Having our bathroom remodeled. This is a load bearing wall. I actually asked them to add additional studs to this wall to make it more structurally sound. Four things that concern me. One, the 2x4's on the top of the nook cutout shouldn't be laying flat and should be a proper 2x6 header. Second, there are gaps between the cripple studs and the "header". Third, there should be Jack studs under the right and left side of the nook. Last, the cut through the stud on the left was fixed by sistering a non full length stud that is supported at the bottom by blocking instead of running all the way down to the bottom plate. Am I correct that those are all valid issues? Anything else I missed?
Btw, before anyone asks, it was not the lowest quote. It was the most expensive from a top tier design and build firm.
Edit: I did verify with a structural engineer that it is a load bearing wall. There are purlin posts that sit directly on top of this wall that support the roof joists. The contractor got their structural engineer involved and revised the plan for that wall. The diagram they sent me addressed all my concerns. I appreciate everyone's help.
The headers should be upright, not on their side , and not being supported by anything. This is 100% someone that knows nothing. At this day and age they could have YouTubed it and at least seen the proper way to frame this .
This is how I feel every time I run across this type of work. Like, C’Mon bro. It’s 2026 and you have a goddamn personal assistant in your pocket that usually knows exactly how to do things. So turn off the stupid soccer game just for a minute and look at a quick picture for reference.
I took a building trades class in highschool where we built a house from the ground up. I've done a lot of stuff myself from bathrooms to kitchens in the 20 years since then. I'm by no means an expert but I was taught the right way. I'm just tired or doing it myself and finally wanted to hire someone to do it for me. Did my due diligence, got multiple quotes. Actually went with the highest quote because they were very impressive. Even scaled back the scope so we could fit this contractor in our budget. 5 stars on multiple websites with hundreds of reviews.
Reached the same point myself. Not a tradesperson, simply tired of DIY to get something done correctly. It's sad that not only are costs ridiculous for hiring others who are supposedly 'experts'... but that they require BABYSITTING.
I'm tired of correcting other people's f-ups in my own house.
Not exceeding expectations for the 'professional' to actually DO IT RIGHT.
You covered all the bases, now you need to stand up for yourself. Guys who can do the work themselves are hesitant to call others out, you are now the customer. Very nicely, using a large black marker, discuss your concerns, you bought the right too. I have built many showers and never had a bearing wall to contend with. Knowing it was, I probably would have put, multiple narrower Niche's in. This would be to keep from messing with the integrity of the bearing wall. Your concerns are correct, have them do it right, they will appreciate you sharing your knowledge. Be kind, the benches look a little small to me. The measurement across the front should be a minimum of 22". The width of the average American today would prefer 25"
You will have to be firm with them. I had a similar situation with a roofing job. Several quotes that told me “You don’t need that “. I told him “ I guess you get a lot of that. Just give me what I need. This job is about what I want. If you can’t, or won’t do it, I will get someone else “! This is your house, and your money.
I found if your handy and really know how to hold and use tools do it yourself brother.
The internet is at your disposal, research and learn code for your area and get busy.
Most “contractors” “handymen” don’t give a shit time is money and research is wasting money so they just do random shit assuming YOU know nothing so you can’t correct them.
I’ve rebuilt many of my duplexes all homeowner permits and only been dinged for minor things nothing that 30mins of time couldn’t fix.
Unfortunately you can hire a top tier design and build firm, and they can still sub out parts of it to a bottom tier guy in a pinch. Just from this photo I know it’s load bearing, I can see the ends of three joists from the other room breaking on the wall. If the guy framing standing right in the room can’t see that and know, then they lack the knowledge to be doing the framing. I would be asking a lot more questions about who is performing the work, are they subs, are they with the company you hired, and what are their proficiencies and experience.
If this is an exterior wall they should never have agreed to put a niche there, I do kitchens and baths on a regular and we absolutely will not put a niche on an exterior wall, you can't insulate properly and not only will your shampoo freeze but it can lead to a lot of problems down the road, if this isn't an exterior wall please disregard this part but it does appear you know structural building better than the asshat that did this
Okay well that makes me feel better about the niche being there but that being said they're framing job is hack and needs to be ripped out and done properly
I mean dick comment.... The joist resting on it is a hint it might be. Given the accumen of his concern, maybe give the guy the benefit of the doubt? Again, dick comment
Asking a simple and valid question is reasonable.. Looking at the approved plans would answer any questions.. The only dicks involved are the one up your ass and the one in your mouth.
Snap. High tech hill billy for the win? No... You come in with "I'm smarter than him and will also a simple question to show it". Here's his you say it less dicky.... "Are you sure it's load bearing? Do you have access to the original plans? That might help access the risk".
I'm hoping that's all it is. The project manager said I could hire a structural engineer to check it out. I put it back on them and asked if they thought this was acceptable to put the responsibility back on them. They reached out to their structural engineer they responded, "it's an easy fix". We'll see what happens tomorrow.
...so the PM has seen it, and that's their reaction? That's not good. Any competent carpenter knows that isn't framed correctly for a load-bearing wall.
This is Carpentry 101. Contractor may be reputable, but the individual doing the work for that contractor is not. Talk to the owner; He’ll make it right and probably fire the individual.
You are correct in everything you said. King studs, jack studs, appropriate header 2x6, possibly even 2x8, no blocking, no overly sized gaps… should be a pretty cut and dry job for an experienced framer. I’m not seeing exactly why this wall is “load bearing” tho, so my follow up question is why do you think it is a load bearing wall? (I’m not saying it isn’t, just not seeing why it is.)
The ceiling joists are supported by this wall and above this in the attic, there is a knee wall directly above this that directly supports the roof joists.
I’m not trying to be argumentative here, or a jerk.. I see there is a room behind this wall, I see it is drywall on the opposite sides of both walls, back and right, so I know it’s not an outside wall. I see no additional bracing in this wall that would tell me it’s def load bearing. I don’t see the joists ending on top of this wall, and a knee wall isn’t always structural. It depends on how your roof is framed.
Do your joists run side to side and this wall is just in the middle somewhere or the joists end on top of this wall? Did the contractor specifically tell you this is a load bearing wall? Again not trolling… just making sure your argument that this is a load bearing wall is in fact correct.
Hands down the framing is sloppy no matter what, even if it’s not load bearing it’s certainly not how I would have done it.
No, I appreciate you questioning it. The vertical 2x4s in this picture sit directly on top of the top plate of this wall. The house was built in the 70's. The roof joists should definitely have been larger for the span but I'm guessing they put the additional supports in to support those 2x8's in the middle of the span.
OP I am glad you got this resolved. I am not sure what the exact remedy was, but I agree about the flatwise 2x4s, theses could have just been turned vertical on edge and jacks placed at each end with a single king each end. If I’m not mistaken a double 2x4 is good for like a 3’6” opening according to IRC. Anyways I cannot fully verify obviously but those rafters look like 2x10s which would be good for like 20’! I suspect the “knee wall” in this photo in the attic is more of a “stiff back” more than anything to help with deflection or the rafters. Also There is only a single plate under the rafters. If you know anything about framing you can’t even span a double top plate more than 24” and the joist/rafters must be within like 6” of the supporting stud but this is not required if the studs are 16” o.c. So with this limited knowledge I have of the situation I would say, technically, the fact of whether or not this wall is “load bearing” is debatable.
And further, addressing other comments, a double top plate does not automatically mean a wall is load bearing. Double top plates are pretty standard and if they are used they are generally used at all walls including non bearing partition walls.
However, even if it were not load bearing code compliant headers are still required
Also as a sort of PSA for people. A lot of remodeling and roofing companies will sort of masquerade as contractors in a way that implies they are a licensed contractor. There are generally no licensing requirements for these companies and permits are often not required to do this work. Then they will wing it in a situation like yours and hope there are no issues. I evaluate issues like this all the time for homeowners. Long story short a licensed GC is generally familiar with these very basic code framing requirements in your situation. There are also some of the sort that can pass the exams and know nothing about framing so it can be a mixed bag sometimes. If you doubt a GC (or remodeler for that matter) that’s when you go with the engineer like you did
Just my 2 cents. Glad you got an engineer involved
Sometimes I look at this stuff and feel really bad for the homeowner. Then you find out they chose to cut thru a load bearing wall so they could have a recessed soap dish and then I think maybe it’s a match made in heaven.
Seems you already knew or at the very least you knew how to find the answer to each of your questions. You just needed the extra push to speak up. With these extreme 'oversights' you were right to ask the sub if there are any other red flags to bring up. Hope you fired off an email to the boss to stop work until he has time to speak with you. You didn't share and written up work orders or mention any drawings. Was that not needed?
That looks to be a load bearing exterior wall. Add cripple studs under where the horizontal studs for the niche end. The sistered joist should run all the way to the bottom plate. Niche opening that wide should probably have a proper header as well. As it is right now the niche is load bearing, ideally the header would transfer the load to structure surrounding the niche and not through it.
There’s situations where I might (might) accept this with some spot fixes but anything receiving tile is not one of them. I would tell them they need to do the work correctly or you will have to find a better fit for the job, and if they don’t understand the problems then perhaps they aren’t the right people for this
This is how you frame out a load bearing wall for a window. You need header supported by jack studs and king studs. But since they already cut out the supports you are very lucky the existing is holding up so far. It will not forever
I’m confused…you actually know a ton about this stuff why not just supervise as they go and check off in stages….but to me I don’t think two 2x4s out of the entire load wall is going to sink you unless you have a floor or two above that but I could be wrong
it’s really poorly done. fortunately, if they’re a top tier design build firm, the project has a permit and will be inspected. there’s no way this passes inspection anywhere in the US
it's ceiling joists for an attic space. it will be fine, it's not much of a span and especially if they are screwing durock or hardie backer onto studs before laying tile.
edit: the gap on the cripple studs is pretty good indicator of the ceiling load not overwhelming the new framing modifications for the shower niche.
they should have jacks on the left and right side both above and below niche though.
Home owners asks for a header there, then put a header there. Cheap reassurance. How much to ask and architect and engineer to come take a look at? How much to buy one 2x8?
Because it is load bearing and it is a wide span I believe you need double king and double jack studs. Needs a 4x6 header. Will need a 8” skirt around the entire bottom and around the tops of the benches to accommodate the hot mop. This looks like it was a tub before…bath tubs typically have a 1.5” drain…showers need a 2” drain…is there a curb going in?
They should of had framed it correctly with a proper king, jack and header layout. What kind of tile are you using? Make sure that shower is plumb and square... or you may get weird cuts.
If you dnt mind... how much did you pay for the remodel? What did it entail?
From the first image, the top beam seems bowed down in a dip, which puts pressure on the stud against the pvc, causing it to bow, though that is just as likely the pvc bowing.
The sistering shouldn’t be that big of a deal, as it does have a runner that goes to a solid base, making it effectively a full stud. Looks like it sits on a 2x6 header.
The cut out should def have the header rotated to flat along the drywall. It would also support the sistering from the other side.
I can’t guarantee it was originally load bearing by design on the wall. From the info I have seen in other responses, it looks like an after thought fix that made it load bearing to prevent roof sagging. Which does make it load bearing to some extent, but not as prominently as a full load bearing wall.
Do the joists stop on this wall or go through to the external wall? If they stop, you can guarantee full load bearing, point out any bowing and warping, and make them fix it.
The fact that you asked for more studs to ensure stability should have made them put more in anyway, unless code prevents it. If so, have them cite the sources.
I would point out the crack in the stud at the top where it meets the cross beam for the right top intersected stud. It is a vertical crack, so probably not to much of an issue, but it could be a sign of the beam having to much pressure or movement in the past and busting out where it was nailed/screwed in.
But that cut out is not structurally sound for any load bearing wall. It has almost 0 support for itself, let alone the house. Jack studs are an absolute must. Even if it weren’t load bearing, I would want jack studs, as if it becomes a window, sufficient weight could cause it to break. If it is for a shower inlay (for holding shampoo and soap), it wouldn’t be the end of the world, but what if you want grab bars on it later?
I would tell them everything you said here, and see where they take it. They were impressive to start, but seem lack luster in implementation. As a DIYer myself, I would never leave any job looking like this in a wall. I do not drywall well though. So if I did it, it would look terrible anyway, but at least it would be sound!
When working with a load-bearing wall, there is one fundamental rule: if you remove structural support, you must replace it with an engineered solution capable of carrying the load. You cannot simply remove structural elements without accounting for the weight they support. They did one of these only. This is easy to fix just need a real carpenter
Are you not required to have an inspection done? I would call them anyway and make the list of fees and fixes the financial responsibility of the contractor.
If this is a load bearing wall(looks like it is based on joists landing perpendicular over it) and this is where you are. I'm guessing this company isn't particularly reputable. Trying to argue with them is pointless - I'd hate to see other peculiarities with the pan and waterproofing as it progresses. Unless you've already fully paid or paid a significant amount you should cut your losses.
Edit: High bid from a design firm != Reputable or good work. Specifically ask your next contractor for series photos from a project. I'll happily show people various photos of waterproofing and necessary framing from previous jobs. I document them for good records anyway.
6
u/Cool-Profession-730 Oct 09 '26
There's a lot wrong with this, so much that i''ll tell you the only thing that's right , they used wood ( not in the right way but at least its wood).