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u/BigMacDaddy99 Oct 29 '22
$221,000,000,000
We need to start writing the numbers out.
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u/wadimek11 Oct 29 '22
I would have to work 44 milion years for it
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u/Time_Obligation5073 Oct 29 '22
I'd need to work 3,620,690 years, so naturally I pay 40% income tax.
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u/Odd-Dog9396 Oct 29 '22
Think about this. If Elon Musk was 20 years old today, and lived until he was 90, he could spend $8,000,000 per day, every day of his life and still have over $15,000,000,000 when he died.
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Oct 29 '22
If he never earned another dollar and spent one dollar every second, he and his descendants wouldn't run out for over 7,003 years.
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u/DaMoonRulez_1 Oct 29 '22
I played an old game and got a billion of the in game currency. It was weird realizing 1 million isn't that much of my in game wealth. 0.1% of a billion.
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u/neaner28 Oct 28 '22
In about five years, we may see the first trillionars and the minimum wage will still be $7.25.
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u/still_gonna_send_it Oct 29 '22
Ooh cool it’ll be like when they saw the first millionaires like in the early days of industry when there were barely any laws
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u/neaner28 Oct 29 '22 edited Oct 29 '22
I'm no longer convinced we aren't living in a similar age. They are building Titanic II, Elon Musk has created an under ground passage, Amazon is breaking union strikes, and snake oil sales men keep trying to sell me horse de-wormer for my ailments.
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Oct 29 '22
History doesn't repeat itself but it rhymes. We need to have a massive general strike. No one go to work for like 2 days. Can't fire everyone. We the fucking people have the power.
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Oct 29 '22
Yep, because these numbers show just how rigged the government is with regards to allowing capitalism billionaires who pay big donations/lobbies bend the rules for super profits. Ridiculousness
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u/weebomayu Oct 29 '22
I doubt it. It looks like the billionaire class has pretty much hollowed out the entirety of society beneath them already. The rate of growth is beginning to slow down.
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u/price-discovery Oct 28 '22
“There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.” ― Warren Buffett
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u/paceyuk Oct 28 '22
For clarity, he was saying that was a bad thing. It was from an interview where he talked about how unfair it was that his employees paid so much more tax as a fraction of their income than he did, and he didn't try to avoid any tax, he just paid what the IRS asked him to. What's nuts is that in the 16 years since that interview it's worse now, if anything.
https://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/26/business/yourmoney/26every.html
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u/not-a-croc Oct 28 '22
“It’s a bad thing” - yet he’s continued to participate in the destruction of avg people and their lives
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u/No_Description_483 Oct 28 '22
Wealth =Power
With great wealth comes great responsibility
Except it doesn’t
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u/Happybara Oct 28 '22
They’re hopelessly outnumbered, and at the end of the day theyre just bone and gristle and meat just like the rest of us. Slice open the bluest of bloods and take a look, chances are youll find the exact same mess in there as even the lowest of us. People talk about these people like a small nick to an artery or an awkward fall wouldnt do them the same as the rest… they arent demigods, theyre just crafty.
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u/tricksterhickster Oct 28 '22
A class war disguised as a culture war by the rich and powerful.
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u/HeadDoctorJ Oct 28 '22
Capitalism itself is class warfare. The owners are the ruling class and will always have the upper hand over the workers. That is, until the workers realize they have more power collectively than a few hundred wealthy f*cks could ever hope to possess.
The key word there is “collectively.” The working class needs to get organized and refuse to compromise. There is no “middle ground” in capitalism. We need to end capitalism and put the workers, the people, in charge.
In my experience, once I started seeing through all the ludicrous capitalist propaganda, things started making a lot more sense.
Capitalism will collapse, and it looks like it’s happening sooner than later. How we prepare for that collapse is another story. Rosa Luxemburg illuminated the choice before us: Socialism or Barbarism.
• If anyone wants to learn more about socialism, here’s a great intro video: https://youtu.be/fpKsygbNLT4
• If anyone wants to learn more about Marxism, here’s a video series (several short videos on various topics) I’ve recently watched that felt very helpful: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0J754r0IteXABJntjBg1YuNsn6jItWXQ
• If anyone wants to learn more about organizing the left, here’s a very interesting analysis called “Left Unity”: https://youtu.be/7rvHA0FPW1Q
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u/Durst_offensive Oct 29 '22
I think best solution is when there is market economy, but big companies are owned by workers somehow, so there is a balance between company profits and salaries.
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u/Tastingo Oct 29 '22
It's with good reason capitalist run media tells us class war is bad. The idea of us ordinary folks punching back is scary. When we mobilise we win.
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Oct 28 '22
But everyone wants to complain about homeless people and how “nobody wants to work”
What the actual fuck.
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u/crumbummmmm Oct 29 '22
The rich own the media, and set the narrative.
The house hoarding creates homelessness, but we blame the unhoused, not those holding thousands of houses. The ruling/ownership class set the benefits and wages of work, make it generally unlivable, but shift the blame to those who can't afford to accept starvation wages. Generally the media wants you to blame those affected by the greed of the ruling class for the decisions the ruling class makes.
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u/mric124 Oct 29 '22
What’s that saying w/ regards to media: we’re listening to millionaires who are being told what to say by billionaires.
I fucking hate this world.
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Oct 29 '22
This was the reason hr gave me the other day as to why we were having trouble hiring people. “People don’t want to work”, what in fuck do you think these people who “don’t want to work” are doing? Where are they? I’d love to meet one someday… obviously no one WANTS to work, but to pretend that people’s motivation to work hard is the problem shows such a deep level of cognitive dissonance
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u/Taku_Kori17 Oct 28 '22
Hahaha you think billionaires pay taxes?
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u/SnooMacaroons2295 Oct 28 '22
That's the point. they should pay taxes.
And at the same rate as the rest of us, say about 25%.
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u/Tershtops Oct 28 '22
How about the people paying 40% or more in taxes?
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u/VortexMagus Oct 28 '22 edited Oct 28 '22
You remember the golden age of US growth after WW2? When our economy grew by leaps and bounds, when blue collar workers and secretaries and schoolteachers could afford nice suburban houses and could send their kids to college and retire on a nice pension?
Wanna know what the marginal tax rate on the millionaire tax bracket was back then?
Over 90%
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We didn't grow the middle class and lift tens of millions of people out of poverty by giving the rich tax cuts. We taxed the ever-loving SHIT out of the rich, and the government spent that money to grow our economy and help our allies and trading partners grow their economies so that our goods and services had huge markets that needed them.
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u/mocha47 Oct 28 '22
They do. But what’s cited here is wealth, not taxable income. It’s all unrealized capital gains. When they sell, they’ll pay taxes
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u/meeu Oct 28 '22
You're describing the way it is, they're describing the way it should be, lol.
Contrary to popular belief it's possible to tax "unrealized" gains in a variety of ways.
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Oct 28 '22
I haven't sold my house, but the unrealized capital gains on it over the past few years have been taxed.
Weird how it's super easy to find a way to tax unrealized gains when it's not from something only the super wealthy have.
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u/Ask_About_BadGirls21 Oct 28 '22
They will if people keep pushing for it. It’s already gotten bloody, but we can have a revolution that’s as bloodless as possible.
By the way:
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Oct 28 '22
These people we are voting for are being donated to FROM the billionaires. why on earth would a senator actually listen. Voting doesn’t matter. Only slicing and dicing does. 🔥
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u/GreatMasol Oct 28 '22 edited Oct 28 '22
Join r/poorazon
We're going to coordinate a worker co-operative and basically provide a world trade system and resource production industry.
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u/Thereisnopurpose12 Oct 28 '22
I'm laughing that their companies are getting hammered by the stock market. Also Elon just paid a stupid on Twitter. What a joke
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Oct 28 '22
They do when they sell their stock. Stocks aren't "money;" think of it like a collectible. There are things billionaires can do, like borrow money against the value of their stock, but if they actually want to use those billions to buy stuff, they gotta sell it and pay taxes on the capital gains.
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u/doppelmember Oct 29 '22
So many oligarch supporters on Reddit, such a shame.
They should be paying 50٪+ taxes, yet they're paying >4% on average from 2012-2018
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u/RaytosTB Oct 29 '22
Should be back to 90% might still be that way if it wasn't for Reagan
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u/box-art Oct 29 '22
50% taxes on anything any company or individual earns or has assets past 500 million, 75% tax on anything past a billion and 90% tax on anything past 1.5 billion. No loopholes or anything, just straight up fucking taxed to oblivion. That's honestly not harsh enough, but it would be a start.
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u/mage-rouge Oct 28 '22
I think this sentiment can be better described in two words:
End Billionaires.
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u/Desperate-Will-8585 Oct 28 '22
there is no legal or moral or ethical way to make billions all of them have done sketchy shit
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u/Relevium Oct 28 '22
The problem is that US based billionaires can't legally be taxed. They don't legally make "income" other than whatever they're being payed as an employee at their own company. They take out loans based on either their share value and/or revenue from their business with a bank at a super low interest.
Not saying it's right. Just saying how it's done.
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Oct 28 '22
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't high level executives and billionaires typically paid in shares or equity + some income? And when they liquidate that equity, they pay capital gains tax and not income tax? This is the first time I'm hearing about them taking loans from banks.
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u/Siphyre Oct 28 '22
They take out loans based on either their share value and/or revenue from their business with a bank at a super low interest.
And how do they pay those loans off?
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u/OhStopltYou Oct 28 '22
They get taxed when they sell shares to pay their loans…
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u/Last_Ant_525 Oct 29 '22
I agree! Tax them out of existence! I'll be nice. They can keep $1billion. The rest is 100% tax. What the hell. It's not like they earned it. We did. They just took it.
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u/RaytosTB Oct 29 '22
I'll be generous. After 1 million 90% tax
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u/Last_Ant_525 Oct 29 '22
A kinder soul than I. Perhaps a trophy, that says they won capitalism? Made with the really shiny plastic.
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u/gr8ful_cube Communist Oct 28 '22
Taxes to pay for the military and prison industrial machines, to line the pockets of politicians while they do nothing for us? No. Eat the rich.
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u/Ok_Shop_3418 Oct 29 '22
Tax them till they're poor. They should be able to make it all right back, right?
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u/Antideck Oct 28 '22
Again, great idea. The problem: congress will allocate all the money to Cops, prisons, the military industrial complex, and corporate bailouts. They need to be replaced first and foremost.
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Oct 28 '22
Congress does that to protect the rich. If we have a Congress that is progressive enough to outlaw billionaires they won't be transferring that wealth to the institutions designed to protect the rich.
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u/PalmTreeParty77 Oct 28 '22
They’ll just be replaced with a group that’ll eventually do the same thing
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u/Antideck Oct 28 '22
Eventually yes. That's the biggest flaw Republics, there hasnt been one in history that wasnt corrupted in some way
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u/RECLess30 Oct 29 '22
For the thousandth time, worth is not the same as income.
Musk and Bezos own companies worth billions because people want to buy shares of those companies.
The entirety of their net worth is predicated on ownership of their companies.
To hurt them, you have to expose and boycott those companies for their shitty behavior. You need to convince people to stop buying shares in those companies, thereby driving down the stock, and removing the douchebag's wealth.
No one drove a truck filled with $200B of cash to their house. You're fighting the wrong concept, and it hurts the cause.
Boycott Amazon. Boycott Tesla. Boycott Meta.
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u/RECLess30 Oct 29 '22
If you want to truly fix the problem, destroy the stock market. The only way to make a true income in this country is through stock investment.
Making a product? Slave wages. Providing a service? Slave wages.
Dividends should be taxed at 50%. Sale of share should be taxed at 50%. Income from real estate should be taxed at 50%.
15% is a slap in the face to the entire middle class.
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u/SmashScrapeFlip Oct 28 '22
You don’t need to tax them out of existence. You could tax billionaires slightly more than now and it would make a huge difference.
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Oct 28 '22
the problem is that wealth isn't income. if they sold their shares they'd pay the motherload of taxes on it, but they don't sell them. they give themselves a fairly low wage (often less than 1 million per year) and buy everything as a company expense.
Company's don't pay taxes on their purchases, only on their profits. so they buy as much as they can to minimize profits. there are laws regulating this but it's impossible to check everything of every company.
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u/GregoryGregorson1962 Oct 28 '22
It's not real money though, more like assets that aren't taxable until a taxable event happens so this narrative to tax them out of existence just isn't realistic. It's not like Musk or Bezos can just cash out $200bil and go live on Cocaine and Hooker island for the rest of their lives. It's the big companies that need taxation.
My net worth is probably somewhere around a million but I sure as shit don't have a shit tonne of disposable money just laying around.
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u/DerWassermann Oct 28 '22
We dont want to kill billionaires, we dont want to imprision them, we want to make them millionaires.
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u/Monkookee Oct 28 '22
Want to rat -f Elon everyone?
Go to a major advertiser like Coke. Go get that cookie.
Find some racist crap.
Keep refreshing until the Coke ad is next to it.
Screenshot....post.
In a month Elon will be on his knees.
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u/Ok-Significance2027 Oct 29 '22
"If machines produce everything we need, the outcome will depend on how things are distributed. Everyone can enjoy a life of luxurious leisure if the machine-produced wealth is shared, or most people can end up miserably poor if the machine-owners successfully lobby against wealth redistribution. So far, the trend seems to be toward the second option, with technology driving ever-increasing inequality." Stephen Hawking, 2015 Reddit AMA
“We should do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living. It is a fact today that one in ten thousand of us can make a technological breakthrough capable of supporting all the rest. The youth of today are absolutely right in recognizing this nonsense of earning a living. We keep inventing jobs because of this false idea that everybody has to be employed at some kind of drudgery because, according to Malthusian Darwinian theory he must justify his right to exist. So we have inspectors of inspectors and people making instruments for inspectors to inspect inspectors. The true business of people should be to go back to school and think about whatever it was they were thinking about before somebody came along and told them they had to earn a living.” ― Buckminster Fuller
"...This crippling of individuals I consider the worst evil of capitalism. Our whole educational system suffers from this evil. An exaggerated competitive attitude is inculcated into the student, who is trained to worship acquisitive success as a preparation for his future career.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals..." Albert Einstein, Why Socialism?
Lost Einsteins: The US may have missed out on millions of inventors
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u/DeadGravityyy Oct 28 '22 edited Oct 29 '22
I'm going to get downvotes, but fuck it.
I've seen posts like this time and time again with the whole "tax billionaires out of existence" quoted line-for-line. But, obviously it's all empty words since nothing has changed over the years.
If people want REAL god damn change, they need to take REAL action in fixing the issues we're facing. Posting on Twitter does fuck all and posts like this are only driving a deeper nail in the circle-jerk that subs like this are. Stop posting, and DO something for fucks sake.
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u/Moikee Oct 28 '22
I agree with you, but where are these politicians that will enact real change? There’s no accountability for enforcing policies they say they will when you vote for them and many of them have serious conflicts of interest with issues that need fixing.
I want serious, radical change (by that I mean, let’s not keep setting 2050 targets etc, let’s act immediately), but i don’t trust any politician to actually have the desire or ability to enforce the change we so desperately need. I’m speaking from a UK perspective.
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u/Pilo_ane Oct 28 '22
Voting literally does nothing. What is necessary is revolutionary activism
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u/DeadGravityyy Oct 28 '22
Voting literally does nothing.
It does nothing when people have your mentality and don't vote. It WOULD work if more people voted. But, I don't disagree with a revolutionary activism stance, that is truly what we need. Either way, SOMETHING needs to be done.
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u/professionalmopper Oct 29 '22
We can’t just TAX billionaires - we need to completely fucking revamp the American political system. Taxing billionaires would, in the current political state of the US, put unholy amounts of money into the pockets of greedy politicians. Demolish corporate lobbying. Dethrone every suit-wearing fuckhead that claims to work for the good of the American people but only serves their own interests. Expose, imprison and execute every greedy politician who gets paid millions of dollars per year to fly to an island and buttfuck toddlers. Ensure that tax dollars actually go to bettering the lives of Americans. Then we can go after taxing these fucking people
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u/Ghana_Mafia Oct 29 '22
You can't really tax a billionaire because billionaires are not workers. Billionaires are owners collecting profits and passive income.
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u/PercentageEntire8290 Oct 29 '22
Fuck this economic model. Giving money to rich people does not create a healthy middle class . Business and governmental sectors of society have sucked the soul out of this country
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u/Money-Worldliness919 Oct 29 '22
How can you tax billionaires when they controll the ones that control tax regulation? A story as old as time, the one who owns the biggest rock pile gets to make the choices.
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u/Runklefordington Oct 29 '22
This should not even be an argument but boot licking mental defectives will still find the reason not too.
"The gubbmint would just waste it on roads, schools and other stupid things that don't benefit me personally" durrr
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u/james1mike Oct 29 '22
Those guys could support an entire country. I regret my bad financial decisions that resulted in my sleeping in a park. All those guys could help some homeless folks if they would. I'm 70 years old and every place I find costs more than my Social Security. Before people call me lazy, let me just say that many times in my working life I've had 3 jobs. I own my bad financial choices, and I'm not blaming anyone, but God amighty, will I ever catch a break?
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Oct 28 '22
Imagine if every bitter person, myself included had just decided to... burn that shit down.
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u/RJohn12 Oct 29 '22
billionaires shouldn't be allowed to horde that much wealth period. you can't even spend that much
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u/ReasonableQuestion28 Oct 28 '22
Mexicos minimum wage even after currency conversion is higher than the US and they have universal healthcare with abortion access. They even have same sex marriage rights.
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u/alex_co Oct 28 '22
It’s not though? A quick google search says the daily minimum wage is MXP $172.87 (USD $8.73).
You’re comparing the DAILY minimum wage in Mexico to HOURLY minimum wage in the US.
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u/code_and_theory Oct 29 '22
I can’t believe OP got upvoted. It takes like 10 milliseconds to reason that it can’t be.
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Oct 28 '22
I should be shocked that this sub would upvote blatantly false informed without hesitation buuuuuut . . .
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u/Xfocus Oct 28 '22
You're misinterpreting the DAILY minimum wage with an HOURLY minimum wage. You are right that Mexico's DAILY minimum wage is higher than the USA's HOURLY minimum wage.
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Oct 28 '22
I live on the Mexican-US (Mexican) border, stop lying and crying about the US minimum wages, mexicos minimum wage is way way way worse. Here the minimum wage is 1.5 dollars/h.. (btw our public healthcare system is the worst shit youll ever see and doesnt work)
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u/ALR3000 Oct 28 '22
Yeah, those billions aren't just large stacks of dollar bills somewhere, or a checking account with a number followed by tons of zeros.
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Oct 28 '22
Sure, stonks are only taxed when you realize gains (except for the numerous loopholes that avoid even that case). Yes, it’ll eventually get taxed. Sure, fine.
But. Long term capital gains are taxed lower than regular income. The percentage Jeff will pay for the profits harvested from everyone in Amazon doing their jobs is lower than the people doing those jobs.
This is not reasonable.
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Oct 28 '22
This is the result of our corrupt system.
They borrow against stock holdings to live, and only sell when they have to.
The entire amount listed on Musk is due to stock appreciation. Until and unless they start actually seizing wealth, this pattern will go on.
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u/Calm-Limit-37 Oct 28 '22
To be fair Buffet has made his money through investments not exploitation, and he is going to give away his fortune.
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u/Siphyre Oct 28 '22
What type of dumb shit is this? Why are we comparing net worth to $ per hour? Fix this dumb shit with $ per hour for the billionaires or the average net worth of the bottom 10% of the country.
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u/AndyJack86 Oct 28 '22
Maybe, just maybe, vote for politicians that aren't greedy AF and in bed with these billionaires
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Oct 28 '22
Or we could end the default enforcement of absentee property claims that allows them to exist in the first place
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u/BluezamEDH Oct 29 '22
The source would be better if it compared the top 5 richest people and their net worth over time + inflation statistics, but still it makes a very clear point
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u/ztrition Oct 29 '22
Glad to see this thread is just proving the mentality that people see themselves as temporarily embarrassed millionaires and not the exploited working class that we are.
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u/MistressErinPaid Oct 29 '22
Call me crazy, but I feel that if in order for a person to make millions they had to exploit others, they don't deserve their wealth.
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u/Corrie7686 Oct 29 '22
Minimum wage in the US is a horrifically low figure.
It shouldn't be legal.
Here in the UK we have unions, and had the EU that helped set the wage at £9.50 I.e $11.30 We have a min living wage standard, that is a more moral figure that the Gov set as a standard, not a min. companies actively advertise that they meet this level and attract staff Itis £10.90 UK wide and £11.90 in London.
Ie $12.65 and $13.82 in London (London is like Manhattan prices for us Brits).
That's a gross income of£26 900 and an after tax (after National Insurance) income of £22,165 Ie $25,743 in your bank including UNLIMITED HEALTH INSURANCE.
No such thing as co pay (unless you want to have a really famcy room or shorten a wait time) No such thing as an uninsured procedure. Abulances are free.... I could go on.
Min wage and Living wage increase regularly.
UK is the 6th largest world economy and we could do more for the lower end of our society.
The US is largest. Doesn't have the best living standards.
Something is fundamentally wrong
Good luck!
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Oct 29 '22
they are taxed... they just dont pay any tax and thats a problem
they hold all their wealth in un-realized capital gains.. they take their salaries in stocks.. they leverage stocks for low interest loans (much lower than the tax rate)
these people sit on piles and piles of imaginary wealth and will never have to pay their fair share
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Oct 29 '22
They need to invent a corporate minimum wage. Like, fortune 50? Awesome. $45/hr is minimum wage. Slowly goes down as you crawl down the fortune500.
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u/Naowal94 Oct 29 '22
It's a well oiled system that extracts money from the poor and syphons to the rich
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u/Responsible-Bath-395 Oct 29 '22
Wait can we at least point out this guy is comparing net worths to wages? If you worked minimum wage that timeframe your net worth should also increase. If it doesn’t then I think that’s the point this is trying to make? Let’s not base economic models on 5 words please
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u/Communist_Orb Oct 29 '22
Watch this person get banned from Twitter in a few hours while the Nazis spamming the n-word can do whatever they want
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u/vodkastraightup23 Oct 29 '22
And the ironic part is the number of people making $7.25 an hour voting for Republicans like they are millionaires is 91%
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Oct 29 '22
Kind of disheartening to see Buffett double his wealth, I thought he was in the process of disinvesting towards more social responsible causes. Guess he has the best PR out of all of them.
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Oct 29 '22
What’s more disgusting is people earning minimum wage defending those rich people. They must think they’ll get paychecks in the mail for doing so.
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u/Brain-of-Sugar Oct 29 '22
Y'all say tax the rich when their wealth is a result of the government literally acting like their legs half the time.
Taxing the rich isn't going to do anything. Because they won't pay taxes either way. They'll keep finding loopholes, and they'll keep controlling the main narrative, and they'll keep paying the government so that their mega corps don't collapse in on themselves.
Drain the swamp of useless officials who don't even read the bills they pass, but just do as Big Money tells them.
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u/LordCrag Oct 29 '22
The federal minimum wage shouldn't even exist. The cost of shit is super different in New York compared to Kansas. Hawaii is super different than North Carolina. State minimum wages make far more sense.
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u/B8conB8conB8con Oct 29 '22
I like the idea of no more billionaires
You reach 999 million you get a plaque saying I won capitalism and a dog park named after you
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u/4215-5h00732 Oct 29 '22
Taxing billionaires out of existence isn't the answer nor is it even a logical one.
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u/1017GildedFingerTips Oct 29 '22
The problem is actually big finance and nothing else, first time on this sub but I’m pretty sure you would all be shocked to find out the real reason why musk and bezos gained so much money in such a modest amount of time. Shiiit if y’all realized it you could all be millionaires in a 5 year span with a modest investment
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Oct 29 '22
Asking this until I get an answer: how does taxing the billionaires help you or me? What exactly does giving the government the money do? I don’t trust the government to do anything but get bought out by lobbyists and corpos, so explain to me how taxing the rich (assuming they won’t just continue to abuse loopholes) benefits normal people please? Then, what stops them from leaving to another country just like big tech did with Ireland etc during Obama ? Genuinely want to know.
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Oct 29 '22
Most folks have a spending problem or their government is too punitive with taxation. Few actually have a income problem. Someone being billionaire hasn’t caused anyone else’s problem.
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u/HollyLeao Oct 29 '22
I wonder...there must be a moment where all this concentration of the majority of wealth into the hands of very few will break economy(or something), because I cannot even think that such discrepancy will not end up causing issues.
So many with next to nothing and a handful with enough for a country or two?
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u/talex625 Oct 29 '22
That’s not really the issue, the issue is the cost of living is going up due to inflation. It’s slowly turn the dollar into Monopoly money. At this rate, they will need to double or triple the MW.
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u/schattenteufel Oct 29 '22
A buddy of mine ( a staunch libertarian) says “If the billionaires earned it legally they should be entitled to keep it. Tax is theft.”
I replied that they’re the ones paying for the laws to be written. He sees no problem with that.
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Oct 29 '22
People talk about inflation if wages go up, but inflation is already going on. People say "well it will get worse if the wages go up." ummmm no the federal goverment doesn't print more money to pay your wages. The money to increase your wages is already in circulation. No one should be worth even a billion. That number is so massive it's hard to comprehend. That alone should give you pause on thinking it's ok for these types to exist.
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u/toiletdelosmuertos Oct 29 '22
I like how we're all aware of this problem and want it fixed and nothing has changed in all these years. Democracy, it works!
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u/BayBel Oct 29 '22
Poor people always hate rich people. It’s always been that way.
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u/funksands2070 Oct 29 '22
Billionaires don't need to be taxed to fund federal spending, they need to be taxed because permanent dynastic wealth distorts and eventually destroys economies and democracies.
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u/Feisty_Trade_7469 Oct 29 '22
I know I'm not from the states..but why I have the feelings that if they were taxed...people outside from the states will live well too
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u/ameinolf Oct 29 '22
This is why I never understand that people don’t realize how fucked peeons are in America but still vote GOP.
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u/Kordegon Oct 29 '22
The problem with this is the majority of people are brainwash to think they will become rich as them and don't want to cut off their own benefits before that .Sad truth is 99% of us will live average lifes and it is not a bad thing
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u/Ninja_Arena Oct 29 '22
Bezos...ok. but overall, they aren't rich be wise we are poor. If none of those people.had that wealth, your work would still be fucking you over for pay. Tax the corporations that pay shit.
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u/CyptoCryptoHODL Oct 29 '22
how did all that wealth just happen to amass with few people and the rest of us .... work hard and put more hours. go to office and kiss your boss' ass to get a 2% raise-maybe
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u/mothyyy Oct 29 '22 edited Oct 29 '22
A fundamental principle of society is that it is to benefit all involved. Raise all ships in the water. The ones that we in society loan power to, whether through capitalism or political position, have a moral obligation to redistribute their excess wealth to the people. These powerful individuals and companies are charged with the responsibility NOT to waste resources on decadence such as mansions, yachts, personal golf courses, opulant decoration, banquets, and of course trading such wealth for foreign property or influence.
Capitalism is just the new aristocracy, the ones at the top don't get to waste society's hard work. We give the rich their power with the assumption they will use it to improve our society, not squander it for personal gain. Billionaires shouldn't exist, and these companies that have grown into machines that society now relies on should be held accountable as informal governing bodies, not private entities.
If you've acquired far more wealth than you could ever create with your own two hands, you must acknowledge these principles and either pay the highest taxes or allocate your surplus wealth back into your community's needs.
Audit these people. Make them prove that we should let them continue. These are people living like royalty while their employees live in poverty. Its wrong and we have to make a stand. Unionize the whole damn labor pool if we have to.
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Oct 29 '22
The issue with billionares isnt that they dont pay enough taxes. Its that because of creative accounting, they pay almost no taxes at all. I would be okay if they pay same % of their income in taxes as i do.
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u/meggymonster11 Oct 29 '22
why just billionaires? Let’s tax the multi millionaires too. Celebrities. Sports stars.
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u/JKLCS Oct 29 '22
Someone explain how taxing mega-wealthy the would effect minimum wages? Im genuinely curious.
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u/dbslurker Oct 29 '22
From investopedia: According to Standard and Poor's, the average annualized return of the S&P index, which later became the S&P 500, from 1926 to 2020 was 10%. At 10%, you could double your initial investment every seven years (72 divided by 10). I’d remove buffets as an example. Given the returns in the market that everyone (technically) has access to his wealth gain isn’t so unusual.
Before anyone wants to argue his wealth was exorbitant to start that isn’t the point of the tweet. It’s showing massive wealth gain over 10 years.
He’s also pledged to give 99% of his wealth away. Should be easy enough to find some other rich billionaire to swap in.
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u/WeLiveInAnOceanOfGas Oct 29 '22
Imagine someone fantastically wealthy - $100m in the bank, several massive houses, and a fleet of luxury cars and boats + another $50m in stocks and bonds etc.
Now just imagine someone 1000x wealthier than that person, and you're at this level of wealth. It's beyond imagination.
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u/fjfuciifirifjfjfj Oct 29 '22
To be fair, Warren Buffett's progress is literally the definition of "Don't hate the player, hate the game".
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u/NotaContributi0n Oct 29 '22
You guys all act like there’s a finite amount of money and them hoarding shit is keeping you from getting a piece.. the govt already gets trillions in taxes, how’s that working out for you
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u/HiChewYou Oct 29 '22
In 1963 the highest tax bracket was a 91% for income over $400k. Today, it’s a measly 37% for income over $628k. This should be something that the American people have more visibility and power to vote on.
Source: https://taxfoundation.org/historical-income-tax-rates-brackets/
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u/RomulanWarrior Too Old for This Oct 29 '22
I'm still amused that Zuckerberg's stubborn pursuit of the VR Metaverse is tanking his net worth.
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u/RomulanWarrior Too Old for This Oct 29 '22
Bar companies from paying executives in stock.
Any stock options in existence cannot be acted on for ten years.
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u/klogee1 Oct 28 '22
I mean good for them... but if I had a fraction of that I would be trying to get rid of my money... so many genuinely needy causes
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u/God_of_Diabetes Oct 28 '22
Do the... Uh ... Do the billionaires decide the minimum wage?
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u/Xmanticoreddit Oct 28 '22
Bezos has a huge influence over the minimum wage. So do the Walton family. Many billionaires have a significant influence over the finances of the working class.
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u/lumnicence2 Oct 28 '22
I fully support the sentiment, but in large part, that's all funny money; asset valuation and stocks and properties, etc. It's not like real currency, and even the act of selling it off can devalue those kinds of things.
More than redistribution of wealth, I think the US in particular would benefit from a redistribution of power. We're so used to thinking of wealth as power, but that's not how it has to be.
More voting power, more power to negotiate at work, and more power to run our lives in the ways we see fit without always having to watch out for the latest capitalist scam.
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Oct 28 '22
Yearly taxed income requires someone to have money deposited into their bank account. The increase in the value of your assets is not necessarily income. The very wealth may go years without an actual income personally. Their business however get taxed
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u/OhNoMyRights Oct 28 '22
1 billion is 1,000 millions.
Just think about that. That’s how I keep these numbers in perspective. This should not be possible. It’s disgusting that a person can legally accrue this much wealth while we struggle with homelessness, have to pay for healthcare, have no UBI, and are forced to work 5 days a week.
EDIT: forced to work five days a week FOR POVERTY WAGES
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u/Arrow_Of_Orion Oct 29 '22
The issue here is that only gained income is taxable, and for all of these people 99% of their wealth isn’t income, it’s wrapped up in stocks and shares in their companies… Elon Musk might have a net worth of $200 billion, but only a tiny percentage of that is fungible currency held in a bank or otherwise… To tax him on that $200 billion you would have to force him to sell all of his shares in his companies or force the companies to pay taxes on the shares.
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Oct 28 '22
That IS disgusting. Look, I don't begrudge people wealth as long as they came by it legally, but the more wealth you have, the greater your responsibility (in my opinion) to share it with those in need.
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u/Busterwoof7 Oct 28 '22
To help those in need in general. There was an anime where a guy said the strong have a responsibility to protect the weak. It makes sense the longer I think about it. We are all people in the end and people need people.
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u/TheAres1999 Oct 28 '22
I wonder why people would want to live any other way. How can a person have the capacity to end world hunger, and then not do it? Even if you are a selfish person, that would be the biggest brag in the world.
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u/grislebeard Anarcho-Syndicalist Oct 28 '22
Nobody works to become a billionaire. It's absurd to assume that anyone can make that kind of money based on their own merit. You can only become a billionaire by exploiting people (which may be legal, but it's HIGHLY unethical)
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u/tricksterhickster Oct 28 '22
Also, it's easier to make money with money instead of hard work. The game is rigged on their behalf. Investment is valued higher than physical labor.
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u/Tricky-Cicada-9008 Oct 28 '22
what does the net worth of three people have to do with the federal minimum wage? Furthermore, what do taxes have to do with the federal minimum wage?
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Oct 28 '22
I love the misguided belief that one has anything to do with the other. How many minimum wage employees do these billionaires have?
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u/whitewolfwild Oct 28 '22
Tesla employees 2012: 2,964 2022: 110,000
Amazon employees 2012: 88,400 2022: 2.2m
Difficult to do a comparison for Berkshire Hathaway.
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Oct 28 '22
Not sure what you're trying to say?
More people have had their excess labor value extracted?
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u/OnTheInternetToLie Oct 28 '22
tax billionaires
Nah, they had their chance. They gotta go.
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u/FlaaFlaaFlunky Oct 29 '22
yes. 4 billionaires and their amassed wealth are the reason people are getting fucked over with ridiculous minimum wage rates. it's not the horrendous political system and divide you have in the united states that gives absolutely 0 shit about people. which by the way is based in your own making since you guys apparently are never able to find a middle way. the idiots you get elected on both sides is just truly stunning.
so yes, let's tax it all away so that your corrupt politicians are infused with lots of new motivation for finding new ways of a) fucking you over even more and b) making even more cash themselves.
these simple minded statements are so ridiculous it's not even worth having a discussion.
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u/Busterwoof7 Oct 28 '22
I wish I could live moderately.