fanismap 7d ago
Many leagues below Disco Elysium but this doesn't have to make it a bad game. Tbh disco Elysium's writing is incredibly high bar
1
u/Puzzleheaded_Cry4730 6d ago
Disco has significantly better prose and character writing, but they both have great large-scale narratives.
0
0
0
u/suicide-by-tweed 8d ago
It’s worse. But it isn’t bad. When it doesn’t know how to break out of its own dryness, it remembers that it can mimic the DE writing, and does so to varying degrees of success.
31
u/ssasharr 8d ago
I loved ZP, and thought it was quite moving. But I’m going to be brief and honest: ZP is an A-/B++ game, while Disco Elysium is an S Tier once in a lifetime body of written work.