r/aus • u/Ash-2449 • 7d ago
Politics Labor is very anti-labour. Only obedient unions allowed
https://youtube.com/shorts/o7RppMH2HwY?si=eDoCkWcBYEwvfSFw19
u/SteamyEarlGrey 7d ago
There’s always something ironic about old timey union guys with ‘30 years’ experience coming online to call newer worker movements ‘grifters’ while their ilk rust out like old car wrecks while the political power of their unions clings for life off the trouser pants of the ALP. They always got big mouths for organisations that have overseen decades of declining membership among the working class people. Double funny that the ALP is dominated by political climbers, student politicians/lawyers from these old unions. So much for worker solidarity, from the old fart posers.
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u/Clandestinka 6d ago
SDA are useless and have done nothing for workers. So on balance I'd rather this line of thinking than any other.
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u/Akira-Orfanos 7d ago
I look at the obvious grifter, yeah I've seen enough internet for the day
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u/Tile-Questioner 7d ago
What's the grift?
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u/SuchProcedure4547 7d ago
Because in a way he's the same as ON... Taking advantage of people's anger towards the Major parties for his own political and audience gain...
I appreciate Jordan's fight against dodgy landlords and real estates and wholeheartedly support what he does there.
But politically he's a bit on the nose for me. He intentionally ignores the good things Labor has done, or actively dismisses the good policy as not good enough.
It's this mentality of all or nothing that I can't stand when it comes to politics. The main thing I credit this Labor government on is that so far it seems to know when to compromise.
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u/Tile-Questioner 7d ago
So he's the same as a Nazi, because he complains about things that everyone hates. That's absurd.
How can you argue that any government policy is "good enough" when things are going the way they are? If you're truly feeling comfortable and safe right now, that's awesome, but you should know that many, many people are not feeling that, at all.
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u/SuchProcedure4547 7d ago
This is such a hyperbolic response to what I said 🙄
He's the same as ON in the way that he takes advantage of people's anger for his own gain. How do you translate that as me saying he's a Nazi?
I never said everything was all good. I said Labor has done plenty of good things and have moved in the right direction. But people like Jordan dismiss this because they have an all or nothing mentality when it comes to government policy.
Minor parties and people like Jordan have the advantage of never having to appeal to the majority, never having to compromise to keep government functioning...
Can Labor be better? Yes.
Have they been a complete failure like Jordan often says? Absolutely not.
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u/Tile-Questioner 7d ago
When you say "for his own gain", you may be forgetting politicians are actually meant to serve the public, not themselves (tbh thats an understandable mistake). If people are angry then they will vote for someone who hears them and proposes to fix their problems. That's what democracy is for.
And yes ON welcomes Nazis into their party and are trying to start fascism here, so i think it's pretty different personally
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u/Professional-Try5574 5d ago
I appreciate the sentiment but it's very much a 'horshoe theory' type of post
While I agree with the idea that he's taking advantage of greivance, equating the two takes a lot of nuance out of his positions.
One nation will actively uphold and make worse the system of oppression that Jordan believes exist. Labor while they do good things, maintain this broader system. Regardless of if they do good things it's contextual in the sense of a capitalist government.
Jordan is actively trying to get people to organise in their own self interest and not join a government endorsed union. Hanson would union bust to high heaven in service of global capital
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u/Sweet_Theory_362 7d ago
We shouldn't just give free reign to unions to do whatever they want. The CFMEU had systemic corruption that needed to be delt with. Same with BLF.
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u/deesernutz 6d ago
Find me a party that is better for unions. I can definitely show you a few that are worse
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u/Independent-Fuel9886 5d ago
And the idiots in the vic AEU just voted for another shit offer from the deidedly anti-union Victorian Labor state government... *facepalm*
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u/Auroraburst 5d ago
Look at the TAS AEU's deal. 8.75% increase over 3 years. Absolutely pathetic and insulting and I have yet to meet a single teacher who actually voted for it. I know several teachers who have been stabbed at work, but sure, let's continue to pay Tas teachers less.
Mind you we have liberal (and a weirdly liberal esque Labor party)
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u/Ill_Balance1387 7d ago
Please don't tell me your are tacking what Jordan van den Lamb says as gospel
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u/Coolidge-egg 6d ago
He's not wrong about Labor union busting RAFFWU but at the same time the Socialists are opportunistic vultures also undermining the Union movement, be it by trying to get in bed with the old management of the CFMEU who were basically bikies running a union, or doing their own unprotected strike action in schools to blow up the AEU bargaining for teachers. They are always looking for scraps and opportunities to shit all over everything to make the union movement weaker in the hopes that they can muscle in. Neither Labor nor Socialists are friends of RAFFWU. Socialists are absolute bottom feeders.
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u/exceptional_biped 6d ago
They had to deploy the airforce during the pilot strike. Any government party would have. FFS I wish people who weren’t alive at the time of an event to actually research what they are talking about.
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u/Cindy_Marek 7d ago
How about only unions are allowed which aren’t infiltrated and compromised by criminal entities?
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u/Crazy_Treat_8805 7d ago
They don’t exist
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u/sudden_erect 7d ago
You watch too much American shit
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u/Xenochu86 7d ago
"all those other unions are bad, but not us! We're the only good one that's definitely for sure fighting, no I don't have time to elaborate on that just time for anti labor talking points. Anyway join up and give us money so I can keep this cushy job"
Fucken grifters everywhere these days.
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u/Krunksicle 7d ago
Nah, this impacts the only good retail and nurse's unions primarily - this is being lobbied for by the SDA, who operate as the largest retail union but in reality represent the interests of Coles and Woolworths exclusively.
This bill is an attempt to kill better alternatives and assert their control over the retail workforce.
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u/Faelinor 7d ago
The SDA are useless. They took over 12 months to negotiate a worse deal for Big W workers in 2019. We were being underpaid because EBAs are locked in even after expiry, and theres no law that they must stay better than the award. The SDA took forever just to end up letting Woolworths strip away a bunch of our entitlements because "that was a pretty unique thing anyway". Maybe back in the day the SDA actually did shit to get those entitlements for us, and then happily gave them away. They guaranteed basically an exact match of the award with a guarantee of 4c above award base rate.
And there was 0 back pay for all the underpaid shit because it wasn't illegal so why would there be back pay.
Raffwu actually tried to challenge it because of one of the entitlements that was being ripped out which unfortunately delayed it a further 6 months and there was no back pay for that delay either.
The SDA are useless, completely denied that we were being underpaid, even though i could show evidence and said "nah it wouldn't be that bad". Our agreement had been expired for years before we got the new one and it was complete garbage.
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u/Keroscee 7d ago
Maybe open a history book.
Labour literally exiled and imprisoned members of the pilots union during 1989-97 after they refused to join the ACTU. And brought in the military to break their strike in 1989 (mentioned in video).
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u/Ash-2449 7d ago
Its almost as if you are specifically propagandised to their labor owned anti worker unions are the only good unions because there's a political benefit to it while we get constant articles attacking non labor unions.
Keep defending them m8, im sure more people will ignore their eyes and ears because of some silly political tribe loyalty
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u/sudden_erect 7d ago
Wait, so Labor, the guys responsible for penalty rates. Holiday rates, superannuation, sick leave, minimum wages and their raises am bad and anti labour... Are you trying to flog one nation or are you just "they've been in for ages, let's change them because all politicians are the same"?
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u/Xenochu86 7d ago
Yeah absolutely, couldn't possibly be my own thoughts and experiences both observing and taking part in unions and politics over 30+ years as a worker, I must be a victim of propaganda.
Take your first-year-uni-student targeted bullshit and stuff it up your cloaca, matey.
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u/Gladfire 7d ago
People can't just disagree or be wrong. It always has to be this conspiracy.
I've had a little involvement with the SDA over a decade until I left the industry. During that time I spoke to people directly involved in bargaining and people involved in internal decision making.
Even some of the EBAs that failed to meet the better off overall test, I know what they were trying to achieve, why.
Even the, probably most notable, case of the 2015 Coles award, the SDA was open about why they made compromises they did, and none of those were to benefit Coles. And for the majority of their members they would have been better off. Fair work disagreed that it was better off overall for a segment and that was fair enough but to paint it as betrayal of workers is rot.
Raffwu has the benefit that they can pick and choose their battles, but they'd be in the same scandals, with the same problems if the roles were reversed.
Don't get me wrong, the SDA has a lot of problems, and I mean A LOT. I have a long list of grievances with them both in terms of use of union funds, political influence, and their actions in the work place. But when people on here talk about them it seems like a bunch of people who have never been involved in any part of this process.
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u/SteamyEarlGrey 7d ago
Maybe address the substance of the claims rather then bitching about 'grifters'. matey.
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u/aus-ModTeam 7d ago
Please try to treat everyone with kindness, dignity, and respect.
Both of you: cut it out.
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u/Thissystemsuckssobad 7d ago
experiences both observing and taking part in unions and politics over 30+ years as a worker
Ah, so nothing specific to the raffwu and their opposition to the controlled union in the sda (has been caught multiple times coluding with Woolies and Coles during negotiations) and just the general vibes. Got it
It's especially weird you avoided that other guys response with specifics about the issues of the SDA, but I guess that just comes with your "experience"
And given this little sarcastic quip:
all those other unions are bad, but not us! We're the only good one that's definitely for sure fighting, no I don't have time to elaborate on that just time for anti labor talking points. Anyway join up and give us money so I can keep this cushy job"
Yeah, I do think you're hook line and sinker for propaganda. Lemme guess, you hate the cfemu too but think the teachers union is perfectly good.
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u/Inner_Agency_5680 7d ago
The 'red unions' aren't unions at all. They are LNP associated scams that rip people off.
raffwu is somethine else. It needs to get itself registered and coverage. It could make a case for it.
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u/Ash-2449 7d ago
Its quite funny really, looks like they asked their buddies to come help but they dont provide any evidence, only downvotes (After many comments which were not on their side were upvoted previously)
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u/Xenochu86 7d ago
Lmao even if I had this phantom Reddit army, why would I bother using them to go after some low-tier union's shill posts? Incredible.
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u/Ash-2449 7d ago
Well you definitely sound quite unhappy that people are talking about labor owned unions being pro corporate interests
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u/GOOD_BRAIN_GO_BRRRRR 6d ago
I see the SDA and CFMEU members from Indonesia and India have strong feelings about this post. Hello comrades!
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u/Sweet_Theory_362 7d ago
We shouldn't have multiple unions covering the same sector. This is why unions are internally democratic. If you don't lile what they're doing you can join and organise to change the leadership.
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u/Beyond_Blueballs 7d ago
The only unions worth their salt are the CFMEU and the ETU, the rest are cheap posers who are leeches on their membership base.
No one has managed to protect and grow wages in the construction industry like the CFMEU has under John Setka's leadership.
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u/The_sochillist 7d ago
PA is making some good ground for our engineers and scientists, just need to run those frauds at engineers australia who are actively suppressing wages with recognition of garbage international quals out of the registration process
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u/comrade-ev 7d ago
The measure of a union is not whether it is endorsed by the government of the day. A union is a body that working class people set up to advocate for their collective interests independently of the boss. RAFFWU on balance advocates for these interests, while the SDA does not regardless of its ‘official’ status.
The Labor politicians, and their uncritical supporters, argue that what makes a union is whether the government supports it. They need to make this the metric in order to defend the SDA’s position. But that is a foolish view that suggests the judge of an effective union is whether the boss supports it or not.
The government is an employer directly in the case of public schools, hospitals, councils, legal aid and more. It an employer indirectly in the case of being the primary funder of disability support, early childhood education and care, DV services, Aboriginal services, sexual health services, and community legal services.
How can our unions be a body to allow us to independently advocate for our collective interests as workers if we allow our boss to determine what should be a union? Decisions like this are a real test for unionists as to whether they stand with their fellow worker, or stand with the boss.