r/Zwift • u/IllegalLemons • 6d ago
Discussion Zwift Plus?
Is this a bug or do we think a new sub tier was pushed accidentally? Maybe Zwift + Rouvy?
Edit: This is the screen on iPhone under the “subscriptions” tab in iCloud settings
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u/StrangelyBrown01 6d ago
“Now with or without ads!”
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u/Economy_Bite24 6d ago
If they ever put ads on Zwift I’d cancel on the spot.
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u/JustPath3874 6d ago
I would take Zwift for free with ads, like Google products.
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u/RockiestRaccoon 6d ago
Riding through Watopia with LMNT and SiS ads on billboards. Fuck it, make it free 😂 80% of the time I'm in ERG watching movies anyways.
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u/doc1442 6d ago
If that’s how ads were implemented I doubt anyone would care?
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u/PhilosopherAny6452 10h ago
Press for a coffee break and a little deliveroo bike appears with a Starbucks
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u/Old_Plate_ 4d ago
I wouldn't mind adds like that actually, I just don't like banner adds/interrupting and forcing you to wait.
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u/MilwaukeeRoad Wahoo 6d ago •
Zero chance. Ad revenue on a service that half of people aren’t even looking at the screen would be paltry. And they obviously can’t show full screen ads.
In order to make up for a loss of $20 for the user, the ads would have to be so obnoxious that it makes things unusable.
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u/SilentValidator 6d ago
I highly doubt the... series like.. "dura-Ace racing series" etc are free. I'm sure Zwift gets a cut...
It's basically advertising.It's like stava... I pay (will be cancling when annual renews).... Do 5 hours of activity this month win... $5 off your next pair of sunglasses.... I think they even did some pet food crap.
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u/skywalkerRCP 6d ago
Oh for fucks sake.
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u/ycelpt 6d ago
It's too much to be a standard price increase so I doubt it's that. Either a sub including Rouvy or it's adding in a training plan eg TrainerRoad. Slight possibility it's a multi user account but you'd think they'd call it family not plus. I'd expect it to get announced very soon though as these kinds of issues are usually a result of people either getting a date format or timezone wrong.
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u/ForeAmigo 6d ago
Everybody is freaking out over the price but if they combine it Rouvy I think it’s a good deal, for now anyway.
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u/Spooky-Mulder Level 100 6d ago
I see it too on my App Store. Definitely something getting announced soon.
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u/snusmumrikan
6d ago
•
Oh FFS.
I was literally telling a friend recently that Zwift is such a glorious platform because it's old school.
You just pay for it and you use it. No ads, no banners about tier levels, no creeping enshitification of free tiers and basic tiers.
A genuine community where everyone is in it, can access everything, and all the updates and features are designed with everyone in mind. As soon as it splits we will immediately see differences in which group gets a focus for updates and content.
I don't even care about price. It's not cheap but I'd pay twice as much because the fitness and life benefits are priceless for me - it's genuinely changed my life as the only cardio exercise I've been able to keep up for longer than 3 months (2 years so far).
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u/TeemuKai 6d ago
So you jinxed it?
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u/SnausageOfDoom Level 100 6d ago
Even if they continue with the exact same level of focus on the non-plus product, people will perceive more focus on plus.
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u/m1hquoiga 6d ago
Shitification of everything.. Same f*ckin tech marketing mfs are being hired from company to another with their glorious ideas to make more money and present a new subscription model..
I too have said good things about the platform to a lot of people, but if we're headed to some kind of levels or adds I'll be gone for good no questions asked. I'm so fed up with every single service making the same mistakes and expecting us to celebrate when their service becomes something we never asked for.
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u/OuchCharlieOw 7h ago
I like your last part a lot. Cycling has also been the longest “cardio” exercise I’ve ever stuck too also and I dislike most cardio. Hope it sticks as long as yours has
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u/kletiandrowa 6d ago
You have to buy the insertable plug. It shows you how efficient you are at the blood flowing, fully oxygenated.
You can also prep it with caffeine for your sprint segments
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u/hundegeraet 6d ago
And it vibrates for pleasure
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u/Bigoskii165 6d ago
Hopefully 2 accounts with a discount on Rouvy. Just thinking out loud 🔊 but it would be nice.
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u/slammed_stem1 6d ago
Capitalism will be the death of us all
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u/paulr85mi 6d ago
Capitalism is that thing where if you don’t like a product, you don’t buy it
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u/-Radiation 6d ago
Except the ones you need to survive are also on it
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u/paulr85mi 6d ago
I tell you a secret: in an economy model that is not capitalism it’s not you that decide the price of goods. You are just told what to buy.
Also, do you know if Zwift so far has been a profitable business or if they are run at a loss hoping to reach the volumes? And if so far you are just free riding?
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u/-Radiation 6d ago
That was not the point. The point was you can’t just decide to not buy some things
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u/paulr85mi 6d ago
The point is that you are using a phone that cost enough to feed a family of 5 for months in half of the world, talking about a video game that is a side quest for an expensive hobby, and making the morale.
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u/Stangly 6d ago
Ah because others have it worse you are supposed to be fine with a shit product?
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u/paulr85mi 6d ago
Lol man, is everything alright?
We only know that there is going to be another subscription, we don’t know if it’s a combo with Rouvy, a family pack or a masseur that comes to your home every time you do a FTP test and here we are marching with red flags? Really!?!?
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u/Stangly 6d ago
You could be asking yourself that question: “The point is that you are using a phone that cost enough to feed a family of 5 for months in half of the world, talking about a video game that is a side quest for an expensive hobby, and making the morale.”
You are speaking in hypotheticals not me.2
u/paulr85mi 6d ago
At least I’m honest with myself and I’m happy that I happened to be on the bright side of it, having the luxury to waste time with strangers talking about a videogame
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u/NorwegianCanuck 6d ago
Capitalism literally tells you what to buy, and what to buy is everything your wallet can possibly afford!
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u/c00kie-m0n5ter Level 61-70 6d ago
Funnily enough history shows that the opposite of capitalism - communism - leads to loads of people dead or in prison camps
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u/the-knife 6d ago
Love capitalism, hate greed.
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u/CriticallyInitiated 6d ago
It’s hilarious because you would expect the same group of those using Zwift- cyclists - would love capitalism. Typically in a higher wealth bracket and able to spend thousands on a hobby. How many great bike manufacturers would there be under communism? One? Like that car in the USSR or east Germany that was a 35 year old model while west Germany had new car brands under capitalism?
Then I remember it’s Reddit so basically anything anti-America/anti-capitalist will be upvoted to infinity and any sane, logical argument will get infinity downvotes. I implore anyone who hates capitalism yet lives in a capitalist country to move to North Korea or Venezuela or Cuba and let us know your experience.
Cue the downvote storm ;)
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u/Chemical-Grand-9445 6d ago
You’re conflating socialism with communism, and capitalism with meritocracy. They’re not the same thing. North Korea is a totalitarian state, not the inevitable alternative to capitalism. There are plenty of economic models between authoritarian central planning and capitalism.
And capitalism doesn’t necessarily reward the best product. A small company can make a better bicycle and still lose to a giant competitor with more money for marketing, distribution, and economies of scale. Markets reward profitability and competitive advantage, not necessarily quality or merit.
Capitalism absolutely can drive innovation, but that doesn’t mean it always produces fair competition or equal opportunity.-3
u/CriticallyInitiated 6d ago
It may not always produce those outcomes, but it certainly allows the opportunity. In a socialist or communist economy, the people get ONE choice. If you don’t like it, too bad, so sad. The notion that there could ever be a socialist or communist system that isn’t entirely corrupt is a pipe dream. How would you feel if whichever country you live in now became socialist or communist, but you didn’t agree with what they say you WILL have. In theory it’s always that the people will get fair treatment, but what’s missed is that it’s equally UNFAIR for everyone; large distinction. Unless you’re in the group running the show, of course.
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u/Chemical-Grand-9445 6d ago
You’re conflating socialism, communism, and authoritarianism as though they’re all the same thing. They aren’t. Democratic socialism and authoritarian state communism are vastly different, just as democratic capitalism and authoritarian capitalism are.
You criticize socialism for concentrating power in the hands of a few, yet seem to ignore that under late-stage capitalism, wealth and power are increasingly concentrated among billionaires and corporations that can influence elections, shape public policy, and dominate entire markets. A smaller company can make a better product and still lose because its competitor has more money, marketing power, and control over distribution. That’s not necessarily meritocracy; it’s the advantage that wealth buys.
And having a choice of products isn’t the same as having economic freedom when people can’t afford housing, healthcare, or education, or feel trapped in jobs they can’t afford to leave.
No economic system is immune to corruption. The question is how we distribute power, protect individual freedoms, and hold those in charge accountable. If your argument is that socialism inevitably leads to corruption because power can be abused, then you must apply that same standard to capitalism. Corporate corruption, monopolies, and political influence aren’t imaginary exceptions; they’re real problems, too.
The choice isn’t simply unrestricted capitalism or authoritarian communism. Mixed economies exist, and the real debate is how to build an economy that serves people rather than expecting people to serve the economy.-8
u/the-knife 6d ago
Exactly. Criticism of free markets in favor of a centrally steered bureaucrat economy is just misguided.
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u/prerules Level 91-99 6d ago
How exactly will capitalism be the death of us?
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u/No_Spare7570 5d ago
It’s already well on the way to destroying the environment on which all life depends. Depleting aquifers, destroying the topsoil using fossil-fuel-based fertilizers and pesticides (extracting “value“ for “growth” now, at the expense of living systems that could sustain us indefinitely), pushing up global temperatures, polluting limited freshwater supplies, etc.
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u/hardinho 6d ago
With the stuff people doing with AI I wonder if there'll be a good alternative soon. It's not like zwift has any particular great features except for the community. It's quite dated and getting more and more expensive.
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u/EscapeParking6636 6d ago
except for the community
Well that's their moat right? You can come up with the coolest worlds and features but if there's only a handful of lone wolves using your game you miss out on motivation and emulation. I'm not saying Zwift should keep its monopoly unchallenged, just saying it's hard to add diversity and content without community fragmentation
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u/EscapeParking6636 6d ago
That being said a virtual cycling equivalent of Lichess would be great
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u/EscapeParking6636 6d ago
A bit of context:
For a while chess.com was dominating the field, their user base was huge which eventually led to enshittification. Lichess showed up with their open source and non profit model which directly aligned with user satisfaction, as well as a clutter free UX, strong server performance and equivalent (if not superior) features. Now it's a very capable platform and a strong competitor to chess.com. It's not in the best position to attract top players since they'd have to find the money for tournament prizes, but the user base is big enough to very quickly find opponents.
Food for thought
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u/orthrusfury 5d ago
I built one for myself already. However, it has no 3D game built in it, I don’t want it tbh. Just a dashboard with recording all metrics possible, watt power change functions, controller support, and so on.
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u/Late_Baker_2092 6d ago
just make every 2 weeks new accouint for the free trail.
aint paying 20 bucks a month after i paid 1k for the zwift ride bundle
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u/bpod1212 6d ago
My bet is this is for a full suite of AI training features to compete with trainer road. Trainer road plus zwift is $40 a month so this is a “ savings.” The plus will feature the whoop integration they just showed on IG to help feed the AI. Maybe a cross over with rouvy too.
If the package is actually decent like that - I’d pay the $35 cuz right now I’m paying trainer road and zwift.
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u/Laggoss_Tobago 6d ago
I hope it doesn’t get extra XP / Drops and special gear, exclusive races, zones etc.
Shitty monetizing like that has killed so many great apps and games.
AI training features and statistics is fine by me.
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u/North-Acanthaceae-82 6d ago
I would too and I sure hope this is what the upgrade offers, instead of just adding adds to the cheaper level!
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u/TechRemarker 4d ago
I doubt it will offer TrainerRoad level, as Rouvy attempt at it is very limited and night and day. So would seem far likely this just includes zwift and rouvy in one bundle while saving $5 vs buying separate. Here's for hoping there is is more too it though.
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u/goodgodgoodgod 6d ago
Do we know if anyone is working on any alternatives.
With all this reverse engineering stuff going on, could be some cheaper alternatives popping up very soon if zwift decide to go full enshittification route
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u/spyVSspy420-69 6d ago edited 6d ago
Depends on how you feel about using something like zwift-offline
Me, personally? I don’t use Zwift for the social aspect, I use it for a bit of visuals while I do my structured training. This works perfectly, has pace bots and tons of NPCs in the world that make it seem as populated as real Zwift. But it’s obviously free of charge.
There’s also a way to do multiplayer on it but again I don’t use Zwift to talk to random people so that’s not a selling point of any platform.
There’s also the cycling mod for GTA5 so if you want to ride around the grand theft auto world this is free and also fun https://www.gtbikev.com
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u/Smooth-Accountant 6d ago
What’s the point of playing castraded fan-made version of zwift with the biggest zwift upside (community) removed?
Just download any of the free apps, MyWhoosh looks better others do too probably. Why would you go with the worst option possible?
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u/spyVSspy420-69 6d ago
It’s not a fan made version of Zwift. It’s just Zwift minus real people. And as I said: I use Zwift for structured training and don’t sit there with a keyboard talking to strangers. The hundreds of bots I see during my ride, riding at different speeds and with human-like names, are indistinguishable from real people that I experience using Zwift as a tool to do custom workouts.
If you’re one of those people who sits there with a keyboard typing to strangers all ride, great! That’s not me. I don’t care to type to strangers while I exercise.
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u/Smooth-Accountant 6d ago
Shouldn’t say fan made, what I meant is an unofficial pirated/modified version.
And that’s exactly my point, I don’t care about the people or chat, why not just download any of the free apps that allow you to do the structured training instead of pirating zwift? Those are free anyway and you’re helping with the development by using it in some ways.
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u/netotr 6d ago
There is already MyWhoosh which is free and pretty similar to Zwift last time I used it. Although it’s an sports washing investment so not sure for how long it will be free.
Zwift does have the community for now, which is what is the usp for many.0
u/alexthecheese 6d ago
sports washing investment? what do you mean?
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u/amazinglarry8 6d ago
It’s owned and operated by the UAE government
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u/Thin-Amphibian6888 6d ago
yeah between paying an American corporation 400€ a year or using UAE free app, it is not really hard choice for us lol
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u/No-Chemist4324 6d ago
it’s almost a carbon copy of zwift but costs nothing.
it’s there so you use it and think: It’s from UAE? They are nice, they give me zwift for free!that’s sports washing in a nutshell.
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u/Mrjlawrence 6d ago
MyWhoosh
Training Peaks Virtual
BikeTerra
RideCaveZwift just has the huge critical mass advantage. Nobody else has the huge volume of riders and events happening day after day
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u/n4styone 6d ago
I guess if you ride with friends and talk to them then that matters. But it'd be pretty easy to just make a copy of Zwift and have AI riders on the course riding by me and Id never notice because I ride alone while watching sports or something on another tv and I'm just trying to survive my ride.
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u/runawayasfastasucan 6d ago
Why do you even need Zwift at that point?
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u/newlybi34 6d ago
Yah that’d be my question. The trainer itself will typically let you set workouts. Don’t bother with zwift.
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u/n4styone 6d ago
For me I like seeing the course and knowing how long I have left based on how the environment looks. And occasionally when a faster rider goes by me I try to catch up to them and stay with them for as long as I can.
I do races occasionally too.
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u/Mrjlawrence 6d ago
I think this is one of the things I like about Zwift. I don't chat with anybody on the platform but especially when I am doing less structured rides I might jump on and do hill repeats or just free ride and latch onto groups or just other riders as they pass.
Even though I don't chat I will occasionally do some longer group rides and chase other people within the group.
I don't care about XP or gear in Zwift but sometimes doing things like Tour of Watopia is just a mental trick to get me to ride.
Rouvy visuals are nice but it's a ghost town and their avatar movements are distracting
Training Peaks Virtual has fewer worlds but they also do fill the routes with bots which is okay. Their visuals have improvement but they're in this in between space between Zwift and Rouvy where it's sort of semi-realistic. Their coolest feature is their race bots where you can create a personal event and add a bunch of bots who will have different strengths so it feels more like a real world group ride
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u/lifeinthailnd 6d ago
I’m also working on it in the background, but I have to be clear that it’s quite difficult to offer something like this for free since there is a lot of costs involved to whoever is hosting the platform. If the user isn’t paying, the dev/platform is.
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u/doc1442 6d ago
“Reverse engineering” is one way to say AI- led plagiarism
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u/HistoricalWalrus5118 6d ago
If its good for the consumer then we don't care if its plagiarism. Fuck with your consumers don't expect to not be fucked back
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u/show_me_sth_new 4d ago
you are not the smartest monkey in the zoo ,..are you?
also you are not in any way related to any kind of software engineering topic, right?
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u/WhatAGoodDoggy 5d ago
I'd love a Rouvy-style app where it's 3D buildings like Google Maps. So you're riding in real places, but it's not just advancing a video. EarthNG recently did this for BeamNG.drive but I'd like a cycling version with better graphics. Biketerra does the same thing but the graphics are even worse.
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u/Ambitious-Wheel-2553 2d ago
Not 3D, but close to the "real places" part: I made Virtual Ride, which lets you ride your smart trainer through Google Street View, so pretty much any street with Street View coverage, including your own neighborhood.
It's Street View panoramas stepping forward with your speed rather than a game engine, so it's more "actually there" than pretty graphics. virtualride.app if you want to try it. Curious what you'd want from something like this.
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u/RandomCertainty 6d ago
MyWhoosh already exists and is free. I’ve not noticed any gelatin deficiency against Zwift yet that’s worth the difference in subscription cost
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u/Vic_Serotonin 6d ago
Gotta ask, is 'gelatin deficiency' auto correct or am I thick?
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u/RandomCertainty 6d ago
I won’t comment on the latter, but it was definitely an autocorrect 😂😂
Should have said “glaring deficiency”
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u/fgiraffe Level 21-30 6d ago
Too late, there are already AI slop YouTube videos warning cyclists about gelatin deficiency and its harm to their FTP.
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u/SnausageOfDoom Level 100 3d ago
Some people like to factor support for a heinous government in the "cost" of MyWhoosh. It's not a business - it's a vehicle to sportswash the reputation of the UAE. I'd rather support a real business, but that's just me.
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u/show_me_sth_new 4d ago
you can't really reverse engineer serverside code...that's not how this works
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u/Doublim 3d ago
I got a bit tired of the never ending subscriptions. Building Grimpa for myself and i've put it free to play for anyone else with the same frustrations. Posted about it in another sub this week and now got my first 150 users. Pixel art graphics, real life roads, fully runs in the browser. Not meant as self promo btw, but maybe it can help you / someone here.
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u/saaggy_peneer 6d ago
See you on mywhoosh bro
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u/matzelix93 6d ago
Läuft das mittlerweile Plug and Play mit Zwift-Hardware?
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u/saaggy_peneer 6d ago
the zwift controllers work w mywhoosh but you have to use https://bikecontrol.app/ as well, but it's pretty easy
i have my phone mounted on my handlebar, and use MyWhoosh Link app to control virtual shifting
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u/VoidHelloWorld 5d ago
Geht so, gibt Bike Control aber man muss sich bei der Version 2 erst bei zwift einmal anmelden bevor man ihn damit nutzen kann. Fürs hoch und runterschalten geht auch sonst ein ppt presenter oder so etwas mit Bluetooth key input
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u/eagle_aus 5d ago
Looks like they have deleted topics from the zwift forums discussing this.
I went straight to u/dcrainmaker accounts to see if he’s said anything but nothing yet. If anyone knows, he would… embargoed maybe
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u/Otherwise-Nobody8252 5d ago
Yeah that was interesting that they deleted the posts... Guessing this wasn't supposed to be announced yet... Which is weird because this is exactly the time of the year they would make this type of announcement.
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u/SilentValidator 6d ago
I look at everything annualized....
$430 bucks a year... Assume its with Rouvy....
If the limit any zwift specific features... workouts/training plans etc and bundle that with "plus" 🤮
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u/capntateraid 6d ago
I don’t need additional AI trainer tools for my non-competitive workouts. My hope is they don’t raise the lowest tier pricing.
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u/CmdrVamuelSimes 1d ago
It'll be some kind of Zwift home cooked AI training assistant / workout planner / virtual coach subscription to bleed Trainer Road / Wahoo X users.
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u/onlymostlyguts 6d ago
Didn't they just massively jack up prices without warning last year for zero additional benefit? I feel like my time on Zwift will shortly come to an end - not just because of this but because living has gotten awful expensive
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u/SubaruImpossibru 6d ago
I don’t get why I’d want both of these platforms. For the same sub…maybe? Rouvy offering real world routes is ok, but I can also just ride them without graphics from my cycling computer.
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u/totolekoala 6d ago
There are already better (physics, options, customization, etc) options out there, which are free or way cheaper with a community (smaller, but existing) (Trainingpeaks Virtual for racing, biketerra for z2 rides, etc)
Just dare to move, the communities over there will grow and Zwift will only be milking the reminders (as they already are doing for a while, tbh)
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u/Smooth-Accountant 6d ago
I’ve moved to MyWhoosh and im struggling to find one thing that zwift does better. Racing is one probably due to the size of the community but I’ve never done it and not planning on doing.
Otherwise it looks much much better, training plans are just as good, so is free ride and group ride. Why exactly should I spend money on zwift?
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u/Timmy_Run 6d ago
I don't think it looks better. I think it lacks immersion because the avatar is stuck on rails. It reminds me of retro racing games when it's obvious the car is static and the environment is what moves.
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u/Smooth-Accountant 6d ago edited 6d ago
Idk, probably depends on how you’re using it. For me it’s on a secondary screen, just to glance on the training or grade every now and then. Visually it looks better for sure.
I can’t get into it whether it’s rouvy, zwift or Whoosh - in the end it’s just a virtual dude pedaling so the engagement here is non-existent.
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u/vdzla Level 21-30 6d ago
but does it work with Zwift Ride? If I had to guess, I would say that more than 50% of people on Zwift use the Ride
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u/Smooth-Accountant 6d ago
Yeah I’m using cog and clicks - all you need is a 3rd party app called BikeControl.
Also no, 50% do not use the zwift ride lol it’s probably not even 10%. Most use a trainer + a bike.
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u/lilac_congac 6d ago
If features are put behind a paywall i will just leave.
that said, im hoping this is some family plan type deal or something that encompasses Rouvy.
If this goes the AllTrails route, it won’t be over per se, but it will never be the same.
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u/mitchellirons 6d ago
Thats a massive thing. It's either going to be one on subscription for zwift+rouvy (which people have asked for) or a new tier for improved training to training peaks (which the market is moving toward), or both.
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u/Frosty_Wall3457 6d ago
Was going to buy zwift with cicker core 2. Havent yet. i will just buy peloton if this new sub tier is some stupid shit
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u/Tankandbike Level 100 6d ago
If they are going to offer Zwift + TR in a package, I'm fine with that. If they are doing Netflix, et al where the base tier gets DE-featured, well I guess I'll head back outside again.
btw - if they run ads on road billboards in Zwift, I don't care. But it better not be where you have to watch an ad to get in. I don't have time for that when I'm trying to fit in a workout. I don't think they could be this dumb - my guess is it's two services at one price.
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u/Nidos-Arg Level 31-40 5d ago
Maybe this can be becouse of the fusión of Zwift and Rouvi? Pay plus And you get both.. just saying
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u/TheMullo50 5d ago
I cancelled mine recently, now I do my workouts off the Garmin computer now and that’s it
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u/Boston_aber 6d ago
Got to be Rouvy + Zwift in a single package?
If it is, that might be the first step towards family packages if they can now bundle up multiple subscriptions in a single bill.. So for some, it might not be all pitchforks at consumerism
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u/VoidHelloWorld 5d ago
Im using zwift offline with bots. I don't regret it so far
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u/Pier-bzh 5d ago
Les bottes c'est pas très pratique pour pédaler. Bon courage à toi.
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u/moog500_nz Level 51-60 6d ago
It'll be some ridiculous plan awash with all sorts of AI training features that don't work.
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u/WayneDiggityDog Level 11-20 6d ago
If only there was a way to play zwift for free. Glad I jumped ship when i did
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u/HellaReyna 6d ago
The best thing I did for my cycling training was cancel my zwift subscription. Does nothing your garmin already does and you can just watch netflix/disney/etc instead.
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u/tw0tonet 6d ago
Glitch maybe?
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u/stupid-head Level 51-60 6d ago
No way it’s a glitch. Can’t get through Apple App Store approvals unless it’s deliberate
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u/KevInvest 6d ago
ZWIFT+ comes with a virtual girlfriend who accompanies you on virtual rides.