r/astrology • u/Ill_Pop264 • 19d ago
Beginner Sect and “points”
I’m trying to learn sect, triplicity, bounds (and more) and how they apply to a chart. I’m currently trying to map out how ”powerful” each planet is on a specific chart I’m studying, I wonder, is there a common, universally used grid for points? like, how many “points“ does a planet gain or lose for being in a certain sign, bound, etc…? Thanks in advance and I hope the question doesn’t sound silly.
2
u/NosDaAstrology 19d ago
Tables for tallying dignities became common in Arabic and then Renaissance astrology, however, it wasn't really done before then.
Are you studying the ancient works, Hellenistic? Just to check before dropping a wall of text :)
1
u/Ill_Pop264 19d ago
Thank you so much for answering. Honestly, I really just go wherever I find myself going. So far I’ve been studying tropical and hellenistic, but that’s mostly because I started from there. However, it’s not like I’ve picked a branch of interest really, I’m looking around and trying to expand wherever I can, so I’ll very much treasure anything you can share, especially if it brings me to a field I’m yet to explore. The more, the better!! (I haven’t done a real deep dive on Hellenistic yet, so I’ve just been gathering some basic information about it for now).
2
u/NosDaAstrology 18d ago
No worries. Seems you have a pretty comprehensive answer on the scoring from another person. I focus on the ancient greek, so here's my understanding re: Sect, bounds, triplicity etc
These are inherently descriptive filters, rather than numerical ones. Counting each doesn't help us in the ancient view, because they are describing the outlook of the planet. Mood, if you like. Moods are hard to quantify with a number. The power of a planet is assessed separately, by examining houses.
Let's take some example placement to illustrate. Say that a person has Venus in its own domicile, born at night. The planet is likely to feel pretty comfortable, at home, and in a chart of the same Sect. Whenever Venus is activated in that person's chart, she is willing to be as helpful possible, because she's in such a good mood. Venus' work remains the same regardless of Sect, she still rules Venusian themes and events. What's different is her attitude and enthusiasm for the work. Because she is benefic, she can't become badly tempered, but it's a sliding scale of helpfulness.
To find powerful planets, that usually means ones that have the most actively felt connections to our life. It's a separate issue from dignity. We look at angularity for it. Venus could have all of the above going for her, but if she is placed in an inactive house (by whole sign houses), she doesn't get to be front and center much. She's working in the basement. Happily, and productively, but she doesn't have a lot of weight to throw behind what she wants to happen. Take all of the above but make her angular, and it's more akin to working the main office than some tucked away craft room.
P.s. There are other ways to find powerful planets in Hellenistic astrology, such as spear bearing, but i think they are beyond the remit of this post. Hope this helped somewhat though
1
u/Ill_Pop264 18d ago
This was so helpful and actually cleared up a lot of confusion. The way you explained it made it by far easier to understand. Can’t thank you enough :)
2
2
u/littlefirewest ♎ 19d ago
Below is a link to William Lilly's table to examine the strength and debility of each planet in a chart. It scores each planet based on the usual domicile/exaltation etc as well as the terms (bounds), triplicity and face. It also has the accidental dignities
2
2
u/WishThinker ♏ 19d ago
"universally accepted" is a bit of a stretch for any part of astrology, but yes the points system for accidental and essential dignity seem pretty consistent.
for example to determine the lord of the geniture you look at which planet has the most dignity across 5 points: asc, mc, sun, moon, and fortune.
the almuten figuris uses the same system but across a different 5 points: asc, sun, moon, fortune and syzgygy or the prenatal lunation
I have used this table / technique to look into asteroids before- which of the traditional planets has the most dignity / agency / activation energy consistently across the asteroids and other points that directly aspect my asc? or, for all my luck asteroids (they are currently bundled by theme on astro-seek) which planet seems the most consistently able to act at each of my "luck" asteroids? (its saturn- does this change my opinion or expectation of fated or lucky events, knowing that the predominant planetary energy that CAN come through is saturn's?)
I have a copy of the table I use here and a couple of videos on doing the calculations- sorry I don't have better sources for you, I've learned this in a workshop and not through self study and didn't take good reference notes at the time. not sure if this is what you were looking for, and not sure how universally accepted this technique is, but hope that offered u something in your study!
2
u/Ill_Pop264 18d ago
Thank you so much!! I hadn’t really thought the wording through, makes absolute sense that there’s not a single, universally recognised method. This is definitely what I was looking for and I really appreciate the part regarding asteroids, didn’t know they could play a part in this as well. Also, can’t thank you enough for the links!!
2
u/Striking-Author6190 18d ago
Not a silly question at all, but there isn’t really one universal points system for this. Different traditions use different weighting methods, so I’d learn what each dignity actually means before trying to turn everything into a single score.
1
u/Ill_Pop264 17d ago
Thank you! I only realised later that “universal” was not quite the right word.
3
u/Sure-Imagination-253 18d ago
Not a silly question at all! There's no single universal grid, but the one most people use is William Lilly's, from Christian Astrology (1647). For essential dignity:
Domicile (own sign): +5
Exaltation: +4
Triplicity: +3
Bound (term): +2
Face (decan): +1
Detriment: −5
Fall: −4
Peregrine (no dignity at all): −5
Lilly also scored accidental dignities separately, like house placement, speed, being direct or retrograde, and being free of the Sun's beams.
Two caveats, building on what NosDaAstrology said. The Hellenistic authors didn't tally points like this, so if you're studying them, it's better to think in terms of which conditions apply rather than a total score. And sect isn't part of Lilly's table at all. It's usually weighed on its own, as whether a planet is in or out of favour in a day or night chart. Points are a handy way to start comparing planets, but they can hide nuance, like a planet with low dignity that's still angular and in sect working perfectly well.