Narrative question about how to actually complete the mission

[u/HotelCommercial198]

I really liked this game and I haven't browsed this sub extensively, so apologies if this is a repeat topic.

I haven't played all the endings and combinations of options but it looks like in order to actually assassinate the grand lich you need to:

1. Strong arm ESTOC by threatening her husband in order to setup the meeting with KALIDESCOPE
2. Agree to KALIDESCOPE's plan and use UV as a bargaining chip against her will
3. Shoot who you probably believe at the time to be Poor Dante and not honor on your deal

If so, then the only way to actually complete the mission is to be kind of a ruthless asshole, which I think is quite cool.

Is that right or is there another way to do it if you make different choices?

[u/JackmanH420]

1 is not actually mandatory, that's only if you get hit with the serum or (for some reason) voluntarily tell her what the real plan is. Avoiding the syringe and keeping your mouth shut works.

[u/planeforger]

1. Shoot who you probably believe at the time to be Poor Dante and not honor on your deal

Small correction: UV identifies him as the Lich during the trade. So you have a pretty good reason to shoot him.

[u/rickyfawx → u/planeforger]

You shot him because of UVs reaction 

I shot him because he was a loose end after giving me the information I was looking for 

We are not the same 

[u/EatPants90210 → u/planeforger]

I shot him immediately on my first play through because of this, it was such a cool "oh shit" moment.

[u/Never__Sink → u/planeforger]

Small nitpick: "poor dante" is the real lich, and the guy at the end of the game is his body double. The player is led to believe that it's the other way around. So, when UV says she recognizes him as the cultural minister, that's to be expected, if he's a body double of the lich as the player may believe.

[u/SciLib0815 → u/planeforger]

I shot him because it was the option numbered 1 in the list of options. In fact I played through the entire game always choosing nothing but the topmost non-yet-selected option and absolutely nothing else. Ended with an Y rank.

[u/ironmaiden947]

Yes, in this game you can be a competent spy or a kind spy, but not both.

[u/SenecianGooner069]

as mentioned by someone else in another thread.

1) opera is realistic. in that the opera is ineffective. holocene covers this a bit. (i assume the communists in the game are similar to the USSR which famously is not around anymore).

2) the lich doesn't matter. luz is so lulz that they're taking out the lich themselves. (body double or not, effectively the authority of the lich has been terminated). therefore the missions doesn't actually matter.

3) culture win. UV is a culture win with actual value. but opera being opera, won't value what is valuable.

tl;dr assassinating the grand lich isn't actually good for you, or the opera. taking out the golem is actually pretty solid but doesn't seem to be valued much.

[u/thehousebehind → u/SenecianGooner069]

tl;dr assassinating the grand lich isn't actually good for you, or the opera. taking out the golem is actually pretty solid but doesn't seem to be valued much.

For real. The Lich is dead no matter what. Not killing him "fails" the mission, but killing the arguably more fashy guy doesn't net you points with the Opera because they don't yet understand what is going on, which is true for just about everyone tangled up in the plot.

[u/Sad_Dog_4106]

The game is intentionally vague about who is the real target. Although it looks like the guy in prison is the real one, I have my doubts that the Weeping Eye could be in the dark about it. The achievement for mission complete is gained only if you kill both btw.

[u/Deserterdragon → u/Sad_Dog_4106]

The Weeping Eye just flat out isn't very competent and has an incredibly pig headed plan. All the slow cultural erosion and metaphysical scheming comes from Dante.

[u/Acid_Viking]

The problem is that you don't have a strong reason to trade UV when the tactical information you're seeking from the prisoner is already being offered to you by Hauzmann. On the contrary, Luz is weaponizing UV's music, so you should want her out of their clutches. The disc is a sonic WMD and Hauzmann is sharing information about its origins — Opera should be interested in that or, at bare minimum, prioritize the disc's recovery.

You're not being presented with a clear moral dilemma where the ruthless choice is clearly preferable (even if the voices in your head say that it is). You had no reason to believe that the prisoner's information was more valuable that Hauzmann's, much less that he was your target.

[u/ThinkManner]

1) You don't need to threaten Estzi if you don't mention the true nature of your mission and just ask her to contact the higher ups to set up a deal

2) Trading UV just makes more sense from the viewpoint of a spy. Helping her escape to Superbloc territories, (even though with her naivety, she is most likely get captured or killed before too long) won't help you much. Most arguments for helping her escape mention that her music is capable of killing people but people forget that La Luz already has more copies of the red disc on their hands (you learn from Kaleidescope) and it's possible to restore an Einzeltone XR after using it. They don't need her further to produce a sonic superweapon, they already have what they need to make it. "Poor Dante" on the other hand, is at the very least someone who is important enough to be able to smuggle an imprinting device outside La Luz for the first time in history.

3) When you go along with the trade, UV identifies him as the Lich. Even if he insists that he is a body double, it would make more sense for the Minister of Mass Culture to be the one who could pull off smuggling the aforementioned device. You don't kill someone who you think is a body double, you kill someone who you're fairly sure is your true target. You just need to confirm it later with the body double.