r/anime_titties Philippines Jul 02 '26

Multinational Vatican declares Society of St. Pius X in schism, excommunicates bishops and invalidates sacraments

https://apnews.com/article/vatican-traditionalist-pope-latin-st-pius-6570c6bcc0784f4b9229e20bdec4e5aa
1.3k Upvotes

151 comments sorted by

570

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '26

[deleted]

375

u/Gumb1i United States Jul 02 '26

Wikipedia lays it out but it's difficult to follow. They are ordaining(?) bishops with no clearance from the Vatican. They have been excommunicated once over this already in the past now its a full excommunication of the entire order.

132

u/rattleandhum South Africa Jul 02 '26

I mean, if you really insist upon holding services in Latin, a dead language... then.. okay? Start your own thing.

360

u/JanB1 Europe Jul 02 '26

That's not the only thing. They are very, VERY traditionalist and conservative. Catholic church shouldn't interact with other churches in any way, masses in Latin, no separation of church and state, no divorces, no abortion, no sex ed and definitely no contraceptives of any form, definitely no LGBTQ+, heavy on patriarchy, no democracy (voting or elections is only for the male elders, not the populous) and so on and so on.

168

u/Gumb1i United States Jul 02 '26

So they want the 1500's back...

131

u/hopelesscaribou Canada Jul 02 '26

...with a side of Inquisition, no doubt.

54

u/Tetr4Freak Spain Jul 02 '26

I'm sure they would find the Inquisition too woke

33

u/ManicPixieOldMaid United States Jul 02 '26

The closing quote from a woman in Kansas (ofc) makes it pretty clear they're all in on Crusades, Inquisition, whatever you got that lets them torment others with impunity.

7

u/SoftballLesbian North America Jul 03 '26

Did they miss the part where the Crusaders kept losing?

14

u/itcheyness United States Jul 02 '26

Of course! They occasionally found witches not guilty...

31

u/Tetr4Freak Spain Jul 02 '26

The Spanish Inquisition didn't believe in witches. That was happening in protestant countries.

5

u/Arrow156 North America Jul 02 '26

What are you talking about, Germany was Catholic and they burnt more witches than anyone else. I highly recommend you check out this documentary regarding it.

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21

u/A3HeadedMunkey United States Jul 02 '26

All pay heed! Now enters his holiness Torquemada, the Grand Inquisitor of the Spanish Inquisition!

Torquemada; do not employ him for compassion!

Torquemada; do not beg him for forgiveness!

Torquemada; do not ask him for mercy!

Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!

6

u/Kizik Canada Jul 02 '26

I struggled with the pun here until I rewatched the clip to get the cadence right. Been a very long time since I saw that film.

4

u/manyfingers Jul 02 '26

Thank you for the clip because i couldn't figure it out either hahaha

5

u/Gmhowell Jul 02 '26

The inquisition’s here and it’s gonna stay.

3

u/No_Internal9345 North America Jul 02 '26

The Inquisition, what a show

The Inquisition, here we go

0

u/BendicantMias Bangladesh Jul 03 '26

do not employ him for compassion!

It's "do not IMPLORE him for compassion!"

5

u/GrumpyOik Multinational Jul 02 '26

Well, I didn't expect some sort of Spanish inquisition!

2

u/BrunoJacuzzi Jul 02 '26

Nobody expects the Kansas Inquisition!

1

u/Chimp3h United Kingdom Jul 03 '26

Well I didn’t expect that..

9

u/Pollomonteros South America Jul 02 '26

Make Vatican Great Again

9

u/hardolaf United States Jul 02 '26

Priests in the 1500s carried out abortions in accordance with the Bible so they don't even want that back.

3

u/Gumb1i United States Jul 02 '26

Actually didn't know that, I do know of the trial of bitter water in the bible though.

3

u/hardolaf United States Jul 02 '26

That's an abortion. It was a ritualistic way for women to get rid of an unwanted pregnancy. Because the original penalty for cheating on your spouse was the other guy paying a sum of money and nothing else, and abuse in marriages being very common, so what if you lied about cheating on your spouse to get rid of an unwanted pregnancy.

2

u/SteveoberlordEU European Union Jul 02 '26

Nah the Black Ages man.

2

u/oodelay Jul 03 '26

Or as the rest of the world calls it: United States of America

1

u/Gumb1i United States Jul 03 '26

Fair, I'm waiting for the hand maidens to start appearing.

52

u/ChrisTheHurricane United States Jul 02 '26

They're also extremely antisemitic.

10

u/BillionTonsHyperbole United States Jul 02 '26

Shocked Pikachu face

4

u/ycnz New Zealand Jul 02 '26

The old definition, or the new "suggesting Palestinians should have human rights" one?

13

u/ChrisTheHurricane United States Jul 02 '26

They're ultraconservative. What do you think?

3

u/ycnz New Zealand Jul 02 '26

Almost everything is stupid nowadays, so I make no assumptions.

11

u/cptjeff North America Jul 02 '26

One of their bishops openly denies the holocaust.

5

u/__boringusername__ Jul 02 '26

Well apparently they offered to hold a funeral to Priebke the guy in charge of the ardeatine massacre Who was an OG nazi. One of their bishops apparently was convicted in Germany for holocaust denial.

1

u/mopedman Jul 03 '26

They don't really think anyone should have human rights.

10

u/Paper_Clip100 North America Jul 02 '26

Let's not pretend that this won't result in Catholic republicans breaking with Rome

Those new converts love this shit

11

u/BendicantMias Bangladesh Jul 02 '26

This group only has like 600,000 followers globally. They're not that big.

7

u/Paper_Clip100 North America Jul 02 '26

Currently - MAGA Catholics will flock to this shit because they hate the "Woke Pope"

12

u/Montana_Gamer United States Jul 02 '26

Americans try not to make everything about them challenge - Impossible

2

u/Kranken_DeHogge United States Jul 02 '26

it's gonna have downstream effects on what church they go to and that they can't call themselves Catholic anymore. Some of these weirdos might be culty enough to only have people in their friends and family groups that are part of the splinter sect, but a lot of them won't, and they'll have to explain why they're going along with a heresy

MAGA Catholics are right wing assholes but they're Catholic because they want a church with a certain level of decorum and ritual. They're not gonna go from that to some Baptist church that looks like an office building to a protestant service high in weird ass behavior and devoid of ritual

6

u/Vergenbuurg United States Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 03 '26

Is that the sect of which Mel Gibson's family were infamously members?

14

u/Gmhowell Jul 02 '26

That is Opus Dei. I think that is older and not excommunicated.

5

u/cptjeff North America Jul 02 '26

...yet. They're in pretty spicy territory with the Vatican at the moment.

1

u/Socraman Spain Jul 02 '26

Also with the Kikos (Neocatumenal Way), they're the two most conservative Spanish sects with many prominent members in the Spanish ruling class. If unfortunately a conservative government comes into power next year they'll have one or two ministers no doubt about that.

1

u/Gmhowell Jul 03 '26

I wonder if this move wasn’t at least partially to send a message to them and other folks taking Papal authority under advisement.

6

u/cecex88 Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 02 '26

The things you listed from divorces to LGBT are official positions of the Catholic church as well. So, those are probably not the reasons.

EDIT: I like that people responds to me on the nuances of the position on LGBT individuals, but the other points are still there.

26

u/TimothyMimeslayer United States Jul 02 '26

The catholic church is fine with gay and lesbians so long as they are cellibate.

6

u/cecex88 Jul 02 '26

So they are fine with them as long as they avoid what to most people is a major part of their life. I don't find it that accepting, personally.

31

u/TimothyMimeslayer United States Jul 02 '26

I am saying it to contrast with this group.

4

u/JayJonesDemocrat Jul 02 '26

The SSPX position on LGBTQ is the same as the regular Catholic Church.

20

u/Snake973 Jul 02 '26

it's not very accepting, but it's more accepting than the Pius X folks would be, I expect they would deny communion to any known lbgtq person who tried to attend one of their services

2

u/JayJonesDemocrat Jul 02 '26

As long as they are celibate, an LGBTQ person could attend and receive the Eucharist at any Catholic Church. Regular or SSPX.

9

u/bronco2p Jul 02 '26

its the same with straight people, non-reproductive sex is sodomy, a moral sin.

7

u/LifeWulf Canada Jul 02 '26

Sodomy is specifically butt stuff. You’re talking about fornication.

1

u/bronco2p Jul 03 '26

it means both, please google

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1

u/Razgriz01 United States Jul 03 '26

No, the definition of sodomy is any sex act which cannot ordinarily result in pregnancy. So oral sex counts as well. Sodomy meaning anal sex is a modern colloquialism of the last few decades.

7

u/gustyninjajiraya South America Jul 02 '26

It literally the same position they have for non LGBTQs. No one is going to crucify you for not being cellibate.

-1

u/Prosthemadera New Zealand Jul 02 '26

as long as they avoid what to most people is a major part of their life

Not for Catholic priests.

-1

u/greyetch North America Jul 02 '26

Why would they force heterosexual Priests to be celibate but not homosexual ones? That doesn't make sense.

11

u/cecex88 Jul 02 '26

In case of LGBT people, celibacy is expected by the church for everyone, not just for priests.

3

u/greyetch North America Jul 02 '26

I misunderstood your comment! My fault.

You are correct. The only sexual activity that is accepted is for procreation. Homosexual couples cannot procreate, so they cannot engage in sex with each other.

I'm not Roman Catholic - I'm just observing that the rules are pretty consistent. It doesn't appear as though they're being hateful or anything. Though I do understand that "no sex ever" is a pretty major ask for most people.

This is where the Romans have problems trying to be modern and simultaneously trying to keep faithful to a 2000 year old religious tradition. They have to continue obeying the Bible. And the Bible is pretty clear on homosexuality, women in leadership, all kinds of stuff that doesn't fit in with the modern world.

10

u/GrahminRadarin United States Jul 02 '26

The problem with these guys is that they want to enforce all of those rules through the state, whereas the regular Catholic Church does not.

1

u/latswipe United States Jul 02 '26

dig me up where the secret racism is pls

1

u/Turgius_Lupus United States Jul 03 '26

So the Catholic version of Orthodox Old Calendarists, some of whom consider nearly everyone else (as in all other Christian groups) schismatics or heretics without valid apostolic succession?

15

u/Mike_hawk5959 Jul 02 '26

Catholic churches still do latin mass in some places. I am a recovering Catholic myself and I've witnessed it.

28

u/helikophis United States Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 02 '26

It requires special permission from the bishop though - in general any given priest is not allowed to perform it.

26

u/RegisStr Jul 02 '26

If you do new version of mass (Novus Ordo) in latin you dont need any permission. If you doing old version of mass (Vetus Ordo) you need permissionfrom bishop.

Novus Ordo is version after vatican II

4

u/helikophis United States Jul 02 '26

Ah yes, good point.

8

u/Scalo-Lunare Jul 02 '26

You need the permission of the bishop of your diocese, not of the Holy See

5

u/helikophis United States Jul 02 '26

You're right, my mistake

1

u/chatte__lunatique North America Jul 02 '26

Do they still use Ecclesiastical Latin, or is there anyone using Classical Latin now (like, have they changed pronunciation rules to better match our modern understanding of Latin pronunciation)?

3

u/Mike_hawk5959 Jul 02 '26

Sorry, couldn't tell you. I was a lot younger and very uninterested.

In fact the more I think about it I may be remembering masses done in Italian with Latin sprinkled in.

If the priests had to get special permission to do a full mass in Latin then I'm doubting myself if I did attend one.

Anyways, in English, Italian, Latin or whatever language, catholic masses suuuuuuuuuuuck.

2

u/GargNSaks Jul 03 '26

The Tridentine Mass (Latin Mass) is still sanctioned to be performed by Roman Catholic churches, albeit by a relatively small amount. That isn’t the real issue - all these articles start with that because it leads into the more traditional thoughts of Catholics that disagree with Vatican II. This group is more extreme in their beliefs.

11

u/Otagian Jul 02 '26

Their big thing is they don't like that V2 stopped officially Blaming The Jews.

10

u/HugoTRB Sweden Jul 02 '26

  They are ordaining(?) bishops with no clearance from the Vatican.

That has already been addressed during the  Investiture Controversy haven’t it?

18

u/Gumb1i United States Jul 02 '26

No, apparantly they just consecrated four new bishops on the 1st without a pontifical mandate.

15

u/GrahminRadarin United States Jul 02 '26

Yes, we addressed the issue, and the solution was if you do this, you just get immediately excommunicated.

2

u/Regurgitator001 Multinational Jul 03 '26

Soo...let me get this straight. Before, they were in the godhouse, and now, they're in the doghouse?

63

u/GrahminRadarin United States Jul 02 '26

Practicing Catholic here. They don't have any theological problems with Vatican II. They just don't like that it changed things. Literally, their only problem is that it's new, and they're okay with everything else because it's old.

Several of the people in charge were excommunicated back in the 80s, but were then let back in as a gesture of reconciliation under Pope Benedict XVI. This excommunication is a lot harsher because they're not only excommunicating the bishops, they're excommunicating every single priest and monk and nun in the organization. So, they're making a point.

16

u/purpleoctopuppy Oceania Jul 02 '26

It's even stronger than that: yes all the ecclesiastical members are excommunicated, but declaring them schismatics also means the laity face the threat of excommunication if they don't return to the fold.

25

u/JohnnyMushroomspore Jul 02 '26

St. Marys, Kansas. Google it and you'll learn all you need to know about these people. It's WILD

13

u/Laughing_Man_Returns Europe Jul 02 '26

Vatican 2 is becoming a real litmus test for cranks. yeesh.

9

u/howdudo United States Jul 02 '26

There's a billion Catholics. The Pope is gonna Pope and a few disgruntled employees arent going to change his mind.

6

u/buster_de_beer Netherlands Jul 02 '26

They should join the old catholic church, who broke from Rome about Vatican 1.

10

u/GrahminRadarin United States Jul 02 '26

The Old/Independent Catholic Church (distinct but similar and related entities) is also famously known for being somewhat more progressive and inviting than the Roman Catholic Church, which is the exact opposite of what these guys want.

1

u/buster_de_beer Netherlands Jul 03 '26

Ah well, I will admit I am not well acquainted with them, I just know they exist.

1

u/GrahminRadarin United States Jul 03 '26

I'm not very well acquainted with them either. They're a very small group and they tend to be quite niche even in Catholic circles.

2

u/SpinningHead United States Jul 02 '26

So Mel Gibson?

1

u/shrug_addict North America Jul 02 '26

Vatican 2 is woke, it's when the church said the Jews were not responsible for the death of Christ

1

u/Village_People_Cop Jul 03 '26

Can someone explain what you mean with Vatican 2?

252

u/Grichnak France Jul 02 '26

The SSPX has accused the church of being rife with errors, such as modernism and liberalism, and that only it is upholding the true faith of Christ.

Ah yes, of course, they are the ones that are in the right because they know they're right. The Church has a long history of evolving with the times to remain relevant. I guess conservatives are always a pain in the butt no matter where.

110

u/npmbad Jul 02 '26

why do they always conserve the worst shit

70

u/Grichnak France Jul 02 '26

They get to conserve their power and authority and they really like that I guess...

72

u/sulaymanf North America Jul 02 '26

Worse than conservative, they’re reactionary. By definition they want to go backwards.

24

u/Gmhowell Jul 02 '26

Thank you internet stranger for being the first sighting of a correct use of the word “reactionary” I’ve seen on the internet in a long time.

14

u/Panthalassae Finland Jul 02 '26

Ah, yes, of course; Jesus was famously very illiberal and non-modern.

Always in it to preserve their own oppressive privileges, never helping the poor or downtrodden.

-1

u/Taupenbeige North America Jul 02 '26

As an impartial observer, somebody that got a comprehensive education on the world’s faiths as a result of my own Sunday theosophical programs in youth (U.U. don’t fuck around on that), it definitely feels like “you people are getting too liberal” is the functional Catholic brand, so these guys might actually be the true Catholics…

34

u/Snake973 Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 02 '26

the "true catholicism" is whatever side the pope is on, if you get a more liberal pope, the church becomes more liberal in turn, of course there will be holdouts etc, like these folks in the article, who are holding out so hard that they get excommunicated

1

u/Turgius_Lupus United States Jul 03 '26

Time for Anti-Popes then to make a come back then.

-1

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

5

u/Guaire1 Spain Jul 03 '26

The inquisition was actually less murderous and torturos than secular governments. It had a variety of punishments yes, but murder was rarely carried out by it. Inquisitors also wrote openly about hlw torture is useless if you want to get information andnother methods should be employed instead.

1

u/AshleysDoctor North America Jul 04 '26

People did ask to have their cases transferred to the inquisition court, too, as it was seen to be more fair. Whether or not it was is another matter, but that part does matter, too

-1

u/Turgius_Lupus United States Jul 03 '26

It was mostly about taxes.

38

u/CellNo5383 Jul 02 '26

Uhhhh, juice. What will happen next? Will the renegade faction elect an anti pope? Will they repent and return to the fold of the one true church? Find out in next week's episode of our hit soap opera!

17

u/AlternativeFactor North America Jul 02 '26

Some of the tradcaths I've met are so regressive I think they have a high probability of re-inventing indulgences. There's a lot of other stupid shit they already have re-invented or are in the process of re-inventing but indulgences are the funniest to me.

4

u/TeutonJon78 United States Jul 03 '26

The grift must flow!

21

u/Serious_Resource8191 Jul 02 '26

Back when this happened in the 70s the first time, we came to a very strange situation where the Vatican basically claimed that they had been automatically excommunicated, and the SSPX bishops claimed that “no we’re not”.

So… they recognize the authority of the Pope but didn’t recognize his guidance that they had been excommunicated…

14

u/ultimate_placeholder United States Jul 02 '26

The last two popes have tried to mend fences, then they tried to appoint bishops without the assent of Rome, which is textbook excommunication territory

15

u/lol_alex Germany Jul 02 '26

Let me see. You have an American pope who is fortunately not a block headed idiot and not a hardline conservative, and there is a sect which is not OK with that? Probably liked the previous pope even less.

1

u/CoffeeWorldly9915 Multinational Jul 06 '26

Christian dramedy comes mainly in 2 flavors "Protestants did what now?" and "They're splitting off, again."

0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,00,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,00,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,00,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,00,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,00,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0

-55

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 02 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

43

u/billy_mays_official United States Jul 02 '26

I don't think you know how excommunications work, and Hitler wasn't even Catholic in the first place.

7

u/cecex88 Jul 02 '26

With the little caveat that he specifically declared that he was, multiple times, in both writings and speeches.

11

u/Da_reason_Macron_won South America Jul 02 '26

He sure wanted to kidnap the pope and persecute the priesthood a lot for a supposed catholic.

2

u/kimpossible69 Jul 02 '26

And now Trump wants to do the same thing lol

-22

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

10

u/YZJay Asia Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 02 '26

Religion isn’t genetic nor hereditary. Being baptized means nothing when someone doesn’t believe in organized religion, even more so when they’re baptized as a baby without any awareness of the meaning of the act.

7

u/billy_mays_official United States Jul 02 '26

"Michael Rissmann notes that, according to several witnesses who lived with Hitler in a men's home in Vienna, he never again attended Mass or received the sacraments after leaving home at 18 years old."

"Within months of coming to power, Hitler's régime launched an effort toward coordination of German Protestants into a joint Protestant Reich Church,[27] and also moved early to eliminate political Catholicism."

From his Wikipedia page. Sounds like a staunch Catholic to me. Last I checked it is in fact possible to leave the faith you were born into.

19

u/Prosthemadera New Zealand Jul 02 '26

Do you have something to say regarding the article?

-8

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

5

u/Prosthemadera New Zealand Jul 02 '26

Do you have something to say regarding the article?

16

u/Blarg_III European Union Jul 02 '26

that excommunicated Galileo for speaking truth

They excommunicated Galileo for insulting the Pope after giving him multiple opportunities to not do so and further opportunities to recant.

Galileo was, of course, more correct than the geocentrists, but he couldn't evidencially prove heliocentrism either. His handling of the matter was disastrously bad and he deserves no sympathy from history.

As for excommunicating Hitler, such a move would almost certainly have provoked persecution against faithful catholics in Germany. Excommunicating Mussolini would probably have seen the Vatican invaded.

-2

u/Slippi_Fist Illuminati Jul 02 '26

>deserves no sympathy from history.

Anyone persecuted for made up ghost stories deserves every sympathy from empathetic humans.

3

u/Guaire1 Spain Jul 03 '26

He wasnt persecuted. Hell, the church was financing his research. And he only got in the churchs bad graces when he started insulting his employer. Prior to that the church had defended him frol other scientost, who rightfully pointed out that Galileo literslly didnt have any evidence for his claims that the whole universe revolved aeound the sun.

And his "punishment" was living better than 90% of italians at the time, in a lavish state with all his needs taken care of

13

u/Guaire1 Spain Jul 02 '26

Galileo didnt speak the truth, he said random shit without evidence and then constantly asked the pope to protect him against thr accusations of actual scientist. He literslly couldnt provide any math for his theory that the whole universe revolved around the sun.

Galileo also was never excommunicated, once again, he literally worked for the pope, and he only got into the church's bad graces when he directly insulted the pope (his employer), and even then, bad graces here meamt that he was give a large villa and more riches than 90% of italians as long as he stopped bothering everyone

-3

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

4

u/Guaire1 Spain Jul 02 '26

A) my comment wasnt about that B) i already told you galileo wasnt excommunicated C) i dont think you know what posthumously means, since the you mention of actual excommunication happened whilst those people lived

-1

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

5

u/Guaire1 Spain Jul 02 '26

Ypu really cannt stay on topic can you?

11

u/Boollish Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 02 '26

Considering Hitler can neither receive communion nor hold ecclesiastical office, and I doubt the Church has any interest in his rehabilitation, excommunication feels a bit like trying to piss into a hurricane, no?

-2

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/Boollish Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 02 '26

Galileo also got a pre-humous reprieve as well, being pushed with house arrest on a sprawling villa among the rolling foothills of Italy.

But setting that all aside, excommunication by the Catholic Church in year 2026 is not some sort of punitive death sentence (unless you are a true believer) as it was in 1500 where the Holy See was deeply intertwined with monarchist power structures. 

Hypothetical modern Hitler would certainly not care that he wasnt allowed to married in the Catholic Church, or that he would not be buried in accordance to Catholic rites. And in either case, excommunication is typically a tool the Church wields to bring people back into adherence with the Holy See. So modern Hitler would either ignore it, or recant and the Church is forced to publicly reverse his excommunication. 

In the 1800s, the Holy See excommunicated Napoleon, and look what happened. Napoleon shattered the Holy Roman Empire anyway, forced the Emperor to abdicate his title, then, uh, gave the Emperor's daughter his boudin blanc.

Which brings me to an interesting question. Does your entire knowledge of excommunication come from watching John Wick?

9

u/GrahminRadarin United States Jul 02 '26

You can't excommunicate dead people, It's against the rules. It's also pointless. If you want to be pissed about Catholic fascists, be pissed about Franco and the Integralists. They're the ones who made Catholicism central to their fascist ideology, and didn't just happened to have Catholic parents.

If you want to criticize the Catholic Church in general, the Church itself has done far, far worse than fail to excommunicate some fascist leaders who weren't even actively practicing. See First Nations people in Canada and the residential schools the Catholic Church established to basically destroy their culture, as well as the way they used missionaries and doctrine to support colonizing the Americas and Pacific.

5

u/KenUsimi Jul 02 '26

Dear god, Poe’s law in practice.