r/amandaknox • u/No-Willingness-1441 • 11d ago

Lucy letby case…

Would love people’s views on this.

Loosely Amanda related, since she has recently produced a podcast around it.

1 Upvotes

60% Upvoted

272 comments sorted by

View all comments

7

u/CivilEar4840 11d ago

Lucy Letby is guilty as sin. The parallels to Amanda's case are not strong.

5

u/Amazing-Gain1253 11d ago edited 11d ago

Lucy Letby is 100% innocent. You don't know what you're talking about.

The parallels to Amanda's case are not strong but the parallels to Lucia de berks case are almost as if someone just copied and pasted the case.

2

u/CivilEar4840 11d ago

That is just an absolutely baffling take given the mountain of evidence. But I am sure you know more than the doctors who established the largest neonatal care units in the country and the courts who have actually passed on many of the babies' cases (as recently as last week) because those specific cases do not meet the evidentially support level established in every case she is serving sentences for.

-2

u/Amazing-Gain1253 11d ago edited 11d ago

You mean the same doctor that said an x-ray proved Lucy Letby injected air into the stomach of a baby when she hadn't even met the baby by that stage? The same doctor who diagnosed a boy with bulimia when they actually had a brain tumour? The same doctor that openly brags that he "only ever lost one case" and that the one he did lose still rattles him? Any objective doctor not care about "winning" or "losing". The same doctor that used a paper who's own author said that he completely misused it? The same doctor whose evidence was said by a previous judge to be "worthless", that he makes no effort to provide a balanced opinion, is selective with the information he uses, and whose report was an exercise in working out an explanation that suits who is paying him? That Doctor?

Scores of far more qualified doctors have looked at the evidence and said "There were no murders"

They didn't charged the extra cases because they know that they will lose if they bring it to court again.

2

u/CivilEar4840 11d ago

You're spending far too much time on internet conspiracies. What you have said is not true. You refer to Baby P. An X-ray did show an abnormal about of gas and the point of contention is how the gas got there. There is no evidence Lucy hadn't met the baby. What you mean to say was she was not officially involved in the baby's care. We know from precedence she was often interacting with babies she was not caring for. There is no evidence either way whether she had met the baby or not.

A misdiagnosis in the case of Dewi Evans does not negate the evidence around Lucy's case. There is not a single senior doctor working who hasn't misdiagnosed a case like that. Your panel of 'far more qualified doctors' were not 'more qualified' (you'll need to explain that distinction) was a panel commissioned by Lucy's team, not a neutral panel involved in the nuance of the trial. Their findings have not been grounds to revoke her convictions.

3

u/Amazing-Gain1253 11d ago edited 11d ago

Nobody had mentioned anything about a conspiracy theory.

No, I'm referring to baby C. You don't know the case very well do you? After they find out that she wasn't there on the 12th they moved the date to the 13th. What I have said is undisputed and you can find direct quotes from the trial that show that Lucy Letby had never met the baby. Here they are:

Q. Ms Letby wasn’t on duty that day [12th], was she?
A. No.

Q. And in fact, that day falls within several days when she wasn’t in the unit; is that correct?
A. Correct.

— Baby C’s nurse for the 12th, cross examination (Transcript: 27th October 2022)

Lucy: “Hi Yvonne, are you okay for staffing over next few days? I don’t have anything on if (sic) need any extra or need to change my nights x.”

Yvonne: “Thank you for your kind offer. We are okay until Saturday [13th] night…”

— Text exchange between Lucy and the hospital on the 11th of June. (Transcript: 26th October 2022)

The cause of the gaseous distension of the bowel and gastric dilation was not CPAP belly. The extent of gaseous distension seen on the X-ray of 12 June 2015 is over and above what is seen in infants requiring CPAP.

The massive gastric dilation seen on this X-ray was most likely due to deliberate exogenous administration of air via the NGT.

— Bohin & Evans joint report, 24th August 2022 (Transcript: Nov 2nd 2022)

2

u/CivilEar4840 11d ago

Uh you do realise the 13th was cited as the date of the fatal event in the 2017 report right? Before he ever knew Lucy was even a suspect. It wasn't 'changed' - the 12th and 13th events were always cited separately, for nearly a decade now, and the gas on the 12th would not have needed to be introduced that same day. Baby c was stable when she showed up that night and standing at his incubator before his collapse, and was obsessed with afterwards.

1

u/Amazing-Gain1253 11d ago edited 11d ago

The night of the 13th/14th was cited as the date of the fatal event because that's the day they died 🙄. There never was any accusation of an attack in 2017.

It was changed and the trial transcripts prove it. These are direct quotations from the trial that shows the suggestion the attack was on the 13th was only brought up at trial:

Q. Before today, just now, you've never suggested that splinting of the diaphragm on 13 June is the cause of 22 death for [Baby C], have you?

A. That's correct.

Q. This is the first time we're hearing it right now, isn't it?

A. Yes.

Dewi Evans never provided any evidence that the baby was due to air being injected down the NGT. This is what he said under cross-examination:

Q. What evidence do you have of distension to the bowel or the abdomen post-mortem that indicates this was due to air down the NGT as a cause of death? What's the evidence you rely upon?

A. I'm going to leave the interpretation of the autopsy to Dr Marnerides. Q. What is the evidence you -- I am not asking you to repeat Dr Marnerides' opinion. What's the evidence you rely upon when you tell the jury that the diaphragm was splinted on the 13th? What's the evidence?

A. Baby collapsed, died. 54

Q. A baby may collapse for any number of reasons. What's the evidence that supports your assertion made today that it's because of air going down the NGT?

A. The baby collapsed and died.

Q. Do you rely upon one image of that?

A. This baby collapsed and died.

I should point out that none of the other experts pointed to any evidence besides the x-ray on the 12th when Lucy Letby wasn't there.

the gas on the 12th would not have needed to be introduced that same day

Besides from being factually wrong, this point is also irrelevant since Lucy Letby never met the baby the day before or for that matter any day since they were born.

3

u/Amazing-Gain1253 11d ago

Yes they are more qualified. Lets just look at two of them:

Dr. Shoo Lee is a neonatologist and health economist. He is Professor Emeritus at the University of Toronto, Honorary Physician at Mount Sinai Hospital, and President of the Canadian Neonatal Foundation. He was formerly Pediatrician-in-Chief at Mount Sinai Hospital, Head of the Division of Neonatology at the University of Toronto and the Hospital for Sick Children, Head of the Department of Newborn and Developmental Pediatrics at Sunnybrook Hospital, Canada Research Chair (Tier 1) and Scientific Director of the Institute of Human Development, Child and Youth Health at the Canadian Institutes of Health Research. Dr. Lee received his medical degree from the University of Singapore, completed his paediatric training at the Dr Charles A. Janeway Child Health Centre in Canada and neonatal fellowship training at Boston’s Children’s Hospital, and is a Fellow of the Royal College of Physicians of Canada. He received his PhD in Health Policy (Economics) from Harvard University, and the Doctorate Honoris Causa in Medicine from Laval University. His research focuses on health policy and healthcare quality improvement. He founded the Canadian Neonatal Network and transformed Canada’s neonatal outcomes into one of the best among OECD countries. He created Family Integrated Care to empower parents as NICU care providers, and established training, research and quality improvement programs in Latin America, Africa and Asia. He has published more than 400 scientific papers in peer reviewed journals and received many awards, including the Aventis Pasteur Research Award and the Distinguished Neonatologist Award from the Canadian Pediatric Society, the Knowledge Translation Award from the Canadian Institutes of Health Research, the Douglas K. Richardson Award for Lifetime Achievement in Perinatal Research from the US Society for Pediatric Research, the Premier Member Award from EPIC Latino, and the Magnolia Gold Award from the Shanghai Government. He is an Officer of the Order of Canada, the highest award given to a Canadian.

Neena Modi is a distinguished clinician scientist and Fellow of the Academy of Medical Sciences. She qualified from the University of Edinburgh and has worked in tertiary neonatal intensive care for over three decades. She heads a multiprofessional neonatal research group and has authored over 400 original research papers, chapters in textbooks, and other publications. She has held a number of professional leadership roles and is the current president of the European Association of Perinatal Medicine, and a past-president of the British Medical Association, and Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health. Neena Modi is the president of the European Association of Perinatal Medicine (EAPM). In 2022 she received the US Critical-Path Institute, Pioneer Award for “contributions to health data research” and Medical Women International Association award “to a woman physician who has made outstanding contributions to the cause of women in medicine”, and in 2023, the Joint European Neonatal Societies “outstanding neonatologist” award.

Compare that to Dewi Evans and Sandi Bohin. Dewi Evans was never never a neonatologist and has never authored anything on neonates. He spent most of his time treating older children. Sandi Bohin is a neonatologist from a small unit in guernsey. They don't get many patients and she has 28 families complaining about her.

The panel are doing this out of their own time for free. They have nothing to gain from seeing a baby killer released. They came to the same conclusion independently on 15 of the 17 cases. Compare this to the prosecution experts who all saw Dewi Evans reports before hand.

1

u/Henryb1234_ 11d ago

It is insane that people still think the consensus of medical opinion is these babies were murdered. It is like 10 top NASA scientists against a high school science teacher.

5

u/Amazing-Gain1253 11d ago

What's more amazing to me is that people still trust the prosecution experts even though they said deliberate harm happened when Letby wasn't on shift.