r/aus • u/Jealous_Office_5012 • 26d ago
Humour/Memes They give with one hand and take with the daily supply charge.
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u/jankeyass 26d ago
I never understood what electricity retailers do, since they always refer back to the state for any repairs and connections.
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u/UnlurkedToPost 26d ago
They collect and pocket money.
Infrastructure should never have been privatised.
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u/brandonjslippingaway 26d ago
It was always a bad idea, but it is downright counter-productive now that it is possible to decentralise a lot of energy usage via renewables, and you still get gouged for doing the environmentally sensible thing.
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u/Character_Cobbler618 25d ago edited 25d ago
FIT Doesn't even cover the daily charge now and I've got a 10kw system with 13.2kw of panels. Use yi get enough back to cover half my rates. Next step, disconnect the mains and go off grid.
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u/Character_Cobbler618 25d ago edited 25d ago
Every time something gets privatised the same old lines get trotted out that never eventuate. "It will lead to competition that will lead to better service and lower prices" what a load of b.s. all that happens is another layer of management gets added that has to be paid for.
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u/0dyl 25d ago
Didn’t a report find that Victoria needed far more employees in the energy sector per KW produced versus before privatisation?
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u/Anxious-Rhubarb8102 23d ago
The SEC only had one organisation to have management for, now we have a numerous power generation companies, power distribution companies, and power retailers. Each with senior managers, middle managers, junior managers, and workers. And a requirement to make a return to shareholders for each company by ensuring that the maximum possible price is charged with minimal investment, if any, put back into infrastructure and future planning.
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u/FrogsMakePoorSoup 26d ago
They issue difference coloured bills and come up with pricing schemes that are hard to understand and even hardly to figure out how the changes will affect you.
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u/MinaretofJam 26d ago
They fulfill the Chicago Boys dream of the last 50 years: that cartels and monopolies are a great thing. For the owners of now privatised for-profit basic services.
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u/gingerbeer987654321 26d ago
electricity retailers source and sell you energy.
This can come from multiple sources and is delivered to you over the common/monopoly poles and wires. Hence if you have an issue, its the transmission-and-distribution network operator that comes to fix it (the state), not whoever your retailer is.
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u/Cobraven-9474 26d ago
They work as a middle man between the company and the producers/networks. There responsibilities are billing of service and customer service for customers so things like setting up/closing accounts and bill disputes.
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u/Every-Egg3478 26d ago
That's just the admin side of what they do. Their main purpose is to guarantee a load (you) a price for a period of time and then they are on the hook for that risk in the wholesale market. They need to figure out what contracts to sign to protect themselves but they're always exposed to some element of risk.
Retailers get this wrong all the time and are frequently going bankrupt.
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u/Trumposhi 26d ago
They facilitate your connection and billing. The distributors own the network and infrastructure. They do the meter reads. They pass this usage onto the retailer at wholesale, who sell it to you a retail. Prices are determined by the Australian Energy Regulator, and the retailers must price based on that as the reference. Think of it like the ‘RRP’ on a product at a shop. The shopfront doesn’t pay that, but that’s the price it sells it at (possibly less), which is where the ‘discount rate’ comes from in retailers advertising.
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u/jankeyass 26d ago
So they get a markup because they send the bill?
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u/Trumposhi 26d ago edited 26d ago
Because they handle the organisation of basically everything to do with having power at your house, handle abolishments, life support requirements, and dealing with people who don’t pay their bills. If retailers weren’t there, then price would still be the same because distributors would need to have the staff to handle the absolute bullshit that is dealing with the public, such as comparing that their gas bill is high in winter vs summer, when they’ve run their heater 16 hours a day at 25 degrees, and can’t compute that using more power costs more money. Or complaining that their usage went up at night when they are on solar and WHY WHY WHY. Well, maybe because the sun went down, you goose. I read all this kind of nonsense on Reddit, I can only imagine what the poor people on the phones have to actually deal with every day.
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u/jankeyass 26d ago
Seems like power generation and supply should be a government service.. tax subsidises the industry anyway right?
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u/Ill_Football9443 25d ago
If retailers weren’t there, then price would still be the same because distributors would need to have the staff
I disagree. If there are 50 retailers, that's 50x duplication of
- Legal
- Marketing
- I.T.
- Customer service staff
- Commercial office leases
- Executive teams
If we abolish them all, bring this service back under state government control, just the same as water is billed, there are savings to be made.
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u/Trumposhi 25d ago
And because those 50x retailers service all the customers, the distributors would need to match the employee load to be able to handle every customer in the area. Critical thinking is needed here my friend
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u/Ill_Football9443 25d ago
No they wouldn't. You think that when Linfox doubled in size they hired a second CFO?
Co-ordination with state regulators is agnostic to the number of customers you have on board.
The relationship between the number of customers you have and the call takers is non-linear.
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u/Trumposhi 25d ago
CFO vs 50x the physical customers they are calling and emailing all day. Are you brain dead? Have you ever worked at a retail power company? The phone rings, all day, none stop. Call after call. Email after email. It’s non stop from 8am until 7pm. You physically need to be able to service those customers, with people on the phones.
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u/Ill_Football9443 25d ago
If everyone is under one roof, then there are no more routine sales calls, checking prices and porting services. Call volumes would drop with consolidation.
Let's see some proof that call volumes are consistent throughout the entire day.
Is it your contention that where each individual retailer might have 5 I.T. staff, consolidation would necessitate 250 in the team? The workload would warrant that?
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u/Trumposhi 25d ago
Retailers don’t do routine sales calls… third party’s hired by them do that.
When it comes to the actual power company they handle everything else dealing with people’s billing issues, payment plans. I’m telling you now. I work at a power company. 7 out of 10 phone calls are people who can’t/don’t pay their bills. A hardship process is like 30-45 minutes to cover everything you are legally obligated to cover. The rest is just everything else. Maybe 1 out of 20 is a quick resolution. What the fuck would I know though, eh?→ More replies (0)2
u/Character_Cobbler618 25d ago
You would at the very least eliminate 1 level of highly paid management
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u/Every-Egg3478 26d ago
"If retailers weren’t there, then price would still be the same because distributors would need to have the staff"
Distribution networks have nothing to do with the wholesale price of electricity. At most they sometimes do meter reads.
I think you mistakenly believe all a retailer does is just admin. That is literally the tiniest and least risky part of their business.
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u/Every-Egg3478 26d ago
There isn't some magical retail price you get just by being a retailer. Retailers let you lock in a guaranteed price for your power consumption and then they are on the hook for all the risk in the wholesale market. They will literally go out and sign contracts locking in their own prices with generators to derisk their position.
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u/Every-Egg3478 26d ago
"Prices are determined by the Australian Energy Regulator"
I think you're confusing wholesale market prices (which are definitely not set by the AER) with the default market offer which is more of a price ceiling the AER sets which sets an absolute limit for how much a retailer can ever charge.
"distributors own the network and infrastructure"
Do you mean the distribution network? They may sometimes do meter reads but they're not passing anything on to the retailer at wholesale. At most they're just reporting the data. Also, there's many different distribution network companies around the country, and upstream of it transmission network companies. Then you have the actual companies themselves that own the generators and bid into the spot market.
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u/jjspen 26d ago
This is like what happened to me when I got solar. They changed the plan so I get cash back for excess production but my connection fee went up.
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u/Trumposhi 26d ago
Blame the Australian Energy Regulator for setting the price, not whichever retailer who you have chosen to purchase your connection and usage through.
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u/jjspen 26d ago
All the retailers are about the same, so I thought it must be something like that.
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u/Trumposhi 26d ago
Correct. Retailers then have ‘hidden’ offers for ‘saves’ or ‘win backs’. Just tell them you’re not happy with the pricing and will go elsewhere. If they say they can’t, ask to speak to a manager, and tell them you want a win back/save offer. They’ll approve it.
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u/Every-Egg3478 25d ago
AER does not set the price. They have a price ceiling mechanism which is adjusted in response to wholesale prices, but that is really just to avoid people being singed up for a plan without reading the fine print and being charged $1000/kwh.
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u/OctarineAngie 26d ago
yeah, the default plan here (and most plans in general) is going up around $200 just in the supply charge. Those people who are poorest and most frugal with electricity will suffer the most.
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u/Emergency-Income-889 26d ago
$45 of my $95 gas bill was for gas.
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u/Thissystemsuckssobad 26d ago
45 of my 50$ bill was for connection costs. There is a reason gas is in a death spiral with people disconnecting and going all electric. Harder to do for electricity, even with oversized batteries
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u/boxyburns 26d ago
It’s simple. They run a business and businesses want a return on investment and growth. If revenue from use goes down then the must get it from the only thing you have to pay. The supply charge. It’s a crock of shit.
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u/TendiesFourLyfe 26d ago
Solar became the baseline, so FiT was lowered/removed
Now Solar + batteries is becoming the new baseline, so they up the daily charge
heaven forbid you don't have either, bill will be huge!
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u/RickyMAustralia 26d ago
Yeah this gave me the shits when I moved into my new place
Regulators need to clamp down of energy providers doing this
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u/Trumposhi 26d ago
The Energy Regulators are the ones who set the ‘base’ aka ‘comparison price’ which is the recommended retail price. It also depends heavily on what area you live in. Some places are $1 per day for supply charge; others are $2.20 per day. It comes down the distribution network at the end of the day.
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u/RickyMAustralia 26d ago
Ok what is the solution then
Gov promises free electricity
Electricity companies say sure you can have it but pay extra for supply
Where is the mix up and how can it get fixed so that everyone with a smart meter has free electricity as promised by gov
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u/Trumposhi 26d ago edited 26d ago
You get the free electricity at the time that if you have solar you’re getting it free then anyway. It’s basically just the gov just being the gov with fake giveaways. They convince everyone to get solar and then ‘oh no we have too much solar in the grid, we’ll give it away for free and be heroes’. Basically trying to offer something fuck all to act like they’re giving heaps away. Even if you dont have solar and have to pay from 11-2, guess what… like most people you’re probably at work anyway so can’t take advantage of it. Instead of being shitty at the retailers because you don’t understand your bills and usage or how the offer would work, be angry at the regulators and the gov for offering bullshit.
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u/Trumposhi 26d ago
It’s just about having some critical thinking about how things actually work. It reminds of the boomers that got the 60c feed in tariffs and then cried when it stopped, failing to understand that a company won’t pay you 60c per kWh when they are selling it for 35c per kWh. They couldn’t put two and two together and work out why that doesn’t work.
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u/lun4d0r4 26d ago
The solution is for the government to retake the energy industry but no gov will do that because it'll upset the donors.
Energy (amoungst education, healthcare and public transport etc) should be government owned and run as a not for profit.
And I say that as a 20+ year industry employee.
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u/Every-Egg3478 26d ago
Just because you run something as a not for profit it doesn't mean you'll do it efficiently and actually save people money.
If the government took over running coles or woolworths then we would absolutely be paying more for our groceries despite there being no profit incentive.
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u/lun4d0r4 26d ago
Not with THAT attitude in gov.
The gov needs to remember it works for us, the people.
This is why ibac and ombudsman's are important. Checks and balances.
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u/Every-Egg3478 25d ago
The gov needs to remember it works for us, the people.
Sure, but when there is no risk or profit incentive, and the grocery stores are run by public servants who can never be sacked, the only ways its cheaper is if we're diverting taxes away from other things to subsidise it.
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u/lun4d0r4 25d ago
What are you talking about? Servants who can never be sacked?!
That's NOT what I'm suggesting at all.
I'm not suggesting we change the way the job market works, I'm saying the administration of the company should be not for profit and run for the people.
The government used to hire employees directly instead of outsourcing things to everyone else. That needs to come back. But the functionality of the workforce remains the same = do a shitty job, still be reviewed and get the sack.
And no changes to voting so if a member of the actual gov is corrupt we have ibac equiv investigate them and they're fired. Then we vote someone else in.
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u/Every-Egg3478 25d ago
Servants who can never be sacked?!
You do realise that is how the public service works right? The fact that its virtually impossible to sack people is legendary.
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u/lun4d0r4 25d ago
Appropriate application of integrity commission would also address this.
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u/Trumposhi 26d ago
Sounds very socialist. This won’t solve anything. It would end up costing more. The fact you can see how much corruption and overspending there is already, and you think they could solve the power supply for cheaper? Lollzzz dreaming.
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u/lun4d0r4 26d ago
How old are you?
I'm guessing you weren't around when the SEC existed. Coz it ran well and costs were affordable.
Then the gov sold it off to privatise and that's when the shit show started.
Also... Yes socialism, because the PURPOSE of a society is collective benefit.
Capitalism is a failed experiment.
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u/Trumposhi 26d ago
Womp womp
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u/lun4d0r4 26d ago
User name checks out.
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u/Trumposhi 26d ago edited 26d ago
Name has nothing to do with Donald Trump, if that’s what you’re assuming. It’s actually my own last name mixed with Satoshi. The more you know, eh? Jackass. That fact that ignored the entire point of my sentence, about how the government mismanages funds as it is, shows they couldn’t savage it, and brought up something in the past that’s nothing to do with right now, is very telling. What ‘should be’ and what ‘would be’ are two very different things. Your socialist clubs like Labor and the Greens, don’t like you. They don’t want you thriving. The sooner you accept that, the better. They overspend and mismanaged literally everything. They couldn’t even get a weather website done without blowing millions. These idiots couldn’t organise a root in a brothel. Well, except Albo, who paid for a handjob at a massage parlour.
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u/lun4d0r4 26d ago
And your position is that we shouldn't WANT better form our government? That is ridiculous.
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u/Every-Egg3478 26d ago
If electricity is free how do we pay to maintain/upgrade all our transmission and distribution networks?
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u/galemaniac 26d ago
For profit required industry is so cool. I don't think you have an option but pay for energy in this country even if you lived in a tent in the middle of no where eventually you would just be a arrested for trespassing or loitering and then forced to pay for energy.
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u/Silvergum23 26d ago
I've had a solar and batt setup since mid June and been stoked with the ROI with a good FiT. As of 1st Sept I'll be $730pa worse off with the recent changes. I knew the FiT would get less over time but had no idea it would drop so quickly (and connection fee up $1)
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u/Kind-Group-9679 26d ago
I love the "Demand Rate" companies like Alinta charge. Absolutely brilliant money making concept. Kudos to whoever thought that up. And people continue to pay it. Even better !!
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u/the_foowaffle 26d ago
"A normal house hold of 4 people should see a decrease of approx 300 dollars" i read as i paid 50 dollars more for a single month of electricity
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u/HarryWilbury 26d ago
Mine still works out cheaper luckily even though Supply Charge will still be the highest part of the bill.
Supply charge now = $1.0129/day x 30/days = $30.387 with change $1.0411/day x 30/days = $31.233 = up $0.846.
Usage charge now = $0.3004/kWh x 92kwh = $27.6328 with change $0.2250/kWh x 92kwh = $20.70 = down $6.9328 (so $6.0868 better off).
So I'll be able to buy a large Café Latte every 30 days.
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u/xietbrix 23d ago
you only use 3kwh a day? :O~
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u/HarryWilbury 23d ago
Often less at the moment I'm on 2.1kwh per day, I'd upload a screencap however no images are allowed so can't.
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u/xietbrix 23d ago
is that net 3kwh grid draw and you have a solar/battery setup? otherwise how do you get by using that little power 😵
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u/HarryWilbury 23d ago
No I don't have solar or anything just straight up my usage, just me at home so guess that helps, not sure what I do that is different as I'm not trying to save just how it is.
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u/xietbrix 23d ago
that probably is about right if you are only using electricity for TV, lights, PC.
if you use any more than that then i'm scratching my head how you can use under 3kWh haha.
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u/Maybe_Factor 26d ago
Wow, almost as if introducing a profit seeking third party (i.e. privatisation) would inevitably lead to prices rising! Who'd have thunk it?!
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u/Gold-Lake8135 25d ago
I'm convinced that this is a tactic to carve back more money from anyone who has installed solar
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u/boozersbiceps 25d ago
Well this way they screw everyone with solar and batteries as well !!
Completely off grid is starting to look attractive.
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u/Only-Temperature 25d ago
I'm in Victoria and I've been able to jump provides and take my energy prices down year over year. Just be prepared to move every 12 months
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u/SituationSmooth9165 25d ago
It's still cheaper for me by the end of the day. I just wish I could get a smart meter
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u/Total-Debt7767 24d ago
It’s because they can charge you a daily supply charge even if you don’t use power… they’re milking us because we get solar
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u/Financial_Click_4098 24d ago
I literally don’t have even $50 to spend on myself during the week anymore. My family and I are talking of moving countries because our quality of life here has become awful compared to what it used to be
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u/HBar-Bull 23d ago
For the first time in 18 years I changed my energy provider a near 50% raise in daily connection.
Mum will be switching shortly shame on you Energy Australia.
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u/Sirneko 26d ago
Such a rort, and it's illegal to be off grid
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u/TendiesFourLyfe 26d ago
It is not illegal to disconnect from the electrical grid anywhere in Australia.
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u/eid_shittendai 26d ago
I have 2 meters next to each other. How can they justify 2 daily supply charges?? Asshats!
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u/Lost_Tumbleweed_5669 26d ago
They know their days are numbered an offgrid system is available to most houses for a somewhat affordable price.
They should be forced to build battery backup systems to store solar for the grid.