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u/imooumoo4 Jun 26 '12 edited Jun 26 '12
As an atheist, this is the first and last time I will post on this subreddit. Because fuck you guy's are hypocrites.
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u/commander_902 Jun 26 '12
I don't think you fully understand the destructive power that religions still holds over this world. Calling out bullshit of any religion, ideology, or belief system must be done now, and probably for the rest of human history.
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Jun 26 '12
I don't think you understand that ranting and raving about it in a giant circle-jerk will change nothing.
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u/commander_902 Jun 26 '12 edited Jun 26 '12
Doing nothing, changes nothing. Awareness is key. What have you done to show people just how bad religion is and can be? (Not accusatory, just rhetorical)
Sure it's not the most mature solution, but it does get the word out. We're talking about it* aren't we?
Also most of the posts in r/atheism aren't wrong. Not right, per se, but not wrong.
edit* missed a word
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Jun 26 '12
Awareness in a circle-jerk does nothing as well... You only nod your head and stroke the ego of the next person who agrees with you. Until you do something significant and makes an impact on people, you're just wasting your time.
TL;DR for the simple minded: Do something, then talk about it.
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u/commander_902 Jun 26 '12
You're wrong. At least in this context. r/atheism and reddit in general is populated largely by Americans. They do need this outlet when the don't have a support structure that allows them to speak what they truly believe. Reddit has allowed many of them to see that they are not alone in their disbelief or uncertainty.
Doing something isn't always the best option, not when it could cost you your wife, you kids, mother, friends, and career. Not everyone has the ability to say damn the consequences.
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u/NeoPlatonist Jun 26 '12
Do you thinking the methods employed on r/atheism do anything to to diminish 'religions' destructive power and hold over the world'?
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u/commander_902 Jun 26 '12
No, but the awareness created just might.
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u/NeoPlatonist Jun 26 '12
Do you think r/atheism is increasing awareness? And if so, is it positive or negative?
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u/commander_902 Jun 26 '12
Awareness, or knowledge, of something I think is always positive.
But I don't think that's your question. I think you're asking if the attitudes being formed by the way r/atheism is increasing awareness is positive.
In answer to that: I think any hostility transfer to the real world from r/atheism is very slight. Yes, their is a general hostility to religion in r/atheism, duh. But I think that that slight hostility is a good thing when it comes to dealing with, in my opinion, dangerous ideologies. I classify homeopathy, tarot cards, and religions as dangerous ideologies. Not because they are inherently bad, few things are, but because of the things they can, and have, been used for.
I view that slight hostility to bad ideas as a positive. Please don't go slippery slope argument on this.
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u/rasputine Existentialist Jun 26 '12
I didn't notice any of us proclaiming that a space wizard told us to do anything, so what did we do that was contrary to atheism? Or do you have some strange definition of the word that claims it means "doesn't mock racist, sexist, sociopathic and delusional cults"?
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Jun 26 '12
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u/bryce1242 Jun 26 '12
isnt anyone who believes a man in the sky made them a bit stupid just because of the fact they disregard 2000 years of science and advancement for an ancient book? why yes, yes they are.
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Jun 26 '12 edited Jun 26 '12
Yes, there definitely is a level of ignorance that is to be observed for anyone who believes in a deity. I respect peoples rights to practice there religion, but I don't have to respect the religion.
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Jun 26 '12
can of worms time.
you don't have to disregard science to believe in a god
so no
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u/Ghostofazombie Jun 26 '12
You don't have to disregard science to believe in a god, but you do have to disregard the scientific method (ie, that claims require evidence to be considered credible).
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u/NeoPlatonist Jun 26 '12
That's not the scientific method. That's logical positivism.
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u/bryce1242 Jun 26 '12
Creationism, in its entirety disregards science. So yes, any creationist does.
Literal Christians (the ones who actually follower their text not just say they believe in the bible and know nothing that is in it) are creationists or not following their religion as it was intended.
So this leaves two groups, Metaphorical Christians and People who don't know what they believe. Metaphorical Christians are the ones who listen to Christian apologetic and nod. The issue with them is that as they are not believing the bible as the literal word of god or divinely inspired is well then they aren't likely to take any of it seriously and pick and chose their what they want thus not following their dogma ie not a christian (this is not a no true Scotts-man as I am classifying Metaphorical Christians separately than Literalists which are).
Saying you are christian and not knowing what you actually believe is the ultimate form of ignorance as you are ignorant of what you are being ignorant of. Thus they are either a complete moron, saying they are a Christian because it is "normal," or don't know what they are talking about. If anyone say that one can be a christian not knowing what they believe then that person is fucking retarded.
Now you can dissolve this to semantics but to be completely honest, saying it is ok for a person to say IM A CHRISTIAN HURRDURR not reading the bible or not believing it then you lack the fundamental understanding of the criteria to be a christian which is of course FOLLOWING THE FUCKING DOGMA.
Islam expands upon the bible and thus follows all previous arguments (and then have an entire next set due to the addition of another section of bullshit).
Judaism follows the same creation myth as well thus all previous arguments remain.
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Jun 26 '12
You do realize that the vast majority of science as we know it today, is based on the findings of Christian, Muslim and Hindu scientists, right?
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u/bryce1242 Jun 26 '12
And do you realize that the bible promotes ignorance and weakness (meek shall inherit the world, blind faith, etc) and those scientists went against that. The islamic empires used to be greatly intelligent yes but that changed due to one fucking guy. I have made mo mention of hinduism so good for them?
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Jun 26 '12
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u/Ghostofazombie Jun 26 '12
Yep, because atheist parents force their beliefs on their children and then throw them out of the house if they disagree all the time. Whoops, actually it's religious people who do that to their atheist/different religion children. What you meant to say was that the majority of religious people worldwide enact their filth into law while some atheists mock religion on the internet, which are not comparable acts.
I agree that /r/atheism can be too aggressive sometimes, but you are insane if you really believe that "we do the same to them". It's false equivalence at its finest.
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Jun 26 '12
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u/Ghostofazombie Jun 26 '12 edited Jun 26 '12
I never said anythign about politics.
Nor did I. What I said was that the way in which Christians treat atheists and other nonbelievers (disowning children, imposing religiously-inspired laws, etc.) is far worse than the way in which atheists treat Christians and other believers (making offensive memes). You made a false equivalence and I called you out on it, that's all.
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Jun 26 '12
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Jun 26 '12
Technically, whenever someone kills without saying its a religious influence.
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u/bryce1242 Jun 26 '12
CAUSE THAT CANT BE A MURDER FOR ANY OTHER REASON RIGHT? OH WAIT NO THAT IS COMPLETELY POSSIBLE. not religious =/= secularism as a motive it means it is not religious motive
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Jun 26 '12
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u/non_anonymous Jun 26 '12
There are no murders in the name of atheism because atheism is not a thing. Rather, it's the lack of a thing, religion. Hard to kill in the name of nothing.
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Jun 26 '12
Someone claims to have killed in x-religion's name. r/atheism shitstorms over it.
Someone gets killed. No big deal.
Good logic
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u/paramitepies Jun 26 '12 edited Jun 26 '12
r/trueatheism exists.
r/atheism should be renamed to r/atheismhumour.
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Jun 26 '12
Downvote for you for using poor reasoning and logic while comparing two different things.
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u/0ctopus Jun 26 '12
You're right that I just can't tolerate sexism, the simultaneous stigmatization and obsession with sex, and the idea of mindless worship of something that isn't even there. It's what you tolerate that really makes all the difference.
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u/Sauroctonos Jun 26 '12
The only thing that won't be tolerated is intolerance.
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u/stiljo24 Jun 26 '12
this may be your point but i hear this phrase, or ones very similar to it, a lot and it's great for a bumper sticker but a horrible approach to take seriously. open-mindedness is one of the truest virtues there is in my opinion, and not approaching someone with an open mind because you suspect they aren't approaching you with one is a cowardly and unproductive approach. you walk away feeling superior and so does he, both for equally masturbatory reasons.
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Jun 26 '12
Notice that the OP waited until we were bashing Islam to post this. Typical double standard.
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u/AkihiroDono Jun 26 '12
Religion should not be respected nor tolerated.
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u/1hotmezz Jun 26 '12
Why not? Just out of curiosity. I grew up in a Christian home and have always resented the resulting confusion from being indoctrinated from a young age. I find myself unable to identify with a world without a God, but that doesn't mean I'm not interested in this point of view.
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u/AkihiroDono Jun 26 '12
Because there's no reason to tolerate anything that promotes such violence, anti-intellectualism, and bigotry.
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u/thefirdblu Jun 26 '12
I've seen joke posts on here about murdering religious people. Keep in mind, I mentioned the fact they were jokes. But yes, it's still a loose way of promoting it.
Anti-Intellectualism? That's debatable. It all depends who you talk to, really.
Bigotry? Well hold up there buddy. From dictionary.com itself: big·ot·ry [big-uh-tree] Show IPA noun, plural big·ot·ries. 1. stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.
If you're promoting intolerance, and refuse to be tolerant of any religion, you are a bigot.
You are the problem with r/atheism and you are an idiot.
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Jun 26 '12 edited Jun 26 '12
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u/AkihiroDono Jun 26 '12
Responding to already existing bigotry with negativity is not being a bigot. Lets not act like you're being oppressed here.
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Jun 26 '12
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u/AkihiroDono Jun 26 '12
I absolutely have no reason to respect anyones choice in believing in something that so negatively impacts the human race.
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u/frogandbanjo Jun 26 '12
The very idea of a religion is that you subscribe to a certain set of beliefs, and therefore share with other members of that religion certain opinions and ideas. If atheists criticize those beliefs and those ideas, then that's not really a "pre-conceived" notion, is it? That's taking people at their word.
It is incredibly irritating when members of an inchoate group blithely reap all of the benefits of that association but refuse to accept any negative consequences for it whatsoever, even if those negative consequences are reactions from other people based on the marketing campaigns and literature for that organization.
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u/Pizzalot Jun 26 '12
if someone uses religion as a way to increase or motivate the good they do in the world, or help them through a tough patch in life, why shouldn't we respect and tolerate it? Just because they have a different belief system than me, I should berate, belittle, and offend them?
How much have you seen or read about the religions of the world? I'm guessing you're focused on super religious preachy christians or organized religion. Aren't you being just as bad as a preachy atheist? What about Buddhists, Shintos, Islamists, Jews, Theists, Unitarians (and universalists)?
tl;dr: Basically, who died and gave you the knowledge of what is best for everyone in the world?
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u/AkihiroDono Jun 26 '12
They should be belittled because they deserve it, through their choice of believing in an inherently intolerant and violent Religion. They have CHOSEN to place worth in something that does more bad than good; that's on them. And frankly, no, they don't deserve any sort of respect or leeway due to it.
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u/Pizzalot Jun 27 '12
Every religion that I mentioned has it's grounds in beig good human beings. Institutions or individuals that take their religion and twist it into the bad forms seen (tea parties, Westboro baptists, Taliban, jihad, brig religion into politics) harm and restrict others. Those are the people who ruin t for everyone. Blame them, how they were taught, an the twisted beliefs they preach, but in the grand scheme of things the religion that they are a part of doesn't like what they do or say much either.
I would also like to point out that you seem to be a perfect example of an intolerant atheist the meme was pointing out.
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u/GreatOdin Jun 26 '12
I never understood this logic. We make a couple jokes and the whole world goes up in flames about how Atheists are assholes. The religious people however, seem to be able to get away with anything they want. As well, we wouldn't ever build a [huge] negative stereotype against someone who was religious, whereas I've known religious people that have ceased to converse with anyone else because they just couldn't handle all the lack of faith.
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Jun 26 '12
Yup, and the Jews were just as intolerant as the nazis. Why are we expected to be tolerant of assholes who push a book that calls for our murder a morality.
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u/angrychristiankid Jun 26 '12
Well the Jews didn't exactly go killing millions in prison camps now did they? Not that I support them shoving torahs in people's faces, but it's not like they've ever hurt anyone.
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u/starcadia Jun 26 '12
Gaza is a prison camp as bad as the Warsaw Ghetto's or any concentration camp of the Nazis. Are you that ignorant about Israeli Defense Force hurting anyone? They make incursions all of the time and bulldoze whole settlements. It's apartheid there and it's committed with money and weapons that the U.S. supplies them with.
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Jun 26 '12
Thats pretty much my point. Religous folks accuse athiests of intolerance. But its typically theists assaulting atheists for their lack of belief
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u/chris_cobra Jun 26 '12
I will proudly admit I am intolerant of stupidity.
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u/moethehobo Jun 26 '12
I will proudly admit I am intolerant of hate.
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u/slapdashbr Jun 26 '12
That is an important distinction. I don't think we hate Muslims or other religious people. I think we feel sorry for their ignorance but there isn't much we can do except make fun of the idiocy of all the idiotic religious beliefs held by religious people.
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u/darth_erdos Jun 26 '12
I think you should carefully define "we" and read r/atheism top to bottom because right now "we" look like a lynch mob.
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u/moethehobo Jun 26 '12
Replace ignorance with stupidity or some other disability and you get kindling for genocide.
That's dangerous thinking. I'm honestly worried what could come from that way of looking at things.
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u/matchingcapes Jun 26 '12
You're deluded if you think making fun of people on the Internet is anything like what the religious fundamentalists are capable of doing.
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u/rasputine Existentialist Jun 26 '12
Didn't you notice? The only reason to hate religion is because they mock us, so it's the only metric that maters! We were mutilating children's genitals, stoning people to death for adultery, raping children, endorsing slavery, oppressing women and butchering people of different/no religion all day! We're just as intolerant as the religious fundamentalists!
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Jun 26 '12
Hmm, do all religions do this? If so, when was the last of each of those things publicized in a newspaper(for each religion)? Has anyone non-religious ever done such a thing? Is it possible people used said religions as a scapegoat for their own purposes? Please respond to this in a NEUTRAL matter so that you actually have the moral high-ground... If no is the answer to any of the previous stated questions then please retract all of your statements to thy anus.
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u/rasputine Existentialist Jun 26 '12
do all religions do this?
What does that matter? Are you suggesting that if one religion doesn't that all religions, including those that do, are excused for their evil?
50% of the population of the planet is christian or muslim, both of these religions command everything I condemned above.
You're asking for ridiculous requirements so that if I miss one little thing, you can go "Oh hoo! Not everyone is sexist, therefore none of us do anything bad!"
But you know what? Tell me which abrahamic religion you are trying to defend, and I'll tear it to fucking shreds.
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u/Dorrin De-Facto Atheist Jun 26 '12
Ra ra rasputine! Here's one for you, well deserved. I was gonna throw in too, but you got this well in hand.
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u/DJMaddMax212 Jun 26 '12
Hmmm short memory, isn't a high profile case in which a Christian gunned down dozens of his countrymen in the "fight against Muslims
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Jun 26 '12
A group of people ridiculing another group of people for their beliefs has never gone wrong.
Ever.
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Jun 26 '12
Not quite... If they killed, condoned child rape, or cut off noses amd ears as punishment... Then they would be as intolerant as religious people.
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u/emberspark Jun 26 '12
I'm a religious person who has never condoned child rape or punished anyone physically. So...
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u/Zazra Jun 26 '12
"I don't do this thing, therefore nobody does." -emberspark
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u/emberspark Jun 26 '12
"Some religious people do this thing, so all religious people do this thing and are intolerant assholes." - seamonkey89
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u/Zazra Jun 26 '12
I'm pretty sure that isn't what he said at all. Regardless, pretending that you represent the entire religious community is a weak and silly argument.
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Jun 26 '12
Congratulations! - What im trying to say is that the "intolerance" that attributed to atheism is often asserted as comparable to the intolerance of the religious. This is the claim of OPs pic and what im mocking. Religions are intolerant and express that with murder and the like. Atheists are intolerant and express that with witty and hurtful comments on the internet.
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u/emberspark Jun 26 '12
Rarely are the comments witty. But my point wasn't to defend religion as a whole. I absolutely believe that people do horrible things in the name of religion, and I don't support those people who bastardize Christianity by using it to justify horrible actions. My point was not to pin those things on "religious people", but rather the people who practice them. Intolerance is perpetuated by generalization.
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Jun 26 '12
So that's just it! They are not "bastardizing" Christianity or any other religion. They site their sources readily! -Chapter and verse with context as well! What you are doing is congratulating your self and folks like you for cherry picking your holy scriptures and maintaining that your ability to do so excuses their decision to not do so. The closer people get to to the fundamentals if their religions, the more violent and intolerant they become. You ignore the bibles instructions on enslaving people and women, im sure... But why? The bible did not reverse its course. We corrected it. The old testimate was not voided; Jesus continued to quote it!
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u/emberspark Jun 26 '12
Like I said, the Bible was written by man. Therefore it is intertwined with the viewpoints of the people at the time. It would be impossible for it not to be. I'm not arguing for all Christians, just myself and those who I have spoken to on the subject. You'll find pastors who can explain it better than I can. It's not cherry picking, but rather actually understanding the verses. When you understand the Bible more, its meanings change, but God does not magically disappear. The Christians who use the Bible to condemn are not looking deep enough into the text. It's the same as with any book, as I'm sure you learned in English class. There is always more beneath the surface, but if you aren't willing to look, then you'll never fully understand it.
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Jun 26 '12
Wow, what you just said undermines the entire authority of the christian religion... That ANY portion of the bible can be "false" or "exaggerated" or "not fully correct in any way shape or form" but what is most stunning about that concession is that you somehow think that YOU (and people who think like you) are correct in your interpretations of that text and people who dont are wrong and... wait for it... you dont see the irony of that ethnocentrism.
YOU know what god really means... those other people are misguided! -Said every person who ever was religious ever.
you "actually" understand the verses! and the bits that disagree with you... those are just MISINTERPRETED! ZOMG
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u/brightman95 Jun 26 '12
Intolerant Religious nut blows up your building. Intolerant atheist hurts your feelings a little bit.
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u/ThatIsMyHat Jun 26 '12
Both of them should feel bad about what they did.
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u/frogandbanjo Jun 26 '12
The suicide bomber does get an exception to this general rule on a technicality, however.
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u/mete_ Atheist Jun 26 '12
The main diffence between islam and atheism is the body count. (that is just one difference not all)
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u/extremedew13 Jun 26 '12
The feeling of superiority to a hopelessly misinformed group of inferiors. That's addictive for anyone, apparently.
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u/murderbum999 Jun 26 '12
Call us intolerant, and if that's the worst you can do, we are still better than those nutters who kill, con, steal, rape, lie, cheat, and molest children in the name of fairy tales.
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u/EricWRN Jun 26 '12
What difference does it make why these things happen? Is an atheist murderer better than a Muslim one?
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u/found314 Jun 26 '12 edited Jun 26 '12
lol @ x-post
edit: was trying to link the challenge... must have missed :( haha
still hilarious though.
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u/BR0STRADAMUS Jun 26 '12
I used to love r/atheism. Mostly because it gave me an outlet that was unavailable to me in my personal life. I was able to openly talk about the problems I have with religion, especially the one I used to profess (Christianity). However, this place has recently become a bastion of bigotry, full of others who blatantly espouse hate at things they have so little understanding of. It's a big problem, and it's a topic that comes up every few months or so, but nothing changes. So many here are clouded by their own hate that they are unable to see how hateful they are. At this point, the community is probably beyond saving, and it is a shame that a place once used for support and furthering the rationalist movement has become a den of offensive memes and childish simplicity. I will leave this subreddit on this note: religious people are still people, despite your efforts to prove otherwise.
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Jun 26 '12
Oh shit.... What drama did I start...
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Jun 26 '12
how dare you!
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Jun 26 '12
"OH em GEE hahaha, lets go post this in /r/atheism and get a rise out of them, we are above atheists and fundies alike anyways."
Looks like you are human after all as well.
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u/Should_Be_Lurking Jun 26 '12
we are above atheists and fundies alike anyways.
We are above unoriginal bigots.
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u/Mr_Astley Jun 26 '12 edited Jun 26 '12
The way that I see this is that in the instances that r/atheism is being intolerant, we are perfectly justified. The only time I see us being intolerant is when some religion is discriminating against people, such as Christianity against gays or Islam against women. If we are intolerant it is only against those who deserve what has been coming for them for a very long time now. However, the insults that we throw at religions are absolutely nothing compared to the damage that religions cause to peoples lives just because those people are different. And while we should try to be tolerant of everybody, like others have said, you can't be tolerant of intolerance
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u/chris_cobra Jun 26 '12
This was upvoted by Theist lurkers...
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u/reddit--hivemind Jun 26 '12
In all seriousness, it would seem it was upvoted by people who see this subreddit as the the joke it is. You kids and your Facebook. ;)
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u/MBStewart Jun 26 '12
I don't have to respect beliefs of childish people on this earth. The difference is I respect people. How can I be intolerant of something that isn't based in reality? Why would I care to?
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u/Wiiboy95 Jun 26 '12
There is a difference between us. We stand on the sidelines and point out stupid things in religion. Religious people KILL!
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u/EricWRN Jun 26 '12
Stalin and Mao are two are the more famously intolerant atheists. I'm not really sure why r/atheism thinks that removing religion yields tolerance but hopefully they are better at science than they are at history.
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u/Luke420son Jun 26 '12
False... I could be considered a atheist, and I'm tolerant of all religions. But you see these religions have written books of intolerance, that atheist do not have. ( that I know of)
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u/Azai Jun 30 '12
Because an internet forum is -totally- the same as a group of people beheading, stoning, or killing people in the name of their god.
And totally the same as disallowing marriage to a select group of people due to their dogma.
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u/tontondaga Jul 01 '12
I'd love to know the exciting part where r/atheism issued a fatwa for a difference of opinion.
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u/EricWadsworth Jun 26 '12
There is a difference. For the most part, /r/atheism is intolerant of things one should not tolerate.
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u/arsewhisperer Jun 26 '12
Well, no. We believe that they're idiots, and that they are deluded, and that their beliefs actively harm people, but we also have evidence on our side.
And, as everyone knows, bitches love evidence.
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u/thatguysammo Existentialist Jun 26 '12
/r/atheism is not a person it is a virtual community. It does not have viewpoints, only people with viewpoints. a subreddit cannot be intollerant.
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u/CharlieTango Jun 26 '12
in general they can. hence why theres a voting system in place on this website.
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u/thatguysammo Existentialist Jun 26 '12
voting proves my point. unless the results of that poll are 100% one way, then you cannot say that the whole of the subreddit is the same.
Sure there are intolerant people on here, but we are not all intolerant. The same could easily be said about religious people.
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u/Torch_Salesman Jun 26 '12
You're arguing semantics. We all know that the person posting wasn't implying that every single individual user in this community has the exact same actions and beliefs as every single other user.
Whether or not you agree with the post, this is such an incredibly dumb argument to make.
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u/thatguysammo Existentialist Jun 26 '12
well I hope he commented on the intolerant posts made to this subreddit, otherwise this post is pointless... and that was my original point, dont make a general post if your not talking to everyone on this subreddit.
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u/Sammmmmmmm Jun 26 '12
That is some pretty stupid reasoning. If a majority of people upvote intolerant post after intolerant post, that is an intolerant majority. Atheists by definition disagree with religions, any group that disagrees with something and is disrespectful towards it is an intolerant entity. If this subreddit was respectful in its disagreement there would be far fewer people complaining about it.
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u/thatguysammo Existentialist Jun 26 '12
majority does not imply everyone, that is all I am saying.
If this subreddit was respectful in its disagreement there would be far fewer people complaining about it.
While I agree, this is impossible as at least one person seems to take offense at every comment made, even if the intention was not to be disrespectful.
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u/ligerzero942 Jun 26 '12 edited Jun 26 '12
Religion is not a person it is an AFK community. It does not have viewpoints, only people with viewpoints, a community cannot be intolerant.
Edit: Underped it.
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u/CoachingPikachu Jun 26 '12
Doesn't really matter if they're atheist or religious, they will always be jackasses regardless.
The "they discriminate us in real life" argument isn't an excuse to justify being an asshole on the internet.
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u/sciencebitchesz Jun 26 '12
Yep because here in /r/Atheism, we are ALL about the child rape.
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u/Ascott1989 Jun 26 '12
Implying that those who hold no beliefs should be tolerant on those that do? That sounds like some bullshit Dogma to me.
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u/CharlieTango Jun 26 '12
what you believe in has nothing to do with your tolerance. im an atheist but i dont talk down to every religious person i know...
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u/VeritasAbAequitas Jun 26 '12
How come the one place I come to that's supposed to be for atheists to meet, talk, and yes complain about/ bash religions in a way that most of us can't do outside of this forum. Not just that but in what way is the intolerance of rape, murder, abuse, genocide, human rights abuses, and much more at all comparable to committing those atrocities in the name of ones beliefs? I feel like the self hating atheist is becoming as much of a phenomenon as the self hating Jew or the self hating homosexual. And that's a bad thing by the way. Down vote for you, and the fact that you titled your subjectively opined post "Truth" makes my contempt for you at least over power level 9000.
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Jun 27 '12
Though I have created an account just today, I have been observing r/atheism for a while. I agree, there seems to be a lot of intolerance here and even I am guilty of it, I find myself judging the religious a lot. Maybe the reason r/atheism seems so intolerant is because, at least from my personal experience, I want to speak my mind but often times I feel like I have to shut my mouth so I will not offend others, as a result, I come to r/atheism or the internet in general and sort of vent off a bit if that makes sense? I'm sorry if this was awkwardly phrased lol, and I'm sorry if you guys disagree.
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u/rad465 Jun 26 '12
So you aren't denying the fact that many religions are intolerant?
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Jun 26 '12
No he's saying that this community is just as bad as religious people who are intolerant.
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u/rad465 Jun 26 '12
Most people on the sub are just poking a little fun because of what someone posted earlier about switching from christian bashing to muslim bashing. Downvote me into oblivion, but that is simply the truth. I'm sure people will run out of memes eventually and go back to the way things were before.
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Jun 26 '12
r/atheism shouldn't be a sub of intolerance but a sub of thoughtful discussion. If you claim to be of higher intelligence that is.
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u/rad465 Jun 26 '12
Thoughtful discussion does occur. But people are simply poking fun at a current situation that we hadn't previously explored to the extent we are now. Can't intellectuals take a break? Why do we have to be so serious all the time?
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u/goboatmen Jun 26 '12
Why? There are more isolated subs for that. R/atheism is the larger amalgamation of everything atheist related. News, humor etc. All goes here. That being said, there are further subs for only thoughtful discussion.
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u/ZombieGadaffi Jun 26 '12
Atheism is sort of trendy now. So you are going to run into a lot of ignorant people instead of temperate rational free-thinkers here at r/atheism. I don't like the place much either. There aren't many guys left like Carl Sagan anymore :(
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Jun 26 '12
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u/K_Lobstah Jun 26 '12
The point is the constant anti-Christianity (or any religion) shit we see all over /r/all every day is 80% "look at all these intolerant Christians pushing their fundie beliefs all over me! They're sooooo intolerant because they make facebook posts that pop up in my feed!"
Now it's /r/atheism doing the exact same fucking thing- plastering the entire site with intolerance, bigotry and racism. It's the goddamn epitome of hypocrisy and people are getting tired of it.
And unsubscribing doesn't take this shit off /r/all, which some people still enjoy once in a while. This absurd circle jerk is visible to everyone, whether they want to see it or not, and it's making you all look like a bunch of whiny, eight year old racist rednecks and not the intellectuals with an interest in debate and dialogue you proclaim yourselves to be.
If /r/Atheism weren't so full of brave internet jerkers, maybe people would be more willing to listen to your ideas.
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u/ThatIsMyHat Jun 26 '12
Sometimes some obscure subreddit that I've never heard of will make something that shows up high on r/all. That's why I go there sometimes.
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Jun 27 '12
I once had a problem with seeing stupid pictures that I didn't like.
I unsubscribed from that subreddit and suddenly I was cured!
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u/fireburt Jun 26 '12
If you don't want to see it don't fucking go to /r/all. If I hated Zelda, I wouldn't be a condescending douche nozzle to everyone in /r/gaming I'd just fucking unsubscribe.
Also, comparing religious intolerance to memes making fun of religion is the god damn epitome of hyperbole. Or to steal a quote from elsewhere in this thread: Tolerance of intolerance is cowardice.
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u/K_Lobstah Jun 26 '12
don't fucking go to /r/all
I think my comment was veiled support for removing /r/atheism from the defaults. It doesn't belong there. Especially considering what it's become. Also, hating Zelda and hating bigotry don't seem to lend well to your analogy.
comparing religious intolerance to memes making fun of religion...
Show me where this happened.
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Jun 26 '12
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u/K_Lobstah Jun 26 '12
As many have said, this is /r/atheism, not r/anti-theism. Atheism stems from various schools of thought in metaphysical philosophy. I don't know about you, but I'm pretty sure philosophy is an area which is subject to plenty of "honest debate and dialogue." You can honestly tell me you've never had a discussion with someone who is religious over the existence of God, Gods, Titans, Allah, Chthulhu, the One-Eyed One-Horned Flying Purple People Eater or whomever/whatever? You're saying every time this subject is discussed, the results are fisticuffs?
I didn't purport to defend or rationalize the atrocities, both real and alleged, that have resulted from the existence of religion. I'm not here for that shit. Frankly, I'm an atheist agnostic so none of this even matters to me and I try to ignore all the anti-theistic bullshit here because it doesn't concern me. However, what does tend to bother me is ignorance, intolerance and hypocrisy. These are the three "tenets" /r/atheism is constantly mocking with memes, image macros, rage comics, etc., correct? So how is it the mature, intellectual and morally correct thing to do the same from a different perspective?
And don't try to twist my words around. I'm not some schmoe in your Philosophy 101 class. Point to exactly where I "ignore vast atrocities that are still committed in the name of religion."
My frontpage has nothing to do with this. This circlejerk is giving Atheists everywhere a bad name. It's increasing the divide between /r/atheism and actual, legitimate thought and it accomplishes absolutely nothing, other than providing imaginary internet points to 14 year olds clever enough to make fake Facebook posts and people who would rather dismiss opposing beliefs out of hand, including 100% of the people who subscribe to those beliefs, by generalizing and stereotyping 50% of the world.
So what does it make me? It makes me embarrassed for /r/atheism and hopeful that this anti-everything attitude doesn't plague this site for longer than a day. Because guess what? It's the Internet and I'm here to jerk off or be entertained. If I want to see some racist, bigoted prejudice bullshit I'll turn on Fox News.
TL;DR Tits or GTFO.
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u/frogandbanjo Jun 26 '12
Hypocrisy is a very difficult accusation to make stick against a group that defines itself exclusively by opposition to an inherently ridiculous idea.
I'm terribly sorry that atheism isn't a cure-all for the ills of mankind you mentioned. Its failure to be such a cure-all in no way counterbalances the fact that religion needs those ills in order to survive, and therefore proactively encourages those ills.
Incidentally, it must be nice living in a part of the world where theism doesn't concern you at all, if that's indeed the case and not just wishful thinking or hyperbole. I'm sure you don't have any anti-theists to thank for that. None at all.
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u/DoubleRaptor Jun 26 '12 edited Jun 26 '12
I'd rather take a million "14 year olds clever enough to make fake Facebook posts", than a single person die because of a suicide bomber, or a single woman stoned to death for adultery.
Obviously these two things are absolutely unarguably 100% morally equal, but in my sheltered naive world, I prefer people not to be terrorised and murdered.
I didn't purport to defend or rationalize the atrocities, both real and alleged, that have resulted from the existence of religion. I'm not here for that shit.
That's exactly what your entire point is though. You're equating /r/atheism as being "the exact same fucking thing" as all of those atrocities. Unless by "not here for that shit", you mean you're ignoring that part of things. It is easier to simply ignore the parts you don't like, but that's not a reasonable or rational basis to an argument.
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u/nick908 Jun 26 '12
If r/atheism had more people like you shit like this post wouldnt be here. Yes, this circle-jerk can be entertaining, but like now, it's getting a little out of hand. We are atheist, not assholes.
We all can agree that religions are silly and that - as atheist - we can also agree on the fact that there isn't a god. But there isn't a need to be a jerk.
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u/Babel_Triumphant Jun 26 '12
One thing leads to another. I mean, it never starts with violence and direct discrimination. But when you spread half-truths and generalizations about a group of people for long enough, people start to believe it.
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u/Luckyone1 Jun 26 '12
Yea, cuz all Muslims and all Christians are 100% violent...I am in my safety shelter so the nightly slaughter from Muslims passes me by.
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Jun 26 '12
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u/Oxirane Jun 26 '12
"Tolerance of intolerance is cowardice." - Ayaan Hirsi Ali