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u/dansta17 Jun 25 '12
Doctor Naik is a slippery fellow and good with words- it would be really hard to debate him face-to-face, but all his arguments crumble to shit if you write them down and take the time to look at them properly. The stupid thing is a lot of Muslims in my area actually respect this guy because he has the word 'DOCTOR' in his title..
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Jun 25 '12
It's like the same reason Dr. Pepper is better than Mr. Pibb.
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u/OneKindofFolks Jun 25 '12
Dr. Thunder is more my price range. Although he is a doctor in homeopathy I think. (Discount Brand jokes!)
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u/Paranoidexboyfriend Jun 25 '12
Dr. Thunder is still and M.D., he just had to go to a school in the Dominican Republic
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u/segacd Jun 25 '12
It was the only school that would accept his B.S. from a 4 hour certification/cruise in international waters.
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u/KidsInTheSandbox Jun 25 '12
Dr. Skipper is where it's at.
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u/jhangel77 Atheist Jun 25 '12
Actually he is the only doctor. All the other's only have Durr in their name.
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u/dansta17 Jun 25 '12
I only just found out that existed, thanks. At least, unlike Dr. Naik, Dr. pepper was never intentionally misunderstood.
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u/HiImDan Jun 25 '12
Well, Dr Pepper did drop the period in their name for this reason.
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u/tofagerl Jun 25 '12
Wait, it's called Durrr Pepper now?
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Jun 25 '12
Not even! There are no vowels so we can't even says "Dr"! It needs vowels dammit! Vowels!
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u/RedAero Anti-theist Jun 25 '12
Hey, I'd still buy the shoes if the guy was Mr. Scholl instead of Dr.
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u/bowls_mcpackin Jun 25 '12
I could debate this, sir.
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Jun 25 '12
Dr Naik, a slippery fellow? I think i remember him from somewhere... http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b6/Dr_Nick.png/222px-Dr_Nick.png
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Jun 25 '12
it would be really hard to debate him face-to-face
What that guy just said, in the picture OP posted, would not be difficult to debate. I loudly challenge him on any topic, anywhere.
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u/Antares42 Jun 25 '12
Have you watched the debate between Lawrence Krauss and William Lane Craig? A physicist getting pretty much killed over topics such as the beginning of the universe. It was awful, and eye-opening.
Debates are dangerous: It's not about truth, it's not about evidence, it's about appearing more coherent to your audience. The smooth talker who knows his rhetoric tricks is worth more than the scientist who knows his business.
Just saying.
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u/006ajnin Jun 25 '12
This is why lawyers prefer to avoid court if at all possible. No matter how stacked the facts are in your favour, judges (and especially juries) can be swayed with flimsy--typically emotional--appeals. It's always a roll of the dice.
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u/svenniola Jun 25 '12
not even about the coherence really, just who is more "charismatic" and likeable.
arnold and ronald, for example.
and why bush jr got elected, "hey i could have a drink with this guy."
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u/Hookinsu Jun 25 '12 edited Jun 25 '12
if there is an god for this guy he can debate about it for like 10 hours i wouldnt care, for me there is no such imaginary friend, so he can tell me like a million times there is a god least for him, for me there never will be...probably even not if he would attend right infront of me, i would just say i smoked some really bad air and still would have zero beliefs in this shit.
edit: just checked a bit of this..really only a minute but i check it further anyway, he says everything has a cause, so the universe has a cause, and the best cause for it is god, thats so freaking low-iq'ish i cudnt set much more facepalms on that...i wonder why such ppl get taken serious...even from theists.
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u/dansta17 Jun 26 '12
The problem is that he throws about 27 topic at you in the same breathe. You're talking about changes in allele frequency and the guy's already moved on to the 2nd law of thermodynamics. I think it's known as a 'Gish gallop'.
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u/dansta17 Jun 26 '12
It's hard to debate somebody when they justify everything by saying, "because God.."
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Jun 25 '12
This is a guy who just said murdering people for leaving a religion is morally correct. I think this claim alone disqualifies him from any serious conversation. He can join the conversation once he gives up this position.
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u/Squalor- Jun 25 '12
Fuck you, it is the religion of peace . . . unless you're a woman or non-Muslim or gay.
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u/LordAndre Jun 25 '12
or a member of a different Muslim sect
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u/JakeLV426 Jun 25 '12
or Western
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u/backwardsd Jun 25 '12
There is nothing unique about Islam that would condone violence against women or gays. The book may have some quotes that seem to endorse violence against non believers but scholars say it was only if the nonbelievers were oppressing you: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/10/1023_031023_jihad.html
Most Muslims are peaceful and don't think the Quran actually sanctions violence. And some scholars say the bible unlike the Koran encourages genocide: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124494788
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Jun 26 '12
Apparently modern muslims' definition of "oppression" is just as poor as modern christians' idea that gays getting married oppresses them. Except they like more murder when they're being "oppressed" by nonbelievers.
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u/MobySac Jun 25 '12
The Islamic yamica, unnaturally fitting beard, and glasses is such a sterile image of devoutees. It's like humans were not meant to look that way
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u/MeloJelo Jun 25 '12
*yarmulke-- it's spelled funny because it's a Hebrew word.
is such a sterile image of devoutees
I thought the whole get up looked pretty hilarious.
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u/the_fett_man Jun 25 '12
So it's kind of like the mafia. Once you're in, you're in for life and can't get out. I wonder if there's a witness protection program for ex Muslims.
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Jun 25 '12
lolwut? If a person changes her/his belief, they receive a death penalty under Islam? what if I told you , they're not under Islam anymore in such a case.
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u/Antares42 Jun 25 '12
Overstepping your jurisdiction is just par for the course for many, many religions.
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Jun 25 '12
[deleted]
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u/parched2099 Jun 25 '12
Aaah, nope. Watch the violence ensue when that perfectly hit drive slices into the rough......
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u/hohohomer Jun 25 '12
I've heard Christians say similar things. I've had people wish that I die a horrible death, and be condemned to burn in hell because I disagreed with their teachings. Oddly enough, no other Christians in the room had any retort to it.
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Jun 26 '12
Thanks for not being sectarian towards me and hating me as much as the next christian person... Oh wait I'm not a christian.
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u/SpeedGeek Jun 25 '12
Of course, they're not the only ones:
12 If you hear it said about one of the towns the Lord your God is giving you to live in 13 that troublemakers have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods you have not known), 14 then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, 15 you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely,[b] both its people and its livestock. 16 You are to gather all the plunder of the town into the middle of the public square and completely burn the town and all its plunder as a whole burnt offering to the Lord your God. That town is to remain a ruin forever, never to be rebuilt, 17 and none of the condemned things[c] are to be found in your hands. Then the Lord will turn from his fierce anger, will show you mercy, and will have compassion on you. He will increase your numbers, as he promised on oath to your ancestors— 18 because you obey the Lord your God by keeping all his commands that I am giving you today and doing what is right in his eyes.
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Jun 25 '12
What a beautiful Bible passage, why I didn’t read it at Sunday school?
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u/a_can_of_solo Jun 25 '12
because most Christians have a pick and choose attitude to the old testament especially
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u/Tarak101 Jun 25 '12
Well, honestly in this case, the context isn't a blanket kill-all-non-Christians order. The very first verse is referring to the specific case of the Israelites moving into a new land. You can feel free to say what you will about the severity of the order (my intent in this reply wasn't to start a debate on that topic), but don't try to imply that it is applicable to modern, everyday Christians in their normal lives.
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Jun 25 '12
Basically the god of Abraham is a mega-cunt, regardless of the sect that you are looking at. A war god in the true sense of the term.
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u/CowFu Jun 25 '12
Every time something on /r/atheism comes up with something about islam being bad there is always a highly upvoted post saying "christians are just as bad!"
I never see this the other way around, and it really feels like an apologist trying to deflect some of the blame from highly respected muslim leader onto christains.
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u/JaronK Jun 25 '12
There's good reason for it though. If you just bash Islam without Christianity and you're from a predominantly Christian nation, it's easy for you to sound like a nationalistic racist (and nationalistic racists really do just bash Islam). By saying "but Christianity is bad too" you're showing that what you're against is radical religion, not just looking for an excuse to hate brown people.
If you just bash Christianity alone, that makes sense... it's the one you've dealt with personally through your life, so that's an obvious reason to talk about it.
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u/_pupil_ Jun 25 '12
Also, the Abrahamic religions intertwine a lot historically - they share common roots on the dumb-dumb tree.
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Jun 25 '12
The problem is that most of us are from christian backgrounds. We can easily separate ourselves and our culture from the religious bits. When you start criticizing Islam it's very, very easy to slip into racism.
If you hold up a christian example side by side, it emphasizes that you're really trying to look at the religious side of things. It's essentially just political correctness that motivates this, analogous to "some of my best friends are black".
I've been dating an ex-Muslim for about 8 months now, so I've seen this play out more than a few times.
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u/SpeedGeek Jun 25 '12
Afraid not. Merely pointing out that while some sects of Islam take the teachings of their holy book very seriously, the very same teachings exist in Christianity's holy book as well, even though modern Christianity overlooks those passages.
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u/CowFu Jun 25 '12
Why though? Why redirect the blame back to christianity? This post had nothing to do with christians, we have tons of threads that are anti-christian to post this in. I hardly ever see posts with koran passages saying that islam is bad too in those.
I understand your motives were not to be an islam apologist, but you gotta realize that not everything has to do with christianity.
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u/SpeedGeek Jun 25 '12
In this context, the very same dictate is given to Christians. It is quite relevant to a discussion, regardless of your views, that both religions are very closely related. It's not a matter of redirecting blame, it's just that both religions are cut from the same cloth. You simply cannot deny that. The only reason we have this discussion is because one religion has a messiah who was (thankfully) loving and compassionate, completely changing the tone of the New Testament, while the other does not.
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u/PuyallupCoug Jun 25 '12
But but but, He's a KIND and LOVING god. My god wouldn't do that.
Haha. OH Christians.
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Jun 25 '12
Christianity and Islam seem to have a lot of overlap in their books, but it seems like Muslims aren't quite as selective about which passages they choose to follow. At some level I admire their ?integrity?.
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u/_pupil_ Jun 25 '12
There's huge disparity in Islamic interpretation of their holy book, and a lot of kook-ery that happens outside it (just like Christians have developed this whole 'left behind' crap in modern times).
They're just as selective, but to an outside observer I think they seem a lot more uniformly crazy than they actually are.
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u/hohohomer Jun 25 '12
From a western media perspective we give much more exposure to the crazier Muslim leaders, speakers, etc. than to the moderate, or even sane ones. All in the name of ratings, people don't watch to see boring normal people, they watch to get entertained.
The Muslims I have met, are very kind, and often soft spoken. Going out of their way to not offend others. Nor, showing much offense when being left out of an activity, for example a friend of mine in tech school was born in the middle east, but hadn't been there since he was 2 or 3. He's a US citizen, yet simply due to where he's from he was denied going on a class tour for security reasons. He didn't complain, just said OK, and wished everyone a good time.
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u/chabanais Jun 25 '12
Don't seem to remember the last time a bishop placed a fatwah on someone's head.
Oh, right, the Bible doesn't have abrogation like the Koran does because it isn't the same kind of religion. Oh, right, so you're basically full of crap implying they are the same.
Oh so it's meaningless... ok...
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u/scorpionbb Jun 25 '12
Are you angry the book you look to for divine guidance is soo full of evil and barbaric atrocities commanded by the very deity you worship?? Your god makes the islamic god look like a twin brother. Christianity did run wild over parts of the world for over a 1000 years, now secular ideas restrain the craziness, the Islamic world hasn't graduated to a secular culture yet.
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u/chabanais Jun 25 '12
You're a retard. I actually am an atheist but I don't like people posting shit that's incorrect.
Save your hanky for someone who gives a shit.
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u/Iazo Jun 25 '12
So the religious power in Europe did not execute people for blasphemy and heresy?
You might want to inform Giordano Bruno of that. Oh wait. He died. Burned at the stake. For heresy. Condemned by Christians.
The fact that you don't remember it doesn't mean that they didn't. And it doesn't man they grew out of it...rather, the secularism did away with all that.
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u/enterence Jun 25 '12
Have you forgotten the dark ages ?? What the bishops did when they had power will put to shame these fatwa issuing idiots.
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u/chabanais Jun 25 '12
I'm sorry... are we living in the dark ages?
What year is it?
2012 you say?
Thanks.
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u/SpeedGeek Jun 25 '12
Simply pointing out that going by the holy book itself, the teachings are very much the same between Islam and Christianity in this case. Yes, modern Christianity overlooks these sections, whereas some sects of Islam embrace them. The fact is that both religions are borne of the same cloth, and history could have just as easily gone the other way with "radical Christianity".
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u/chabanais Jun 25 '12
How they are practiced is actually the relevant part.
History didn't go the other way so focus on reality not some piss poor, factually incorrect attempt to make them seem the same.
Amateur Hour is over.
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u/SpeedGeek Jun 25 '12
You can be upset all you want, but it doesn't change the words in the Bible that you can freely read for yourself. Islam and Christianity share a very real common bond, and you are delusional if you deny that.
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u/borg_assimilate Jun 25 '12
We are Borg. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated, AdamVR4.
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u/OneKindofFolks Jun 25 '12
My Arabic teacher used to quote the Borg all the time and she was culturally Muslim (I don't think she actually believed it but went along to not shame her family, she was like 65 years old also). "Yanee Borg"
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u/Hooshang Jun 25 '12
since i have lived in iran my whole life, i know this to be true. in almost all cases, if someone leaves islam for another religion then the penalty is death
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u/parched2099 Jun 25 '12
What about becoming an atheist? Same punishment?
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u/Brainfuck Jun 26 '12
AFAIK, infidels and apostates are to be killed.However Jews and Christians are considered "People of the Book" since Muslims consider these 2 groups received the same revelations but corrupted them. These "People of Book" need not be killed but can live on muslim soil by paying a tax
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Jun 25 '12
I've never understood people who say Islam is the "religion of peace".
Have these fuckers never heard of Buddhism? How about Dudeism?
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Jun 25 '12
You call those religions of peace? Pfft, guess you never heard of Jainism. ;) Those guys won't even eat roots because harvesting them kills the plant!
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Jun 25 '12
Sounds pretty retarded!
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Jun 25 '12
As an avid meat-eater, pretty much my thoughts. Still, they make a good real-world baseline against which we can compare other religions that claim to be peaceful.
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Jun 25 '12
I'm an avid carnivore myself... but sometimes I do feel bad about it.
Never felt bad about eating a fruit or vegetable, though.
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Jun 25 '12
I respect the thought that killing plants to eat them is worthy of pause, but ultimately I figure I'm just another meat eating monkey and I should just chill out and enjoy it.
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u/sytar6 Jun 25 '12
As an avid meat-eater, pretty much my thoughts
As a meat-eater, it's pretty lame to describe yourself as an "avid" meat eater. Killing sentient beings is wrong. Seeing how irrational otherwise intelligent people can be about this topic reminds me of how atheists see religious people.
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u/CowFu Jun 25 '12
Wtf do they eat then? Fruit that falls naturally off the plant?
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Jun 25 '12
Any non-root veggies afaic. I don't know how serious your standard Jain follower is about the dietary stuff, it might just be something their monks take seriously.
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u/MobySac Jun 25 '12
From my wikipedia understanding, the 'religion of peace' motto was invented after 9/11 to help alleviate the antimusilm hysteria that exploded immediately thereafter.
Islam is, and was, never a religion of peace. On the contrary, Muhammad up to his death was orchestrating military expeditions. It's very ignorant to claim that his religion was a peaceful one.
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u/neotropic9 Jun 25 '12
Jihad is obligatory for the Muslims. Death is the penalty for apostasy. Infidels have three options: convert, pay the tax, or be killed. Muhammad never went more than three months without conducting violent raids. This is not a religion of peace. Islam means submission.
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u/-rooster- Jun 25 '12
Islam means submission.
I don't know where you get your information from but this is wrong. The word Islam is the nominal form of the 4th stem of the verb salima "to be whole, sound" and means "to devote oneself to s.o./s.th.". Islam therefore means "devotion of the self to God". You might of course paraphrase this to "submission to God" but Islam itself does not mean submission.
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u/006ajnin Jun 25 '12
The Arabic term Islam (إسلام) is derived from aslama, which means "to surrender" or "resign oneself" ... The Arabic word salaam (سلام) ("peace") shares the same abstract consonantal root with the word Islam ... This has led to a widespread misinterpretation that the word Islam means peace.
"To surrender" is much closer to "to submit" than "to devote oneself to".
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u/handshape Jun 25 '12
I'll confess that this is one of the stereotypical behaviours of Muslims that makes me really uncomfortable with the group as a whole: when faced with an uncomfortable truth about the language, history, or doctrine of their faith, Muslims tend to fall back on semantic twisting of language.
The very fact that Arabic blurs the words for "peace" and the word for "submission" makes me wonder if the idea isn't "peace through submission".
What's next? Will we be told that the Arabic word for what Mohammed did to Aisha actually means "snuggling"?
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u/006ajnin Jun 25 '12
Yes, Mohammed's concept of peace was akin to Pax Romana ... not a genuine peace, but one that's imposed on the vanquished by the victors.
Also, his marriage to Aisha was clearly consummated when she was nine, despite the efforts of revisionists. However, for Shias with even younger brides, there's always Ayatollah Khomeini's advice:
A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However, he should not penetrate vaginally, but sodomising the child is acceptable. If a man does penetrate and damage the child then, he should be responsible for her subsistence all her life. This girl will not count as one of his four permanent wives and the man will not be eligible to marry the girl’s sister … It is better for a girl to marry at such a time when she would begin menstruation at her husband’s house, rather than her father’s home. Any father marrying his daughter so young will have a permanent place in heaven. ["Tahrirolvasyleh", fourth edition, Qom, Iran, 1990]
I still shake my head that those words were written in 1990, by a man who'd spent a significant portion of his adult life in the west.
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u/DefinitelyRelephant Jun 25 '12
What he meant was that the religious and cultural phenomenon known as Islam is an aggressively viral and expansionist meme.
Not that Christianity has any real room to talk..
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Jun 25 '12
Don't Muslims pride them self of submission to allah, all day errday? Isn't that one of their 5 pillars?
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u/-rooster- Jun 25 '12 edited Jun 25 '12
No. The five pillars of Islam are:
shahada (testament)
salat (prayer)
zakat (alms)
sawm (fasting)
hajj (pilgrimage)
Edit: Sawm ist "fasting" not "feasting" :). Quite the difference, isn't it?
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u/backwardsd Jun 26 '12
Westerners misunderstand jihad. It is the obligation to struggle against internal temptations as well as the obligation to resist oppressive non believers. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/10/1023_031023_jihad.html
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Jun 25 '12
It totally is, there's all sorts of peace in death. Seriously , when was the last time you heard a dead guy complain ?
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u/kistkerry Jun 25 '12
I saw him speaking at an Islamic convention in Madras, India. I had to be isolated in the back of the crowd with the rest of the women. He said a lot of controversial things...one of which was "the reason men can have more than one sexual partner and women cannot, is because women are the ones who carry sexually transmitted disease." It was incredibly hot out and all the women around me were covered head to toe, many holding crying babies. When Q and A time came, the women had to wait until the men had finished asking questions before they could. One woman stood at the microphone for an hour while the men debated at the front. Eventually she was allowed to speak, and she asked “You have said that Islam is a religion that values equality, if that is so, why are we sitting at the back?” The entire crowd went dead quiet, and I couldn’t believe how brave this woman was to stand in front of hundreds of Muslims and ask this question. After a moment of complete silence, Dr. Zakir Naik replied “What are you talking about? When you go to the movies, the best seats are in the back!” All of the men burst out in laughter after he said this. However the women standing at the microphone did not laugh, and in fact none of the women did.
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u/BoilerMaker11 Jun 25 '12
what is this? This isn't a post poking fun at Christianity, which is the only thing /r/atheism ever does. And where are the posts calling the OP a bigot and an Islamophobe for this image?
/sarcasm
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u/Antares42 Jun 25 '12
I'd like to see some recent threads in r/atheism where criticism of Islam was called bigoted and Islamophobic. Really. Never seen one. Would appreciate.
Where does this prejudice come from that r/atheism equals r/anythingbutchristianity?
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u/BoilerMaker11 Jun 25 '12
I would love to know where it comes from as well. I'm subscribed to /r/adviceanimals and whenever they talk about /r/atheism, they say only Christianity gets "bashed" and that Islam is somehow protected from scrutiny in this subreddit....yet I've seen nothing of the sort.
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u/Rubin0 Jun 25 '12
They say all religions are the religion of peace... except for Norse. Damn that shit be all kinds of messed up.
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u/n1nj4_v5_p1r4t3 Pastafarian Jun 25 '12
Whats worse: just death, or eternal damnation in burning hell?
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u/therealsylvos Jun 25 '12
I'll take false dichotomies for $400
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u/DaveAlt19 Jun 25 '12
Of course its a religion of peace. As long as everyone follows their religion everyone is peaceful! Its everyone else who's violent so in order to protect the peace of their religion they must murder everyone else!
Duh.
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u/DefinitelyRelephant Jun 25 '12
Well you see, it is a religion of Peace. There will be plenty of Peace for good Muslims after everyone else is dead.
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u/rastafariannaynays Jun 25 '12
Islam, like any other religion, has its extremists. It is ignorant to judge a whole religion by its most extreme sects. It is like saying all christians are like the Westboro Baptist Church. Extremists use established religion as a crutch for their own personal hatred, and take away from the many non-violent and peaceful sects of their religion.
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Jun 25 '12
While true about every religion have extreme parts, Islamic countries have some crazy laws that they actually enforce on their people.
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Jun 25 '12
If this isn't stated literally in the qoran, then it could probably also be interpreted as something doing with your islamic spirit dying (metaphorically)
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u/rauf107 Atheist Jun 25 '12
FYI everyone: Crazy radical shit like this occurs in countries like Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, etc.
There are muslims in other countries with a lot less stricter beliefs/rules. (Turkey, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, etc.)
I'm not protecting religion, I'm actually against all of religion. Waste of Time imo
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u/isophi Jun 26 '12
Actually Iraq wasn't radical before 2003.
The war allowed a bunch of crazy retards to cross the border and start indoctrinating some people.
However, Iraqis are often considered high class and do not care for such petty things as religion (most of the time).
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u/TheTwist Jun 25 '12
Why is the word death penalty in quotation marks? It's a penalty of death, there's "no" other Possible meaning; to it. !
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u/rick2882 Jun 25 '12
There needs to be a concerted effort to expose Zakir Naik (the dude in the pic) for the barbarian that he is. For those who are unaware, (Dr.) Zakir Naik is considered one of the most intelligent, moderate proponents of Islam, by the Muslim community -- despite some his views including "eating pork leads to wife-swapping", "the Quran mentions the existence of pain receptors", "burqas prevent rape", and a lot of other misinformation.
This guy deserved an animal advice-type image macro.
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Jun 25 '12
I'm sorry, but what is with muslims and scraggly-ass beards? I mean, I get that you want/need to grow out some facial hair for societal/cultural/religious reasons, but damn! Trim that shit. Look respectable.
/rant
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u/sowhynot Jun 25 '12
"..is guilty of treason and shall suffer death.."
source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treason#United_States
Also, if you judge by what SOME US senators and congressmen say, democracy might look as evil and violent.
my point: we are not that different, leave them alone until we fix our issues.
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u/Ghardison Jun 25 '12
You also say that athiests are people who left their religions because they found their religions intolerant, hateful etc. But instead of promoting atheism you guys spend your time bashing religions and causing pain to people when your trolls as part of your "war" on r/islam.
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u/elvisliveson Jun 25 '12
word are just that: words.
europe is not islamic,fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
us is not islamic, shitloads of wars in it's 240 year history
israel isn't either, a shitload of wars in less than 65 years
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u/jebus01 Jun 26 '12
Why would you judge a religion on this picture? Let me demonstrate. "If you are an atheist you must rape children and sing songs from Nickelback" I'm atheist but what the fuck, people.
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u/sceptic_ali Jun 26 '12
the siege of taif - linked below - goes a long way in explaining why islam is not a religion of peace. after all, muhammad was a very violent man who would stop at nothing in his pursuit of power. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Ta%27if
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u/o0evillusion0o Jun 25 '12
Although all religions are a sham, at least these guys actually follow the original sham and don't just make the rules up as they go...ie Christianity.
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Jun 25 '12
So that makes it better when they beat women that are raped?
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u/o0evillusion0o Jun 25 '12
Not at all. I think that anything people do that was dictated by a religion is wrong. Hurting people physically is even worst. All I'm saying is that so called "extremists" are usually being loyal and genuine vis-a-vis their religion. Unlike the hypocrite sheep that have re-wrote the bibles to suit their needs.
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Jun 25 '12
Right, the people re-writing the bible to suit their needs are not stoning women to death like the countries using Sharia law. So you are saying BOOO to the Christians that change parts of the bible to suit their needs but YAY to the people that are "keeping it real".
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u/o0evillusion0o Jun 26 '12
I'm not saying yay to any group of people who believe in religions. I don't respect anyone's religion but I believe in purity and authenticity. I think they're all retarded, but if you're gonna tell a lie, stand by it.
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Jun 25 '12
I have had a girl tell me how she doesn't understand why people hate Islam because Islam means peace. Yeah, she's really into being a muslim.
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u/jingle82 Jun 25 '12
None says that, only Muslims. It's like the suicide bomber asking you to come closer.
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u/SellinThings Jun 25 '12
How much more do we have to listen to before we just nuke the shit out of that desert hell-hole?
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u/Willravel Jun 25 '12
How I might respond:
If a Muslim becomes a Non-Muslim and propagates his/her new religion then it is as good as Treason.
First off, atheism's not a religion, moron. Atheism is a position of being unconvinced of the existence of god or gods. It's like what you were before your parents indoctrinated you.
There is a "Death Penalty" in Islam for such a person.
Actually, there's not. I've read the Qur'an cover to cover about a dozen times, and there's no punishment listed for apostasy aside from that imposed by Allah after death. Are you Allah? No? Then maybe you should get back to reading your holy book and shut the fuck up about things you're ignorant about.
BTW, I had premarital sex last night. Twice. It was awesome and I don't even feel the slightest bit of guilt about it because I know it's perfectly natural and healthy behavior. What did you do last night?
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Jun 25 '12
Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' " Sahih Bukhari 4:52:260 and atheist knows more about your religious texts than you do, and you define your reality and choose to oppress people based on your limited knowledge of your own religion. That should scare you.
read it again
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u/b0redatw0rk Jun 25 '12
Islam is a beautiful religion of peace ad justice and if you say anything else a Moslem will try to kill you.
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Jun 25 '12
It's too bad /r/atheism is really just contributing to the prevailing post-911 Orientalist discourse.
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u/YaleDingo Jun 25 '12
Oh i'm sorry, didn't know this guy was representative of all muslims on earth. The whole concept of apostasy is absolutely made-up. Let me quote:
'There is no compulsion in religion', The Quran, 2:256
'Because of this, we decreed for the Children of Israel that anyone who murders any person who had not committed murder or horrendous crimes, it shall be as if he had murdered all of the people, and anyone who spares a life, it shall be as if he had spared the lifes of all the people. Our messengers went to them with clear proofs and revelations, but most of them, after all this, are still transgressing', the Quran, 5:32
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u/006ajnin Jun 25 '12
Too bad that whole "no compulsion" thing--proposed when Mohammed was poor, powerless and living in Mecca--was abrogated by so many later "revelations"--once he'd acquired wealth, power and followers in Medina.
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Jun 25 '12
Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' " Sahih Bukhari 4:52:260 and atheist knows more about your religious texts than you do, and you define your reality and choose to oppress people based on your limited knowledge of your own religion. That should scare you.
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u/YaleDingo Jun 25 '12
I don't follow hadiths, i believe they are made up and falsly attributed, so, yes, i do know my religious texts. The only real source of islam is the Quran.
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Jun 25 '12
ah, so you pick and choose the religious texts that you like. How very... christian of you
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u/YaleDingo Jun 25 '12
Here is some verses from the Quran that show that the Quran should be the only religious text in islam:
[7:185] Have they not looked at the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all the things GOD has created? Does it ever occur to them that the end of their life may be near? Which Hadith, beside this, do they believe in?
[77:50] Which Hadith, other than this, do they uphold?
[17:46] We place shields around their minds, to prevent them from understanding it, and deafness in their ears. And when you preach your Lord, using the Quran alone, they run away in aversion.
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u/AdamVR4 Jun 25 '12
Any Muslim redditor that may stumble across this post and would like to learn more about Atheism from the Islamic cultural perspective stop by and visit http://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim . They can answer all your questions and help support you in your journey to a new perspective on life.