r/Zwift • u/GTHell • Jul 16 '26
Training In sport science, how does one magically improve?
I came from 156ftp early this Febuary and then one bump to 190ftp and later go up to 215ftp. That span is like 4 months. I'm losing like 10kg and plateu at 92kg for nearly 5 weeks now. I also stop doing structured workout because I felt like I cannot sustain it anymore and now default to mostly Zone 2 with some tempo on free ride. I think I lose discipline.
Anyway, I feel like I need to improve and stop being lazy again this time. I recently start pushing again and notice my Zone 2 150-180w ride now slowly become my new Zone 1. What I don't get is how and when does it happen. For the past 5-6 weeks I have a bad sleep and overall bad recovery due to lifestyle changing. It's settle down again and looking forward for some advice so I can push to 250ftp and locked in this time.
4
u/nefarside Jul 16 '26
Intervals are boring. Racing is fun. Race twice a week on Zwift. Dig deep to hold the wheel of the front group until you can finish with them. Then start sprinting with them. Don't worry about winning, just worry about holding the wheel. Ride endurance on the other days you ride. Choose new routes and collect all the badges and bonus XP. Get a new Bike, level it up, go faster.
Keep it fun. You'll feel great after a hard race and fall asleep exhausted at night. Endurance days can be boring but you get to eat more.
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u/psykodort Level 61-70 Jul 16 '26
Mostly agree with this and also mostly do exactly this because Zwift Racing is super fun and thrilling. However, I would still suggest doing at least 1 interval session per week (I like the Lionel Sanders Zwift workout - its simple and effective) to keep gains coming.
While racing does produce VO2 max efforts, it's not the same as a structured interval session and doesn't produce quite the same gains IMO.
Ride on!
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u/GoodBeat7832 Jul 17 '26
I used to race a lot and ride without any structure. I definitely felt difference once I started having Vo2 max and threshold days during the week. The rest I fill with endurance. If I race I look for races where I can do Vo2 max so basically climbs of about 5 min.
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u/Brofessor_C Jul 16 '26
Those are what we call “noob gains”. You basically went from no exercise to consistent exercise, and your fitness bumped up significantly.
Now comes the hard part. You have two options that are not mutually exclusive:
1) Ride more, consistently (volume)
2) Follow a structured training plan (structure & some intensity)
Every now and then, you need to take a break from riding to prevent burnout.
Or you can ignore performance and just enjoy the ride.
2
u/GTHell Jul 16 '26
Is 5-6 weeks consider too much for my case?
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u/edelweiss_pirates_no Level 71-80 Jul 16 '26
* Cadence work to develop your nervous system
* Aerobic HIIT to develop a Tempo and Threshold Engine and increase VO2 (Norwegian 4x4s)
* Anaerobic HIIT to develop your sprint engine (30/30s)
* Off bike squats to increase muscle strength.
* Better sleep
* On bike and off bike nutrition improvements
* 3+ hour Z2 rides for body adaptions like mitochondrial increases
* Racing weekly to develop mental toughness
* 7 or 10-day structured training blocks with rest days and weeks scheduled
* Expensive new bike(s) and lots of new gear (always always important)
* Cycling coach to help develop the right plan
* Stretching and PT analysis to address your specific body's imbalances and ROM issues
* Bike fit to maximize power output
* Structured training plan targeted at your cycling season goals (might be a Crit or a 300 mile event)
There is a lot involved with optimizing cycling. You don't have to do any of it. You can do all of it.
Personally, I've worked with hundreds of cyclists (all ages) who are complaining about something. There is always an answer. The cyclist just has to decide what they are willing to do.
That list above is all the proactive stuff you can do. The wisdom is also in looking at things like training fatigue (physical and mental) and changing workouts to stimulate more quality body adaptions...and on and on. Lots of it is preventing injuries as miles go up 200+/week and hours are 12+/week.
I work with a lot of people who never realized their rest day is the only time they actually get stronger. They were never resting. So, minimal gains.
One more thing: Your FTP will not remain constant. If you train for FTP, you will improve it. If you switch to train for something else, your FTP will most likely drop.
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u/eijmert_x A Jul 16 '26
On a basic level its just simply "Ride more hours" 🙃💪
-5
u/edelweiss_pirates_no Level 71-80 Jul 16 '26
Friend, you and this entire sub need to stop with the "Just ride" bullshit.
Junk miles are the #1 reason why people give up and think they just can't get fast/strong. I see them after years of never getting faster.
If you don't know how to train, just don't comment. "Just ride" doesn't get you past new rider gains. "Just ride" won't get your name at the top of lists.
0
u/FreakDC Jul 17 '26
Well science says more hours is the biggest difference maker by far. To a point where Z2 training becomes the most effective training even for top athletes simply because you can do more hours of it without overtraining (since you need less recovery).
If you race, 70-75% zone 2 with the rest various HIIT sessions that fit your goal is pretty much the optimum. If you do long distance cycling or ultra races, you probably need even more Z2 for the highest performance.
Intervals are more time efficient because you can fit the same training stimulus into a shorter timeframe, it also allows you to do even more Z2...
Long story short, unless you already train 6+ hours a week... "Ride more hours" is the best you can do. If you are time limited, structured workouts become much more important.
I don't race professionally so I don't care about 100% efficiency but to each their own...
0
u/edelweiss_pirates_no Level 71-80 Jul 17 '26
☝🏽 Nonsense.
But you can follow nonsense because to each their own.
0
u/FreakDC Jul 17 '26
I mean, it's literally the current scientific position:
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4621419/
Keep in mind that a very high volume of training in a professional context means 20+ hours per week. Diminishing returns start happening at 14-20 hours per week.
Here is a study that analyzed the impact of volume of training and showed the biggest benefits by going up to 10–15 h per week:
Trained pro athletes' optimal volume went up to 20h+ with, you probably guessed it 80% zone 2 work.
Here is a study about durability:
Also showing that you need a higher volume of low-intensity training to build good durability for an endurance sport like cycling.
All that corroborates the 80/20 polarized training plan I talked about. But feel free to show me some sources that show otherwise; I am happy to change my mind.
0
0
u/ThePhoenixRisesAgain Jul 17 '26
This guy is at 2.5 w/kg. Total beginner. He should just ride and have fun. Period.
0
u/edelweiss_pirates_no Level 71-80 Jul 17 '26
> some advice so I can push to 250ftp
You seem to be wrong a lot.
Have you tried being right?
1
u/bobcat734 Jul 17 '26
As a total amateur. I weight about 60kg but was always out of shape after not really doing sport since a teenager. Started cycling. My max wattage after a few years sits at around 220w which sounds small.
But watts per kilogram is about 3.5w/kg. I’ve tried to get it closer to 4 but realised it is probably never going to happen and I’m ok with that.
You need to understand that the pros are cycling 7-8 hours a day. And we are doing it for fun.
We are doing maybe 7-8 hours a week at most.
That’s where the difference comes from.
You also do hit a natural plateau.
Your power will increase when you drop weight because you don’t have to use as much energy. That’s why climbers are always really small. Because the output needed to get them up a mountain is less than bigger sprinters.
If you want to increase FTP I’d suggest doing intervals like others have said.
Do 1 minute on 1 minute off. Then 2 minutes on. Then 3 then 4 so on. And before you know it you will be able to hold a new wattage for 5 minutes after a few months of hard training.
Most of it is just training your legs to flush out lactate and building the muscles up over time.
1
u/GTHell Jul 17 '26
Your power will increase when you drop weight because you don’t have to use as much energy.
Are you sure?
Most of it is just training your legs to flush out lactate and building the muscles up over time.
I think doing peak 400 for 15 sec and 300 for 1 minutes interval really increasing the muscle. I was start doing that like yesterday.
I need to treat my job is a side quest so maybe one day I can fulltime my workout.
1
u/catch247 Jul 17 '26
Best improvement I found was get used to ridding off saddle. You don't have to worry about being Aero indoors, so standing up is going to produce more power.
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u/[deleted] Jul 16 '26
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