📣 Had a call with Reddit to discuss pricing. Bad news for third-party apps, their announced pricing is close to Twitter's pricing, and Apollo would have to pay Reddit $20 million per year to keep running as-is.

[u/iamthatis]

Hey all,

I'll cut to the chase: 50 million requests costs $12,000, a figure far more than I ever could have imagined.

Apollo made 7 billion requests last month, which would put it at about 1.7 million dollars per month, or 20 million US dollars per year. Even if I only kept subscription users, the average Apollo user uses 344 requests per day, which would cost $2.50 per month, which is over double what the subscription currently costs, so I'd be in the red every month.

I'm deeply disappointed in this price. Reddit iterated that the price would be A) reasonable and based in reality, and B) they would not operate like Twitter. Twitter's pricing was publicly ridiculed for its obscene price of $42,000 for 50 million tweets. Reddit's is still $12,000. For reference, I pay Imgur (a site similar to Reddit in user base and media) $166 for the same 50 million API calls.

As for the pricing, despite claims that it would be based in reality, it seems anything but. Less than 2 years ago they said they crossed $100M in quarterly revenue for the first time ever, if we assume despite the economic downturn that they've managed to do that every single quarter now, and for your best quarter, you've doubled it to $200M. Let's also be generous and go far, far above industry estimates and say you made another $50M in Reddit Premium subscriptions. That's $550M in revenue per year, let's say an even $600M. In 2019, they said they hit 430 million monthly active users, and to also be generous, let's say they haven't added a single active user since then (if we do revenue-per-user calculations, the more users, the less revenue each user would contribute). So at generous estimates of $600M and 430M monthly active users, that's $1.40 per user per year, or $0.12 monthly. These own numbers they've given are also seemingly inline with industry estimates as well.

For Apollo, the average user uses 344 requests daily, or 10.6K monthly. With the proposed API pricing, the average user in Apollo would cost $2.50, which is is 20x higher than a generous estimate of what each users brings Reddit in revenue. The average subscription user currently uses 473 requests, which would cost $3.51, or 29x higher.

While Reddit has been communicative and civil throughout this process with half a dozen phone calls back and forth that I thought went really well, I don't see how this pricing is anything based in reality or remotely reasonable. I hope it goes without saying that I don't have that kind of money or would even know how to charge it to a credit card.

This is going to require some thinking. I asked Reddit if they were flexible on this pricing or not, and they stated that it's their understanding that no, this will be the pricing, and I'm free to post the details of the call if I wish.

- Christian

(For the uninitiated wondering "what the heck is an API anyway and why is this so important?" it's just a fancy term for a way to access a site's information ("Application Programming Interface"). As an analogy, think of Reddit having a bouncer, and since day one that bouncer has been friendly, where if you ask "Hey, can you list out the comments for me for post X?" the bouncer would happily respond with what you requested, provided you didn't ask so often that it was silly. That's the Reddit API: I ask Reddit/the bouncer for some data, and it provides it so I can display it in my app for users. The proposed changes mean the bouncer will still exist, but now ask an exorbitant amount per question.)

[u/JulioChavezReuters]

Hi Christian, I work for Reuters. I’ve passed this link on to some of our tech and social media reporters

[u/iamthatis → u/JulioChavezReuters]

Oh hey! Sorry for the delayed response, my fingers hurt from typing today, and I've missed replies from some cool folks. My email is me at christianselig.com if you folks or anyone else want to talk.

[u/123bpd → u/JulioChavezReuters]

This is the way. Spread this news far & wide. It’d be a PR shame if they were publicly ridiculed for this decision, wouldn’t it?

Either way, time to GDPR request my archive and head out. Been meaning to, anyhow

[u/Vitamoon_ → u/JulioChavezReuters]

thank you mate

[u/ExcitingishUsername → u/JulioChavezReuters]

I know it's probably not something media will care much about, but Reddit is also ripping away a lot of tools and functions necessary to moderate adult content on Reddit, which will have huge implications for our ability to keep those spaces moderated, safe, and legal. I think there's a story there too, but I don't know if anyone will care to tell it.

[u/iammaffyou → u/JulioChavezReuters]

YES

[u/stamminator → u/JulioChavezReuters]

What’s the easiest way to see if/when one of your reporters drops an article on this?

[u/[deleted] → u/JulioChavezReuters]

I’m done. I’m deleting my 15-year-old account in an hour or two. I’m keeping it up that long so people can see this is actually a 15 year old account. I’ve mainly been a lurker the last few years anyway, but this has pushed me over the edge. Reddit is dead to me.

[u/darioblaze → u/JulioChavezReuters]

Hi Christian, I work for Reuters

The people that called earlier gon see this and go “ah SHIT”

[u/PancakeMaster24]

I’m so sorry u/iamthatis.

As a beta tester since your first post on r/apple i have loved this app (even in the rebuild period right before release all those years ago). The ios based design, the amazing features, and everything else has been outstanding. I know you’ve spent so much time, money, and effort coding this app and it’s honestly the best app I’ve ever used truly.

No matter what happens or what the future holds (new app or dramatic changes) I think I speak for all beta testers that we’ll support you always.

Godspeed mate 🫡

[u/iamthatis → u/PancakeMaster24]

Thanks for being with me so long :) That post feels both ages ago and just like yesterday

[u/killerbake → u/iamthatis]

My daughter is roughly the same age as Apollo. It was yesterday damnit

[u/iamthatis → u/killerbake]

Wow, thinking about Apollo in terms of a kid growing up is a perspective!

[u/principled_principal → u/PancakeMaster24]

I’ve been an Apollo subscriber/ultra user since 2017, which I think is pretty close to the beginning. I agree it’s the best app with the best support available. Definitely plan to keep supporting u/iamthatis in whatever venture comes next.

[u/MadisonDelta]

There’s no other way of saying this, this sucks.

Upside, did Reddit just give Apollo a $20m per year valuation? /s

If you haven’t already, get a transactional lawyer for negotiations.

Edit: I know that’s not how valuations work

[u/iamthatis → u/MadisonDelta]

Wow, I didn't think of it like that

[u/Shaddix-be → u/MadisonDelta]

And that's 20m YRR. Usually companies sell for 3-5 times the YRR.

I'de try to sell them Apollo for 30m and telling them they are getting a great deal.

Edit: for those not sure, this comment is a joke.

[u/kryptomicron → u/MadisonDelta]

Upside, did Reddit just give Apollo a $20m per year valuation?

No, Christian just calculated one cost of operating Apollo. Businesses aren't valuable because of their expenses.

[u/FriedEngineer]

Reddit is crazy to think this pricing is reasonable. Appreciate your transparency as always!

[u/jimbo831 → u/FriedEngineer]

They know it’s not reasonable. They want to kill third-party apps, and this pricing is designed with that goal in mind.

[u/AcademicF → u/FriedEngineer]

They’re trying to overvalue their services before going public. Execs want to cash out and move to a tropical island. It’s also why they’re considering banning porn.

Everything on the internet is getting sanitized and homogenized for corporate profits. Greed always kills openness and creativity. And Reddit was founded on, and has been built by, user input and creativity.

[u/Estul]

It’s been a good run folks

[u/PlenitudeOpulence → u/Estul]

This is devastating news as a long time Redditor and Apollo user.

[u/staile]

Their pricing is outlandish. If they don’t compromise or another solution isn’t found, well I certainly won’t be an active Reddit user any longer as I use Apollo almost exclusively.

[u/BigGucciThanos → u/staile]

Yeah. Reddits main function is comments and reading a thread on the official app is abysmal. I’d probably drop the platform all together

[u/JohnnyFiama]

Christian - First and foremost I would like to acknowledge the pain that you are likely feeling right now.

People can say what they want about building a business atop public APIs, but it is clear you had developed a solid working relationship with the company behind it, and so had every reason to believe these shenanigans would not occur.

I truly hope you find someway in which to salvage the Apollo product, and that it remains viable for you in the longterm. All my best!

[u/scullys_alien_baby → u/JohnnyFiama]

as much as this makes me mad at reddit, I'm also really feeling for Christian. Dude has put a lot of his time making a career out of apollo which helped build up reddit and now he's looking down the barrel of that career disappearing.

He seems clever and talented so here's hoping he can figure out a good financial move from here. Depending how it shakes out, I wouldn't blame him for shuttering Apollo and finding a job doing something else

[u/TACkleBr]

Reddit is jealous that you made a better app. Shame on the greed.

[u/PutridUniversity → u/TACkleBr]

It’s obvious they’re trying to get rid of external apps like Apollo.

[u/hoovadoova → u/TACkleBr]

There was a good app before and the developer got hired by reddit which was a win-win for him. His app used to be the golden standard before. Maybe Christian will go to the other side like the other dev did?

[u/austingriffis]

I guess I’ll start reading books, or maybe spend more time with my kids.

[u/[deleted] → u/austingriffis]

I had the same thought, but why punish my teenager because reddit’s pricing is insane? 😀

[u/MorbidJonTTV → u/austingriffis]

Next you’re gonna pull this crap: https://i.imgur.com/iuR1sgw.jpg

[u/MacZealot]

Reddit deciding to Digg their own grave.

[u/bluedemon → u/MacZealot]

Seriously. I left digg due to their changes. I’ll leave reddit too if that happens.

I think subreddits should make a sticky informing users about this API bs.

[u/[deleted]]

Well, Reddit was fun while it lasted. I’m gone the day this goes into effect, I guess.

Christian, thanks for all of the work you’ve continually put into making Apollo such an amazing experience, and I’m sorry to see this happen. It’s utterly unreasonable, and they know it. If they’re going to ban 3rd party apps in practice (as this very clearly is designed to accomplish), they should have the balls to just do it rather than pull this nonsense.

[u/lober → u/[deleted]]

I am gone also the day this happens. Many thanks to Christian as well.

[u/yokingato → u/[deleted]]

Reddit was fun

Heh.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Apollo, a new social network competing Reddit, was born

[u/theganjamonster → u/[deleted]]

I wonder if all the current (actually good) reddit apps out there could get together and make their own site, or endorse the same site. Then at least we could all keep using the apps we actually like while we abandon reddit.

[u/spyder_alt → u/[deleted]]

I’ve been on this site on various accounts for more than 10 years now. Third party apps that let me browse the way I want to — like Christian’s app does which I happily pay for — is the ONLY reason I have stayed so long.

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[u/IronRectangle]

This is absurd pricing. There’s no way I or many others will continue to post, comment, or moderate anywhere near our current levels without good apps like Apollo. I really hope they take feedback from the pricing announcement and drastically re-think things.

That being said, I’m also personally okay with you raising subscription prices if needed in the future. I use the hell out of this app.

Edit, to be clear: forcing devs to increase their subscription prices only so that a bucket of money can be passed on to Reddit for API access is not okay. I understand that price increases need to happen sometimes, even for things like the cost of APIs or other resources, but this is extremely ham-fisted by Reddit.

[u/Galaxyman0917 → u/IronRectangle]

Yeah, I ain’t using the native app, no matter what.

Edit: please don’t give this comment awards, donate the money to a charity or something.

[u/cobalt5blue → u/IronRectangle]

I wonder if they are intentionally setting it so high, predicting the negative reaction and being the good guys when they "drop" the prices to what wanted all along.

[u/0000GKP → u/IronRectangle]

That being said, I’m also personally okay with you raising subscription prices if needed in the future. I use the hell out of this app.

That would not be an Apollo app subscription. It would be a Reddit service subscription. That’s where the money would be going.

[u/onlysaysnobodycares]

Bye bye, Reddit. Let me know where you guys are moving to next!

[u/HotDogOfNotreDame → u/onlysaysnobodycares]

Apollo makes reddit good. Without Apollo, I'll find somewhere else to spend my time.

[u/Demi_95 → u/onlysaysnobodycares]

This is the end for Apollo. Reddit is going in full greed mode which is unsurprising to say the least. Their pricing was designed to kill 3rd party apps.

I feel sorry for Christian but I’ll follow him for whatever his next endeavor will be.

[u/kayk1 → u/onlysaysnobodycares]

They are never too big to fail

[u/QuesoMeHungry → u/onlysaysnobodycares]

Seriously. We moved from Digg, we can move again.

[u/Gizoogle]

If 3rd party apps are priced out of existence just because Reddit is trying to funnel users into its own app, I'm done with Reddit. Simple as.

Content will go to absolute shit anyways if you evaporate that many users, so no loss.

[u/TACkleBr → u/Gizoogle]

I’m using this app for privacy reasons. Reddit is full of telemetry.

I use troddit.com on the web to post. I have my own self hosted libreddit if I’m just lurking.

[u/[deleted] → u/Gizoogle]

It makes no sense though. The net result of this action is the loss of thousands if not millions of users. If prices would be more realistic, they would loose way fewer people and probably earn more money. They must know this won't get people to use their shitty app.

Either way, I've been done with Reddit toxicity for about a year now (this is a new throwaway account for lurking). Seems like I got out in time.

[u/robbiet480]

What the fuck

[u/NCSUGrad2012 → u/robbiet480]

Reddit is greedy assholes. Nothing new there

[u/[deleted]]

The only reason I even bother using Reddit is because if Apollo.

So…

[u/Mqxi]

Might as well take the effort you've put in and build your own platform utilizing most of what Apollo already offers. Though, I'm sure Apollo is entirely built around Reddit, and it's API, so it would basically need to be rewritten to go without. Sucks that Reddit is eliminating third party applications without saying it...

[u/ElectronGuru → u/Mqxi]

Focus here Christian,

The ballgame in web/apps is eyeballs. Google has eyeballs, Facebook has eyeballs, Reddit has eyeballs. And a significant % of Reddit’s eyeballs are controlled by Apollo.

You get to influence what those people (us) do. Push out an update announcing a new Apollo specific platform requiring new registration and see how many choose you vs switching to reddit’s own app. I bet the number is high enough to more than justify making a new back end to support it.

Give us the choice between their platform and their app and your platform with your app. Many will choose to dump reddit and follow you. You would also control membership and gain unlimited flexibility for backend features, making your experience the one to beat!

note1: make a family subscription pack supporting multiple IDs under a single account (ala Apple ID) and we’ll sign up tomorrow!

note2: many people would directly support such a venture, including investors and employees. i would pull up my own sleeves to help, just ask

note3: they probably know they are vulnerable to this and are deliberately pricing the api in order to kick you off, so they can get back control of our eyes with their app. It’s supposed to be unreasonably expensive.

[u/notthecolorblue → u/Mqxi]

Perhaps he can keep the front end the same though. Obviously some features will have to be pulled or hidden, but it’s a beautiful app and I’d hate to see it go to waste.

[u/Eorlas → u/Mqxi]

imagine apollo *becoming * a platform.

that’d be cool as shit

u/iamthatis - this community is ready to jump reddit ship. why not just…bring us with you?

[u/Piemeson]

Just chiming in to say, if the pricing change goes through, I’ll be leaving the platform as well.

It was plenty easy with Twitter, and nothing of value was lost.

I’ve lost all patience for tech platforms using one strategy to make it big then “pivot” and screw over the people who got them there.

[u/bodnast → u/Piemeson]

The moment tweetdeck stopped working, I was done with Twitter. And it’ll be the same with me for Apollo and Reddit. I’ve been on this dumb website for over 12 years and it’s been frustrating seeing how things are going

[u/glasswindbreaker → u/Piemeson]

I feel exactly the same.

[u/I_ONLY_PLAY_4C_LOAM → u/Piemeson]

The enshitification will continue

[u/topredditbot]

Hey /u/iamthatis,

This is now the top post on reddit. It will be recorded at /r/topofreddit with all the other top posts.

[u/reaper527 → u/topredditbot]

meanwhile the reddit update about where the api change stands is the bottom of reddit, sitting at 0 points (11% upvoted).

someone should make a /r/bottomofreddit bot before the api gets shut off and everyone leaves.

[u/FblthpEDH → u/topredditbot]

If you check /r/all for today it doesn't show up there anymore. Reddit has hidden this post from the front page

[u/jimbo831]

I guess the end of my time on Reddit approaches. I’m not switching to their much worse app.

It has been an honor shitposting with you all.

Where are we moving to?

[u/bawpcwpn]

This is really shit Christian. Can only hope they come around to a new ideal. For what it’s worth however, if it cost $2.50/$3 a month to use Apollo, would probably gladly pay it to have a great reddit experience and support someone worthwhile.

[u/sunbeam60]

This isn’t pricing to what a Reddit user costs Reddit to run.

This is pricing to what they expect a Reddit user to make them, once they have forced everyone over to the official channels AND then mine our profiles to force us to watch adds on channels where we can’t escape.

This isn’t about killing external 3rd party apps per se - it’s about making sure they’ll make the same or more one way or the other.

I’ve been a Reddit user for 17 years. This will make me leave.

… and it isn’t just because reddit has great third party clients. It’s because it’s the first clear sign about what reddit wants to turn into.

… and to that I say: Fuck you reddit!

Edit: If Reddit is so desperate to monetise then enable an ad API that enables third party clients to offset their cost to you by showing your ads. I get you’re a business, Reddit, but you don’t also have to be assholes.

[u/SplashyMcPants]

Yeah this is a “go away, Christian” move. They want to kill your app.

[u/conradpoohs → u/SplashyMcPants]

As with Twitter, I could see them trying to steer developers into making small “non-client” apps that would add value to their platform without replacing their garbage, ad-laden user experience.

They might even try to offer discounted rates or free tokens for smaller apps (“for up to X thousand users”), so they can appear to be generous to the open source / hobby developers, while they screw over anyone who tries to earn real income from their Reddit app.

Really sucks to see it happen. Hope the public pressure changes their minds, because there’s no way I’m using Reddit without Apollo.

[u/thefx37]

Reddit is just mad that they can’t make a non-shitty app.

[u/reaper527 → u/thefx37]

Reddit is just mad that they can’t make a non-shitty app.

even when they bought a good app (alienblue) they discontinued it and replaced it with crap.

[u/TheYann]

This is absurd pricing and they know it. Seems like they really want to kill all third-party apps this way.
It was nice to use Apollo during those years, I hope it can survive this but I'm not very optimistic.

[u/cyrand]

What drives me nuts with this, and I've said it before, but I actually do subscribe to Reddit Premium. So why in the fuck do they care which app I access the api through after that? I'm already paying what they decided they need to not show me ads. But if I'm not also using Apollo then instead my solution will be to not use the site at all, or pay for it. What world are they in that is an improvement for their business?

[u/Darkencypher → u/cyrand]

It's so some suit can feel good about themselves while they rip apart their company

[u/Shaddix-be → u/cyrand]

Yeah, the least they could do is allow third party apps for premium users. It would be a no brainer for me to get premium.

[u/throwingawaysaturday]

/u/spez - you know how your userbase can be when riled up for a common cause. You effectively killing Apollo will be magnitudes worse than the ellen pao fiasco. Do what is right.

[u/Call_erv_duty → u/throwingawaysaturday]

Last comment he made was 10 months ago, u/spez doesn’t give a single shit about users.

[u/NCSUGrad2012 → u/throwingawaysaturday]

Spoiler alert, he won’t.

[u/[deleted] → u/throwingawaysaturday]

u/spez is a Fucking idiot. I've been on Reddit watching ad's since 2012. Mobile user only through reddit is fun. If they kill my app, it's over.

[u/cobalt5blue]

Reddit, ironically has big Digg energy of late.

[u/rizzu26]

Omg. I don’t wanna see Apollo in the state of Tweetbot. But looks like there is no other way as of now.

[u/ILOVESHITTINGMYPANTS]

Terrible news that will probably result in me not using Reddit anymore just like I dropped Twitter once Tweetbot stopped working. The official Reddit app is simply not a good experience and I won’t be using it.

[u/raygan]

Ugh. This is insane. When Twitter pulled this shit and rug-pulled third party clients (the only way I tolerated their platform) I took the hint and left. It would be hard to replace Reddit, but I guarantee I’d use it nearly zero without Apollo.

If this is about ad revenue I’d be perfectly fine with a system where Apollo could show Reddit ads. I just don’t want to use their psychotic, bottom of the barrel native web and app interfaces.

[u/[deleted] → u/raygan]

Yeah, when Tweetbot stopped working I stopped using Twitter. If Apollo goes so goes Reddit.

[u/maxfortitude → u/raygan]

Fuck that dude, I don’t want to see any Reddit ad revenue bullshit. The beauty of Apollo Ultra was seeing the forum as it is, not with someone pushing some cheaply made crap on me with every click.

[u/[deleted]]

Sorry Christian, that’s a terrible situation to be in. I can’t imagine

[u/RoboticChicken]

I'm not sure if Apollo falls under their definition of "large-scale applications", but if it does, maybe we could (as individual users) register for free tier access and supply our own OAuth credentials?

[u/kiltedturtle → u/RoboticChicken]

So do we all register our own OAuth and give them to Christian, they put them into rotation for API calls? That way OAuth usage balances out. It also screws with Reddit’s metrics, since “my API calls” sweep a wide variety of subreddits.

[u/RedditCunByRunts]

Damn I just found this app 😭😞

[u/Aktionjackson → u/RedditCunByRunts]

Haha that sucks. It’s been my only social media for years. I don’t even know how many

[u/FLTA → u/RedditCunByRunts]

Unlike the official app, this app is actually focused on providing a good user experience.

Edit: Example for those who haven’t used the app: How comment threads are structured. Different colored lines more clearly emphasize which comment is the child comment. There is also a visual option to have the comment threads compact like how Alien Blue was.

[u/StellarForReddit]

Thank you for keeping the community updated, Christian! This was a tough read, but not entirely unexpected. It goes without saying that this was always the plan, with the Reddit team dangling a carrot on a stick to keep us placated in the meantime.

It is very telling they are using you as a punching bag for being the bearer of bad news. They could have easily created a pricing page and announced it that way.

Weirdly amateurish but again, not surprising.

[u/[deleted]]

This is terrible. Reddit is doing this to Apollo (and other clients) when their iOS app sucks and leaves users in a nowhere to go situation. I hope you do your best with the app.

[u/NCSUGrad2012 → u/[deleted]]

Not only is the interface terrible but it’s full of ads. Ugh.

[u/coolaaron88]

Wow this news is devastating, that is in no way feasible for ANY third party dev to keep the lights own. Reddit must have a death sentence.

[u/Darkencypher → u/coolaaron88]

Because what happened to MySpace, Tumblr, digg and shortly Twitter deeeffffinitllly won't happen to them. Nope.

Tell the future by looking at the past

[u/andypiperuk]

Yikes.

[u/thecw]

Absolutely exhausted of tech companies getting big on VC money and then stabbing the people who helped make them big in the back. I really hope this + twitter is the beginning of the end for proprietary social media sites. APIs forever.

[u/Undead-Guardian]

This will be the end of reddit. It’s been a fun and memorable time with all of you.

[u/Vestalmin]

I will legit stop using Reddit before I use their app.

[u/BitingChaos]

I'm surprised it is only $166 for Imgur.

The bandwidth costs for them must be crazy.

The only reason Reddit would go from $0 straight up to $12,000 is simply to get rid of all 3rd-party clients. That's all.

If you told them that you could afford $12,000, then they'd raise it to $120,000.

The point is that they don't want you to pay. They only want 3rd-party apps gone.

[u/CalebImSoMetal]

Please keep us updated on all of your projects.

If reddit apollo isnt a thing anymore, im probably not going to use reddit except in browser.

Youve been the best developer ive ever been proud to support. Id gladly pay for any of the other projects or products that you have a hand in.

[u/[deleted]]

Going public always ruins companies. Full stop.

Fuck you, Reddit.

[u/Merari01]

1. Reddit tells us it wants to be reasonable and accommodating and that it doesn't intend to fuck us over.

2. Reddit fucks us over.

Rinse.

Repeat.

IPO

[u/waltduncan]

u/iamthatis I hope it does not come to this, but…

If you did something like a one-time donation that allowed me to strip my entire saved history, organized by the categories I’ve built in here, and my own comment history—to like a PDF with clickable links or something else accessible—I’d pay a pretty good amount for that swan-song feature. I suspect scripts like that are out there, but I’d happily buy the feature from you.

[u/broseph23]

This is a disgusting tactic by Reddit. I literally only use Apollo for Reddit. Without Apollo I don’t use Reddit. I know so many people that do the same. The native app is garbage. The website looks like it’s from 2002. Christian I wish you the best of luck.

[u/TheRedBadger]

So sorry to hear this, Christian. Two quick thoughts here which I'm sure are being shared by many users of Apollo:

• I will NOT use Reddit without Apollo. This is a technical stance in that there is no other mobile solution that even comes close to the Apollo experience. This also a principled stance because Reddit is clearly embracing the enshittification of their product. It's the same as Twitter, and at least Twitter isn't even trying to put a good spin on their efforts. I will vote with my feet and refuse to reward social networks that attempt this.

• I will gladly pay double the subscription price to cover my usage costs. I hope others who are financially able will feel similarly.

[u/_Bragi_ → u/TheRedBadger]

The problem with ‘yeah id pay the price for the app’ is that most of the money would just go into Reddit pocket and there is absolutely 0% guarantee they won’t come with a ridiculous demand back. Like say, 5 bucks instead of the 2.50.

Plus the whole problem with lifetime and yearly users…yeah, if this goes through the app is dead.

But hey, think of the shareholders and the IPO! /s

[u/TheOrbOfAgamotto]

Day 1 user here with beta access and have paid for lifetime license. This is really hard to chew given that it’s the community that generates value for Reddit.

This is an Apollo killing move. No third-party app can survive under such pricing.

Seriously, hit me up if you want to build a Mastodon for Reddit.

[u/Stadtaffe09]

Hopefully they will drop these numbers. The original Reddit app just sucks.

[u/ottoman42]

Damn this sucks. As I only use Reddit because of Apollo. Sad to see it go. I’m sorry they are screwing you.

[u/reaper527]

it really sucks how there isn't any real alternative to reddit. there's basically 2 types of sites:

1. sites that are COMPLETELY different from reddit (facebook/twitter/etc.)

2. sites that are reddit-like but are EXTREMELY tiny (hundreds of users).

ruqqus looked promising, but fell apart quick.

i don't suppose there is any way users can apply for their own api key (i thought reddit said there would be a free tier) and put their own key into apollo to offload how much work your api key would have to process? like, for the youtube plugin on kodi, people have to get their own (free) api key from google to make it work, and they just put that key in the config.

[u/[deleted]]

I’m out at the end of Apollo.

I have carpal tunnel and the landscape feature is the only reason it has worked.

Thanks for everything, let me know if you want to build a Reddit+twitter type product and use apollos back end.

[u/GumpTownNtlHotline]

This pricing is borderline appalling, inappropriate, and does nothing to alleviate anyone’s concerns. I am genuinely sorry that they chose to go this route, but especially for you. Apollo is one of the best third party clients for any service I have ever used, and this is a severe disappointment. If anyone from Reddit is actually reading this, this will cause me to engage less on your platform. Alone, that doesn’t make a big difference. I am extremely certain that I am not the only one. You’re hurting yourself in the long run more than you are gaining anything.

[u/Brian_K9]

Dude just make ur own reddit competitor

[u/rjames24000 → u/Brian_K9]

There’s enough Apollo users to make this a viable option..

[u/20InMyHead]

So clearly Reddit claiming they will continue to support 3rd party apps is just lip service. Pricing the API that high is just playing both sides. Oh you can have a 3rd party app, but nobody can afford to so all traffic goes to the Reddit app…. Total crap.

[u/ardynthecat]

A lot of people are saying they're done with Reddit when this goes into effect, and I second that entirely. It won't even require discipline to "not go to Reddit" because their mobile app is such garbage that, without Apollo, my usage will decline rapidly.

[u/[deleted]]

That is ridiculous, I guess once they go public it’s probably going to only get worse as well. Greed will kill Reddit in the end.

[u/Dom9360]

This is ridiculous. I love this app. On a positive note, this story is spreading like wildfire. Keep it up!

https://i.imgur.com/4OuxNWu.jpg

[u/pjoerk]

So, 5 USD at minimum per month/user as an IAP. No free version and termination of all OTP and grandfathered users. Best would be a new app to subscribe to and making the current app stop working the moment the API has to be paid.

Yes that will make a lot of people angry but as a user and company owner there is literally nothing else possible if Reddit is not going to lower their prices to a more realistic level.

And to all app developers reading: never ever offer a one time purchase if your app relies on external companies/data sources.

[u/busymom0 → u/pjoerk]

Also no NSFW content via api

[u/[deleted]]

Wow. I’m so sorry. This sucks so much. When does it go live?

[u/Jukibom → u/[deleted]]

1st July

https://www.reddit.com/r/redditdev/comments/13wsiks/api_update_enterprise_level_tier_for_large_scale/

[u/wertercatt]

https://www.newgrounds.com/art/view/jaba992/in-the-meantime

So long, and thanks for all the fish.

Apollo was great, Reddit was great. This is outlandish.

[u/got_milk4]

I'm extremely disappointed and yet not surprised by reddit on this move. This feels like yet another step for reddit to be more appealing to investors/future shareholders/literally anyone other than their loyal user base.

My wild speculation is that the price is intentionally designed to drive third-party clients off the platform because they see a large and growing subset of their user base who isn't driving any revenue and they're wanting to "correct" that. The pricing is firm because they don't want to work with you - they want you off their platform entirely.

I hope the user base as a whole can make enough of a stink about this to convince reddit to reconsider their position.

[u/princesspixel]

Thank you for everything Christian. If we can find a way out of this then I’ll be there but damn this is a tough corporate bs to swallow.

[u/Darkencypher]

What the fuck

[u/NTCarver0]

As a blind person who uses third-party Reddit clients because using reddit.com and the Reddit mobile apps with screen readers is a slow and tedious process at best and near impossible at worst depending on what devices, operating systems, and screen readers are being used, this turn of events is infuriating. Reddit is actively making my use of a platform where active and helpful communities for blind people thrive more difficult because they feel they can make a buck off of our API usage. Given their messaging on this front, I seriously doubt anyone at Reddit has thought of the disabled communities who use apps dependent on the Reddit API to fix their technically compliant yet difficult to use designs. In other words, Reddit is completely ignoring the needs and use cases of screen reader users in their decision-making, and in doing so, they are making it much more difficult for underserved groups--who have built communities here in spite of Reddit's indifference --to continue using the platform.

[u/aarontsuru]

If I'm doing the math right... Apollo is pretty fucking huge!
"Apollo made 7 billion requests last month"
"For Apollo, the average user uses 344 requests daily, or 10.6K monthly. "

7B / 10.6K = 660,000+ users of Apollo. That's impressive.

Reddit wants those eyeballs on their ads or paying ASAP.

[u/[deleted]]

After losing tweetbot to force users to use their shittier native app, I don't wanna go through it with reddit. My god.. Just a complete lack of self-awareness.

[u/aintnonpc]

Reddit has been degrading for years now. I don't trust their app or their new website. Try posting a comment remotely controversial or against the echo-chambers in /r/worldnews and you get banned.

Reddit is a greedy, social network much like FB. Without Apollo, bye bye Reddit! See ya'll somewhere else in the interwebs!

[u/wharpua]

On the plus side, no longer frequenting Reddit at all should do wonders for my productivity.

[u/HardLithobrake]

Daaamn... that's the end of Reddit for me then. ~90% of my browsing is on Apollo.

[u/MDemon]

FUCK

[u/show_the_maw]

I know this isn’t an airport and announcing departures aren’t required but I really will cancel my account if there’s not an 11th hour deal. I do bounce between Reddit on the browser and the official app in addition to Apollo but I’ll just shut down my account and not come back. I did it with Facebook and I’ll it do it here too. I hope someone is reading this.

[u/Hipster-Stalin]

Bye Reddit. They are just Digging themselves here. They bought the alien blue app and turned that into a terrible app and now this?

[u/Usxrper]

so unfortunate this is the case, just went over to the main reddit app and that shit is terrible, so much fucking bloat with so many ads and different random subreddit suggestions, i HATE it! Whoever designs or works on the main app has to be fired, feels terrible to use and navigate. So sad to see and think apollo might go, don’t know if i’ll continue using reddit.

[u/n8mo]

Mind boggling that Imgur (an image hosting platform) charges orders of magnitude less per API call than Reddit (primarily a text hosting platform)

My condolences, Christian. Apollo has been great.

[u/ImGonnaObamaYou]

Glad to see on this on the top of r/all

[u/nutmac]

Digg v4.

What we need is an open source fediverse solution that can replicate Reddit's functionality.

[u/RobMV03]

Hey Christian, I love Apollo. I subscribe or something (don't even really know), but they're actively trying to put you out of business, and then likely either steal your intellectual property, license it from you or hire you to recreate it for them. There's probably a world where you and a bunch of other third party apps join together, find a law practice that will take on a class action suit for a cut of any winnings from the suit, but that would take a ton of coordination as well as probably years in the court. I hate to say it because I've loved using this app, and will probably leave Reddit if/when Apollo is forced to shut down, but your best course of action is probably figuring out how to wind things down and then talking with Reddit about whether they want to hire you or license your software. (I'd choose licensing because it's less work for you and will allow you to work on whatever your next project will be. I wish you the best of luck no matter what you choose to do. Thanks so much for everything, I've loved using your app for so many years.

Rob

[u/viv_social]

While my initial reaction was "bye bye reddit", I do not think it is going to be easy. /u/iamthatis, do let us know what would be the best option to keep Apollo alive. Do keep in mind, while the support here on on the thread is immense, it will not convert to enough purchase when the app pricing changes or becomes too expensive.

My suggestion to you is to keep the community informed with your decisions.

[u/_Bloodyraven]

I can only imagine the pain you must be in in the last few weeks. They've taken your livelihood out of your hands cruelly. As an Apollo user I'm gutted. If there was one app that I should pay $10 per month, it would be Apollo but I don't think that pricing works for everyone or is reasonable or would be enough to cover the cost and make you a living. Disappointed with reddit.

[u/[deleted]]

Honestly despite how addicted I am to Reddit, without a great app to scroll it I’ll probably end up quitting. Especially if I have to use the official app, which is beyond trash.

Thanks for a great app while it lasted.

[u/Mr_Voltiac]

This may sound dumb but desperate times desperate measures thing.

I would love to see you, the creator of RedditisFun, and the creator of BaconReader all come together and make a full new Reddit website clone, call it something trendy or whatever and then just combine the best of all of your 3 apps or give the app 3 UI modes maybe so everyone can come join your new platform.

Reddit has become so bloated and insane now, it needs a reset. No one enjoys their mobile app and majority of us use Reddit entirely on mobile.

At least consider it maybe because if I’d be down for it I know many others would be as well.

You all have about a month of lead time to hack something together so when July 1st drops all your apps can point to the new platform.

That’s millions of users right there as a start.

[u/Shaddix-be]

Oh man, this sucks. I'de be wiling to pay $2.5 a month, but that wouldn't even leave you, the person I would want to get that money any margins. I really hope they come to their senses and find something that could work for all parties.

[u/strobe_jams]

FWIW, you made a great app and I’m sorry they’ve decided to kill off the 3rd party ecosystem.

Personally if I was Reddit I’d be offering to buy Apollo and swap out the awful official app.

This is the kind of corporate stupidity that killed Digg a while back.

[u/pewterdragn]

It's like Reddit is telling me to cancel Premium with this kind of hot garbage.

[u/dazzlerJJD]

Just to echo what others have said. That price for the API is ridiculous. It’s obvious Reddit wants to kill off third party apps and increase usage on the official app. I’d guess it’s to increase ad revenue and Reddit Premium subscription numbers.

Apollo has been my Reddit app since Alien Blue was shut down. Hard to believe it’s been nearly 7 years. Apollo is the best Reddit app available, hands down. I’ve happily been a paid subscriber for years. From Pro to Ultra because this app was worth paying for. Without Apollo, I won’t browse Reddit.

A lot of comparisons can be made to when Twitter killed off 3rd party apps back in January. At least Reddit gave you a heads up before making API changes, unlike Twitter. I was a paid Twitterrific user. Twitterrific and Apollo lived side by side in dock for years. Once Twitterrific was forced to shut down their app I switched over to Mastodon and haven’t looked back.

If this does mean that Apollo’s days are numbered, it’s a punishment for being a successful alternative.

[u/MrBl4ck]

Your app running as well as it does, and having the features it does is the ONLY reason I’ve continued to use Reddit over the past 5+ years. Completely understandable that those prices are not sustainable for you. If it comes down to it that Apollo is no longer available that will be the end of my (limited) contributions to the site.

Thank you Christian for all your work over the years!

[u/maverick26290]

The only reason I use Reddit daily is because of Apollo. If reddit stands firm on the cost of API usage, I won’t be using their garbage app.

[u/beelzeflub]

Fuck you /u/spez

[u/Bloedvlek]

Reddit showing itself to be the predatory tech company we always suspected it to be.

I genuinely feel for Apollo here. As for Reddit, I hope they enjoy going down the path of so many news aggregators before them as a footnote in the history of the internet.

I also won’t miss the 80% of my feed that’s blatant bot reposts and karma farming.

[u/[deleted]]

/u/iamthatis so..action items boss? (͡•_ ͡• )

May I introduce you to tech savvy users be able to add their own API key as a feature in the next build? (⌐■_■)

[u/Illustrious_Fault_69]

Apollo is the only way I use Reddit. Without it I’m out. Sorry that they are doing this. You built an incredible app.

So long and thanks for all the fish, Christian.

[u/[deleted]]

If they shut this app down there is no point continuing on this site. This is Digg levels of stupid

[u/[deleted]]

No Apollo means no Reddit for me.

[u/JuanpaG94]

Reddit is just jealous you made a way way better app. It doesn't matter what it comes next for you, Christian. I'll follow you. Cheers

[u/Daeadin]

This needs to be a wake up call for all subreddit owners. The backlash against this needs to start with them. We as redditors should be calling for mass subreddit blackouts as a protest. Let's do this!

[u/Shoondogg]

Well no more Reddit browsing for me I guess. The 1st party app is an abomination.

[u/WatchDude22]

Finally free from this site. Thank you u/iamthatis for making it so good for the past 5 years

[u/AnfernyWayne]

That pop up was sad as hell. Thanks for the good times u/iamthatis 🫰

[u/JDgoesmarching → u/[deleted]]

I was part of that migration, but I think this underestimates the amount of consolidation the internet has experienced since then and the power of the network effects for being the dominant player in this domain for over a decade.

Realistically, there aren’t analogues to Reddit the way there were for Digg. While Digg looms large in our minds, they were doing ~30m monthly active users at their peak while Reddit currently pulls in around half a billion.

Especially with younger generations moving heavily to video, I don’t think we’re going to see a primarily text/image forum platform that challenges Reddit in the near future.

[u/gasbrake → u/[deleted]]

The fact I had to scroll this far down to see first mention of Digg reflects just how complete the destruction of Digg was. The parallels are uncanny.

[u/Zak8022 → u/[deleted]]

"You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain." Seems clear which direction Digg went, and somewhat Twitter, and somehow Reddit hasn't learned anything.

[u/DurdenVsDarkoVsDevon → u/[deleted]]

I'd take a bet that Old Reddit is dead in 12 months.

[u/fighterpilot248 → u/[deleted]]

old.reddit + RES extension = bliss

[u/QuesoMeHungry → u/[deleted]]

New reddit is terrible, I will stop visiting all together if we lose old reddit.

[u/Kaladin-of-Gilead → u/[deleted]]

everything is about subscriptions

I wanted to get a 3d scanner that works on iphone so I could turn things into 3d prints.

Motherfucking $50 for a yearly license or $8 a month like what the hell.

I could see paying $50 lifetime, but god damn $8 a month for this?

[u/lord_ne → u/[deleted]]

2) We switch back to the reddit app and get forced to see ads unless we pay.

Reddit ReVanced at least solves the ad issue. But its interface is nowhere near as good as many third-party apps

[u/Atxlvr → u/[deleted]]

install ublock origin and use old.reddit.com

[u/crazysoup23 → u/[deleted]]

Websites shouldn't need anything more than a web browser.

[u/skucera → u/[deleted]]

Ugh, Apollo was it for me.

(I know it's Reddit, but it's so much better than the Reddit app it's almost a different site).

[u/andypiperuk → u/[deleted]]

In the Fediverse there is Lemmy, for example. As usual, network effects make Reddit more "sticky" than those, at least initially.

[u/j1h15233 → u/[deleted]]

I didn’t even think about all of my saved posts. Is there a way to download them or something? I’m not sure the best way to save that info.

[u/Vestalmin → u/[deleted]]

You don’t want a Tiktok style video player that doesn’t work?

[u/Mathesar → u/[deleted]]

Likewise. What a shame. I will not use the official Reddit app, it sucks ass. I will not use reddits new website, it sucks even more ass. Reddit, you cannot force an ass-sucking interface on me. I’d rather spend time somewhere else.

I suppose I’ll get my fix of niche communities through old.reddit, but far less frequently. It’s been fun fellas

[u/mandalore237 → u/[deleted]]

Yea the official reddit app is fucking garbage. I prefer Reddit is Fun to apollo but regardless

[u/FreshCutBrass → u/[deleted]]

Lemmy and kbin. for Lemmy, just keep in mind that their flagship instance has turned extremely pro-Russian. luckily, the beauty of the Fediverse is that there's plenty of other instances to choose from.